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Captain Monkey posted:loved blasting rifts all day with my wife, we both miss them a lot. NM dungeons and the malignant tunnels are.. sorta.. the same but lack the same vibe somehow. It's the dead zones (better now in most dungeons) and areas where you need to backtrack the mcguffin to the pedestal. Plus sigils are this weird OG grift key plus rng thing. NMDs are fine but there just isn't anything else to progress alongside once the tree rewards fade.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:16
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Vic posted:lol who was saying what about BG3? some AAA studio devs telling the masses that actually, better things aren't possible, and that you shouldn't expect another game like it for at least a decade.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:18
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Tonetta posted:some AAA studio devs telling the masses that actually, better things aren't possible, and that you shouldn't expect another game like it for at least a decade. the elden ring copium...
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Aug 14, 2023 17:22
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CharlestonJew posted:the elden ring copium... As far as I can tell the complaint is that they didn't spend 500 million plastering their brand all over the place and that's heresy. They just made a goddamn game. I'm not a fan of Larian's "Look, physics! Aren't you amazed?!?" gameplay but what they did is what should happen and that terrifies marketing departments across the board when it's successful. Someone link the twitter lilith here, please.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:33
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Tonetta posted:some AAA studio devs telling the masses that actually, better things aren't possible, and that you shouldn't expect another game like it for at least a decade. Found a video about that if anyone's interested (timestamp on D4's Chris Balser's statement.) That's hilarious. They have what like 10 times the budget of Larian and spent it on loving spicy chicken sandwich marketing I'm dying over here. And they've been asked to do far less too. Must be the Pinkertons union busting budget. Vic fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 17:35
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https://twitter.com/Cromwelp/status/1690171362655002624?t=LPspqbLTGbNYzu9pCZ6SIA&s=19 Very AFK is the director of publishing for Larian. It got so bad Larian people had to start calling devs and people saying the same thing they were out. E: not to mention what that person is describing is every modern AAA, so the gap in quality stands even more in stark contrast
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Aug 14, 2023 17:41
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Tonetta posted:some AAA studio devs telling the masses that actually, better things aren't possible, and that you shouldn't expect another game like it for at least a decade. basically this  which is loving hilarious. it is our fault for rewarding their bad behavior and ideas by giving them our money, regardless of the terrible design decisions and awful tedium but it's great to see games like bg3 shine while all these bad companies and teams gnash their teeth at how well the game has been received by the wider gaming community. d4 only had a team of 9k+ working over 6+ years to get d4 "released" and even then, it'll likely take years to finally "finish" it while folks will still be paying them for $30 skins, $10 battle passes, etc. like clockwork. I'll prolly come back and check d4 out again after some time but right now, this seasonal poo poo ain't it.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:46
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Ornery and Hornery posted:What endgame stuff is D4 lacking? PoE endgame is also hugely customisable. You have a passive tree just for that and you earn points for it by completing maps at a certain rarity (maps can be modified using the same crafting system as items so you can add affixes to them, pump up existing affixes etc). That passive tree lets you change tons of stuff about how maps generate, how new maps drop, which league mechanics will be present and generally a ton of buffs that let you specialise in certain mechanics and get more out of them. Yes it's another PoE passive tree but it's no more complex than paragon boards. It's a good bit of design because there isn't really an optimum tree, it just lets you see more of your favourite stuff and less of what you don't like so it's all about player preference rather than raw power. Even if D4 added the extremely simple favourite maps system where you can bump the probability of your preferred maps dropping that would be a good start. Even then the differences between maps are less "this map takes twice as long for half the XP" and more like oh my build uses projectiles that bounce off walls so I'll favourite maps with lots of tight corridors
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Aug 14, 2023 17:53
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Tarnop posted:Even if D4 added the extremely simple favourite maps system where you can bump the probability of your preferred maps dropping that would be a good start. Even then the differences between maps are less "this map takes twice as long for half the XP" and more like oh my build uses projectiles that bounce off walls so I'll favourite maps with lots of tight corridors To be fair even if Blizzard employed the best developers, just the amount of red tape must be a nightmare to deal with. I worked at big corporations all my life and the weird almost ritualistic way some things are done would make any creative type poo poo. Or just office politics. Implementing simple changes then becomes a big deal. Vic fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 18:06
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Vic posted:To be fair even if Blizzard employed the best developers, just the amount of red tape must be a nightmare to deal with. I worked at big corporations all my life and the weird almost ritualistic way some things are done would make any creative type poo poo. Or just office politics. Yeah I was a video game programmer for 7 years it's a hosed up industry and working environment.
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Aug 14, 2023 18:10
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Ornery and Hornery posted:What endgame stuff is D4 lacking? It's really hard to articulate what makes a polished system, loop, gameplay etc feel better than what D4 has, but gently caress it, I'm nearing the end of my "taking D4 seriously" arc so here's an effortpost to last until S2. TL;DR: I can play D4 same as the other games. I can map activities in D4 to their counterparts in other games. So why do I feel bad when I try to progress my character in D4? My greatest disappointment in second half D4 by far is the itemization. I have not changed over half my slots in 10-20 levels. I am not sure I will ever change my amulet or rings. My upgrade choices for most slots are limited to "the exact same item but the ilevel is higher", and getting that item in the first place was low RNG so nah. My character is effectively finished before I actually got BiS. I do not like doing nothing but NMD. I have gone to helltides and world bosses for kicks, done WT3 and WT4 whispers if near a level up. NMD are simultaneously the only activity that offers the best rewards(glyph XP, best shots at loot) and the fastest activity. I honestly don't see the appeal of grinding helltides for chests over an hour when I can do a minimum of 4 NMDs in the same time assuming a casual/bad clear time of 15 minutes per. OK, I see the appeal in that god I want to do something else, but they're roads that lead to the same loot and the NMD road is more optimized so the Helltide road is there if I want a change of scenery. Helltides have some materials that you only need a handful of at a time because upgrading and swapping gear is pretty stagnant. World bosses are great spectacle but once you've done two you get it and I'd say they're honestly a huge waste of unique asset designs made for pure casual appeal. You could put them in NMDs or Giga NMDs you build up to every 5 NMDs or something and give a longer fight with a better jackpot. I dunno, it reminds me of weak MMO design. World bosses in WoW were never interesting to fight. You zoned out and tagged along with literally any 40 bodies that were around and did your rotation for 2 minutes until you got to check your loot. Can't you get sockets from treasure goblins now too? I had 20 of them the first time I cared to check. So World Bosses don't even have their own unique currency. Lets do some comparisons: Diablo 3: You do Bounties to get materials that feed Kanai's Cube. Cubes + D3 Enchanting are simply better than D4 so our sequel got a direct downgrade. You can hunt Keymasters to do Ubers. You can go to Rifts to get mats and loot, then push GR to test your personal benchmark. Even though D3 is guilty of some ARPG sins I'd say one of the best things it does is it takes a long time before you've got nothing to do to make your numbers go up. The D3 loop can be repetitive and it's very easy to say "GRs are NMDs, why do you hate NMDs" but perhaps I like that I can always do something simple or difficult to build myself up in D3 and have a few parallel systems of progression that neatly tie into each other at all times. In D4 I push NMDTide with a 1% or less chance to see an upgrade, but at least I can place down paragon 1-2 points per half hour and increase a rare glyphs power by .4% every 2-3 NMDs. Help, I've fallen into a bed and put a nightcap on. Hey, you know what else D3 did that I never see mentioned? Those set dungeon challenges. Just pure tests of gameplay skill. Grim Dawn: First off to belt it out here: better exploration in open world by far. More complex systems and parallel systems, constellation shrines are like if you had to do renown grind on every character but you got to put together an utterly fascinating Paragon Board 2 as you did it with thrice the brevity and impact. It's more of a traditional D2 difficulty curve: you push yourself to clear the base game, DLC 1 and DLC 2 on normal, nightmare, hell and each DLC is harder than the last. There's uber bosses, uber dungeons with uber bosses, building up to absurdly powerful craftables(which means a mostly consistent, guaranteed path of progression if you can survive the content), a K-Mart offbrand version of greater rifts, an arena mode for super hardcore build testing and just dramatically better itemization overall including the vendors being outstandingly good. You're consistently trading and balancing your gear to the level cap, feel constant compulsion to reroll alts in a system that supports 20+ possible "classes." I know nobody will believe me but GD has resistances that work and are an integral part of balancing your gear for higher difficulties and it feels good to get your setup right and survive stuff that should've killed you in Hell. The more meaningful things there are to balance the more meaningful feelings that are possible. PoE: See my Grim Dawn entry but increase the complexity, experimentation and stuff to do by a factor of at least 5. Diablo 2: Although it has a drastically different level based curve of itemization it feels much more engaging. You want to clear the 3 difficulties through to Hell and then try to defeat Ubers and be the best you can be and it's a great journey each time. Despite having the lowest number of options for things to do these days it still endures and several grognards will tell you it handily beats its sequels. I will say that D4 nails combat feel and trying each class out is a blast and takes awhile so 20-50 hours x 5 classes is a pretty beefy ARPG. When I'm kicking rear end with smooth dodges and landing all my stuff and seeing BIIIIG RENDS I feel great but after about 3 NMDs I put the game down for the day. An ideal D4 needs some meat on its bones. All ARPGs are repetitive, sure. The good ones are engaging despite it. They keep up a good illusion, better spectacle and have far better itemization to make sure the most primordial carrot on a stick is guiding you. -Bake Campaign assets into the end game loop, including but not limited to: -Hell and Nightmare mode. Aren't these just WT3 and WT4? OK, sure, but let me enter WT4 and do SUPER SPICY CAMPAIGN and give it cool rewards. -Reuse all those cool unique assets that vanish after the campaign. Andariel, Duriel, etc. Reuse good maps and tilesets like Hell. -Redoing Renown sucks. At least quintuple side quest rewards(or scale them to levels/wt!) and rework all unique quest rewards to not be forgettable alt fodder. You've seen those yellows they give you sometimes, did you keep any? Me neither. There are early level greens from Grim Dawn I consider on every new character and D2 has legendary incentive to do specific side quests. -Make every activity rewarding. Not identically rewarding, but you'll notice every high end player pushing the game starts to shed things they do. Why do the open world? Why do events for obols? Why do tree? Hell, personally I'm thinking why do World Bosses or Helltides? How many of us don't do dungeon events? At least non-NMD dungeons hold valuable aspects. Would it hurt the game if you got glyph XP doing every end game activity? -Loot 2.0. The itemization itself is largely bunked for reasons beaten to death in this thread and everywhere else. They can't do this anytime soon since they're still hoping to fix resistances in the next half a year but they repeated Vanilla D3s greatest sin, so oops. Why are most uniques itemized poorly? Every time I see Mother's Gift I think "ahh, a higher chance of rare salvage mats." -Parallel systems that use all this useless trash I'm collecting. No crafting? No cubing? Bad enchanting? Nothing to burn gems on? I just bulk salvage goods until I feel like I don't need to think about the first 3 upgrade levels of any new loot. I haven't clicked on an herb or mining node for 25 levels, pretty anemic system there. -Probably refine and expand the paragon system. It's pretty lazy in hindsight that you just vacuum up the glyphs to socket in at random from your first ten NMDs. There's more unique things you can tie to specific things to do. -I know this is a very generalized whine along the lines of "hey devs, have you tried making more content" but gently caress it, hey devs, have you tried making good content? S1 has set the bar pretty low for S2 to clear, basically being one new mid-boss, a texture filter on mobs and one dungeon tileset and D3 Legendary Gems Beta Edition. There's also all the little bits in D4 that just aren't very good. Does anybody like the dungeon events? Why are the treasure goblins less developed than D3s? They're actually dramatically dumbed down and failure proof with one behavior pattern vs the manic race you could lose in D3. Just an endless list of little gripes like this. Polish. -Aggressively set up harder content that demands grouping and put in actual groupfinding functionality. Why did we get an always online MMO style game for the UI team to put in a placeholder clan system and basic chat/emotes? Well I started rambling but you get the idea. And most of it doesn't matter compared to the feeling of bad itemization. There's a reason you can spend hours plotting a character and targeting ideal gear in another ARPG and in D4 people will mock you for using a guide. And why every five posts in this thread someone says "well, it's nice and once the devs get significant overhauls in it'll be really good." We're all thinking of what RoS did. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 18:13
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Vic posted:The main thing is the low monster density, busywork and backtracking. D4 is also like 1/3 the D3 movement speed. Two big differences for me: 1. The objective of the rift is to kill monsters. There are typically many more monsters in the rift than are needed to complete the objective. So if D4 designers are absolutely wedded to the idea of freeing prisoners or picking up keys then it should be "free 5 of the 10 prisoners on this map". This would reduce backtracking significantly 2. When you finish the objective, the boss spawns right there. Now obviously D4 bosses only function in their special rooms rather than being able to navigate layouts like D3 bosses could, so they could just spawn a portal to the boss room when you're done with the objectives
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Aug 14, 2023 18:27
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Ornery and Hornery posted:What endgame stuff is D4 lacking? I'm not a massive PoE head though I do enjoy it time to time and here's my take: PoE maps aren't just maps; they're essentially what funnels you through an interconnected, nested system of content. Each map has a chance to spawn past and current league content (each league has their own rewards/progression track) and it has its own big skill tree to influence how all those things interact and behave. You can spec to completely block out content you don't want or to lean into the ones you want and juice them up. The maps themselves are highly craftable/modifiable and you can do absurd things with them by slamming currencies. Climbing tiers in maps also lead to pinnacle bosses which are pretty well designed fights for the most part.
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Aug 14, 2023 18:28
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Now I want to play GD again... but with goons. Bloody Pox was so much fun, goddamn. Also I agree with so much of your post I think I'm gonna reevaluate what I want out of S1 and consider a break. In other news, Druid is 50. And I found the waxing gibbus or whatever the gently caress. Thought about doing the poison shred or bear creeper that eats the poison off, but I need a Vasily for that. I think that's my endgame, though. With bearsliding thrown in for good measure.
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Aug 14, 2023 18:30
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I love to open the Diablo 4 thread and learn about a totally different video game I'm not playing for pages and pages. On topic: I'm playing couch co-op, and I sort of want to level up an alt. We're currently in WT4, and I'm curious what's the best way to go about it. Ideally I could hit 50 very quickly by following them around in WT4? I know they needed the amount of XP you get in that situation but it has to be better than playing normally right?
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Aug 14, 2023 18:31
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EC posted:I love to open the Diablo 4 thread and learn about a totally different video game I'm not playing for pages and pages. create a new character and hit start game
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Aug 14, 2023 18:34
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EC posted:I love to open the Diablo 4 thread and learn about a totally different video game I'm not playing for pages and pages. Yeah it's like three hours or so to 70 if you really zoom https://youtu.be/aFWxjpT7r0c
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Aug 14, 2023 18:34
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Is rogue clone taunt still broken?
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Aug 14, 2023 18:36
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EC posted:I love to open the Diablo 4 thread and learn about a totally different video game I'm not playing for pages and pages. You're a few hundred pages late to that whinefest, but you haven't been here long. Welcome to the D4 thread.  Go do the dopamine tunnels for a bit in WT4 and run some low 30s nmd. My Druid was 50 in a couple hours this way. Someone with more experience will have better advice.
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Aug 14, 2023 18:37
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Maps have a ton of content in them (that you can engage with or not at your discretion), there tends to be less backtracking (since the goal is to clear as many regular mobs as you can on the way to the boss), and there are like 120 of them as well as opposed to only having like 10 a season. They're all pretty recognizable, too, although some are similar to each other obviously. If I say "silo" or "cells" or "belfry" or "atoll" then I imagine most PoE players will be able to picture the general layout and theme in their heads. I think NM dungeons could get there but they're underbaked, my biggest issue is probably all the "go down one tunnel to get doodad #1, then backtrack to get doodad #2" and "interact with these 8 objects to open the next door" design of NM dungeons. It feels like they tried to come up with something "new" or "different" than just mulching monsters but in my opinion they either shouldn't have or they just did it wrong, because just mulching monsters would be the better alternative. PoE's atlas passives is also insane and not something I'd expect in any other arpg too soon since you basically require a ton of content to build it on, but it's sort of like if you had a paragon board where you could choose to, say, buff the density of helltides or the chest rewards, or maybe double the points you get from whispers, or spawn more malignant tunnels that have a higher chance to drop specific hearts. (Imagine that all those things I mentioned are balanced to be viable in this scenario, it's just a way to get the customizability point across.)
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Aug 14, 2023 18:38
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OxMan posted:Is rogue clone taunt still broken? All better! It was only broken for about 24 hours
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Aug 14, 2023 18:39
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EC posted:I love to open the Diablo 4 thread and learn about a totally different video game I'm not playing for pages and pages. Hit that report button and type in: "Talking about ARPGs in a Diablo 4 thread." EC posted:On topic: I'm playing couch co-op, and I sort of want to level up an alt. We're currently in WT4, and I'm curious what's the best way to go about it. Ideally I could hit 50 very quickly by following them around in WT4? I know they needed the amount of XP you get in that situation but it has to be better than playing normally right? Effective powerleveling was patched out, so following them around WT4 will give you only a bit more than playing normally, and you'll be dead all the time so it might actually be worse. Them killing stuff for you in WT2 might be more effective. Vic fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 18:41
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Clocks posted:It feels like they tried to come up with something "new" or "different" than just mulching monsters but in my opinion they either shouldn't have or they just did it wrong, because just mulching monsters would be the better alternative. Yeah the problem with the objectives is that every system in the game is focused on improving your ability to mulch. My level 1 character is as good at clicking on a prisoner as my level 100. Move speed obviously helps with the backtracking but that just creates another mandatory stat which they also seem opposed to
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Aug 14, 2023 18:42
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15 World Bosses is an awful lot!! I wish they happened more than every 5.5 hours if I gotta kill this many!
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Aug 14, 2023 18:47
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:15 World Bosses is an awful lot!! I wish they happened more than every 5.5 hours if I gotta kill this many! Don't teleport away until the game confirms the boss is dead by removing the objective, or it doesn't count. I did this like three times.
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Aug 14, 2023 18:58
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Tarnop posted:Yeah the problem with the objectives is that every system in the game is focused on improving your ability to mulch. My level 1 character is as good at clicking on a prisoner as my level 100. Move speed obviously helps with the backtracking but that just creates another mandatory stat which they also seem opposed to somewhere in the blizz offices a monkey's paw finger curls and they start working on a system where you can fail to rescue a prisoner and get booted out of the dungeon, and the ghost of jay wilson whispers "skill issue" from the shadow dimension
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Aug 14, 2023 19:02
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Doomykins posted:It's really hard to articulate what makes a polished system, loop, gameplay etc feel better than what D4 has, but gently caress it, I'm nearing the end of my "taking D4 seriously" arc so here's an effortpost to last until S2. Good post imo and I'm sorry people saw it and went "not enough D4"
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Aug 14, 2023 19:04
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Doomykins posted:TL;DR: I can play D4 same as the other games. I can map activities in D4 to their counterparts in other games. So why do I feel bad when I try to progress my character in D4? That's probably the best I've seen it summed up, so kudos to you. (and yes, I did read the rest of the post, and it was good) BG3 set out to make an ambitious thing, with specific goals, and made it. D4 set out to simultaneously be Diablo 2: 2, Diablo 3: 2, an MMO to replace the rapidly decaying WoW, and a game that felt at home in 2023. None of these goals are compatible, but something something advertising. There's no soul in D4. There's tactics to every online game designed to harvest MAU but that's like.. all that D4 currently has. It's like a marketing-designed game where if you look hard enough you can see a designer trying to poke through it.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:05
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Swilo posted:somewhere in the blizz offices a monkey's paw finger curls and they start working on a system where you can fail to rescue a prisoner and get booted out of the dungeon, and the ghost of jay wilson whispers "skill issue" from the shadow dimension As soon as I pressed submit I was wondering if I'd monkey pawed an "objective progress bar speed" affix into existence
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Aug 14, 2023 19:06
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Quote-Unquote posted:Don't teleport away until the game confirms the boss is dead by removing the objective, or it doesn't count.  Tiny Timbs posted:Good post imo and I'm sorry people saw it and went "not enough D4" They have to put on their Something Awful Persona when they sit down to post. If they don't feel like Slayer McDoomcool, ESQ. after pressing Submit Reply, it just won't hit the same. Mailer posted:That's probably the best I've seen it summed up, so kudos to you. (and yes, I did read the rest of the post, and it was good) It really was!
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Aug 14, 2023 19:12
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Aww shucks, thanks fellas. What really got me deep thinking about it was watching a D2 enthusiast stream yesterday, sick as a dog in bed. Needed passive entertainment to drift in and out to, went with cuss man hardcore throwbarb. Fun to watch a dude so enthusiastic about his jank rear end build and approach to problem solving in D2. Aside from the lightning vamps(who could be 4 elites) passing me around for shock hugs the WT4 NMDs were pretty good. Back and forth life and death stuff with decision making and good play needed. I'm pushing my own contrarian snowflake build as high as I can. I just need some carrots to drop. I'll give Druid a good run in S2 too. Until then I'm staring down the barrel of PoE.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:19
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:All better! It was only broken for about 24 hours Thanks!
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Aug 14, 2023 19:38
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Weird there hasn't been any new D2R season news.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:39
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Doomykins posted:BIG OLE EFFORT POST Thank you for sharing 🙂 I appreciate the effort post and found the read engaging and interesting!!!
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Aug 14, 2023 19:40
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Tarnop posted:My level 1 character is as good at clicking on a prisoner as my level 100. You're telling me you got to level 100 and never got the Pants of +25% Prisoner Release Speed? smh
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Aug 14, 2023 19:47
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Quote-Unquote posted:Don't teleport away until the game confirms the boss is dead by removing the objective, or it doesn't count. This can take like 30+ seconds after the loot drops. I've done it multiple times too.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:48
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AcidCat posted:You're telling me you got to level 100 and never got the Pants of +25% Prisoner Release Speed? smh Yeah don’t give them anymore ideas for more affixes here.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:55
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I want an entire set that does nothing but buff you after releasing a prisoner.
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Aug 14, 2023 20:01
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Tonetta posted:I've given them all a go except titan quest & torchlight 3, and while the early game in this game is pretty good, that's not the part of any arpg that interests me, so the game falls a bit flat in the current state. the torchlight series doesn't quite feel as good at diablo does maybe, but it's also $20 so my expectations from what I get out of it is tempered. Poe, greatest arpg by a country mile, is free to play, and while there's some inventory issues at the $0 level, $20-$30 lifetime will cover pretty much anybody who isn't a massive hoarder who played 500 hours a league. even Lost Ark was free* but had a great pvp system (except the fact they took way too long to release a ranked mode and I lost interest by then) that circumvented their free* gameplay loop. yes, their monetary system is disgusting, yet who took all the worst parts of it and put it into their next title? I’m a nasty little bitch but I agree with this entire post. Full endorsement.
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Aug 14, 2023 20:30
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I'm getting sick of the S1 stuff and thinking about bowing out for the season at like level 77. Is there any reason to keep going if I've completed the battle pass? None of the ashes carry over or anything do they? I'm just trying to make sure I don't miss out on anything if I don't get to 100.
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Aug 14, 2023 20:51
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