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nine-gear crow posted:"The Enterprise-G got blown up so we put the F back into service and we'll just make a new G later. In the meanwhile, here's the new USS Titan-B, which actually looks like the real Titan design everyone knows and loves by now. We're very sorry." What were the differences between the Titan designs? Is the one people like from Star Trek Online?
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Aug 15, 2023 16:31
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The original Luna-Class Titian design was created for the Star Trek book relaunch in a fan contest about 20 years ago. It was a very good design and so became very popular, featuring in not just the novels but other media, comic books, videogames (including Star Trek Online), models, etc, and was very well established.   However, all that was kinda rendered gone when the old Trek EU was reset when Picard started - until the finale of Lower Decks season 1, when the Titan changed into the rescue as it's old Luna-Class self, resurrecting the old design that all the fans who followed the EU remembered and establishing it as full-blown on-screen canon. This made lots of people feel very warm and fuzzy. https://i.imgur.com/Ec702kK.mp4 Other members of the class then went on to appear in live action form in the fleet in Picard Season 2, so it was all getting very well established. Then when Picard season 3 came out, the season 3 showrunner wanted to do a show on the Titan but he liked movie era designs instead. Lower Decks had made the old one canon, so what he did was say 'oh yeah it used to look like that but then it got refit to look like this:'  A totally different design that doesn't really fit the era and also a lot of the features don't mesh together that well, because it's just a few tweaks to a fan design that's designed for the The Motion Picture era, the Shangri-La class:  (Personally I think the Shangri-La looks so much better than the Titan, all the changes they did to make it more modern messed it up) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 16:41
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It’s still extremely hilarious that Matalas is supposedly this Trek mega-nerd but he somehow doesn’t understand what a refit actually is.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:57
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Its so great how the tng continuation was made by someone that only likes wrath of khan.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:58
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god that looks cool
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Aug 15, 2023 17:00
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CLAM DOWN posted:god that looks cool There are so many little details that work much better. And the overall look works way better with the more deco-ish stylings of the movie era. Like, the engine mount on the Shangri-La is a single curve surface with lines that gives the impression of a force pushing in motion, but on the Titan-A the surface is broken up and jagged so the motion lines are gone. The Titan-A made the side saucer cutouts extra impulse engines of a different type, so multiple different red glow engines of very different design draw the eye and then the different looks (one strips, one vents) confuses it. Instead of the side engines the whatever they are at the back of the saucer cutouts on the Shangri-La are little thingy tapers that point backwards, again giving the impression of motion and also helping that cutout area end more gracefully. The huge bussards on the Titan-A looming above the top of the design are overwhelming from a lot of angles, dragging the eye away from the ship (especially with the two bulbs very visible inside of each one adding detail there for you to focus on) I could go on. Anyway here's a cool clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQAjj-WSdJQ MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 17:05
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It's more efficient to vent the impulse engines directly into the Bussard collectors
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Aug 15, 2023 17:08
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Like there's still TMP era ships going around in the TNG era, if he just had to have a TMP design why couldn't it have been you know a proper refit, an old hull with new internals, instead of this weird new ship that looks old.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:17
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Because he wanted it to be the Titan because Riker's ship is cool and it was that way in the fanfic he wrote when he was 12
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Aug 15, 2023 17:22
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s still extremely hilarious that Matalas is supposedly this Trek mega-nerd but he somehow doesn’t understand what a refit actually is. I mean, refits in Star Trek have always been more than 'we upgraded the computer, adjusted the Torpedo tubes to accommodate the new Mark XXIV cases, and installed a new console to monitor the new sensor arrays we built in.' The Connie refit resulted in bigger, and physically reshaped, ships, for example.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:30
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I 100% believe that Matalas either didn't know or care that the Titan had an established look already, he just wanted to take a fan-design he liked. Like the only line that says that the Titan has been refit was a obvious ADR'd line from Riker that was played over a shot of the ship. So you have a ship that's been through such an extensive refit that it got designated the Titan-A, but apparently it's still mostly the same ship? It makes no sense, so you have to explain it out of universe with additional material. Apparently it got a refit like that because the Titan got super hosed up and needed extensive repairs and probably would have been scrapped, but the Synth attack on Utopia Planitia means that the Federation can't make many new ships and have to refit things or something? So they took the guts of the Titan and stuck it in a new shell, because that makes sense. 
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Aug 15, 2023 17:30
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Yeah from what I understand that was basically Matalis going 'whatever I don't care make it work' and Dave Blass coming up with the best wank he could to explain how the Titan completely changed to a totally different ship. The designs are so completely different you couldn't even explain it with a TMP style refit so he had to come up with 'oh they transplanted bits'.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 17:33
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Boxturret posted:Its so great how the tng continuation was made by someone that only likes wrath of khan. I want to make WoK references, pastiches, nods and winks illegal. So drat tired of it.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:34
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Clouseau posted:I want to make WoK references, pastiches, nods and winks illegal. So drat tired of it. Why, Bones, you know that's illegal.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:03
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I don't really mind the Constitution-III redesign of the Shangri-La, but lore/story wise it being the Titan drives me nuts. You could go through all the reasons why it wasn't a good choice but the simplest thing is that Matalas helpfully opened his mouth and said "yeah it was always going to be my Enterprise from the beginning, someone else will make a proper new Titan that's a new Luna-class, a Titan-B", what more can you say when the dude responsible considers his Titan a placeholder rather than a 'proper' one?
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Aug 15, 2023 18:04
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Star Trek: Legacy is this generation's Assignment: Earth - a show which someone used the end of a Star Trek season to try and shill into existence, only for it to fall on stony ground and germinate nothing.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:10
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Veotax posted:I 100% believe that Matalas either didn't know or care that the Titan had an established look already, he just wanted to take a fan-design he liked. I think it's this. "Hey Terry, there's already a design for the Titan that's been around for like 20 years and we actually just made it canon on the other show. We've even put a couple of them into shots on our show so you can just barely pick them out if you're a huge nerd with a giant 4K TV." "Okay, cool. Now use the design I want you to use or you're fired."
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Aug 15, 2023 18:13
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Warthur posted:Star Trek: Legacy is this generation's Assignment: Earth - a show which someone used the end of a Star Trek season to try and shill into existence, only for it to fall on stony ground and germinate nothing. The irony that Picard Season 2 spent an unsmall amount of its 10 hour runtime wrapping up some of Assignment: Earth's dangling plot tendrils instead of actually telling a cohesive story itself. It's gonna be fascinating to see just how #StarTrekLegacy shakes out if it does or doesn't come to pass now that we've got dueling Trusted Sources™ inside the thread each saying wildly different things about what's going on inside Trek World right now so who knows what to believe at the moment.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:19
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MikeJF posted:Set it in the lovely part of Enterprise-J City. Deflector lookin like the grill on the Mitsuoka Orochi  CPColin posted:It's more efficient to vent the impulse engines directly into the Bussard collectors A shameful starship
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Aug 15, 2023 19:35
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Warthur posted:Star Trek: Legacy is this generation's Assignment: Earth - a show which someone used the end of a Star Trek season to try and shill into existence, only for it to fall on stony ground and germinate nothing. Except I would genuinely have enjoyed an Assignment: Earth show if it had actually happened in the 60s. Prime 60s weirdo Roddenberry doing a barely disguised James Bond/Doctor Who/Get Smart riff? Absolutely, let’s see that train wreck.
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Aug 15, 2023 19:44
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Except I would genuinely have enjoyed an Assignment: Earth show if it had actually happened in the 60s. It's basically "Doctor Who, but the Doctor is W. Mark Felt."
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Aug 15, 2023 19:53
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So I know I’m literally months behind the curve but I finally got around to watching the last few episodes of Picard season 3, and, uh, I have questions. Like, are they gonna address in future series how they just killed off practically everyone in Starfleet leadership? I know the answer is almost certainly not, but I was trying to do the napkin math on everyone under 25 turning on everyone older on every ship in the fleet, and even assuming some of those older folks bunkered up on their respective ships and waiting out the Borgification, at a glance there’s gotta be, what, 50% of Starfleet over 25, and a real good portion of that are now dead in the mutinies? And of those dead people, they’re all the senior officers and whatnot, even with the young people restored that’s leaving the Federation in complete shambles! Hope the Cardassians or whoever haven’t managed to rebuild since the end of the Dominion war or they’re gonna make a play for all the Federation easy pickings in the aftermath.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:13
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I don't think anyone cares about that era of Star Trek anymore. I doubt Lower Decks will last long enough to get there.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:18
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Fortunately none of the Cali classes were there, so they'll be assuming the leadership.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:20
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Thaddius the Large posted:So I know I’m literally months behind the curve but I finally got around to watching the last few episodes of Picard season 3, and, uh, I have questions. Like, are they gonna address in future series how they just killed off practically everyone in Starfleet leadership? I know the answer is almost certainly not, but I was trying to do the napkin math on everyone under 25 turning on everyone older on every ship in the fleet, and even assuming some of those older folks bunkered up on their respective ships and waiting out the Borgification, at a glance there’s gotta be, what, 50% of Starfleet over 25, and a real good portion of that are now dead in the mutinies? And of those dead people, they’re all the senior officers and whatnot, even with the young people restored that’s leaving the Federation in complete shambles! Hope the Cardassians or whoever haven’t managed to rebuild since the end of the Dominion war or they’re gonna make a play for all the Federation easy pickings in the aftermath. Matalas doesn't work for Paramount anymore so the short answer is "no it will not be addressed". A bit longer answer is that Matalas walked back that "entire fleet" thing saying that its just the local fleets participating to the show which got affected, not everyone. Because it dawned to him on Twitter of all places that he accidentally killed characters that weren't supposed to die that day and had to come up with something for them to appear on his follow-up show that will never happen. No, really.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:21
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Beckett Mariner is 4 years too old to have caught the woke mind virus
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Aug 15, 2023 20:23
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This gives also a pretty good idea how skillful and professional showrunner and writer M'talas was. Cannot even follow the storylines of his own show consistently, and does not think the implications any further than the end of the current episode.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:30
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Remember when they ended Picard by making ensign Jack a special counsellor to the captain to ogle in his fancy seat. Good times.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:41
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Der Kyhe posted:This gives also a pretty good idea how skillful and professional showrunner and writer M'talas was. Cannot even follow the storylines of his own show consistently, and does not think the implications any further than the end of the current episode. Crazy when you think someone like JMS wrote Babylon 5 not only for the 5 year timeline he planned out but considered... "What was this place like 100 years in the past... what about 100 years in the future.... a thousand even... maybe a mill..."
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Aug 15, 2023 20:42
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Der Kyhe posted:Matalas doesn't work for Paramount anymore so the short answer is "no it will not be addressed". Now only that the showrunners of OTHER SHOWS like Prodigy and Lower Decks had to take to the Twooters to tell everyone that their characters were all still alive and didn't get either effected by the woke mind virus or killed by any of the woke hivemind youngs during the Frontier Day Massacre. But yeah that moment of someone asking Terry "Hey, so did Elnor die when the Excelsior blew up?" and him going in real time "....OH SHI" was amazing. Burning_Monk posted:Crazy when you think someone like JMS wrote Babylon 5 not only for the 5 year timeline he planned out but considered... "What was this place like 100 years in the past... what about 100 years in the future.... a thousand even... maybe a mill..." Some writers are capable of thinking four dimensionally. JMS can. Terry Matalas can't. Which is ironic considering the man made two whole time travel shows between 12 Monkeys and Picard Season 2(allegedly).
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Aug 15, 2023 20:55
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It's been 24 years since Deep Space Nine ended and we still haven't had a Star Trek show that was to the TOS as TNG was to the original. Another crew, moving forward the timeline. And no, the time-travel crew from before the TOS era in the so-far-in-the-future-it-won't-be-canon gambit of Discovery doesn't count.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:58
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Der Kyhe posted:Matalas doesn't work for Paramount anymore so the short answer is "no it will not be addressed". I mean he even walked back Ro's death on Twitter so who knows what the gently caress this guy is thinking
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Aug 15, 2023 21:04
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Makes sense (relatively speaking), I appreciate the behind the scenes info. Honestly I don’t mind memory-holing silliness in Star Trek, like how many god aliens have we met and forgotten about over the years now, but this whole thing definitely seemed like a big one, especially given modern focuses on maintaining some sense of vague continuity (or BRAND SYNERGY!) between shows. Overall it was definitely a real dumb end to the series but I still had fun, it was a blast seeing the old crew together again, Shaw was a good character who died too soon, and worst case I can just stick this in the same bin as when the TNG Enterprise visited the Space Africa planet, or the Space Irish, or the Space Ambiguously Native American planet. Edit: Professor Beetus posted:I mean he even walked back Ro's death on Twitter so who knows what the gently caress this guy is thinking Wait, what? How is she supposed to have not been sploded, magic last minute transport to a previously undetected ship or what?
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Aug 15, 2023 21:05
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Turkish Star Trek is more canon than Disco will ever be.
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Aug 15, 2023 21:05
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Professor Beetus posted:I mean he even walked back Ro's death on Twitter so who knows what the gently caress this guy is thinking And then walked back Shelby and Shaw's deaths on Reddit.
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Aug 15, 2023 21:08
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Again, unless you saw them decapitated on screen they lived, even if they were decapitated there's a 50% chance that was a clone.
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Aug 15, 2023 21:10
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Thaddius the Large posted:especially given modern focuses on maintaining some sense of vague continuity (or BRAND SYNERGY!) between shows. IMHO the canon, as in, "trying to maintain some consistency and coherence over the timeline, basic designs, and events over all shows and movies depicting the 50+ years old franchise even if it means using alternative timelines and some memoryholing" is the thing that makes Star Trek unlike basically all other scifi franchises where full rewrites and reboots just keep happening all the time. With Star Wars being the other obvious one of course. If you cannot make your new show to work within the existing canon, or follow the timeline, or want to redesign or rewrite everything, then maybe do not do a Star Trek show.
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Aug 15, 2023 21:12
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Thaddius the Large posted:Wait, what? How is she supposed to have not been sploded, magic last minute transport to a previously undetected ship or what? There was apparently an entire cut plot line where Ro managed to beam back over to the Intrepid using her Maquis spy skills and Picard had to lead a rescue operation to save her and the non-Changeling'd crew and there was a big shoot 'em up action sequence in the Interpid's version of the Titan laser tag hallway with Picard and Ro fighting side-by-side to take back the bridge and they had to cut it because they wasted all their budget on the D-Bridge and getting the TNG crew back that they couldn't afford Michelle Forbes for more than a day of shooting. E: take this with a grain of salt, this is probably just Matalas talking out of his rear end to try and save face because both his seasons of Picard were massive sloppy shitshows behind the scenes production-wise. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 21:15
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Boxturret posted:Again, unless you saw them decapitated on screen they lived, even if they were decapitated there's a 50% chance that was a clone. like Icheb, right? right?? 
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Aug 15, 2023 21:16
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Der Kyhe posted:IMHO the canon, as in, "trying to maintain some consistency and coherence over the timeline, basic designs, I always loved the way that you could basically just look at a shot of a Star Trek you'd never seen or a ship you'd never seen and be able to place it in centuries of history just by the look and vibe. It's the only big franchise that had whole fairly consistent design periods and history of style and visual language stretching over many generations. Star Wars is always just Star Wars, it always looks pretty much the same no matter when.
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Aug 15, 2023 21:21
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