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Jose Oquendo posted:Maybe? But I always remember when Sisko tells Worf he'll most likely never get a command because of the time he failed a mission to save Jadzia ( I think that's what happened in the episode).
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Aug 16, 2023 21:26
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It also feels like the Empath should really be like... 10 minutes shorter. Feels like lots of scenes just get stretched out to pad time rather than advance the plot.
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Aug 16, 2023 21:32
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I enjoyed the Empath but it was more about the vibe than anything else. Most of it looks like a stage play, with nothing but the weird table and the black background, the aliens are kind of lame. I really liked the silent performer though.
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Aug 16, 2023 21:37
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"So when you say there's no budget to build sets this week, does that mean there's literally NO budget for sets, or...?"
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Aug 16, 2023 21:40
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“The Empath” is… not terrible. But it’s a pretty sluggish script and that’s an issue when you have so little else to punch it up with. Let’s just say that if you only watch one “gently caress it, let’s just do it on a blank stage” episode of a 60s genre show, it should be “Once Upon A Time” from The Prisoner instead
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Aug 16, 2023 21:44
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, Worf made it to captain and was in command of the Enterprise-E for its final mission, all details of which, including the fate of the E itself have been classified by Starfleet as an excuse by the showrunners to let someone else tell the story of the E's final days in novel, comic or video game form. The E was also at Gamma Serpentis and was one of the ships that got hosed up by the Living Construct, and was presumably under Worf's command at the time as well because Picard was an admiral by that point and leading the Romulan evacuation from the USS Verity. I don't know what half of what you've mentioned here is and I choose to believe it didn't happen because it was written by dweebs
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Aug 16, 2023 21:58
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Tighclops posted:I don't know what half of what you've mentioned here is and I choose to believe it didn't happen because it was written by dweebs The only bit that actually happened on screen was the Enterprise-E being a part of the fleet that ate poo poo at the end of Season 1 of Prodigy.
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Aug 16, 2023 22:13
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nine-gear crow posted:The only bit that actually happened on screen was the Enterprise-E being a part of the fleet that ate poo poo at the end of Season 1 of Prodigy. That must be what happened. Starfleet Command already issued a D-notice for Season 1, there must be something juicy in it!!!
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Aug 16, 2023 22:27
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The ending of Deep Space 9 is very bittersweet. I think O'Brien is the only one who comes out totally positively, since he was better at keeping things professional and his career was on the way up (and of course, with Keiko following him back to Earth she can also get back into botany).
DavidCameronsPig posted:Odo being a cop during the occupation really didn’t make any sense, no matter how much they bent over backwards trying to explain it. And they bent pretty far backwards. In context, Dukat was weird and did care about having some kind of image of fairness because he wanted the image of being a savior and protector to the Bajorans, which may make even less sense, but then it's just about the bizarre eccentricities of Dukat (and I guess all the propaganda Dukat tried to put out about himself must've boosted Odo).
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Aug 16, 2023 22:37
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SlothfulCobra posted:[*]Garak's exile is over because everyone who exiled him is dead and now he has to help rebuild the ruins of Cardassia into a society that he doesn't really respect I don't know about that. Since he was part of Damar's revolutionary forces, I thought the idea was that Cardassia Prime could be remade/reshaped into a better, less fascist society. Or maybe, even after the last six or seven years, I'm still not cynical enough....
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Aug 16, 2023 22:41
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Based on what I have read, all fictional forms of political organization are essentially fascism, and in a sense Garak is doomed. (This may also apply to all RL forms of government, except possibly the one the reader prefers.) However it seems from what we can piece together that a Cardassian state not in conflict with the UFP might be able to establish a less adventurous foreign policy. I suspect their vague resource problems were self inflicted.
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Aug 16, 2023 22:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:The ending of Deep Space 9 is very bittersweet. I think O'Brien is the only one who comes out totally positively, since he was better at keeping things professional and his career was on the way up (and of course, with Keiko following him back to Earth she can also get back into botany). One thing I really appreciated about the DS9 relaunch novels was how they worked to give the characters meaningful continuations to their lives, so that the end of the war wasn't the end of their story. One thing I didn't appreciate about the non-DS9 relaunch novels was how often DS9 got the short end of the stick.
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Aug 16, 2023 23:06
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't know about that. Since he was part of Damar's revolutionary forces, I thought the idea was that Cardassia Prime could be remade/reshaped into a better, less fascist society. Garak is in a really weird position philosophically on that. He does believe that Cardassia can be reformed, even before the Dominion takeover, but he was also fervently a true believer in many of the most sinister aspects of Cardassian culture. He was proud of things like their literature assuming guilt instead of innocence, or how long he could keep lies going. He mocks the Federation and its principles even though he understands its value. He may have resigned himself long ago to being a sleazebag on the fringe of society, but now he gets to go be one of the principle rebuilders of the planet and personally recreate it without the things he cherished, because he know the planet will be better for it. Spare me your insufferable Federation optimism! Of course it'll survive! But not as the Cardassia I knew! His assessment of Cardassian society may also be inaccurate; in Chain of Command, Picard describes Cardassia as having some kind of peaceful and spiritual society before whatever cataclysm that led to Cardassia becoming a fascist autocracy. But Garak was raised to be proud of what Cardassian society was, even if he disagreed with some of the ways that was expressed. He is his father's son.
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Aug 16, 2023 23:17
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Nessus posted:Based on what I have read, all fictional forms of political organization are essentially fascism Maybe read better stuff I guess
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Aug 17, 2023 00:18
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*extremely ominous rising orchestral terror* "Mister Worf. Fire." BAM-BAM-BAM (rat-tat-tat-tat-tata) BAM-BAM-BAM (rat-tat-tat-tat-tata) etc. So yeah, seen Best of Both Worlds I & II before, vague memories though. So much better with the weight of three seasons behind it. I don't need to go too deep into this one, you all know it, except to say the initial slower pace of the first part is great. It gradually builds in tension until you hit that cliffhanger, which is still a beaut. Ends the season with a BANG-BANG-BANG (rat-tat-tat-tat-tata). Then part II opens season 4 with another bang. I think as a one (alright two, counting Q-Who) and done big bad, the Borg are just great. Expect them to get driven into the ground in coming seasons. Season 3 down and as you lot said, really came in firing on all cylinders. Just some great top drawer stories, very few duds. Nothing anywhere near as bad as the worst of seasons1 & 2 anyway. Special mention to the scoring, a lot of it very filmic and lyrical. Excited for the next season now. How long does the quality keep up? Is there a downturn or does the show find its footing and keep it?
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Aug 17, 2023 00:38
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I think the quality keeps up for most of the series, and it ends super strong.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:42
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MuddyFunster posted:*extremely ominous rising orchestral terror* There’s like three more Borg episodes in TNG. 1 of them is very good, 2 are eh. No if you want to see them get utterly pulverized, watch Voyager.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:57
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Season 4–6 have some top-quality stuff, though you may notice more duds as you make your way through. Season 7 suddenly has a lot more duds, but, yeah, then you hit the finale and you don't care about the other poo poo.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:59
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In defense of Rom, he was actually quite good at managing and inspiring people even if he didn't think he was. Organizing the union under his brother's nose was a pretty bold move especially because it could have resulted in him being outcast from all of Ferengi society. I think he realized he didn't really give a poo poo about Ferengi society and just wanted to make himself and those close to him happy, and it's going to be with that attitude that he approaches modernizing Ferenginar. Credit to Leeta as well because I think she was able to recognize Rom's naivety while also protecting him from the worst parasites who would take advantage of him.
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Aug 17, 2023 01:20
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disaster pastor posted:One thing I really appreciated about the DS9 relaunch novels was how they worked to give the characters meaningful continuations to their lives, so that the end of the war wasn't the end of their story.
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Aug 17, 2023 01:49
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I think the Cardassians are gonna have a hard time building a society that isn’t hosed up because 1) it’s the exact same people that were just previously part of a hosed up society, except for 2) all the people who ended up getting slaughtered either by their own hosed up government or in the gigantic war they just lost which devastated their planet on top of an honest to god genocide that killed hundreds of millions. Garak loves Cardassia but he wasn’t happy with the way things were, he can’t live with himself either as Cardassia’s servant or a traitor to it, and he has no faith his own return home (over the dead bodies of millions) is the beginning of a change for the better.
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Aug 17, 2023 01:54
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well, when Cardassia threatened to maybe possibly do some reforms and make life better, the Klingons invaded them
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Aug 17, 2023 02:01
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Nessus posted:I thought it was when he did some light terrorism. I'm telling you that was a Fantasy Island scenario and Worf's Ideal Vacation was doing some light terrorism, but everyone else was in on it and that's why he didn't get in trouble
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Aug 17, 2023 02:03
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skasion posted:I think the Cardassians are gonna have a hard time building a society that isn’t hosed up because 1) it’s the exact same people that were just previously part of a hosed up society, except for 2) all the people who ended up getting slaughtered either by their own hosed up government or in the gigantic war they just lost which devastated their planet on top of an honest to god genocide that killed hundreds of millions. Garak loves Cardassia but he wasn’t happy with the way things were, he can’t live with himself either as Cardassia’s servant or a traitor to it, and he has no faith his own return home (over the dead bodies of millions) is the beginning of a change for the better.
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Aug 17, 2023 02:08
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FlamingLiberal posted:Part of the reason for this is because they mostly gave the DS9 stuff to one writer, and somehow the continuity other than DS9 went into the future faster than the DS9 stuff. The eventual solution to this was at one point they had to jolt everything forward like 2-3 years in time and it was pretty jarring. Like suddenly Kira is no longer in charge of DS9 and is a Vedek? It wasn't really a one-writer issue, that was more the Voyager relaunch. But Voyager ended two years after DS9, Nemesis happened a year after Voyager, and each relaunch "began" after the screen-canon stuff ended. So when the Destiny trilogy came along and they decided to line up the timeline of all the post-series books, Voyager only needed to come forward about a year to be synced with TNG, and Voyager had a less-developed relaunch to begin with anyway (four pre-Destiny books, and the most recent was four years old) while also getting some recent plot development in the TNG books, too. But DS9 needed to jump three years to line up, and they'd had a plan for what would happen in those three years. So they put all the pieces where they intended them to go, but we missed out on the explanations of how it all happened (until later, when they went back and wrote some of the middle bits). I think the beginning of the first Typhon Pact book plays with this well, actually. Bashir sitting around mid-life-crisising about how so much has happened and the original crew has moved on hits a little more strongly when the reader is also a bit overwhelmed by how much has happened that it feels like they missed.
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Aug 17, 2023 02:41
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skasion posted:I think the Cardassians are gonna have a hard time building a society that isn’t hosed up because 1) it’s the exact same people that were just previously part of a hosed up society, except for 2) all the people who ended up getting slaughtered either by their own hosed up government or in the gigantic war they just lost which devastated their planet on top of an honest to god genocide that killed hundreds of millions. Garak loves Cardassia but he wasn’t happy with the way things were, he can’t live with himself either as Cardassia’s servant or a traitor to it, and he has no faith his own return home (over the dead bodies of millions) is the beginning of a change for the better. Well, we see earlier in the show that there are Cardassian reformers buzzing around, but they've been largely chase into hiding. The Obsidian Order got largely wiped out both by the Dominion and by Tain killing any rivals when he came out of retirement to fight the Dominion. The remaining military and civilian governments got into a bit of a civil war, with the civilian government unexpectedly coming out on top, but also some kind of significant amount of military officers swapped over to the civilian side, just in time to have to fight a really bad war against the Klingon Empire, and then another coup in favor of the Dominion, which got followed by another civil war and the Dominion starting a last minute genocide on the capital planet like Japan in the Philippines. So the top political, espionage, and military leaders are all dead, and most anyone left in any high official political office has to face allegations of collaboration. They're really starting from as scratch as you can get. It depends on how much you believe about how deep the corruption goes into their culture. But if any reformers successfully managed to hide out for the duration of the wars, they'd be in a really good position to get something done. Presumably some kind of Federation aid could also influence the new Cardassia.
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Aug 17, 2023 05:00
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Just rewatched TNG’s “The Loss”. What a dud. I understand and agree with the apparent impulse of the writers that, after doing character-focused episodes for virtually every other character once or twice, it was time for Troi to get one. She probably had one before this (besides the space baby episode) and I’ve just forgotten about it already. But while this does narrow in on one of the few distinctive things about the character, her empathic abilities, it felt like every part of how they handled it was fumbled. Setting aside how oblivious Troi is made to seem by the big lesson being ‘You don’t need an extra sense to counsel people, you just need the same level of empathy as a normal human,’ the way the other characters react to her loss of her empath sense comes off weird almost all around. Dr. Crusher gets the most natural responses, I guess, while Picard’s near-indifference works in the context of the impending B-plot disaster, but Riker feels like he was being handled by two writers who weren’t really communicating. Bouncing between attempts to genuinely comfort Troi and neg her? Not completely inconsistent with Riker’s characterization throughout the seasons, but still weird. And the lack of any scene with Geordi trying to commiserate or comfort Troi as she attempts to adjust to the loss of a sense she’s had all her life feels like a very obvious missing piece, but considering the rest of the episode, maybe it’s for the best. The B-plot is a let-down as well. A semi-hive-mind, two-dimensional-perceiving entity? There’s so much that could be done with that. The one bright spot was Worf’s thirst to shoot missiles at it. It could have been swapped with virtually any of the other ‘destruction on a timer’ threats the ship has faced, and aside from Troi getting wiggy over not being able to sense their potential minds, no impactful change would register. Instead, we get Guinan easily walking away with almost the whole episode thanks to one scene where she plays calm against Troi’s hysteria. I guess I’ve been spoiled by the comparative quality of season four up to this point, because the strikes against this episode felt like they just kept piling up.
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Aug 17, 2023 05:10
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If Cardassia became the equivalent of post WW2 Japan and just infected the federation with Cardassian Anime I'd consider it a wash for the Dominion War
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Aug 17, 2023 05:15
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mods please change my name to Cardassian Anime thanks
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Aug 17, 2023 05:19
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Darthemed posted:Just rewatched TNG’s “The Loss”. What a dud. I understand and agree with the apparent impulse of the writers that, after doing character-focused episodes for virtually every other character once or twice, it was time for Troi to get one. She probably had one before this (besides the space baby episode) and I’ve just forgotten about it already... There was one called The Price. It didn't actually have a bad script, but everything about the execution was miserable and I don't blame you for forgetting since it is really easy to do so. Most of it has already left my head, except for the mirror room sex talk workout scene, which was admittedly astonishing in a "why did they do this" kind of way. I mean, I can take a few guesses as to why they did it.
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Aug 17, 2023 05:41
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, Worf made it to captain and was in command of the Enterprise-E for its final mission, all details of which, including the fate of the E itself have been classified by Starfleet as an excuse by the showrunners to let someone else tell the story of the E's final days in novel, comic or video game form. The E was also at Gamma Serpentis and was one of the ships that got hosed up by the Living Construct, and was presumably under Worf's command at the time as well because Picard was an admiral by that point and leading the Romulan evacuation from the USS Verity. Worf altered the separation of the Enterprise to look a little bit like the original Probert art  but mostly like a giant space Bat'leth
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Aug 17, 2023 05:42
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skasion posted:I think the Cardassians are gonna have a hard time building a society that isn’t hosed up because 1) it’s the exact same people that were just previously part of a hosed up society, except for 2) all the people who ended up getting slaughtered either by their own hosed up government or in the gigantic war they just lost which devastated their planet on top of an honest to god genocide that killed hundreds of millions. I mean, in the Star Trek universe at least, Humans did it. Why not Cardassians?
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Aug 17, 2023 05:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:In context, Dukat was weird and did care about having some kind of image of fairness because he wanted the image of being a savior and protector to the Bajorans, which may make even less sense, but then it's just about the bizarre eccentricities of Dukat (and I guess all the propaganda Dukat tried to put out about himself must've boosted Odo). It's trite, but Dukat has become a lot more believable in light of guys like Trump and Musk writhing their way into the public consciousness; there are people who are utterly loathsome, who loathe individual people who don't have their status, and yet, deeply crave their approval and admiration as a whole, but are at the same time totally incapable of turning a critical lens on themselves, to achieve this.
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Aug 17, 2023 05:58
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davidspackage posted:It's trite, but Dukat has become a lot more believable in light of guys like Trump and Musk writhing their way into the public consciousness; there are people who are utterly loathsome, who loathe individual people who don't have their status, and yet, deeply crave their approval and admiration as a whole, but are at the same time totally incapable of turning a critical lens on themselves, to achieve this. Yes, the most fantastical thing about Dukat is that he's a truly cunning, charismatic individual who could maneuver his way into success on his own dark merits, instead of being carried there on a wave of nepotism and societal mass idiocy.
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Aug 17, 2023 08:23
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What is up with the Breen?
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Aug 17, 2023 13:00
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Atlas Hugged posted:What is up with the Breen? In the shows? They're reclusive but aggressive, and their main thing is that nobody really trusts them because they mostly opt out of the political bullshit of the Alpha Quadrant. (Unless they see a really good opportunity.)
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Aug 17, 2023 13:14
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Atlas Hugged posted:What is up with the Breen? I hear their planet is quite comfortable
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Aug 17, 2023 15:02
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They’re all Carrie Fisher under there. All of them.
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Aug 17, 2023 16:33
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ashpanash posted:I mean, in the Star Trek universe at least, Humans did it. Why not Cardassians? It would honestly be an interesting angle if they haven’t written grim dark post warp gray scale Federation of the future in stone, to show Cardassian involvement. There was that one timeline with a Cardassian lieutenant flying the D…
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Aug 17, 2023 16:39
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Nessus posted:Because of the uniquely horrible nature of humanity— wait, uh, uh— The President of the Federation in 3190 is part Cardassian, Bajoran and Human. We've seen other Cardassians in Starfleet still. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 16:40
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