YouTube tech idiots fandom thread: Labor Threat Tips

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Beve Stuscemi: Jun 6, 2001

Vir posted:

I think LMG is going to handle this badly, unfortunately.

Literally 100% of their past history says you are correct, so........ :munch:

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:09

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# ? May 30, 2024 23:40

Happy_Misanthrope: Aug 3, 2007; "I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Not sure how you even 'apologize' in this situation, it's not a critique of a single or a couple of screw-ups, it's a systematic takedown of his entire project. Steve was generous in framing this as an overstressed workforce, and they are - but it's not like they slipped on a banana peel and fell into this situation. The 'fix' for this is for Linus to be a different person, so good luck with that I guess?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:11

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

Not sure how you even 'apologize' in this situation, it's not a critique of a single or a couple of screw-ups, it's a systematic takedown of his entire project. Steve was generous in framing this as an overstressed workforce, and they are - but it's not like they slipped on a banana peel and fell into this situation. The 'fix' for this is for Linus to be a different person, so good luck with that I guess?

I meant to Billet Labs, and before this video.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:16

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

All I could think of while watching that video was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXZFbGJxSlk&t=19s

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:18

Theophany: Jul 22, 2014; SUCCHIAMI IL MIO CAZZO DA DIETRO, RANA RAGAZZO

2022 FIA Formula 1 WDC

Jiro posted:

I wonder if Linus saw this coming and tried to head it off by not being in charge of his own company anymore having the other guy he used to work with as a fall guy.

I mean, it's still his name on the door so you'd have to think if this was the final nail in the coffin and he was anticipating it, then he'd have been better off taking that hundo mil and loving off into the sunset.

Like Steve said, it's like Linus is completely off base in thinking more content is equivalent to success when that is demonstrably not the case when it comes to accuracy. The other part that stuck out to me was Billet Labs saying how they'd explained to Adam how to use their product properly and what I inferred was that LMG staff are part of an all too common hero worship/rainmaker situation and go along with what Linus says rather than call him out and say he's being a doofus and should read the goddamn manual. You can see it with Luke on WAN show, he seems to be one of the very few employees who will call Linus out when he says dipshit things.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:19

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

The end result of all this will be that LTT continues to be a complete youtube juggernaut and keeps putting out shoddy videos and treating small companies badly while unabashedly sucking up to the big manufacturers, book it!

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:19

LGD: Sep 25, 2004

Jiro posted:

I wonder if Linus saw this coming and tried to head it off by not being in charge of his own company anymore having the other guy he used to work with as a fall guy.

nah, he was front and center in the most egregious video cited and if he just wanted to head off complaints about LMG's testing accuracy there are/were multiple obvious and easy (if bottom-line affecting) solutions that don't require stepping down - not hard to adjust internal processes while proactively getting ahead of anything by running off a couple (more) videos about hard it is to start up testing and vowing to do better going forward

his stepping down also doesn't remove the issues of organizational conflicts of interest, change the fact that as the owner/face of the business there's only so much deflection "upward" that can be done about externally visible issues before "well why don't you do something about it?" comes to the fore, etc.

I don't think there's any particularly good reason to go looking for explanations outside of the reason(s) Linus himself provided - offloading a job/responsibilities he doesn't particularly like on someone else because he's in a position to do that

priznat posted:

The end result of all this will be that LTT continues to be a complete youtube juggernaut and keeps putting out shoddy videos and treating small companies badly while unabashedly sucking up to the big manufacturers, book it!

p much yeah

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:23

Happy_Misanthrope: Aug 3, 2007; "I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Rinkles posted:

I meant to Billet Labs, and before this video.

Ah ok my bad.

Seeing a number of takes along the lines of "I hope LTT improves from this" in other avenues and had my brain stuck in that mode - like, what? Linus is first and foremost a marketing guy, that's where he comes from and that's what he's always done. Like what are these people expecting?

Edit: Jesus, Shiba Inu videos don't get ratios like this

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:23

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

priznat posted:

The end result of all this will be that LTT continues to be a complete youtube juggernaut and keeps putting out shoddy videos and treating small companies badly while unabashedly sucking up to the big manufacturers, book it!

Of course it will be. There's basically three tranches of people in their viewership. The stans, the haters and the people that don't give a poo poo. The ratios won't shift in any appreciable way.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:25

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

Ah ok my bad.

Seeing a number of takes along the lines of "I hope LTT improves from this" in other avenues and had my brain stuck in that mode - like, what? Linus is first and foremost a marketing guy, that's where he comes from and that's what he's always done. Like what are these people expecting?

if linus/ltt/lmg had stayed being a marketing vehicle that would be one thing but they're now saying they're an authority and like the tour of the labs pointed out, they're taking potshots at other people's methodologies when they're doing poo poo themselves

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:25

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

VostokProgram posted:

How is the waterblock thing not theft?

it is.

there's literal video of them auctioning it off after billet asked for it back. its a prototype, so if they were planning on selling the finished product for $800, then its worth considerably more than that. i really hope they sue cause that's hosed up and who knows where that prototype can end up.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:26

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Arivia posted:

they're taking potshots at other people's methodologies when they're doing poo poo themselves

This is the really crazy thing, like does this video even get made if LTT doesn't directly try to say their testing is superior to GN?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:30

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

njsykora posted:

This is the really crazy thing, like does this video even get made if LTT doesn't directly try to say their testing is superior to GN?

this specific video, maybe not. it felt like the straw that broke the camel's back for right now, right here. but it's very obvious that steve's been collecting issues and preparing a response for a long time while checking all his poo poo, so this was gonna happen sooner rather than later.

steve doesn't make a video like this without being ready. he's way too organized and cautious a guy to do that.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:32

Voxx: Jul 28, 2009; I'll give 'em a hold
and a break to breathe
And if they can't play nice
I won't play with 'em at all

njsykora posted:

This is the really crazy thing, like does this video even get made if LTT doesn't directly try to say their testing is superior to GN?

i think it does, even if steve is human and may have pride in what he does, it seems like this video was a possibility outside of that because of the waterblock thing. they ordered the video from minor to worst which does frame it more like a response to that comment, since a chunk of it was testing errors. the waterblock thing had deeper coverage than "we just opened a random video and here's some examples"

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:35

power crystals: Jun 6, 2007; Who wants a belly rub??

njsykora posted:

This is the really crazy thing, like does this video even get made if LTT doesn't directly try to say their testing is superior to GN?

From Steve's comments at the start it sounded like they still weren't going to until Linus decided to do his usual whole-rear end-showing in response to HUB being rightly annoyed at those original comments.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:37

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Can't wait for the inevitable WAN show section where Linus expresses his deepest disappointment in Steve and plays the victim.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:43

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

a/b tested youtube thumbnail with serious linus face and some variation of vague "we need to talk" as a title

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:44

Theophany: Jul 22, 2014; SUCCHIAMI IL MIO CAZZO DA DIETRO, RANA RAGAZZO

2022 FIA Formula 1 WDC

Combat Pretzel posted:

Can't wait for the inevitable WAN show section where Linus expresses his deepest disappointment in Steve and plays the victim.

Friday is only a few days away! I can't wait to see Luke's perpetually disappointed expression lol.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:48

Kazinsal: Dec 13, 2011

I am entirely unsurprised that the charismatic darling sales guy of shady defunct retailer NCIX is a scumbag.

VostokProgram posted:

How is the waterblock thing not theft?

It sounds like it'd be classified as "theft by conversion", which is basically theft via selling something you don't actually own. Like if you rented a Lamborghini for a week and sold it to a chop shop (a thing that some incredibly stupid people do).

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:49

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Kazinsal posted:

I am entirely unsurprised that the charismatic darling sales guy of shady defunct retailer NCIX is a scumbag.

Lol yep this is the main source of dislike for him, forever tainted by that lovely company.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:52

Yaoi Gagarin: Feb 20, 2014

Kazinsal posted:

I am entirely unsurprised that the charismatic darling sales guy of shady defunct retailer NCIX is a scumbag.

It sounds like it'd be classified as "theft by conversion", which is basically theft via selling something you don't actually own. Like if you rented a Lamborghini for a week and sold it to a chop shop (a thing that some incredibly stupid people do).

And if you do that do they sue you, or do they file a police report?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:53

Dogwood Fleet: Sep 14, 2013

Man, my first inclination was to brush this off as Youtube drama but :suspense:

# ? Aug 14, 2023 21:56

Internet Explorer: Jun 1, 2005

I just watch this thread for the reports, but now you all got me on the edge of my seat.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:14

mewse: May 2, 2006

mewse posted:

Yeah. I�m projecting a little bit because my first job was in VFX in Winnipeg so I know the �creative� industry in Canada a little bit - but I can�t imagine those editors are getting paid much to drop everything multiple times per day and help out with whatever Linus�s most recent stupid idea is

Do I get credit for saying LTT is probably a terrible workplace in 2019

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:16

CBD Corndog: Jun 21, 2009

mewse posted:

Do I get credit for saying LTT is probably a terrible workplace in 2019

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:23

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1691149928683155479?t=_y-3f3CYGECYCDSb9I-Kdg&s=19

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:26

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

Linus is the human avatar of gently caress Around.

Steve has devoted his life to mastering the art of Find Out.

It was always destined to end this way.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:28

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

SlowBloke posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGW3TPytTjc

Time for poo poo flinging in the comments.

*stamps floor, pounds table* BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!

Arivia posted:

Oh my god that power supply review. I had little to no idea about this poo poo. How has LMG been letting this stand?!

Profit brained capitalists.

Arivia posted:

there's a mention of a second possible video about issues with lmg ties to companies in categories they're reviewing (linus' framework investment, the labs guy having ties to stuff, same for the new ceo) and steve is very clearly holding some poo poo back. this is gonna get even more hot before it goes anywhere.

Yeah, this very clearly isn't even Tech Jesus' final form.

Rinkles posted:

Did LTT apologize at least?

Why apologize when you don't think you're going to get caught?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:29

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Remind me who that guy is again? I vaguely remember him saying GN was talking poo poo over the backpack thing as well.

Also I just noticed one of the other things being auctioned off at Linuscon was a Youtube NFT lmao.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:30

Dogwood Fleet: Sep 14, 2013

Internet Explorer posted:

I just watch this thread for the reports, but now you all got me on the edge of my seat.

This is a time where you absolutely should watch the video.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:30

Tornhelm: Jul 26, 2008

So Linus has responded...
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/?do=findComment&comment=16078641

quote:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

Thanks for reading this.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:35

imHitchens: Oct 24, 2012; harlequin macaw

WTF is this. Did his fanbase drive someone to suicide?
https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15r7sem/gn_could_have_gone_deeper_on_the_ltt_communitys/

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:36

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

I ain't reading that bit of whine.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:36

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

linus i'm not actually sure you are a real person. you may just be a mutated gnome.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:37

buglord: Jul 31, 2010; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!; Buglord

Internet Explorer posted:

I just watch this thread for the reports, but now you all got me on the edge of my seat.

Were you scared when you saw 100 new posts

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:37

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Linus is mad

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:38

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

He�s not mad, he�s disappointed

Completely different

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:39

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Only read the first part because tl;dr, but "we didn't sell it, we auctioned it" lolwat. And if GN was in contact with Billet, they sure would have mentioned said claim of compensation from LTT?

Phone posted:

He�s not mad, he�s disappointed

Called it.

--edit: That dickhead tripled down on the faulty Billet testing and conclusion.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:40

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

StrixNebulosa posted:

Linus is mad

Should've sold out when he had the chance.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:40

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# ? May 30, 2024 23:40

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

I ain't reading that bit of whine.

All you need to know is he said what everyone expected. Whining that Steve didn't come to him, despite multiple historical examples of Steve going to him and getting nowhere until doing a video on whatever the thing at the time was. Also refers to "Team Media" seeming to push the idea that all the media outlets should be on the same side which gently caress the hell off dude.

quote:

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece.

He also says the water block auction was due to a "miscommunication" which, loving how my dude? You said you'd send the block back in June and auctioned it off at an event in loving August.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 22:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YouTube tech idiots fandom thread: Labor Threat Tips

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