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PurpleXVI posted:That is objectively the worst imaginable answer, it's worse than never answering it and just going "game mechanics lmao," it's worse than just tweeting a picture of your latest bowel movement in response. Some game designers never recovered from that handful of games that made save points A Thing in the world that needed explaining instead of just a useful spot chosen for gameplay convenience.
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Aug 20, 2023 20:41
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Cythereal posted:Danuser felt the need to provide a specific canon answer for this in Shadowlands. It's especially weird because they previously canonized Spirit Healers during Legion. Chronicles Vol 1 said they're formerly Odyn's Val'kyr who decided to do their own thing of freely rezzing heroes, instead of bringing them to him. Being a special class of Kyrian, who otherwise have the defining trait of "everything happens as it should, and it's not our place to judge or interfere," is just confusing.
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Aug 20, 2023 21:00
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SirPhoebos posted:I never heard of tefilin being called a 'phylactary'. This has always seemed super tenuous to me since “phylactery” is also an archaic term for a Christian reliquary, something with a clear connection to the dead and the supernatural
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Aug 20, 2023 21:24
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SirPhoebos posted:I never heard of tefilin being called a 'phylactary'. It's what they were called in my college textbooks for my comparative religions class.  Samog posted:This has always seemed super tenuous to me since “phylactery” is also an archaic term for a Christian reliquary, something with a clear connection to the dead and the supernatural And I'd never heard of this use for it. Considering how much of Dungeons and Dragons comes from Gary Gygax, and knowing what I do about that guy, I never thought to question a random bit of anti-Semitism. Gruckles posted:It's especially weird because they previously canonized Spirit Healers during Legion. Chronicles Vol 1 said they're formerly Odyn's Val'kyr who decided to do their own thing of freely rezzing heroes, instead of bringing them to him. Being a special class of Kyrian, who otherwise have the defining trait of "everything happens as it should, and it's not our place to judge or interfere," is just confusing. The intro to Grimoire of the Shadowlands is Danuser going 'lol Chronicles was written by a bunch of ignorant, biased Titan-worshipers, they don't know poo poo and nothing in those books was true.'
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Aug 20, 2023 21:42
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I was going to say, I've never encountered "phylactery" for tefillin either, outside the Wikipedia article. It's a Greek word that may have been historically used for them at one time, but it's certainly not in common usage among modern Jews (and while I can't be certain, I don't think it was much used at the time D&D was being written either). I'm never going to discount possible antisemitism because it's everywhere, but this particular one always feels like a stretch to me, and the reliquary angle makes more sense as a possible origin. (For context if it matters, I'm Jewish and I even own a set of tefillin. That said, I'm not at all observant, and I think I've worn them maybe twice in my life and don't remember how to tie them.) If we're going to talk about antisemitism in fantasy works, I think golems are far higher up the list than phylacteries. While it doesn't bother me personally, I've known a fair number of Jews who legitimately find the way fantasy literature uses the golem offensive. (In the original myth it was very specifically a defender of the Jewish people, and animated by the divine name.) Antisemitism in fantasy is a complicated issue. I certainly don't want to downplay it, but I also don't necessarily blame authors for using antisemetic tropes unless they're really blatant and obviously deliberate, because this stuff is the background radiation of the culture we've been living in for centuries if not millennia. Goblins and dwarves and such often stumble into being antisemitic caricatures without necessarily being intended that way, because the memetic mutation's been going on so long that most people have legitimately forgotten the origin. (That said, I'm certainly not going to forgive Warcraft or JK Rowling for their money-obsessed big-nosed goblins secretly running the economy. There comes a point where it's so blatant that the intentions don't matter.) Edit: all this said, Cythereal, I appreciate you calling it out regardless. You're doing good work here.
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Aug 20, 2023 22:07
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Phylactery is a term for amulets in general. A tefillin, as something worn around the neck, would count as one if you wish to choose to describe it that way. The big thing with the lich's soul jar comes from one of the source books for... either first or second edition D&D, which descibes the lich's phylactery in detail as an exact match for a tefillin. As far as I can tell the word itself isn't problematic, but since "phylactery" isn't a word you encounter in any other context, it's picked up those antisemitic associations anyway.
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Aug 20, 2023 22:26
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Explopyro posted:(That said, I'm certainly not going to forgive Warcraft or JK Rowling for their money-obsessed big-nosed goblins secretly running the economy. There comes a point where it's so blatant that the intentions don't matter.) 
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Aug 20, 2023 22:31
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Re: tefillin: I come from a cultural background sufficiently middle of nowhere, SE America, that I ended up googling tefillin after reading this. Then I was at the gate for a flight from New Orleans to New York this morning where several people rolled up with arm and head tefillin (arm tefillin in short sleeves looks fairly metal).
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Aug 21, 2023 00:02
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I was a little surprised to see you had no intention of playing Baldur's Gate 3, what with all the rave reviews. It sounds like you've got specific beef, and I'm just curious because I'm on the fence about buying it myself. Apologies if you've talked about it and I missed it. I think this is as far as I ever got in the Undead campaign. It had been feeling like a tedious slog ever since attacking the elven gates, and the story had hit a lull. I think I played a few missions of the next campaign, but then I discovered custom maps and that's all I played from then on. Kinda looking forward to seeing what I missed!
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Aug 21, 2023 00:22
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EggsAisle posted:I was a little surprised to see you had no intention of playing Baldur's Gate 3, what with all the rave reviews. It sounds like you've got specific beef, and I'm just curious because I'm on the fence about buying it myself. Apologies if you've talked about it and I missed it. Combination of two things: 1. I was a big fan of the original Baldur's Gate games. I am extremely unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast gave the PC a canon name and description (white cishet human dude, natch), then had him murdered shortly after the series' end. A bunch of characters return in BG3 from the original series, and all of them turned evil or their lives went to poo poo. To me, it's a cheap and mean-spirited attempt to cash in on nostalgia that I do not like one bit. 2. Everything I've seen of the game, including LPers I normally enjoy, shows a game that goes way too hard for the dark'n'edgy'n'sexy vibe that I have no patience or affection for, in a manner similar to Cyberpunk 2077. Baldur's Gate 3 has an audience in mind, but that audience does not include me. The first point is one of my pet issues in video games. Here's a character creator! Make whatever protagonist you like! They'll be a straight white dude with short brown hair in all the marketing and official materials, but hey you can be wrong in your own copy of the game that will never be reflected in any marketing or sequels! Cythereal fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 00:26
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Yeah, this is basically why I'm still skeptical of BG3 also -- it seemed like some other story using the Baldur's Gate name and trying to be too edgy for its own good. Didn't know that they butchered the old cast though (metaphorically and/or literally), like what the hell
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Aug 21, 2023 00:41
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Cythereal posted:Combination of two things: Makes sense. A lot of people loved BG1 and especially 2, but for some reason, they never really did much for me; I greatly preferred Icewind Dale (which has gotten me a lot of weird looks and baffled "...huh"s over the years.) I get being put off by a game's vibe, though. Even a very well-crafted one. 
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Aug 21, 2023 00:51
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Cythereal posted:Combination of two things: I think that's a poor game of telephone going on. There aren't a lot of returning characters, in fact I can only think of two off-hand, and while one of them's had a pretty bad time, the other's doing pretty much as well as she was in the original BG games, and then some improvement. The connection's more in terms of world events and thematics, if anything, than a recurring cavalcade of "hey, remember this guy?" I'd also contest the "dark 'n' edgy"-characterization, but that's more of a personal perception. I have a pretty hard time thinking of it as "dark and edgy" after some of the patently goofy and light-hearted poo poo that happens. If anything I'd say it's more willing to just be funny and play a joke from time to time, than the original Baldur's Gate games which sequestered comedy pretty much to Jan and Minsc and that was it.
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Aug 21, 2023 00:51
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PurpleXVI posted:There aren't a lot of returning characters, in fact I can only think of two off-hand, and while one of them's had a pretty bad time, the other's doing pretty much as well as she was in the original BG games, and then some improvement. I can name four, and two of them are fully fledged villains you have the option to kill when their endings from BG2 were much more optimistic. Larian had to do a lot to overcome my inclination to be suspicious of Baldur's Gate 3, and they did very little. The inclusion of bisexual romances is something I consider a bare minimum expectation, not something that deserves special applause for including. I am not interested in BG3 and there is nothing Larian can do to make me interested in it. They had their chance, and in my opinion the wisest thing to do would have been to make an original game instead of trying to prey on my nostalgia for a game that when I played it had a woman protagonist and not this idiot of WotC's.
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Aug 21, 2023 00:54
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I'm only just now finishing Act 1 so I haven't met any of the returning characters, but "edgy" is not at all the vibe I have been getting from BG3. "Horny", maybe. Otherwise the tone has been pretty similar to the D&D movie, plenty of levity. Edit: I never played the original Baldur's Gate games so I don't have the nostalgia factor swaying me either way, fwiw Tarezax fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 00:57
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Cythereal posted:I am not interested in BG3 and there is nothing Larian can do to make me interested in it. Which is fair, and entirely your choice. I'm just annoyed when people base their dislike of the game on what I feel is misunderstandings or outright rumours and that gets spread to other people who might otherwise like the game.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:02
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PurpleXVI posted:Which is fair, and entirely your choice. I'm just annoyed when people base their dislike of the game on what I feel is misunderstandings or outright rumours and that gets spread to other people who might otherwise like the game. I base my dislike on watching a few hours worth of LPs of the game by people I enjoy during slow periods at work. If you like it, more power to you, but the game has zero net appeal to me.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:06
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BG3 is not remotely 'edgy' at all and it's a silly criticism to throw at the game.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:16
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RevolverDivider posted:BG3 is not remotely 'edgy' at all and it's a silly criticism to throw at the game. Maybe if you're playing with the Dark Urge origin, which a lot of streamers are doing...
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Aug 21, 2023 01:18
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RevolverDivider posted:BG3 is not remotely 'edgy' at all and it's a silly criticism to throw at the game. There's a special game over where the PC becomes a brainwashed sex slave if you gently caress up in one sidequest. Yeah, no, that poo poo belongs in the trash. If you like BG3, good for you. I do not and this is not open for debate.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:19
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RevolverDivider posted:BG3 is not remotely 'edgy' at all and it's a silly criticism to throw at the game. It presents itself that way fairly early with the severity that the problem put in front of you is framed with and also with the companion framing. It evolves into a game that's honestly pretty goofy. But that's *also* an evolution informed by the gameplay which is also incredibly goofy.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:21
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Look, y'all. I answered why I mentioned that I don't like Baldur's Gate 3. I explained further when pressed for details. My views on the subject are not open to debate and this is not a Let's Play Baldur's Gate 3 thread. Move on to a different subject or I will take what action is warranted.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:27
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FWIW, your first answer was good enough for me. Sorry it turned into a derail. How many more undead missions are left? We've got to be close to the end. I realized I never touched TFT's campaigns either, so just about everything from here on out will be new to me.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:33
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For my two cents, I will say that Isadora's Four Horsemen is a pretty powerful and well-balanced group, to be sure. From what little I know of Warcraft lore, and especially from what I've learned of it from following this thread, it seems a very interesting way to work with the "what if" while still keeping echoes of the main timeline. Out of curiosity, were there any other trios of characters that were considered for this set?
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Aug 21, 2023 01:45
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Probably for the best, that setting is a real  when you look at it closer.EggsAisle posted:How many more undead missions are left? We've got to be close to the end. I realized I never touched TFT's campaigns either, so just about everything from here on out will be new to me. We should be near the end of it now, not too long until we see something else.
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Aug 21, 2023 01:45
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EggsAisle posted:How many more undead missions are left? We've got to be close to the end. I realized I never touched TFT's campaigns either, so just about everything from here on out will be new to me. One. That's mission 21 done out of 37 for Reign of Chaos as a whole. NyoroEevee posted:For my two cents, I will say that Isadora's Four Horsemen is a pretty powerful and well-balanced group, to be sure. From what little I know of Warcraft lore, and especially from what I've learned of it from following this thread, it seems a very interesting way to work with the "what if" while still keeping echoes of the main timeline. Out of curiosity, were there any other trios of characters that were considered for this set? Isidora's Four Horsemen have been named already in a previous short story - Finnal Goldensword, Sally Whitemane, Naisha, and Isidora herself. Allera, Turalyon, and Khadgar were the leadership of her timeline's version of the Forsaken. They're from a half-finished short story I've never finished and posted to the thread about her timeline's Northrend campaign against the Lich King. quote:“Peoples of Azeroth,” the Queen of Dragons declared, “I have called this summit to answer the threat of the Undead Scourge and the Lich King Arthas. All of your nations have been attacked recently by his forces. Floating necropolis beset your shores. A plague of undeath tore through your nations. Arthas sees a world divided, divided by history and politics. Many of us have ample cause to hate him, but none of us have the strength to face him and his deathless armies alone. That is why I have brought us all here, to Shen-zin-su, a neutral meeting place for all of us. We cannot let Arthas reign unchecked, and there is only one way any of us can best him: together.” Cythereal fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 01:47
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When does Jaina leaves? After this mission?
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Aug 21, 2023 03:09
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ChaosDragon posted:When does Jaina leaves? After this mission? She basically left right before or during the start of this mission, as I understand it?
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Aug 21, 2023 03:22
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bladeworksmaster posted:She basically left right before or during the start of this mission, as I understand it? Correct, it's basically right after the opening between Arthas and Antonidas (she teleported away from Dalaran off-screen).
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Aug 21, 2023 04:34
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Hey Cyth, for games you should play and LP next in SS form.... Stardew Valley. Trust me. But seriously, I kinda hosed up and posted my lore post request on the starcraft thread not this one, so here it is here. Can you cover all the intentionally funny and silly moments of the three games and how they were rationalized/shoved into Canon?
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Aug 21, 2023 04:45
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Cool unmarked BG3 Spoilers again. Just shut the gently caress about other Games Cyth, this is the SECOND TIME YOU POST YOUR OPINIONS WITH UNMARKED SPOILERS
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Aug 21, 2023 05:38
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bunnyofdoom posted:Can you cover all the intentionally funny and silly moments of the three games and how they were rationalized/shoved into Canon? That depends entirely on what you deem 'all the intentionally funny and silly moments of the three games.' Be more specific. Jack-Off Lantern posted:Cool unmarked BG3 Spoilers again. Sorry. I always forget that spoilers are a thing that some people care about and what people even consider to be spoilers. Edit: If this was one of y'all, I noticed. https://twitter.com/GHordeLoyalist/status/1692666736540021090 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 11:59
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Are Tauren on the list of lore topics you're planning on covering? I've a vague recollection of you mentioning so, though as someone who's never played WC3, no idea if the game's going to provide a neat segue to them at any point. Actually, out of interest, how many missions are left in the game, and how many of those have their lore discussions set out in advance? If there's not much left to be said on miscellany (though maybe I shouldn't underestimate Warcraft's capacity for daft miscellany), maybe some of those lore topics could be divvied out over multiple posts if they merit more words.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:08
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They play a prominent role in the Horde campaign.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:12
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Cranachan posted:Actually, out of interest, how many missions are left in the game, and how many of those have their lore discussions set out in advance? If there's not much left to be said on miscellany (though maybe I shouldn't underestimate Warcraft's capacity for daft miscellany), maybe some of those lore topics could be divvied out over multiple posts if they merit more words. Tauren are on the list for sure. Also Garrosh Hellscream for the Horde campaign. Other topics already planned are mostly to do with the night elves once we finally meet them: Night elf intro/history Druids World trees and the Emerald Nightmare Illidan Tyrande and Malfurion The Nightborne The Green Dragonflight And maybe a major figures of the Burning Legion. Stuff I have reserved for the expansion includes topics involving the Forsaken (including the War of Thorns), the blood elves, the Northrend campaign that toppled the Lich King, Maiev Shadowsong, and the Fourth War in general.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:17
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Did anyone ever attempt diplomacy with the Scourge?
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Aug 22, 2023 03:12
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Kith posted:Did anyone ever attempt diplomacy with the Scourge? You could argue that the Cult of the Damned did, I guess?
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Aug 22, 2023 03:27
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Kith posted:Did anyone ever attempt diplomacy with the Scourge? Arthas' dad
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Aug 22, 2023 03:28
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Kith posted:Did anyone ever attempt diplomacy with the Scourge? The Scourge are all mind controlled slaves of the Lich King(and secretly also the Jailer), there's not really much room for negotiations there. The closest you have are the Forsaken, Knights of the Ebon Blade, and any other unaligned undead that managed to break free from the Lich King's control. Rhonne fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 22, 2023 |
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Aug 22, 2023 04:26
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Rhonne posted:The Scourge are all mind controlled slaves of the Lich King(and secretly also the Jailer), there's not really much room for negotiations there. The closest you have are the Forsaken, Knights of the Ebon Blade, and any other unaligned undead that managed to break free from the Lich King's control. There are the Cult of the Damned, who aren't so much mind controlled as uh, just really disillusioned fanatics.
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Aug 22, 2023 04:29
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