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X-Ray Pecs posted:Thinkin about lil baby boy Quatre obliterating a whole colony because of the Zero System. personally im thinking of allenby going murder death kill style when the mad scientist pulls the lever
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Aug 15, 2023 00:34
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drrockso20 posted:Like I've said before conceptually Cyber Newtypes are a great idea, the problem in the execution is that most people who get converted into them are coerced into it, brainwashed, and/or already mentally unstable because the Titans and Neo Zeon are both a bunch of incompetent psychotic assholes I'm not sure that's really a problem, because the alternate is someone who is perfectly normal and just becomes a better pilot purely because of an external system, which is kind of boring. You can make it more than that obviously, but doing so kind of requires focusing on the pursuit of power in and of itself to some degree, in a way that Gundam generally doesn't want to do because it's not something it wants to portray protagonists as doing and it generally doesn't give that much weight to it's antagonists. Mika and the Barbatos' limiters are basically that, but portraying the price for power being insanity is a much simpler shorthand to give an antagonist.
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Aug 15, 2023 00:52
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Ohtori Akio posted:personally im thinking of allenby going murder death kill style when the mad scientist pulls the lever I can’t believe I didn’t go here first.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:03
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X-Ray Pecs posted:I can’t believe I didn’t go here first. she's dramatically under respected. and frankly i blame you
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Aug 15, 2023 02:04
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tsob posted:I'm not sure that's really a problem, because the alternate is someone who is perfectly normal and just becomes a better pilot purely because of an external system, which is kind of boring. You can make it more than that obviously, but doing so kind of requires focusing on the pursuit of power in and of itself to some degree, in a way that Gundam generally doesn't want to do because it's not something it wants to portray protagonists as doing and it generally doesn't give that much weight to it's antagonists. Mika and the Barbatos' limiters are basically that, but portraying the price for power being insanity is a much simpler shorthand to give an antagonist. I'm talking about the concept from a Watsonian angle in universe not the meta textual Doylist one
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Aug 15, 2023 02:13
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From what we're shown, making a cyber newtype involves invasive brain surgery, and we don't know if there's any long term consequences to the process given that basically every cyber newtype we see on screen dies young and horribly, so I'd say digging around in peoples' heads to try to make them psychic is probably bad even if you don't intend to brainwash them and use them as superweapons.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:16
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Ohtori Akio posted:she's dramatically under respected. and frankly i blame you I accept blame for remembering Wing, a bad show, before G Gundam, a very good show.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:22
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loving around in people brains to give them entirely new senses that all develop at once instead of slowly seems like a recipe for bad times even with the best of intentions.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:22
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Gaius Marius posted:loving around in people brains to give them entirely new senses that all develop at once instead of slowly seems like a recipe for bad times even with the best of intentions. It'll be fine.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:28
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Eh I mean we see that stable Cyber Newtypes are possible to make and the potential results are too good to just abandon the technology just because the first couple of groups to use it were moronic douchebags
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Aug 15, 2023 02:29
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El5n seemed pretty well adjusted, he was just crap as a pilot because he didnt want to die :3 El4n just wanted a birthday party.
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Aug 15, 2023 03:13
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By that measure you could argue Suletta is a stable cyber newtype.
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Aug 15, 2023 03:28
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tsob posted:I'm not sure that's really a problem, because the alternate is someone who is perfectly normal and just becomes a better pilot purely because of an external system, which is kind of boring. You can make it more than that obviously, but doing so kind of requires focusing on the pursuit of power in and of itself to some degree, in a way that Gundam generally doesn't want to do because it's not something it wants to portray protagonists as doing and it generally doesn't give that much weight to it's antagonists. Mika and the Barbatos' limiters are basically that, but portraying the price for power being insanity is a much simpler shorthand to give an antagonist. But they don't just become a better pilot, Newtype abilities give them extrasensory connections to other human beings. you can absolutely tell stories about somebody who wants the Newtype power to be a better pilot, but then suddenly has to deal with the weight of human connection that gives them as a side effect. I remember ages ago reading a sci-fi story about the US military putting these super advanced quantum computers in guided missiles, and at first they worked fantastically but after 6 months the missiles would become completely unpredictable, veering wildly off course or detonating in the tube for no reason. And eventually they figured out that after about six months those fancy new computers became self aware, but since they had no frame of reference for the world around them or even their own existence they had no idea what to do and would just act randomly in a way that was completely unintelligible to humans.
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Aug 15, 2023 03:38
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Cyber newtypes are also physically enhanced in several other ways (rosamia was able to breathe freely at ultra high cruising altitude in her first appearance, iirc) so god know how stable they are physically, even
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Aug 15, 2023 04:00
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Marida could lift an entire child by the ankles
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Aug 15, 2023 04:08
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Tekkadan is an entire PMC of cyber-newtypes, if we're referencing other settings, and they're pretty stable. AV hookups give enhanced spatial awareness, which is the CE shorthand for Newtypes, and Tekkadan's Brewers recruits are even given the closest thing the show gets to a Newtype speech. ("Born in space, and not afraid to die there. The chosen few, and proud of it.") As for feats of strength, I think doing a one-handed chokehold of a 2 meter mountain of muscle beats lifting a small child.
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Aug 15, 2023 05:23
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tbf the power level of AV stuff seems to vary wildly based on how many times you got stabbed. mika's as good as he is because he got multiple but we see the boys who only got one struggling to keep up with him.
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Aug 15, 2023 05:24
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drrockso20 posted:Eh I mean we see that stable Cyber Newtypes are possible to make and the potential results are too good to just abandon the technology just because the first couple of groups to use it were moronic douchebags Our biggest example of a "stable" cyber newtype is Gyunei, and I don't even think I'd really call him terribly stable given that he's kind of a hot mess in CCA even if he's not clutching his head and screaming about voices. Gates Kappa is the other example people sometimes give, but we don't see enough of him to know if he's hosed up or not. Given that he's a Titans product, I'm betting he is. Endorph posted:tbf the power level of AV stuff seems to vary wildly based on how many times you got stabbed. mika's as good as he is because he got multiple but we see the boys who only got one struggling to keep up with him. Not even just keep up, they can't even begin to approach him. Poor old one-whisker Dante tries to move the Barbatos once and nearly has a brain aneurysm. Akihiro can only kind of keep up because he's got two. Kanos fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 05:28
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Endorph posted:tbf the power level of AV stuff seems to vary wildly based on how many times you got stabbed. mika's as good as he is because he got multiple but we see the boys who only got one struggling to keep up with him. It varies, but even one is enough to put you head and shoulders above all but the most skilled baselines. Human Debris with one whisker beats Gjallarhorn line troops even in the fleets that bother to train them well, and Eugene's ship piloting stunts are all done with one whisker. I'll agree that two, three, or the setups Gjallarhorn uses are all much better than one, but even one is significant. (It's also noted that Mika being such a beast is partially on him being, well, himself. His skills, experience, and complete disregard for his own safety are also major factors in him being so dangerous. Julieta's scenes often highlight this by showing that, despite her skills and her belief that she's got the same emptiness, she's normal, and in the end, accepting that is what saves her.) chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 05:59
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Kanos posted:Our biggest example of a "stable" cyber newtype is Gyunei, and I don't even think I'd really call him terribly stable given that he's kind of a hot mess in CCA even if he's not clutching his head and screaming about voices. Way I see it is that yes Gyunei is a creepy loser but he's stable in all the ways that actually matter as a pilot, he just had the misfortune of going up against someone like Amuro
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Aug 15, 2023 06:41
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he might naturally be a creepy loser. you can't blame everything on being a cyber newtype.
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Aug 15, 2023 06:56
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:he might naturally be a creepy loser. you can't blame everything on being a cyber newtype. My thoughts exactly, his negative personality traits are a bit too mundane to be something you can blame on him being a Cyber Newtype, particularly when compared to "Most Divorced Man In The Universal Century" Carrozo "Iron Mask" Ronah where yeah he had probably always been a melodramatic nut but him becoming a Cyber Newtype was probably what ramped it up to 11 and made him want to murder everyone with chainsaw tentacles and exploding Beyblades
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Aug 15, 2023 12:22
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drrockso20 posted:Like I've said before conceptually Cyber Newtypes are a great idea, the problem in the execution is that most people who get converted into them are coerced into it, brainwashed, and/or already mentally unstable because the Titans and Neo Zeon are both a bunch of incompetent psychotic assholes but if they don't do those things how will they ensure their expensive and powerful toy doesn't swap sides on them better make the robot evil too just to be certain Kanos posted:Our biggest example of a "stable" cyber newtype is Gyunei, and I don't even think I'd really call him terribly stable given that he's kind of a hot mess in CCA even if he's not clutching his head and screaming about voices. wasn't mouar and some others in the jerid/scirroco exotic hair color harem cybernewtypes? they seemed pretty stable too, though i guess you can only say so much about someone who willingly ties themselves to jerid
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Aug 15, 2023 13:59
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Was Chara Soon officially a cyber newtype? Because she must have been one for a while given how much drat hair she had. It would be very funny if she was just like that naturally, and it would probably make her one of the greatest pilots of the UC given what she was able to do.
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Aug 15, 2023 14:18
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Nessus posted:Was Chara Soon officially a cyber newtype? Because she must have been one for a while given how much drat hair she had. It would be very funny if she was just like that naturally, and it would probably make her one of the greatest pilots of the UC given what she was able to do. When she returns to ZZ, they talk about her “training” and I think even enhancement, so possibly. If she was a Cyber Newtype, she’d be the only person made more sane by that treatment.
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Aug 15, 2023 15:42
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I like the Geymalk it's a great mobile suit design and it's a shame it doesn't get more love. Crazy pilot, crazy beam spam and an absolute unit.
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Aug 15, 2023 15:44
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Nessus posted:Was Chara Soon officially a cyber newtype? Because she must have been one for a while given how much drat hair she had. It would be very funny if she was just like that naturally, and it would probably make her one of the greatest pilots of the UC given what she was able to do. Chara and Mashymre both were both oldtypes but were turned into cyber newtypes at some point before the climax of ZZ.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:29
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Mashymere becoming a Cyber Newtype is maybe the second biggest downgrade in the Gundam I’ve watched (the first is the Hyaku-Shiki to Delta Plus pipeline).
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Aug 15, 2023 17:12
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Arc Hammer posted:I like the Geymalk it's a great mobile suit design and it's a shame it doesn't get more love. Crazy pilot, crazy beam spam and an absolute unit. I admire any funnel equipped unit that puts funnels in its funnels.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:37
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https://twitter.com/fray2free/status/1690962852851613697?s=20
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Aug 15, 2023 19:34
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ninjewtsu posted:but if they don't do those things how will they ensure their expensive and powerful toy doesn't swap sides on them See my previous post about how I'm approaching this from a purely in universe angle
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Aug 15, 2023 22:51
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drrockso20 posted:See my previous post about how I'm approaching this from a purely in universe angle me too?
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Aug 15, 2023 23:05
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Arc Hammer posted:I like the Geymalk it's a great mobile suit design and it's a shame it doesn't get more love. Crazy pilot, crazy beam spam and an absolute unit. Same, it's one of my favorite UC designs and it shows up so rarely in games and I don't think it's had a kit since the 90's. The old 1/144 kits are insanely expensive online too, it's real sad.
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Aug 16, 2023 00:33
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chiasaur11 posted:Tekkadan is an entire PMC of cyber-newtypes, if we're referencing other settings, and they're pretty stable. They're not the same at all. Newtypes and their Cybernetic cousins can sense outside of their selves and to other human beings, and by this I mean actual humans e.g. The Soul rather than mortal bodies. The ability for this to also be used to control funnels and the like is incidental. The AV system allows one to interface with the Gundams as if they were limbs, and you could say that the ability of say Mika to flip his Barbatos tail around is superhuman, but when you think about the layer of interface it's really more like learning to flex your eyebrows or pecs. With the barbatos replacing in effect the body, you're translating your mind and souls movement intentions to a differing frame but not affecting other bodies in the attempt, merely shifting what a body is in your minds frame of reference. IBO tends towards dehumanization of transhumanism, with Mika and with Ein especially. Their human forms are gradually corrupted into mechanical monstrosities as the desperation of their lives forces them into a more bestial existence; there is no counterpoint made to show positive uses of AV aside from killing the MA's, even potential ones we can envision easily like deep space exploration governed by Einized bodies launched into the aether. . Early UC is positive on transhumanism as a concept and negative in it's execution, closer to The Stars my Destination or whatever Cyberpunk tale you'd prefer with wonder technology being misapplied towards awful ends.
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Aug 16, 2023 02:44
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AV system and Ein especially are closer to a 40K Dreadnought than they are to Cyber Newtypes.
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Aug 16, 2023 02:47
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they're cybernewtypes in the sense that they are the bad kind of transhumanism, where the enhancements are done to the detriment of the person receiving them, which i think is the actually important part of the cybernewtype trope if you're looking cross-timeline
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Aug 16, 2023 04:04
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ninjewtsu posted:they're cybernewtypes in the sense that they are the bad kind of transhumanism, where the enhancements are done to the detriment of the person receiving them, which i think is the actually important part of the cybernewtype trope if you're looking cross-timeline The distinction is between Cyber Newtype harming the potentiality of the person in question as well as our race as a whole while AV harms the person as they are in individuality. The level of perversion of personhood is similar in micro and startlingly different in the macroscopic view.
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Aug 16, 2023 04:47
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People were mentioning Thunderbolt on the previous pages, and I just need to say that the AC-Guy tactical squad in Bandit Flower is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Absolutely nails that rpg/Xcom vibe to squad building. My gunpla dream is to make something like that but with Zakus.
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Aug 16, 2023 07:02
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ninjewtsu posted:wasn't mouar and some others in the jerid/scirroco exotic hair color harem cybernewtypes? they seemed pretty stable too, though i guess you can only say so much about someone who willingly ties themselves to jerid All Cyber Newtypes have exotic hair colors (so far as I recall), but not every character with an exotic hair color is a Cyber Newtype. There's no indication Mouar was a Cyber Newtype, for instance. Gaius Marius posted:The distinction is between Cyber Newtype harming the potentiality of the person in question as well as our race as a whole while AV harms the person as they are in individuality. How do Cyber Newtypes harm the potential of humanity as a whole in any specific way? The most I can see is generalized arguments about them taking resources from other avenues, being used to hurt others etc. Which is just as true of a lot of other things, including AV.
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Aug 16, 2023 11:05
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Gaius Marius posted:The distinction is between Cyber Newtype harming the potentiality of the person in question as well as our race as a whole  cybernewtypes aren't messing with genetics to my knowledge?
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Aug 16, 2023 13:01
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