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And they literally just could have had Spike say a bigger number in that one speech. Make it 2 years or something!
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Aug 13, 2023 06:28
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Pan Dulce posted:Willow and Tara have that typical lesbian relationship in TV undertone where their love seems ageless like they've been together for YEARS and have lived together since then too. 
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Aug 13, 2023 09:41
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Filox posted:Well, Hellmouth. Maybe the trades have had a lot of people eaten. Imagining Xander getting an award from his boss for becoming the longest tenured employee with the company at 5 months.
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Aug 13, 2023 13:57
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Medullah posted:Imagining Xander getting an award from his boss for becoming the longest tenured employee with the company at 5 months. "We here at Johnson Construction are honored to give Alexander Harris our Golden Ankh Award for showing up to work and otherwise not mysteriously becoming a bloodless corpse for a full five months in a row!"
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Aug 13, 2023 15:07
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Weird how the previous two Golden Ankhers were fit young dudes that Suddenly Had Age-Related illnesses but the foreman seemed to get more virile after, but I'm sure that's just bad luck, Harris!
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Aug 13, 2023 18:11
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Finished my Angel rewatch, and this time I really noticed how God-drat fast they sprint towards that end, basically two episodes and a couple smaller pieces sprinkled in earlier (like Angel giving the baby to the Fell.) Guessing the sudden cancellation notice is what made them have to wrap it up all quick, because it's REALLY bizarre that everyone (both his friends and the Circle) all believe that in the span of a couple months he TOTALLY went evil and is DEFINTELY joining the Circle, and not trying to take them down. At the very least, he should have pretended he DID change back to Angelus, because other than trying to "gotcha" him by forcing him to sign away his Shanshu rights, they really didn't do much to test he was evil. I mean...I guess they had him kill Drogan, and he made it LOOK like he had Fred killed, but still odd they believed that. Especially since he didn't get anything out of it? The point of that season was (sort of) the old adage that was that "Power corrupts" but if he orchestrated Fred's death, to what end? What power did The Circle think he gained by doing that? The Circle didn't seem to be "evil for evil's sake", so simply killing your good friend JuST BECAUSE doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd care about. But man, if that had another season where Angel slowly started to be (at least appear) like he WAS getting more corrupt from running WR&M? It really would be a lot more believable. And would draw a nice corollary to season 2 when he felt he lost his purpose.
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Aug 14, 2023 17:56
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If my memory is right, they were told during Smile Time, the puppet episode which is episode 14 of 22 so very quick. The next couple of episodes they probably couldn't change much as would of been in pre-production. Then race to the finish over 3-4 episodes. Was the planned season finale/cliffhanger Angel joining the circle?
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Aug 14, 2023 18:19
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I don't think "planned" and "Circle" are words that should appear in the same sentence. It's very clearly an idea they came up with while scrambling to write the series finale. They couldn't thematically have The Gang defeat W&H, so they just threw together "uhhhh what if every monster of the week from this season were part of a secret society, does that work".
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Aug 14, 2023 18:27
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Yeah that makes more sense. I was thinking Angel joins the Circle several episodes before but it is episode 21/22 he joins so making it the last episode of the season doesn't change much for pacing. I guesing Illyria was the big bad as that story properly starts to cover the last third of the season like most big bads do in Buffy/Angel?
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Aug 14, 2023 18:38
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DrBouvenstein posted:Finished my Angel rewatch, and this time I really noticed how God-drat fast they sprint towards that end, basically two episodes and a couple smaller pieces sprinkled in earlier (like Angel giving the baby to the Fell.)
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Aug 14, 2023 22:03
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Random Thought: One unique strength of the early seasons for me is the library is the best base of operations by far. Giles' apartment, the Magic Box, and Buffy's house just never could replace the library as the definitive Scooby Meeting Spot. Also god I love Angel's opening music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4FvBymFV4s
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Aug 14, 2023 23:29
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For the record though, Giles’ actually looks like a really nice place. Full kitchen with loads of counter space? Mezzanine bedroom? Private motherfucking patio? That’s a primo bachelor pad. Shame it’s always full of teens.
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Aug 14, 2023 23:47
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I only just finished Buffy for the first time about a week ago and I gotta say, season 6 probably hit me the hardest. I can see why it would be divisive for the fandom, especially during actual broadcast, but it really does resonate for anyone who's ever struggled with major depression, mental illness and/or toxic/abusive relationships. The addiction plotline is maybe the weakest aspect for me in 2023 though; like I can buy Willow eventually getting too high on her own supply (that conversation she has with Giles after Buffy's resurrection is extremely foreboding) but the actual process felt rushed. As somebody who watches shows more for character studies than overall plot/"lore" I thought the final season really delivered on those. Selfless and Conversations With Dead People were highlights for that especially. It's just a shame it kind of came at the expense of developing tertiary stuff like the potentials, who, tbh, I had a really hard time caring about on any level  Also, as iconic as Spike's outfit through the series was, I feel like his final confrontation with Wood would've landed better if he'd just given him the drat trenchcoat back or left it there. I mean it's the least he could do for the guy as a final act of atonement or something. Just feels like a missed opportunity to me  Rochallor posted:having just finished a rewatch of Mad Men, oh my god Vincent Kartheiser is a baby. Especially given how each season he shaved back his hair more to simulate a receding hairline. It is super amusing to me just how much incidental cast overlap happens between Mad Men and the Buffyverse. I mean everybody knows about Pete/Connor but you've also got Jonathan playing that completely mid copywriter-turned-LA shill Danny in the later seasons, not to mention this minute long cameo of Christina Hendricks as a barmaid on Angel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCDbCRtQW0
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Aug 15, 2023 00:09
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Blood Nightmaster posted:I only just finished Buffy for the first time about a week ago and I gotta say, season 6 probably hit me the hardest. I can see why it would be divisive for the fandom, especially during actual broadcast, but it really does resonate for anyone who's ever struggled with major depression, mental illness and/or toxic/abusive relationships. The addiction plotline is maybe the weakest aspect for me in 2023 though; like I can buy Willow eventually getting too high on her own supply (that conversation she has with Giles after Buffy's resurrection is extremely foreboding) but the actual process felt rushed. Completely agree with your a Season Six assessment. As someone who was undergoing depression when I first watched it, it hit like a Mack truck. I understood Buffy. I assume though, an addict might get Willow too, so I hesitate to say it's a weak part of the season. As for the potentials, I truly only remember Kennedy, Rhona, and Felicia Day. Day's character felt like a S1 Willow with physical power, so I automatically liked her. But I hate hate HATE that they made the minority slayers be the most vocal critics of Buffy. I still get pissed at Rhona's, "Ding dong" jibe. I also can't stand bratty Kennedy, even bearing in mind that we may not like her because she's replacing Tara. I don't see it that way. Willow should be able to heal with someone new. It'd just be nice if she wasn't a heinous girl. Completely also concur about the trench coat. It's his trophy for killing a Slayer, for being powerful and evil. But he's supposed to have changed. True change would have been getting rid of his Linus blanket of a coat. They kinda tried by giving him the tight blue shirt. But it didn't work. In fact, they outright say he can only truly fight if he's also a monster and wears the coat. I hate that undertone. Not to mention they probably only kept it because he looks cool with it. Shallow reason.
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Aug 15, 2023 00:44
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Slavik posted:If my memory is right, they were told during Smile Time, the puppet episode which is episode 14 of 22 so very quick. It was announced during the week Smile Time was airing. So they had even less time.
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Aug 15, 2023 00:51
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We got to the episode of S3 where Trick dies. Kinda disappointing they chose to do that. Not only because there are very few black characters in Buffy, but he was legit fun. He played a great straight man to the Mayor and the concept of a vampire who isn't stuck in the era they died in and is willing to use an uzi is intruiging. Can you imagine Faith having to play off of working with the Mayor and Trick? Jealousy aside, the dynamics of an evil Slayer working with and evil vampire without a soul would have been an interesting extra foil with Buffy and Faith, Buffy having worked with Spike. Plus, older father figure, Slayer, and vampire? Dark Scoobies.
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Aug 15, 2023 01:04
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kilus aof posted:It was announced during the week Smile Time was airing. So they had even less time. Yeah, they found out after/during Shells.
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Aug 15, 2023 01:12
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Blood Nightmaster posted:The addiction plotline is maybe the weakest aspect for me in 2023 though; like I can buy Willow eventually getting too high on her own supply (that conversation she has with Giles after Buffy's resurrection is extremely foreboding) but the actual process felt rushed. That plot thread basically torched magic as a concept for me in Buffy. In my memory they basically drop the drug addiction metaphor into the middle of a story that's really about Willow gaslighting and not respecting the autonomy of Tara and the gang, and they just mix it all up and treat it like the same thing. Rack and his magic drug den are so sloppily conceived too. The idea that Amy's old connect would have poo poo that blows Willow's mind seems so silly. It felt like a drug metaphor plot chopped out of a show for much younger viewers.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:31
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Randallteal posted:That plot thread basically torched magic as a concept for me in Buffy. In my memory they basically drop the drug addiction metaphor into the middle of a story that's really about Willow gaslighting and not respecting the autonomy of Tara and the gang, and they just mix it all up and treat it like the same thing. Rack and his magic drug den are so sloppily conceived too. The idea that Amy's old connect would have poo poo that blows Willow's mind seems so silly. It felt like a drug metaphor plot chopped out of a show for much younger viewers. Because it gives Willow a "moral out" perhaps. Otherwise she's just a bad person who hurt the most important people in her life. For new fans and defenders of S6, what do you think of Willow after this season? Do you forgive her, think she deserves Tara, etc.? Do you feel it cheapened the incredible bond she had with Buffy and Giles for years until this season? In fact, that was omething I wanted to post about but forgot. Buffy and Giles' parental relationship is one of the best aspects of Buffy to me. But watching Giles leave at the start of S6 reminded me how close he and Willow are. I wanna say some trivia buff pointed out to me S2 or S3 Willow had a picture of Giles in her locker. It's a lot more lowkey than with Buffy but the two of them clearly have some kind of special bond.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:42
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NikkolasKing posted:Because it gives Willow a "moral out" perhaps. Otherwise she's just a bad person who hurt the most important people in her life. I kind of got the feeling before S2 that she likes things her way. It makes the Will Be Done spell seem reasonable. So her having troubles in a relationship and automatically taking the selfish, easy way out and erasing the problem was the next logical step. I was innured to not like her before because of the hints. Once she actually follows through and erases everyone's thoughts? After Tara was already hurt mentally by Glory? Ugh. And to have sex under that spell? Disgusting. Her hurting Dawn while up in a high cloud also made it worse. Not to mention once her love dies, she repeats her mistake and tries to raise Tara. Then, to top it all off, she tries to kill everyone because her love is gone. Selfish and self-centered. It's her negative trait.
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Aug 15, 2023 04:27
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Randallteal posted:That plot thread basically torched magic as a concept for me in Buffy. In my memory they basically drop the drug addiction metaphor into the middle of a story that's really about Willow gaslighting and not respecting the autonomy of Tara and the gang, and they just mix it all up and treat it like the same thing. Rack and his magic drug den are so sloppily conceived too. The idea that Amy's old connect would have poo poo that blows Willow's mind seems so silly. It felt like a drug metaphor plot chopped out of a show for much younger viewers. Yeah, watching Season 6 with a group of news and this was the persistent point they made. The way one guy put it was that he thought Willow was ("finally") having her villain arc and then show abandoned it. He was pretty happy he called it come end of season. But he was against Willow since about Dead Man's Party (she's really horrific in that one, but I think he found her vaguely gaslighting and triggering tbh). I agree though, yeah, the drugs arc was a way of them handling material the season was, otherwise, largely unable to handle.
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Aug 15, 2023 05:33
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Having finished season three, I gotta say, Angel primes Buffy into having really lovely relationships. I mean, not one relationship is healthy on the show. Granted, it's a show, so the drama makes the views, but drat. Figures she can't have a decent relationship since she's being created and written by Joss Whedon, who wouldn't know decent if it hit him over the head.
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Aug 15, 2023 09:08
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Pan Dulce posted:Having finished season three, I gotta say, Angel primes Buffy into having really lovely relationships. I mean, not one relationship is healthy on the show. Granted, it's a show, so the drama makes the views, but drat. ...and we know this because figure plenty of decent women have in fact hit him over the head.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:15
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I barely even remember Kennedy, the only one with an actual character, and Felicia Day only stands out when watching it back because she went on to become Felicia Day - she was no more remarkable than any of them at the time. But then there was the English one. The one with the single worst attempt at a London accent ever captured in any recorded medium. I haven't watched S7 in years, but if I close my eyes I can still hear 'NOICE PLACE! BIT BASIC' as clear as the first time I watched it. I'd love to know how many takes it took for Anthony Stewart Head, a man with an actual East London accent, to keep a straight face. S7 started off strongly enough and the writing is all fine, but its quality on any given episode really was inversely correlated with how much screen time was dedicated to the motley crew of oh-poo poo-who-the-gently caress-thought-40-new-characters-is-a-good-idea-gently caress-it-get-anyone-cheap actors that made up the potentials.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:06
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DavidCameronsPig posted:But then there was the English one. The one with the single worst attempt at a London accent ever captured in any recorded medium. I haven't watched S7 in years, but if I close my eyes I can still hear 'NOICE PLACE! BIT BASIC' as clear as the first time I watched it. I'd love to know how many takes it took for Anthony Stewart Head, a man with an actual East London accent, to keep a straight face. No idea how true it is but on the Buffy subreddit they were just talking about Head begging to coach Marsters in a proper English accent. The show seems pretty infamous for its accents what with Boreanaz's Irish at the top and working your way down from there.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:14
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The main potential I remember is Amanda cause she had an entire episode around her being a potential instead of Dawn and it had that nice scene at the end between Dawn and Xander (though now weird cause of what they did in the comics which I try and ignore mostly but that is one of the things I have heard about). Then she plays D&D with the gang in the finale before getting her neck snapped unceremoniously cause they felt they still needed to show the stakes at that point for no real reason when they'd shown the plan working already basically.
thebardyspoon fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 22:19
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I remember the Buffy thread downright hating Kennedy at the time, but that's about it for my recollections.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:36
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loving everybody hated Kennedy. Online, offline, in all universes but the shrimp one.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:46
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thebardyspoon posted:(though now weird cause of what they did in the comics which I try and ignore mostly but that is one of the things I have heard about). Another reason killing Anya was dumb. It led to that.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:47
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I remember the Buffy thread downright hating Kennedy at the time, but that's about it for my recollections. LividLiquid posted:loving everybody hated Kennedy. Online, offline, in all universes but the shrimp one. They still do hate her. She replaced one of the most beloved characters in the series, got an insta-hook up with a main character, and is part of the generally weak S7 writing. Also she's one of the Potentials leading the charge to kick Buffy out of her own house. Will basically sides with this girl she's known for five minutes over her best friend for seven years.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W54l3nHmw-Q&ab_channel=JohannaK%C3%BCnstler
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Aug 16, 2023 00:05
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Nthing the gently caress Kennedy train, she was completely insufferable. Nevermind almost ending the world, hooking up with her was easily Willow’s biggest crime, I imagine poor Tara doing 50000rpm in her grave knowing that’s who replaced her.NikkolasKing posted:No idea how true it is but on the Buffy subreddit they were just talking about Head begging to coach Marsters in a proper English accent. To be fair, at the time Spike was probably the best stab any seppo had ever made at it. He never got the hang of saying poof correctly though, it was a dead giveaway.
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Aug 16, 2023 00:07
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Sentinel Red posted:To be fair, at the time Spike was probably the best stab any seppo had ever made at it. He never got the hang of saying poof correctly though, it was a dead giveaway. ...how do you say "poof" correctly?
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Aug 16, 2023 01:33
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Pan Dulce posted:...how do you say "poof" correctly? Rhymes with "woof" and not with "youth".
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Aug 16, 2023 02:38
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okay i just rewatched the xander and dawn episode and i know i'm gonna get crucified for this but that was pretty cute
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Aug 19, 2023 09:02
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Sentinel Red posted:To be fair, at the time Spike was probably the best stab any seppo had ever made at it. He never got the hang of saying poof correctly though, it was a dead giveaway. I'm fine with Spike's accent, on the grounds that he's a cosplaying aristocrat who seems to have spent the majority of his vampire period outside the country. Of course he ends up sounding like an American's idea of the lower orders, that's pretty much what he's trying to be. And the one thing he does nail perfectly is the best-ever representation of an English person faking a bad American accent. "Uh, I'm a friend of Xanduuuuur's..."
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Aug 19, 2023 11:38
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Whenever I hear James Marsters or Alexis Denisof speaking in their real voices it sounds like that is the fake one.
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Aug 19, 2023 12:44
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I've been rewatching this show thanks to this thread, just got to Band Candy and it might be my favourite episode  Teenage hooligan Giles is so goddamn good. I wish that Ripper show got made.
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Aug 20, 2023 02:06
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GoutPatrol posted:Whenever I hear James Marsters or Alexis Denisof speaking in their real voices it sounds like that is the fake one. It was wild hearing the audiobook for the Harry Dresden series because Marsters reads them and does an amazing job but you feel like something's missing.
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Aug 20, 2023 02:47
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Dawgstar posted:It was wild hearing the audiobook for the Harry Dresden series because Marsters reads them and does an amazing job but you feel like something's missing. But his voice is so distinctive, you can tell it’s him. That’s how I felt when I heard him in Dragonball Super.
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Aug 20, 2023 07:11
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