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What do you think of the new international distribution deal? This poll is closed. |
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| Hate it |
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12 | 16.90% |
| REALLY hate it |
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16 | 22.54% |
| Hello, my name is Bob Chapek |
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43 | 60.56% |
| Total: | 71 votes | ||
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Comparing DS9 to Torchwood feels wrong
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Aug 15, 2023 09:49
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 14:26 |
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CommonShore posted:Imo doctor who is the strongest when it gives zero fucks about maintaining or creating continuity. I've said it for years and the chibnal era made me more sure of that. It's a transdimensional time travel show. Let poo poo get wild and self contradictory. I'm positive it's an episode somewhere from the Matt Smith run where somebody is freaking out about the implications of time travel and asks something like,"What if I kill my grandfather?" and the Doctor's reaction is just,"....were you planning on killing your grandfather?  Well... don't!" 
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Aug 15, 2023 10:10
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Rochallor posted:And in another story, Orr realizes a building is sentient when they feel their genitals transform into an elevator shaft, which is a sentence I did not think I would ever write. That’s also a sentence that I did not think I would ever read.
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Aug 15, 2023 15:09
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Sounds like somebody found an old Philip Martin script 
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Aug 15, 2023 15:59
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In context it's a thirty second joke, though one sadly lacking a [ding] noise indicating that the elevator has... arrived.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:01
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imagine the muzak
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Aug 15, 2023 16:12
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armpit_enjoyer posted:imagine the muzak Way ahead of you
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Aug 15, 2023 16:21
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Jerusalem posted:I'm positive it's an episode somewhere from the Matt Smith run where somebody is freaking out about the implications of time travel and asks something like,"What if I kill my grandfather?" and the Doctor's reaction is just,"....were you planning on killing your grandfather? The version of that exchange that always stuck in my mind was from Thin Ice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VOr-2K9PN4 Poor Pete 
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Aug 15, 2023 16:36
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Open Source Idiom posted:Naur, I think the argument is that Torchwood is what you get when you mostly can't draw upon continuity. Not so much that as the core conceptual underpinnings and imagery of the show, so no Doctor/no TARDIS. Without the goodwill which comes with the Doctor and the familiar trappings around the Doctor you get RTD wanting us to be very impressed with how cool Jack Harkness is, just like in the mainline show you'd get Moffatt wanting us to be very impressed with how cool River Song or Clara are. The new show is much more caught up in convincing us of how cool the Doctor is too, a lot of the time, but at least if you are a fan of the old show you are primed to agree with that. But I can't stand any of the characters they tried to force me to think was cool, and I grew weary of the new iterations of the Doctor once I noticed how fannish the writing was. Warthur fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 17:49
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Warthur posted:Not so much that as the core conceptual underpinnings and imagery of the show, so no Doctor/no TARDIS. Without the goodwill which comes with the Doctor and the familiar trappings around the Doctor you get RTD wanting us to be very impressed with how cool Jack Harkness is, just like in the mainline show you'd get Moffatt wanting us to be very impressed with how cool River Song or Clara are. This is basically my viewpoint as well. A lot of the time the revival series tends to tell us over and over again how wonderful and amazing and cool the Doctor is (or Rose, or Amy, or Clara, etc.) without actually showing us how wonderful/amazing/cool they are. It's a common failing in fiction: we're expected to believe a character is impressive because the other characters keep talking about it.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:45
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The other thing I don't like about it is that it keeps making the Doctor the ultimate lynchpin the entire cosmos revolves around, which the Doctor never was in the classic series and which makes the universe seem small and lacking in wonder and mystery. Why would the First Doctor have ever needed to leave Gallifrey to explore the universe if he is ultimately the only person of significance in the universe? Given how the new series talks about him sometimes he could take in all the wonder and majesty to be seen in the cosmos with one glance in a mirror.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:05
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Warthur posted:you'd get Moffatt wanting us to be very impressed with how cool River Song or Clara are. 
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Aug 15, 2023 20:09
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LividLiquid posted:River Song and Clara were cool. Even if I agreed, it would bug me how much the show loudly wanted me to agree.
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Aug 15, 2023 20:15
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Jerusalem posted:I'm positive it's an episode somewhere from the Matt Smith run where somebody is freaking out about the implications of time travel and asks something like,"What if I kill my grandfather?" and the Doctor's reaction is just,"....were you planning on killing your grandfather? I liked the line when Bill was freaking out in Victorian London about how anything she does could change the future and 12 responded 'So, just like any other day in your life'.
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Aug 15, 2023 21:36
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Just watched The Horror of Fang Rock and The Invisible Enemy with the better half. Tom Baker really was blessed with a solid, solid run of stone cold bangers, wasn't he? Makes me dread that in three seasons JNT takes over and it's all going to go to poo poo for a long while
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Aug 15, 2023 23:05
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armpit_enjoyer posted:Just watched The Horror of Fang Rock and The Invisible Enemy with the better half. Tom Baker really was blessed with a solid, solid run of stone cold bangers, wasn't he? Makes me dread that in three seasons JNT takes over and it's all going to go to poo poo for a long while To be fair, his run kind of goes to poo poo a season before JNT takes over, as that's the season that was peak "Tom does whatever the gently caress he wants", coupled with the industrial action that eventually killed Shada. Though I do have a bit of affection for that season nonetheless (and City of Death is an undisputed classic).
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Aug 15, 2023 23:44
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Sydney Bottocks posted:To be fair, his run kind of goes to poo poo a season before JNT takes over, as that's the season that was peak "Tom does whatever the gently caress he wants", coupled with the industrial action that eventually killed Shada. Though I do have a bit of affection for that season nonetheless (and City of Death is an undisputed classic). I remember as a kid when watching that when Adric showed up was the moment I went, "Oh, they've hit the point where things go downhill." The term "jump the shark" hadn't been coined yet, but I was a savvy enough television watcher to pick up on how certain changes in a show's direction signaled the good times were over.
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Aug 15, 2023 23:48
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Honestly I really like the last Tom Baker/first JNT season. It's damning with faint praise to say that's the best that Adric ever works, but excepted The Leisure Hive and Meglos, it's a really strong run of episodes. I've said this before, but if you remove Colin Baker's frankly awful first season, the graph of Doctor Who quality is pretty unchanged from mid 4th ~ early 7th, with just a slight sagging in the middle there.
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Aug 16, 2023 00:07
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Rochallor posted:Honestly I really like the last Tom Baker/first JNT season. It's damning with faint praise to say that's the best that Adric ever works, but excepted The Leisure Hive and Meglos, it's a really strong run of episodes. Zoe = plucky young maths genius. Why does Adric get such hate? Been a while since I saw stuff with him in it and I've not looked at that period in detail but what I have seen is inoffensive (what I have seen is The Visitation and Earthshock, mind).
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Aug 16, 2023 00:48
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Adric was the wrong dynamic for the 5th Doctor and especially that overly crowded TARDIS. Where Zoe's intelligence worked as both a challenge and an aid to the Doctor being the smartest person the room, she also had a good dynamic with him as well as Jamie being roughly her age and also highly protective of her. Where Zoe came across as very competent but perhaps too self-aware of her own intelligence and not entirely cognizant of the danger she could be put in, Adric came across as pouty, irritating and it felt like the Doctor very genuinely just did not like him at all which raised questions as to why he was around at all, and made his death come across almost as more of a relief than a tragedy. As noted before, Adric actually works REALLY well as a 4th Doctor Companion, shockingly well in fact. Davison as a younger, "nicer" Doctor had the disadvantage of making Adric seem more like a bratty little brother, but with Tom you got the sense of a teacher or perhaps distant uncle who was intimidating enough that Adric sometimes kicking off and doing something unbelievably stupid felt kind of believable as a kicking back against the dominant presence that 4 was in any scene (and Romana as the girlfriend who is irritated at the idiot kid hanging around screwing with the vibes was great too). I sometimes wonder how a reduced 5 crew would have worked out. Sarah Sutton I believe was supposed to leave with the regeneration but Davison requested she stay on, and she felt tacked on into the follow-up scripts as a result. Tegan was loving great, nobody gently caress with Tegan. Adric clashed as a character with Davison's portrayal of the Doctor. So in an ideal world for me it would have been 5/Tegan as a proto-10/Donna squabbling their way across the universe, but I think it could have worked with 5/Tegan/Nyssa as well.
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Aug 16, 2023 01:07
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Jerusalem posted:Adric was the wrong dynamic for the 5th Doctor and especially that overly crowded TARDIS. Where Zoe's intelligence worked as both a challenge and an aid to the Doctor being the smartest person the room, she also had a good dynamic with him as well as Jamie being roughly her age and also highly protective of her. In addition to all this, Matthew Waterhouse in his younger years as Adric just wasn't a very good actor. When he was opposite the force of nature that was Tom Baker, that was fine, because Tom (even as stressed out and ill as he was in his last season) was able to act enough for both of them. When he was around Davison's gentler Doctor, plus the brassy and sassy Tegan, he just didn't have the acting chops to hold his own or to come across as anything other than a snotty twerp.
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Aug 16, 2023 01:16
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Thanks. I'm working on watching through the whole classic series in order and one thing which does stand out is how a change in Doctor demands a change in companion dynamics. Like, the least successful Troughton companion lineup was Ben/Polly/Jamie, because whilst Hartnell often needed three companions (early on because his Doctor was often more aloof, later on because he was often too ill to contribute), Troughton really didn't. Just got to Pertwee so a one companion at a time norm is going to kick in for a good long while, so it'll be interesting to see how the shift to more companions from Baker to Davison pans out when you watch in order.
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Aug 16, 2023 01:28
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LividLiquid posted:River Song and Clara were cool. Right, River Song was cool at one point, but rapidly became one of the most obnoxious characters on the show. And it’s not really even Kingston’s fault, it’s 100% Moffat huffing his own farts because he fell in love with a pet character. There’s absolutely nothing fun about watching a character who’s constantly smug about being ten steps ahead of the audience and the rest of the characters. It becomes a total chore to watch those episodes when characters are written that way and Moffat loving loved doing it. She was so one-note and uninteresting because of it and it continues to baffle me how she became so beloved.
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Aug 16, 2023 07:12
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I'm interested in what people thought of Turlough. I liked the idea of having a companion whose loyalty was questionable but, hmm...
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Aug 16, 2023 07:31
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When I was a kid and he first showed up I remember finding him oddly unremarkable, like he didn't really seem to bring anything to the table. Rewatching as an adult I dug that he started as a guy in a pretty hosed up situation who was way in over his head, and enjoyed the Doctor's frequent  reactions to his thinly veiled bullshit... but also his acting wasn't the greatest and it wasn't until they ended that Black Guardian storyline that he seemed to settle in more of an established part of the TARDIS crew who people might actually like... so of course he promptly wraps up in a rather bizarre story where apparently we were all supposed to know already he was some alien prince? Also the story was kind of overshadowed in people's memories by Nicola Bryant debuting in a two piece bikini.
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Aug 16, 2023 07:40
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...there was a story in that episode?
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Aug 16, 2023 07:49
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Rochallor posted:Honestly I really like the last Tom Baker/first JNT season. It's damning with faint praise to say that's the best that Adric ever works, but excepted The Leisure Hive and Meglos, it's a really strong run of episodes.
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Aug 16, 2023 09:52
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Woah woah woaharmpit_enjoyer posted:Just watched The Horror of Fang Rock and The Invisible Enemy with the better half. Tom Baker really was blessed with a solid, solid run of stone cold bangers, wasn't he? Makes me dread that in three seasons JNT takes over and it's all going to go to poo poo for a long while The Invisible Enemy has never previously been described as a "stone cold banger"
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Aug 16, 2023 11:04
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Invisible Enemy has some great model work at least.
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Aug 16, 2023 11:10
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Doctor Spaceman posted:State of Decay is good, solid, classic Who and Warrior's Gate is one of the most enjoyably weird stories they've done. I've got a lot of nostalgia for that period because it's some of the first stuff I saw (I began with Nightmare on Eden during one of ABC's reruns in the 90s) but even putting that aside there's some great stuff. Bidmead's tenure as script editor results in some really wild poo poo considering his "let's make it more sciency" approach includes a cactus clone man and a giant vampire.
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Aug 16, 2023 11:38
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Invisible Enemy has some great model work at least. ...and introduced K9 too. Surely every Dr Who fan has a soft spot for K9.
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Aug 16, 2023 12:25
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https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1691729005735481376
Vinylshadow fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Aug 16, 2023 |
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Aug 16, 2023 14:52
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This is getting a bit silly but I can't help but love it.
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Aug 16, 2023 15:15
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Remember when Michelle Ryan seemed like she might be a big star?
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Aug 16, 2023 15:22
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PriorMarcus posted:Remember when Michelle Ryan seemed like she might be a big star? In all seriousness, I don't! I think I just must not have been keyed in with whatever she was working on, I don't think I ever saw her before Planet of the Dead, and nothing against her personally but I hated that story and her character and was glad she never showed up again. Jackie Tyler and 6 hanging out shouldn't make any goddamn sense but I don't care, that sounds like a blast 
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Aug 16, 2023 15:32
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PriorMarcus posted:Remember when Michelle Ryan seemed like she might be a big star? No, they tried a few times (her appearance in Who felt like a BBC mandate, honestly), but she’s not a good actress.
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Aug 16, 2023 15:36
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Woah woah woah It has an immobile shrimp for the main villain and a good third of the story is just Leela and K9 bonding over their mutual love for violence. If that's not a good time then I don't know what is
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Aug 16, 2023 15:50
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It's weird, I never really think about it when I look back on that period of Who, but I remember loving it when I first saw it, always being surprised by how much I enjoy it on rewatches, it introduces K9, it's got some truly bonkers ideas like the a large part of the story being a literal clone of the Doctor running around inside the original Doctor's body... it's good!
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Aug 16, 2023 15:55
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The_Doctor posted:No, they tried a few times (her appearance in Who felt like a BBC mandate, honestly), but she’s not a good actress. I agree, but then at one point she was also in the US Bionic Woman series and had a guest appearance on Jekyl that everyone seemed excited about. Though now that I've typed that I'm not sure who everyone was. Maybe just my mum because she liked Eastenders?
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Aug 16, 2023 16:37
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 14:26 |
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still slowly rewatching season 5 ahead of the Ringerverse episode on the Matt Smith years. The Beast Below with maybe one or two more passes on the script could've been a real banger. As it stands the opening is great (Doctor: "Remember Amy, we never get involved. Also Doctor: *immediately gets involved when he sees the crying kid*), and the ending is great, but the middle is pretty mushy. Was this one the first episode they shot? I know they held off on filming Eleventh Hour so the cast had time to let their chemistry set, but I don't know which episodes were filmed ahead of it.
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Aug 16, 2023 16:56
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