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Combat Pretzel posted:That's so loving dumb. If you control the environment properly, the results should be repeatable. If you think you're doing it better by rerunning benchmarks of past configurations, your methodology is wrong. Isn't the guy initially from RTings? There are a lot of people being hired into the Labs division now, some were from rtings but most weren't.
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Aug 15, 2023 09:04
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The pickup pattern graph they used for that mic review is hilarious(ly bad)
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Aug 15, 2023 09:14
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Fragrag posted:I did a quick skim of recent LTT videos and I noticed that for every single one of them Linus is the Director/Producer which is just absolutely insane. There's not even any assistant producers on the staff roster. That means there is no oversight from research/testing, writing, filming and editing phases. Ostensibly that could be the writer but it seems they're swamped while also occasionally being pulled into co-host duties. No extra pair of eyes to go "These results from the lab are kinda weird, we need to omit that" . I wouldn’t take those director and producer credits as gospel.
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Aug 15, 2023 09:19
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I wonder how many members of LMG are secretly really happy about this GN piece. It's clear they all want to do better but can't, because of management.
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Aug 15, 2023 09:26
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The Grumbles posted:I wouldn’t take those director and producer credits as gospel. Yeah I absolutely do not believe Linus actually performs those roles in any meaningful sense. It just begs the question, does anyone else do that?
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Aug 15, 2023 09:34
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At least those stuffy TV and film unions have strict rules about who can claim a director or writer credit. In that business they give "executive producer" credits to the bigwigs, and that might better describe Linus' role here. Or "editor in charge" perhaps. There's no YouTuber union to make sure that the actual creative person gets credit - that's all up to the contracts at LMG, I guess.Tornhelm posted:There's also the fact that its not really necessary when they've already made public statements regarding the situation.
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Aug 15, 2023 09:38
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Fragrag posted:Yeah I absolutely do not believe Linus actually performs those roles in any meaningful sense. It just begs the question, does anyone else do that? Yes, of course. You wouldn't be able to make those sorts of videos with either of those roles being actively performed. My point was more there's historically some skeeziness on how and whether people get to be credited on LTT videos. And when you're in a chaotic creative organisation, people end up stepping up in all kinds of ways to fill roles that they shouldn't (and that they'r not on the pay grade for) to keep the ball rolling. One reason at least why people in more mature broadcast media tend to be rigidly unionised
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Aug 15, 2023 10:08
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Combat Pretzel posted:That's so loving dumb. If you control the environment properly, the results should be repeatable. If you think you're doing it better by rerunning benchmarks of past configurations, your methodology is wrong. Isn't the guy initially from RTings? Former Human posted:Makes me wonder if the lab guru they hired is feeding Linus bullshit lines like that to make his job and the lab itself sound more important. "We're going to be even more thorough than Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed because [made up reason]" and Linus doesn't know any better. ffs it's because more recent drivers might have affected previously measured parts
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Aug 15, 2023 10:11
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Yeah, the idea of doing periodic retests isn't dumb. The idea of doing completely new testing with every single new product launch for all previous products is rather silly though. There are ways to validate old data without having to completely retest every single game on every single piece of hardware every month. The guy who gave the "this is what sets us apart from GamersNexus and Hardware Unboxed" line was just some guy. I think he's designing their automation tools, but he wasn't the head labs "guru" or anything, and I also believe it was said rather off-the-cuff and wasn't really thought out. Because as Steve pointed out in his video, LTT's own data is definitely not redone every review—there's definitely a decent amount of reused data. And if that guy knew anything about what Hardware Unboxed actually does, he would have realized that they actually do a lot of retesting. Their 50-game head-to-head hardware comparisons (where it's just one product against another) have fresh data in each video except for times where one component is tested against multiple in relatively quick succession. HUB Steve also regularly validates old data when doing new product reviews. And so does GN Steve, for that matter. There's been times when some products had to be retested to get fresh data for new reviews. So the claim made by that guy was still largely bullshit.
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Aug 15, 2023 10:25
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I keep thinking about this mouse review thing. You'd think if it slides like rear end, you'd rather quickly inspect the glide surfaces.VostokProgram posted:ffs it's because more recent drivers might have affected previously measured parts
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Aug 15, 2023 10:36
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key word there is "periodic" - it's prudent to re-do your test data if there's been a new driver released, or there's a big game (or stretch of games) that was just released, or to re-test contemporary hardware in anticipation of needing to compare it against a new line of hardware that's about to hit the market, but rerunning your data all the time, just because you theoretically could, doesn't seem very productive
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Aug 15, 2023 10:40
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VostokProgram posted:ffs it's because more recent drivers might have affected previously measured parts Thanks for the newsflash but we all know about driver revisions. GN and HUB already do this for components like Intel GPUs. I'm referring to the rhetoric of the lab guy in the video. Retesting constantly is a giant waste of resources since you're likely to get results within the margin of error. Boasting about retesting everything is not just foolish but it seems designed to make it sound like you're solving a problem that doesn't really exist. Linus has more money than sense and this is one more example.
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Aug 15, 2023 11:30
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Does anyone have any sense of how much they grew in the pandemic and whether this has now slowed along with the rest of the tech industry? Part of me wonders whether they had this huge windfall of channel growth as people were in quarantine (and the whole being at home with extra cash/part scarcity combo) which was when they made all these decisions to go big, which is now proving unsustainable as engagement dips back to pre-covid levels forcing them to put out a huge amount of sub-par content to keep things ticking along. Or have they maintained their growth?
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Aug 15, 2023 11:38
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Branch Nvidian posted:I'm still convinced Linus wanted GN's slice of the market and Steve turned down a buyout, so Linus decided to try to compete and push GN out, but since Linus is just a clown, he has no idea how to actually do it. I have no evidence of this happening, but it's my personal conspiracy theory. Mooktastical posted:I disagree with you on that. Linus basically tried that to defend the myriad of methodological fuckups Steve pointed out as basically, 'we're still new at this, it's ~growing pains~'. The thing is, if you're producing a video that you know for a fact is built on flawed data, and you decide to publish it anyway, that goes beyond simple stupidity. I could entertain it if every single case was something where they'd only realized there was a mistake after somebody pointed it out or w/e, especially if they'd done the needful and taken said content down and issued a correction in its place or something, but that apparently wasn't always the case. Stupidity would be admitting that you forgot to take the tape off of the mouse, malice is blaming the manufacturer for not making the instructions to remove that tape clear enough. Ditto for the Billet Labs thing. Misrepresenting the product and then having the balls to double down on that misrepresentation while tacitly admitting that performance is apparently irrelevant is pure loving malice to me. I'm still convinced it's entirely just a branding exercise, because something can't be a real laboratory if it doesn't try to follow standards of scientific rigor - and it's very clear they don't. Romes128 posted:whoever bought the prototype should send it to steve for testing. gradenko_2000 posted:Having watched the video, one of the bits that stood out to me was this segment where LTT was reviewing the Ryzen 7950X, and from the clip that was cut out, it looked like they were trying to match AMD's own findings, and then regretting that they couldn't because then it meant that they'd have to give it a negative evaluation when compared to all other reviewers. It was completely bizarre, because that's utter nonsense when you're trying to review a thing. It seems telling that they're perfectly fine publishing false positives, but aren't fine publishing false negatives.
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Aug 15, 2023 11:51
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It has to be a boldfaced lie, anyway. With their production schedule, I doubt they could afford the man-hours. Edit: this was in response to re-testing all hardware every time
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Aug 15, 2023 11:53
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Tuxedo Gin posted:It has to be a boldfaced lie, anyway. With their production schedule, I doubt they could afford the man-hours. I think it's largely the goal, actually. The point is that they're trying to massively cut down on the amount of manhours the process takes by automating everything, and they're developing entirely new tools to do so.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:04
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Another notable difference between the Linus-style entertainment channels and Gamers Nexus is that GN hires people with real world expertise. I think Patrick Stone is an actual electrical engineer, which explains his knowledge in testing things like power supplies. Is there anything comparable at LTT? The on-camera personalities come across as random 20 to 30 somethings who can look and sound decent reading a script but barely know what they're talking about. Hopefully the staff members behind the scenes aren't so clueless.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:05
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They seem to run their channel a lot like BuzzFeed Have they hired any people from there to run things? If they have 120 employees it would be cool to see more of them more often, or some stuff from around the office. When I watched them a few years ago that was p. enjoyable non-tech content
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Aug 15, 2023 12:12
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Former Human posted:Another notable difference between the Linus-style entertainment channels and Gamers Nexus is that GN hires people with real world expertise. I think Patrick Stone is an actual electrical engineer, which explains his knowledge in testing things like power supplies. Emily might have been the closest they had. 
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Aug 15, 2023 12:17
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Astroid posted:They seem to run their channel a lot like BuzzFeed A lot of people might work in content creation but absolutely do not want to be on camera, for lots of reasons, bust mostly considering how pcmasterrace nerds run the gamut from parasocially creepy right through to actually threatening.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:19
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Former Human posted:Another notable difference between the Linus-style entertainment channels and Gamers Nexus is that GN hires people with real world expertise. I think Patrick Stone is an actual electrical engineer, which explains his knowledge in testing things like power supplies. Kyle and Dan have been on camera a few times and have some kind of engineering backgrounds. Some of the people who they've hired for their labs venture seem quite talented as well. The guy running was an editor at Anandtech back during that site's heyday. So it's not like they completely lack talent, but their actual talented or experienced staff members aren't the ones writing the scripts or editing the videos, which are the parts where errors are most likely to find their way into a video. And they don't seem to have any real QC process either. They're running a huge organization with a lot of talented people who are only barely involved in the actual money-making part of the business, while the video production pipeline seems horribly rushed with no oversight.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:21
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The guys doing the crazy hardware mods for Linus have massive "engineering grad student" energy.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:23
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I think it's largely the goal, actually. The point is that they're trying to massively cut down on the amount of manhours the process takes by automating everything, and they're developing entirely new tools to do so. Yeah that's definitely gonna work out well for them.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:31
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Vir posted:At least those stuffy TV and film unions have strict rules about who can claim a director or writer credit. In that business they give "executive producer" credits to the bigwigs, and that might better describe Linus' role here. Or "editor in charge" perhaps. There's no YouTuber union to make sure that the actual creative person gets credit - that's all up to the contracts at LMG, I guess. Fragrag posted:I did a quick skim of recent LTT videos and I noticed that for every single one of them Linus is the Director/Producer which is just absolutely insane. There's not even any assistant producers on the staff roster. That means there is no oversight from research/testing, writing, filming and editing phases. Ostensibly that could be the writer but it seems they're swamped while also occasionally being pulled into co-host duties. No extra pair of eyes to go "These results from the lab are kinda weird, we need to omit that" . gradenko_2000 posted:and like, not to endorse or defend JayzTwoCents, but his channel was in a similar position with the RTX 4060Ti review, where they were positive on it when everyone else wasn't, and he took down the review entirely.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:34
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The Grumbles posted:A lot of people might work in content creation but absolutely do not want to be on camera, for lots of reasons, bust mostly considering how pcmasterrace nerds run the gamut from parasocially creepy right through to actually threatening. Understandable, but it feels like they've been filtering who gets on camera more than needed. That's better than expecting everyone to be able to show up in a video, so filming in office locations is probs not possible anymore.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:35
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HU has a bit of response, but don't really say much (I only watched this abridged version). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcSkrkXd2H0 Tim is fairly critical, Steve a little more forgiving. Kind of feels like he doesn't want to step on anyone's toes, but maybe I'm misjudging him.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:40
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is ian lurking this thread or something? https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1691415074655571968 if so, show yourself, coward (i understand his point, and i don't think having some automation is bad when it makes a tedious or time consuming job go faster. but 100% automation is probably not going to work as well as lmg hopes)
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Aug 15, 2023 12:49
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:is ian lurking this thread or something? It doesn't matter if they get the automation right or not - Tech Jesus spent a fair amount of time proving that they don't have anyone who can interpret the data and spot aberrant results.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:57
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:is ian lurking this thread or something? I was Twitter slapfighting with him earlier today about him claiming the first 10 minutes of GN's video was subjective, then refusing to say what was subjective about it. He's a moron.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:00
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i also don't see tech channels ever using any actual automation for making the actual graphs; it's just going to get hamhandedly copypasted by some graphic designer into photoshop or illustrator at the end of the day, which is quite the bottleneck for "automated testing" e: in case this didn’t already get posted: https://x.com/buildzoid1/status/1691251880960147456 kliras fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 13:01
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:is ian lurking this thread or something? Okay, I’ve been found. It’s me, I am Dr. Ian.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:15
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Mokotow posted:Okay, I’ve been found. It’s me, I am Dr. Ian. blyat
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Aug 15, 2023 13:16
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I find people with non-medical degrees boasting with their doctor title sketchy, anyway.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm still workshopping which side RandomGaminginHD and PhilsComputerLab are going to fall on Randomgaminghd is a brexit lover, when I had a twitter I saw him liking stuff about defunding the nhs and a bunch of other crappy stuff which made me instantly unfollow him. Although it tracks because he's from rural kent
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Aug 15, 2023 13:17
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it's true that automation is used a lot of the time, and as Tuxedo Gin pointed out, automation is how you can afford to "re-run the tests every single time" while keeping the workload manageable but the problem isn't that they're using automation at all, or even lots of automation - the problem is that without a good production process in place, the ability to run lots of tests with little manpower is useless; you'd just be repeating mistakes and still have no eyes to catch them EDIT: track day bro! posted:Randomgaminghd is a brexit lover, when I had a twitter I saw him liking stuff about defunding the nhs and a bunch of other crappy stuff which made me instantly unfollow him. Although it tracks because he's from rural kent holy smokes 
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Aug 15, 2023 13:21
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track day bro! posted:Randomgaminghd is a brexit lover, when I had a twitter I saw him liking stuff about defunding the nhs and a bunch of other crappy stuff which made me instantly unfollow him. Although it tracks because he's from rural kent lol
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Aug 15, 2023 13:34
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That tracks, dude has been putting himself in thumbnails recently and he looks like someone who's never been outside.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:37
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Rinkles posted:HU has a bit of response, but don't really say much (I only watched this abridged version). Here's a link to their new podcast, since it hasn't shown up in Pocket Casts yet: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/the-hardware-unboxed-podcast They picked a good day to record their first podcast episode!
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Aug 15, 2023 13:50
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Astroid posted:Understandable, but it feels like they've been filtering who gets on camera more than needed. I think that's maybe overestimating just how many people in creative industries also want to be audience-facing, and how specific the skillset is to be in that role. Most people are not good presenting to an audience on camera. It's really, really difficult.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:53
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:is ian lurking this thread or something? hmmm, Doctor Video Games, I only see one person ITT who insists on putting their non-medical degree in front of their name
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