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Garibaldi invented Italians in the mid 19th century. As a joke.
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Aug 11, 2023 22:51
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Owl at Home posted:"I can't believe the Romans built their plumbing with poisonous lead," I think, shaking my head and tutting in disapproval while typing on my plastic keyboard and sitting on my plastic chair, sipping micro-plastic infused water from a plastic cup I bet some majority of people reading this grew up in houses with lead paint on the walls, was the first thing I thought of
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Aug 12, 2023 12:17
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FreudianSlippers posted:Garibaldi invented Italians in the mid 19th century. when will folks learn that practical jokes just aren't worth the risk of them going horribly wrong?
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Aug 14, 2023 02:15
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the yeti posted:I bet some majority of people reading this grew up in houses with lead paint on the walls, was the first thing I thought of
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Aug 14, 2023 02:24
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Scarodactyl posted:This may be one factor in our alarmingly high (and rising) modern allergy rates and severity. The idea is that the immune system evolved in an environment where people were full of parasites that locally suppressed the immune system. With that counterweight gone it has a tendency to go wild. It's unclear if this is true but it's an interesting idea. That’s more modem medicine keeping everyone alive. All the allegations existed, just most people died.
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Aug 14, 2023 02:47
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sbaldrick posted:That’s more modem medicine keeping everyone alive. All the allegations existed, just most people died.
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Aug 14, 2023 04:56
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Gianluca Buonanno posted:Garibaldi invented Italians in the mid 19th century. Groda fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 06:53
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Mr. Nice! posted:I think people probably still had a strong local identity even when they were under Roman authority. After Rome fell, they just were themselves still. Even today a lot of Italians see themselves as different than other Italians depending on where in the boot they're from. On a related note, when did maps get good enough that people realized Italy looks like a boot? What's the oldest source that refers to it looking like that?
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Aug 14, 2023 07:56
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Even just now, allergy rates vary pretty wildly by country, and it's not "country where you die from allergies has fewer allergies." China and Turkey, for example, have an absolute fraction as many food allergies as America. And it's probably not just some Asian thing for China because Japan has much closer to the American allergy rate than the Chinese allergy rate. I looked into it when I noticed almost no one seems to have allergies here. I don't think it's just fewer reported unless it's a huge coincidence I saw tons of people with allergies in America and almost none with allergies in China.
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Aug 14, 2023 08:09
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BrainDance posted:Even just now, allergy rates vary pretty wildly by country, and it's not "country where you die from allergies has fewer allergies." the hygiene hypothesis probably explains it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis recent immigrants have fewer cases of allergy, but long time residents get closer to non-immigrant levels of allergies https://link.springer.com/article/10.17269/CJPH.107.5614 RESULTS: The highest prevalence of non-food allergies was found among non-immigrants (29.6%), followed by long-time immigrants (23.9%) and then recent immigrants (14.3%). The odds of non-food allergies were reduced by 60% (OR = 0.40, 95% CI: 0.35, 0.45) among recent immigrants and 25% (OR = 0.75, 95% CI: 0.70, 0.80) among long-time immigrants, compared with non-immigrants, after adjusting for sex, age, socio-economic status and rurality. CONCLUSION: This study finds a distinctly lower prevalence of non-food allergies among immigrants compared with non-immigrants, with the difference diminishing with longer duration of residence in Canada. The findings highlight the potential of environmental determinants of allergy development that warrant further investigation, and demonstrate the need for multicultural strategies to manage the public health burden of allergic conditions.
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Aug 14, 2023 09:21
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I’d assume you are an immigrant coming from a poor country with even worse medical care than the US and you just simply die from childhood food allergies triggering so perhaps you don’t pass along your inability to live when eating a peanut.
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Aug 14, 2023 15:36
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I imagine susceptibility to getting one of the really horrible food allergies would be selected against, but it's also due to your immune system, and in general evolution favors those with strong immune systems in the last few thousand years.
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Aug 14, 2023 15:54
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Angry Salami posted:On a related note, when did maps get good enough that people realized Italy looks like a boot? What's the oldest source that refers to it looking like that? no idea but id imagine people knew about once they were sailing often. plus they lived there for thousands of years so the general distances and such would have been pretty well understood. the thing with really old maps is often they existed more as subway maps than as accurate representations of landmasses. This is the Peutinger Table, from around 380CE. You can clearly see Italy there, but the point is not to accurately show the land, but show you how to get from one city to the next. If they wanted to I'm sure they could do Italy quite a bit more accurately simply by knowing how long it takes to walk from various towns to each other.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:47
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WoodrowSkillson posted:no idea but id imagine people knew about once they were sailing often. plus they lived there for thousands of years so the general distances and such would have been pretty well understood. It’s not bad but as someone who’s traveled by water all over the west side you can tell a sailor didn’t draw that because the straights of Medina is very narrow and that makes the distance between Italy proper and Sicily look like a river.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:51
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Yeah it’s a walking map lol. Literally a road map.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:52
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Crab Dad posted:It’s not bad but as someone who’s traveled by water all over the west side you can tell a sailor didn’t draw that because the straights of Medina is very narrow and that makes the distance between Italy proper and Sicily look like a river. a map for sailors would likely be the inverse, with landmasses looking very tiny with only ports and harbors listed so you know where the next safe haven is.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:59
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I think people would've figured out the general shape of the Italian peninsula before boots of that shape were popular.WoodrowSkillson posted:a map for sailors would likely be the inverse, with landmasses looking very tiny with only ports and harbors listed so you know where the next safe haven is. Except in those days it was more common for sailors to just hug the coast anyways. There's no real landmarks to work with out at sea to work with a map. Until you have accurate land surveys, it's easier to use non-map navigation to figure out where you are when no coast is in sight. Polynesians may have figured something out, but Europeans didn't have the ball-sense. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 17:00
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WoodrowSkillson posted:a map for sailors would likely be the inverse, with landmasses looking very tiny with only ports and harbors listed so you know where the next safe haven is.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:01
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Crab Dad posted:I’d assume you are an immigrant coming from a poor country with even worse medical care than the US and you just simply die from childhood food allergies triggering so perhaps you don’t pass along your inability to live when eating a peanut. A Chinese friend once suggested dying immediately as a child is why he'd never heard of anyone having a peanut allergy in China. He was sort of joking but also not really.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:02
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Mostly a map of the public highways (with mile markers!), probably based on the itinerary format that Roman travelers usually used to get around. Pic of the entire* long-rear end thing *not quite entire: if you check the left end you will notice Spain and most of Britain are missing in the surviving copy. Conversely if you go all the way to the right end you can see the Ganges mouth at the end of the world, and down at the bottom Insula Taprobane (Sri Lanka).
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Aug 14, 2023 17:05
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think people would've figured out the general shape of the Italian peninsula before boots of that shape were popular. Yeah this is the thing. As far as I can tell heeled boots aren't a thing until stirrups come along.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:07
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah this is the thing. As far as I can tell heeled boots aren't a thing until stirrups come along. yeah boots started to look like italy basically.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:08
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That format is also due to it being a scroll and it’s format is bound by that technology . I would guess the original - which was in stone - would be more rectangular
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Aug 14, 2023 17:09
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WoodrowSkillson posted:a map for sailors would likely be the inverse, with landmasses looking very tiny with only ports and harbors listed so you know where the next safe haven is. The job of “pilot” would have been immensely important at the time as someone who specializes is knowing all the features of specific region so you don’t plow into hidden shoals.
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Aug 14, 2023 18:48
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Crab Dad posted:The job of “pilot” would have been immensely important at the time as someone who specializes is knowing all the features of specific region so you don’t plow into hidden shoals. Yes. The Greco-Roman metaphorical use of the word for pilot/steersman (as metaphor of leadership and direction in general) is the ultimate source of the English word “governor”and by extension govern, government etc. (also of “cybernetic”). Also it even comes up in the Corpus Juris Civilis! Digests 19.2.13.2 posted:Where the master of a ship [magister navis] takes it into a river without a pilot [gubernatore], and, a storm having arisen, he cannot manage the ship and loses it; the owners of the cargo will be entitled to an action on hiring against him. skasion fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 19:14
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Remind's me of Fuller's essays to the effect that world history is basically a history of rule by sea pirates.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:27
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you mean adm. mahans book on it
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Aug 14, 2023 19:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Remind's me of Fuller's essays to the effect that world history is basically a history of rule by sea pirates.
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Aug 14, 2023 20:36
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SlothfulCobra posted:Polynesians may have figured something out, but Europeans didn't have the ball-sense. thread title
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Aug 14, 2023 20:58
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Grand Fromage posted:A Chinese friend once suggested dying immediately as a child is why he'd never heard of anyone having a peanut allergy in China. He was sort of joking but also not really. Hey check your PMs ASAP it's important and time sensitive.
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Aug 16, 2023 18:09
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My understanding is that modern Italy has more diversity of surnames than any other country. Is there some easily identifiable cultural development that explains this? I thought maybe it comes from the abundance of cognomina, but few modern Italian surnames seem to derive directly from any cognomen.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:11
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It might be an artifact of the late unification of Italy and its corresponding linguistic diversity. Are they counting different variants of the same surname separately?
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Aug 17, 2023 17:23
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I don't think they're counting e.g. Montefiore and Montefiori separately.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:32
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't think they're counting e.g. Montefiore and Montefiori separately. I’m sure as hell the Montefiore and Montefiori do.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:06
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I’d heard that of Japan, where the diversity is apparently because of the culture around the peasantry acquiring surnames all at once during modernization at local temples/magistrate’s offices, where a huge chunk would be unique occasionally bordering on somewhat insulting towards the peasant that didn’t know the meaning of what they were given. In Korea in contrast the peasants would often take on the surname of the local noble clan / lie and pretend descent from it, so you got just a small handful of surnames predominating.
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Aug 17, 2023 22:57
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The Japanese clan name proper was an old, old thing that lived in the space between "name" and "Imperial title", and fell off as feudalism bloomed and direct family became more important. Relatedly, it's not quite true that the peasantry got them all at once; there was a subaltern system of unofficial (except for certain purposed like "trademarked" services and village administration) familial pseudo-cognomen that persisted through at least the Shogunate. These, as unofficial things, were very fluid and didn't really survive "was a second son" or "moved away from the bridge" or even "had a few bad business years in a row" before they started to be part of official government records, which probably contributes a lot to the variety. E: The general literacy rate was extremely high for a feudal society, estimates landing from a low of 20% to a high of 70% and varying mostly based on how one defines literacy, as was the social status of peasants in many ways and the financial status of the proto-bourgeoisie~proto-proletarian range, because the primary political question of the high feudal period (mid-1500s to 1868) was which nobles should hold consolidated power and by 1610 there was a winner who secured his position by cracking down on attempts of the lower nobility to build independent power (which would have happened by, well, putting the spurs to the local peasants and artisans.) In particular, by around 1600, the local chivalry were required to either report for fulltime military duty and leave administration to the upper peasantry or become déclassé. So lots of the peasantry would have known what their names meant, and when picking cognomens/deciding whether to keep the cognomen when it got recognized gone for a unique-but-accurate or even literary one. I'm not aware of many directly insulting names in the Dutch or German Jewish senses, but there was/still is a problem of particular names and backgrounds being associated with the former untouchable caste and discriminated against. Less "Taro Smellsfunny", more "Taro Bacon" or "Taro Kellogg" and *whispers in the back of office or to a niece about their boyfriend* don't you know what those people used to do?! Mandoric fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 23:27
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This is probably part of it 
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Aug 18, 2023 01:41
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euphronius posted:This is probably part of it tag you'reself. im Occitan (Provencal)
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Aug 18, 2023 05:49
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I knew there was a decent number of albanian diaspora in italy from the 1400s but I didn't know the language persisted so heavily hundreds of years later
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Aug 18, 2023 05:51
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With a situation like that, I wouldn't be surprised if diaspora communities would get continually renewed by new Albanians traveling around and settling in areas that are already primed to accept them. I imagine Italy has also had fairly less ethnic cleansings compared to the Balkans.
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Aug 18, 2023 07:10
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