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https://www.rawstory.com/trump-evangelicals-2663078391/quote:"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — 'turn the other cheek' — [and] to have someone come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" Moore revealed. "And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ,' the response would not be, 'I apologize.' The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak.'"
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Aug 10, 2023 08:07
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=_wceZUP1_Ug
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Aug 10, 2023 12:34
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I'm shocked. Well, not that shocked. If they finish dissociating from religion then it might be long-term good for Christianity as a constellation of groups.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:14
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MAGA is a literal cult
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Aug 10, 2023 14:41
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American evangelical Christians made their bed and now they can lie in it.
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Aug 10, 2023 16:12
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God is a comedian whose audience is too afraid to laugh.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:33
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I can't say I'm too surprised. Wasn't there something posted in this thread where a large minority of evangelicals didn't even think Jesus was divine, just a person with "good teachings". Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 22:25
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Josef bugman posted:I can't say I'm too surprised. Wasn't there something posted in this thread where a large minority of evangelicals didn't even think Jesus was divine, just a person with "good teachings". Something that has shown up across survey after survey of the Trump supporters that only came into politics because of Trump is that while they overwhelmingly identify as Christian they are almost all infrequent church attendees. Those who attend regularly were already in the process, Trump brought in a lot of people who are probably best termed as "culturally Christian". When pollsters start asking them questions about their faith, they basically have a Sunday School level of understanding. Nothing wrong with that, of course, at least until they start wanting policy made on what they heard the Bible says from some rando with no religious instruction on right wing talk radio.
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Aug 10, 2023 23:58
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I'm reminded of this, uh... are they still called "tweets"? https://twitter.com/LegoRacers2/status/1648148529020551169 
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Aug 11, 2023 00:18
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Having run across these types on Twitter, I always feel like they're just one bad meme away from becoming a white nationalist neopagan who rejected Christianity because it's too Jewish, or some kind of neo-Nietzchist who probably doesn't really get Nietzche either, or just going full BAP.
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Aug 11, 2023 00:59
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Keromaru5 posted:Having run across these types on Twitter, I always feel like they're just one bad meme away from becoming a white nationalist neopagan who rejected Christianity because it's too Jewish, or some kind of neo-Nietzchist who probably doesn't really get Nietzche either, or just going full BAP. Same feeling across different spaces. Coming back to Christianity as an adult it's been difficult to accept that Christianity is for many people a club and affinity group rather than a specific set of points you actually believe. I've kinda turned around on the value of creeds, and for a denomination-specific perspective the primacy of scripture, appropriately studied and interpreted. Hollowing out a church to simply be the gathering itself holds a lot of danger.
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Aug 11, 2023 01:12
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The same can be said of any group.
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Aug 11, 2023 01:15
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Ohtori Akio posted:Same feeling across different spaces. Coming back to Christianity as an adult it's been difficult to accept that Christianity is for many people a club and affinity group rather than a specific set of points you actually believe. I've kinda turned around on the value of creeds, and for a denomination-specific perspective the primacy of scripture, appropriately studied and interpreted. Hollowing out a church to simply be the gathering itself holds a lot of danger. A lot of churches have, as attendance has dwindled, decided to let their external ministries either languish or outright close up. So things like schools and hospitals that previously were funded by various denominations have slowly been closing up over the previous decades and bit by bit churches have turned inwards and now are basically don't interact with their wider communities as an organized unit. It's very weird for me as well, as I also had a period away from the church before coming back as an adult.
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Aug 11, 2023 02:06
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I'm reminded of this, uh... are they still called "tweets"? Reminds me of a buddy, high Anglican, Master Mason, who one day at the pub espoused the Manichean heresy and has never discussed theology with us again after getting called out on it
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Aug 11, 2023 04:48
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Crypto Semi Pelagianism. It's more likely than you think.
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Aug 11, 2023 09:41
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Ohtori Akio posted:Same feeling across different spaces. Coming back to Christianity as an adult it's been difficult to accept that Christianity is for many people a club and affinity group rather than a specific set of points you actually believe. I've kinda turned around on the value of creeds, and for a denomination-specific perspective the primacy of scripture, appropriately studied and interpreted. Hollowing out a church to simply be the gathering itself holds a lot of danger. See the scripture itself isn't immune to that. Otherwise you wouldn't doing the whole "God will recognise his own" stuff.
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Aug 11, 2023 10:33
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I effortposted a bit on the nordic heathen concept of self and soul over in my heathenry thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3914359&pagenumber=12&perpage=40#post533819519 Thanks to LITERALLY A BIRD for inspiring it with their talk of Ka!
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Aug 11, 2023 13:13
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Azathoth posted:A lot of churches have, as attendance has dwindled, decided to let their external ministries either languish or outright close up. So things like schools and hospitals that previously were funded by various denominations have slowly been closing up over the previous decades and bit by bit churches have turned inwards and now are basically don't interact with their wider communities as an organized unit. It's very weird for me as well, as I also had a period away from the church before coming back as an adult. The Shriner hospitals seem to keep going, at least, but the Freemasons have a similar issue to a lot of mainline denomnations. One theory I have heard is just that there are superior entertainment options floating around, so it is easy to watch movies or play games or something instead of going out to church or with your moose lodge buddies; and while this may be superior on a daily or weekly basis, it has long term issues.
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Aug 11, 2023 14:36
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Nessus posted:While I'm not sure it's a criticism, as such, one of the things that has stood out to me in Buddhism (especially in contrast to Judaism, which is a runaway freight train of charitable organizations, even if many of them are on Jewish-oriented topics) is that while charity is meritorious, it isn't as much as an emphasis as it was in the Catholic church or a lot of protestant denominations. This has not always been the case, for instance there were temple schools in Japan, but it is less of an emphasis now. The crisis has been brewing for a while and there's no single cause, but I would posit that it goes deeper than entertainment options down to how friend groups are formed in the modern age. Up until the 21st century, our options for making friends in a new place were more limited and a church offered an easy way to meet people, especially if you aren't someone who enjoys hanging out in a bar. Fraternal organizations like the Moose or the Freemasons filled a similar role. If you were a member back in your old town, you could easily show up and there would be a group of people with a similar cultural and socioeconomic background to possibly be friends with or at least be social with on a regular basis. These days, social media has supplanted those groups as they make it far easier to connect on more niche activities or interests, so the value of finding a general mass of people is far more limited. Churches, of course, have value to folks beyond making friends but that communal social aspect is at the core of the week to week church experience and folks just don't see as much value in that as they used to.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:35
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I read a little more about St Teresa. It turns out that when it says she was very humble, what that means is "performative self-deprecation laid on with a trowel." But I respect the fact that revealing the fact that she was having visions in 16th Century Spain which would immediately brought suspicion of being under the influence of evil spirits that she probably had to tread lightly. Props to her confessor for guiding her in the direction that would play well with the inquisition I guess. Her stance on slavery is pretty impressive given the time in which it was written. At the very least she regards it as bad or unfair or at least reports that her parents did with her obvious approval.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:16
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Prurient Squid posted:I read a little more about St Teresa. It turns out that when it says she was very humble, what that means is "performative self-deprecation laid on with a trowel."  For what it's worth, Squid, after we talked a little about humility the other day I started investigating what the definition of "humility" might have been in the particular context of "someone who thinks they might have had their shoulder touched by God." Because being humble in the traditional sense, saying, "no, couldn't be me, I am far too insignificant", means denying that God had chosen to interact with your life at all, and that would be the same thing as denying him and his wisdom, no? What is required of the person in that situation is being able to witness and accept that their Supreme Being sees fit to bring Their presence into their life, which is a very special thing, without that specialness warping into pride or arrogance, or thinking that it's something to do with uniquely you that makes you better than anyone else. I liked this page on it. A pair of excerpts: quote:Perhaps you’ve noticed that our culture places a lot of value on external accomplishments, looks, or status. Humility appears to clash with how we currently see the world, ourselves, and our careers, as sometimes we want attention more than anything. When we focus on external validation and importance, we feed our ego. If, on the other hand, we practice humility, we can see the world as it is and understand our place in it. Humility does not mean we are weak, self-effacing, or submissive. It actually means we have a sense of connectedness with the whole world and other people, enabling us to transcend self-preoccupation and helping us not take everything too seriously. quote:You can think of humility as “a quiet ego” (Hill & Laney, 2016). A humble person can remain curious and open-minded; they acknowledge their limits but also seek knowledge; they can even accept critical feedback and change their minds when faced with evidence; they see themselves not as the center of the world but a small part of a large community. As a character strength, humility is related to a compassionate attitude and the lack of arrogance, importance, or pride. If St. Teresa believed she was receiving visions from God, she certainly felt she was receiving them for a reason. I would not be surprised if what seems like performative self-deprecation from one perspective is an attempt to balance a personal relationship with Divinity against natural human ego from another. e: also, Tias, I loved your post, thank you! I commented on it a little in your thread since that is where you made it 
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Aug 11, 2023 16:37
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The mind is like a drunken monkey.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:33
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How does the Episcopal Church deal with diverse opinions or dissent on doctrinal, theological, and moral matters?
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Aug 13, 2023 02:13
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Thirteen Orphans posted:How does the Episcopal Church deal with diverse opinions or dissent on doctrinal, theological, and moral matters? Do you mean of the parishioners, or the church as a whole? The national church has a two body legislative convention that meets every 3 years. one body consisting of the bishops, the other an elected group of laity and clergy. They'll make doctrinal decisions, and appoint a presiding bishop. You'll likely only see any kind of doctrinal, theological, or moral change come during this convention. It's a slow process. But you can find some wild things in each parish that may not align with what the national church says.
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Aug 13, 2023 04:46
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This painting came up in ministry today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_the_World_%28painting%29
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Aug 13, 2023 14:35
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Beautiful!
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Aug 13, 2023 16:19
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Hey again Religion thread friends  a couple weeks ago my boyfriend brought me home a book from a little free library that is called Real Magic. Saturday evening I actually began reading it and almost immediately decided it was not for me to read alone, but rather to read where other people could also read along as well if they wanted to; so I am chronicling it in PMF. It has already talked a lot about religion and theurgy in the first two or three sections and I wondered if maybe I should crosslink the PMF thread in here, since I know some of you might be interested in the book contents either ironically or unironically. However, while it discusses some religion and spirituality it is still a book on "magic," not "religion," and I was (still am) faintly concerned I was already leaving too large an imprint on this thread after bursting in here for regular posting just a couple months ago. So I wasn't going to say anything and if people wanted to read it, hopefully they would find it.However the chapter section I posted last night spent a while going on about the Cosmic Web, the Web of Fate or whatever, just a lot of emphasis on webs and webbing. And this morning as I finished getting ready for work an earlier part about trying to share knowledge with as many people as possible floated through my head. Then I stepped out onto my front porch and right through the biggest loving spiderweb, spun all the way across my porch entryway, which was not there yesterday, and is mostly not there now because I have been picking webbing out of my hair and off my clothes for the last fifty minutes. I am very sorry spider. So there's "rending the veil" or lit. web, I guess, and Squid you posted the link to that beautiful portrait of opening a door for knowledge (Logos), and I made up my mind back in April with my dove's arrival that I do believe in signs, actually. So now I have to walk the walk and listen to the signs and share the link to the book about "Real Magic" with the folks here. I am not that far in yet and will not be taking it in an especial rush, but there is the link for anyone interested, and to anyone not interested I apologize for the link to the magic book in the religion thread. I hope you understand and please forgive me.
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Aug 14, 2023 13:03
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BTW Bonewits was a terrible sex pest, which is too bad because he is one of two (2) people who has written a book on how to run a large modern pagan ritual for public consumption. As I am a former member of priesthood of the Wiccan Church of Canada (and current member/organizer of priesthood for a newer, less lovely organization that doesn't keep sex pests around because they are useful idiots) I found said book to be an invaluable resource - very few works out there are written with facilitating public ritual in mind - but it's very regrettable that the man was ultra gross. Fortunately he's dead now so he can't harm anyone. (this is not me saying "don't read it, Bird!" because absolutely read it)
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Aug 14, 2023 13:24
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Boo! Well, I appreciate that knowledge because I have been wondering about that a bit, having known "the type." It will be kept in mind, thank you, Hamish. Rest in the appropriate degree of peace for your debatably eternal soul, Mr. Bonewits. e: also, I guess I am now fully morally exonerated in my choice of posting this person's entire book online for other people to read free. In addition to all my previous justifications, dead + garbage. LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 14:39
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Something a bit less depressing - Bird, were you aware that there's an entire album of some guy who did a musical thesis on the music of ancient Egypt? It's Music in the Age of the Pyramids by Rafael Perez Arroyo and it's quite good. I was introduced to it by a local person who does Egyptian reconstructionism (she actually did a presentation on the subject at the Council of World Religions a few years ago) and it's pretty neat.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:25
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Oh!! That sounds wonderful, thank you! I will check it out tonight! I have noticed that music is one of those almost universally significant elements in religious worship, but I have never incorporated it much into personal practice/prayer. I didn't think my Divinities would like my Fall Out Boy albums all that much. This is a much better place to start, I appreciate you!  e: I chose the track labeled "Hymn 510 from the Pyramid Texts" at random and listened to it during my prayer/meditation this evening. Perfect. Thank you
LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 17:25
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I think the trees want me to win.
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Aug 15, 2023 19:46
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Money trees are the perfect place for shade, that's just how I feel
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Aug 16, 2023 04:51
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When you watch the trees play with the light and hear the wind whistle the trees sees and hears through you.
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Aug 16, 2023 12:36
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What a gorgeous thought e: I'll add an edit to this post too; Squid I put up chapter 4 of that book today and it was heavily theologically-themed. You seem to have been investigating a lot of religious rabbitholes in recent months same as I have, I wonder if there are any interesting ideas in there for you. LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 16, 2023 20:47
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Bilirubin posted:Reminds me of a buddy, high Anglican, Master Mason, who one day at the pub espoused the Manichean heresy and has never discussed theology with us again after getting called out on it 1) loving wimp, the Anglican way is to find an argument it's not heresy and stick to it come heck or high water 2) yes ha ha yes to the Christian reincarnationists, join us
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Aug 17, 2023 03:31
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Isn't Manicheanism a full religion not a heresy?
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Aug 17, 2023 09:38
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To Manicheans, Christians blaspheme God by making him the source of evil. St Augustine was a Manichean before he switched to Christianity and then he went on to argue against Manichean ideas. This is just me sharing what I know. Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 09:52
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Prurient Squid posted:To Manicheans, Christians blaspheme God by making him the source of evil. St Augustine was a Manichean before he switched to Christianity and then he went on to argue against Manichean ideas.
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Aug 17, 2023 09:56
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It's got to come from somewhere, but today it seems like satan is kind of the thing. However, he wasn't an evil figure in jewish litterature (as far as I understand) to begin with.
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Aug 17, 2023 10:32
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