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If your entire table is in for the "quest for spell components" type of play, go nuts. But, I certainly would just let them exchange gold for mats at magic Wal*Mart because casters don't need more spotlight time at the expense of the table unless it's unanimous buy-in. In terms of Chromatic Orb, it's designed to not be a starter spell, but it's not good enough to be level 2, so the cost is supposed to be a bit of a valve so you'd probably get access to it late level 1/early level 2, which is fine. If you give it to people at character creation, that's fine, but it's a bit above curve, and again, casters don't need that. Having it come online the same time as Studded Leather is normal.
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Aug 20, 2023 02:18
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Level 1 sucks rear end and should be sped through as fast as possible, if outright starting at a higher level isn't feasible. It's a touch OP for level 1 but combat can be so swingy at that level that it might not even register because it looks real similar to other characters getting mildly lucky.
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Aug 20, 2023 02:24
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Zurreco posted:Alternately, the night before the big war the BBEG floods the markets with diamonds, dropping the value from 500 GP to 350 GP. The opposing army cannot revive anyone while the baddies can rely on necromancy. True, but jewel encrusted bowls seem like a real easy thing to have made. Someone in the party could probably do it if they have a tool proficiency. The bowl doesn't need to be food safe so the bowl can be leather or wood or whatever. 1000gp of trash jewels + 1sp nice bowl + glue. 100gp of trash jewels + 900gp or 90pp melted into a bowl shape + glue. A skillful artisan could make a bowl worth 1000gp our of less than 1000gp of materials, but that would take time. I bet anyone with a craft skill can pinterest mom their way to 1000gp bowl by using 1200gp of materials. 
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Aug 20, 2023 02:58
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“Welcome to my magic shop! You want diamonds for spell components? Here are my spell component booster packs. 1000 gp per pack. You could get lucky and get a diamond that will cover the costs of a True Resurection! Does it count if the diamond is priced more than you paid for it? Well, I’m not sure, if you get lucky you could always pay the difference in price just in case. Some packs will have less than 1000 gp of diamonds, it’s true, but since you paid more for them you could always take a chance.”
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Aug 20, 2023 04:04
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Is a lump of coal you paid 1000 gold to a simpleton good enough? It would be interesting if magical investigators in world considered these problems, performed experiments, and drew conclusions Like, what's the point of Wizarding colleges if there aren't PhD theses on that kind of thing
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Aug 20, 2023 04:08
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Mr. Lobe posted:Is a lump of coal you paid 1000 gold to a simpleton good enough? It would be interesting if magical investigators in world considered these problems, performed experiments, and drew conclusions Do diamonds even come form coal? I'm no fantasy gemologist, but I bet they come from some crazy creatures poop. Someone is farming diamond elementals in the underdark.
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Aug 20, 2023 04:27
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Facebook Aunt posted:Do diamonds even come form coal? I'm no fantasy gemologist, but I bet they come from some crazy creatures poop. Someone is farming diamond elementals in the underdark. Ah yes I'm starting at the wrong ontological level, there's no saying that atoms and by extention allotropes are a concept that exists in the Forgotten Realms. Still, the question of whether it really has to be a diamond or if it could be, say, an expensive clod of dirt has to have been something clerics of some knowledge domain god spent time investigating
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Aug 20, 2023 04:31
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but where's the style in e.g. summoning Death with only three small sticks and 4 ccs of mouse blood?
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Aug 20, 2023 04:58
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redleader posted:but where's the style in e.g. summoning Death with only three small sticks and 4 ccs of mouse blood? The Forgotten Realms could do a lot worse than cribbing notes from Pratchett
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Aug 20, 2023 05:04
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Mr. Lobe posted:Ah yes I'm starting at the wrong ontological level, there's no saying that atoms and by extention allotropes are a concept that exists in the Forgotten Realms. You'd think so. Especially for the forms of un-deathing that don't have much time pressure. You don't want to gently caress around with Revivify because you only have a minute, but the other ones you have time to try different stuff.
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Aug 20, 2023 05:26
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Wizard components make a stylistic kinda sense, even if originally it was just Dad jokes and prop comedy. Resurrection is Druid/Cleric biz though, so it feels thematically weirder when it's a standardized price from around 100 or so random D&D deities. Why is Silvanus reaching for his jewelers monocle before deciding if Davy Druid is good to go?
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Aug 20, 2023 05:46
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Facebook Aunt posted:You'd think so. Especially for the forms of un-deathing that don't have much time pressure. You don't want to gently caress around with Revivify because you only have a minute, but the other ones you have time to try different stuff. Supposing you have the attention of a level 9 cleric in your investigations, raise dead is only 100 gold more than revivify. You could experiment with revivify if you're willing to put those resources down, raise dead would be the safety net. Surely that's a good use of an archbishop's time, no? I assume that's about what a level 9 Cleric in NPC terms amounts to. Might take a rather strangely indulgent god to humor that research though.
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Aug 20, 2023 05:55
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Mr. Lobe posted:Supposing you have the attention of a level 9 cleric in your investigations, raise dead is only 100 gold more than revivify. You could experiment with revivify if you're willing to put those resources down, raise dead would be the safety net. The problem with the 60 seconds is that people rarely die in laboratory conditions. Most churches won't be down with literally murdering people to do revify experiments on them.
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Aug 20, 2023 07:12
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Caidin posted:Wizard components make a stylistic kinda sense, even if originally it was just Dad jokes and prop comedy. Thematically it makes sense that bringing someone back from the dead requires a significant sacrifice. Something most people can't or won't do, so everybody isn't constantly coming back from the dead all the time. Logically this should vary based on the religion but 1. it's a game and 2. satanic panic. A pocket full of diamonds is easier to take on your adventures than a spotless red bull you can sacrifice as needed. Weirdos already look for reasons games are bad, you don't want the books to have blood sacrifice in them.
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Aug 20, 2023 07:20
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Diamonds are one of the most common minerals, so this is just gods buying into jeweler marketing. If I say this piece of gravel is worth 50 or 50,000 gp, it's a seller's market and the gods can pound sand. Literally. Also yeah never sidetrack adventures just so wizards can cast basic out-of-book spells the entire party will need anyway. Commodifying resurrection magic is also exhibit #1 in "D&D magic is extremely boring."
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Aug 20, 2023 08:51
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Thanks for the quick replies! One more: If your spell does not require an attack roll, and you're not doing anything else to complicate it (say wearing the wrong armour), you don't have to roll anything for it to suceed, right? E: I searched, you already answered this Tias fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Aug 20, 2023 |
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Aug 20, 2023 09:04
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Tias posted:Thanks for the quick replies! Generally only spells which have effects on hostile targets require a roll of some kind. That will either be a "spell attack" which means the caster rolls and adds their spell attack modifier (ability mod + proficiency) trying to beat the target's AC, or it will be a saving throw of some kind, which means the target rolls and adds their relevant saving throw modifier trying to beat the caster's spell save DC (8 + ability mod + proficiency). There's a place on the character sheet above the spell list for players to write these numbers in so you can just reference the numbers instead of recalculating them. Just make sure to update them as they level up since they periodically increase. If a spell doesn't specify an attack or a save, it just works. Magic Missile, for example, is designed to do a small amount of guaranteed damage, and Fly is a utility spell so you just cast it and now the target can fly for the spell's duration, simple.
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Aug 20, 2023 13:28
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Basically the rule is that for magic on people you only have to roll if the person you're doing the magic on would resist it. If you're using a Light cantrip on your paladin's shield and they're OK with that, it just works. However if you're using a Light cantrip on an enemy's armour so they can't hide in the dark, they get a dex save to avoid it.
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Aug 20, 2023 14:18
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Facebook Aunt posted:The problem with the 60 seconds is that people rarely die in laboratory conditions. Most churches won't be down with literally murdering people to do revify experiments on them. I bet the lolthites would be down to conduct that kind of research
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Aug 20, 2023 15:18
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Mr. Lobe posted:I bet the lolthites would be down to conduct that kind of research Your neighborhood evangelical church would be down to conduct that kind of research
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Aug 20, 2023 17:23
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The way I run things with diamonds and the like is that gems are currency. They're pretty much traded exclusively for their actual value, and the only people that make money off the conversion of gems to coins are moneychangers and gem merchants. For gem spell components, the gp price is just an abstraction, there's a certain unspecified carat mass of diamond you need for resurrection, so what's happening when you go to a merchant and ask for the material component for resurrection, what you're actually asking for is a "x carat diamond". The gem merchant pulls out his scales, pops a suitably sized gem on one side, his weights on the other to show it's of at least that weight. Cuts as a result don't actually matter--that's only relevant if you're making jewellery and you don't just buy cut gems, cutting them is part of the process of making the highest-status jewellery (I play up a medieval aesthetic so the vast majority of gems are cabochons as faceting is both rare and risky), so you can either buy rough stones or finished rings, amulets etc. You could buy a ring that has an x-carat diamond in it and pop it out, but you'll pay waaaaaay more than 1000gp (or however much depending on the spell) since you'll need to buy the ring not just the gem, and the jeweller had to buy a larger gem than that off the gem merchant before cutting it down.
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Aug 20, 2023 18:25
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Yeah, I'm realizing my grasp on both gp purchasing power and diamond sizes is insufficient to really visualize what a 500gp diamond even looks like.
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Aug 20, 2023 19:10
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Vanadium posted:Yeah, I'm realizing my grasp on both gp purchasing power and diamond sizes is insufficient to really visualize what a 500gp diamond even looks like. I think GP purchasing power in RPGs is an interesting subject but one I don't have the academic skill to play with. What I've seen is usually "capitalism plus a few attempts to balance the game." The result is that "500 gp purchasing power" probably doesn't survive rudimentary scrutiny in any edition of D&D.
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Aug 20, 2023 20:02
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Think of it like this - a really nice and ornate breastplate would run about 500 GP at a high end smithy. A quick google search shows that this would run you ~$400 + shipping on etsy in the real world, so let's call that $600. A cut 0.5 carat blue nile diamond, something that looks like a low-end engagement ring, is worth around $600. Any factors regarding the scarcity of quality ingots in a medieval setting would also apply to the scarcity of quality diamonds. The whole point here is that it costs about a modern engagement ring to revive someone. If you think that your characters could arguably buy the equivalent of a modern engagement ring at a given merchant, then a 500 GP diamond should be reasonably available.
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Aug 20, 2023 21:42
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A new survey thing, but it's pretty different from the others. It's about content experimentation. https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7456771/Digital-Content-Survey
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Aug 21, 2023 01:21
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Zurreco posted:Think of it like this - a really nice and ornate breastplate would run about 500 GP at a high end smithy. A quick google search shows that this would run you ~$400 + shipping on etsy in the real world, so let's call that $600. A cut 0.5 carat blue nile diamond, something that looks like a low-end engagement ring, is worth around $600. Any factors regarding the scarcity of quality ingots in a medieval setting would also apply to the scarcity of quality diamonds. Thinking using modern day purchasing power as your lens skews the perceptions of what's going on in a typical D&D Renaissance/medieval setting, value/market wise. Quality steel, the man hours required to turn it into mail/plates/etc., or even just making a plain Jane metal tool like a hoe or whatever was really loving expensive for folks in a setting like that. Hell, even having a plow with a metal blade would have been a luxury reserved only for wealthier farms. Monthly income for the average person is somewhere between 10GP - 60GP per month, based on info in the DMG and PHB. Factor in whatever it would take for lodgings, food, etc. And they're probably only left with ~3gp - ~20 gp of savings left over each month. So a 500 GP piece of armor would either be the life savings of a poor person, or several years of saving by someone who's a wealthier craftsperson/merchant. That would put that piece of armor easily in the $75k-$125k sort of range in today's money. Mass production, industrial acquisition of natural resources, and widespread sharing of knowledge has made items incomprehensibly cheaper today compared to a world like that E: I did a little more research into real world comparisons of cost of armor compared to average income back then And found this really cool article. They actually landed on about the same price range for fine armor as I did using the D&D numbers. If this is interesting to you because you're a huge nerd, you should read it.  https://www.armstreet.com/news/the-cost-of-plate-armor-in-modern-moneyarmstreet posted:And the price difference between the regular men-at-arms’ plate armor and knight’s plate armor is huge! It can be compared with a difference between a regular modern business suit and a modern exclusive designer limited edition bespoke business suit. Such armor was made to order by renowned armorers, and, as a rule, had decals and decorations, even if we are talking about combat, not ceremonial armor, and its cost converted by the above mentioned method was in the range of $100,000 to $250,000 Mederlock fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 01:29
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Mederlock posted:Thinking using modern day purchasing power as your lens skews the perceptions of what's going on in a typical D&D Renaissance/medieval setting, value/market wise. Quality steel, the man hours required to turn it into mail/plates/etc., or even just making a plain Jane metal tool like a hoe or whatever was really loving expensive for folks in a setting like that. Hell, even having a plow with a metal blade would have been a luxury reserved only for wealthier farms. As stated, anything regarding the scarcity of quality smithing goods is comparable to the scarcity of finding a quality diamond. Furthermore, and in agreement with you, stating that you can find a 500 GP diamond anywhere they would sell an engagement ring implies that it should be rare except amongst the upper class or elite magic users. Mederlock posted:Monthly income for the average person is somewhere between 10GP - 60GP per month, based on info in the DMG and PHB. Factor in whatever it would take for lodgings, food, etc. And they're probably only left with ~3gp - ~20 gp of savings left over each month. So a 500 GP piece of armor would either be the life savings of a poor person, or several years of saving by someone who's a wealthier craftsperson/merchant. That would put that piece of armor easily in the $75k-$125k sort of range in today's money. Owning an ornate piece of breastplate, let alone anything outside of the Light Armor category, is explicitly not in the realm of something your average peasant would be bothering with in the first place. Using your numbers, let's say a family of three working aged lower middle class folks decides to save up for some armor so their child can maybe join the army and make a decent wage. If three people could each save ~9 GP a month, it would take them 1.5 years to save up enough to buy a 500 GP piece of armor. Is that feasible? No, especially if they have an unexpected financial loss. Is it possible? Yes, especially if they have a minor windfall. Are these people going to exist outside of major cities or bustling ports? No.
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Aug 21, 2023 02:01
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Iirc a fair few drafting systems effectively grouped several family units together and said "you all are responsible for one armed and armored soldier of whatever quality, sort it out among yourselves " precisely because equipment was beyond the means of a single family.
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Aug 21, 2023 02:17
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Diamonds should be covered by insurance.
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Aug 21, 2023 02:46
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Look when you need to cast revivify any diamond you can get is worth 500 gp to you right then right?
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Aug 21, 2023 03:57
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Hot off the presses from today's D&D session: My halfling assassin player, Marias, failed a critical roll and was grabbed by a giant recurring villain sharkman named "Charity". Last time that the players saw Charity, Marias threw a chamberpot on its face and stealth-kicked it down a humongous chasm, making some bad blood between the two. So, with an impossibly strong throw derived of pure vengeance, Charity hurled Marias a grand total of 760 ft into the air, and the sharkman took an inhuman jump to speedily meet Marias at apex of his flight. In its selachimorphic hands was a purple-black greatsword of Shar, and it readied a brutal attack from below. Marias calmed himself, loaded his rifle, and turned to aim at the sharkman as the pair approached their fated intersection. So, here we were, high in the sky above an Abbey of Shar in the pouring rain, in the middle of the night, on a new moon. The new moon is when Shar's power is at its strongest, and thus her symbol, a blazing purple ring, was dominating the night as its sole astral body. The ring framed the moment in a dull, near-useless light. Neither of the two figures in the blackness worshipped Shar, though only one held a priceless piece of her arsenal. We rolled initiative to decide who would strike first in the clash, and the sharkman won. But... I had a spontaneous, terrible idea and proceeded to offer my player the world's worst deal: we skip the usual boss fight. Instead, whoever hits their attack first instantly kills the other in an epic showdown. I made it clear that they could turn me down, and that Charity would go first, and that the deal altogether was probably a bad idea for them. However, the player loved the danger that the agreement would impose and accepted. We rolled the dice and they landed as they did. Marias, the halfling assassin, reached the apex of his flight, and aimed his rifle, barely able to make out the dark form of the monster soaring from below in the rain and darkness. His mind flashed through his training in the Navy Krakens - stay calm, keep it steady, and get the job done at any cost - and then, finally, Charity was in his rifle's iron sights. He was ready, and his killer's hands wouldn't miss this shot in a million years. But, as he pulled the trigger, a flash of purple burst out of his gun's breach. No bullet escaped the barrel. A misfire! Charity flashed by, stinking of blood, and Marias saw his rifle slowly slide into pieces. This is the story of how my PC was chopped into dozens of pieces by the 12-slice greatsword kata of a 15 ft. sharkman, hundreds of feet into the air on a new moon's storm under the unholy light of Shar. We had a tearful moment describing Marias' last thoughts and the inviting, heavenly cobbler shop that appeared before him as the light came to him. The very same cobbler shop back home which he was saving up money to buy. He entered the shop, and all his long lost friends in the Navy Krakens were there with him. It was finally time to join them. This is not the end of the story though, as the party paladin had used Misty Step to land on top of Charity before it made its jump. That became its own set of ridulousness that ended with the paladin failing a banishing smite, trading her soul to the devil to kill the manshark, piecing Marias back together in midair, using revivify on him, and then, after all that, Marias hits the ground with enough force to instantly kill him a second time with no diamond or spell slots remaining. Marias' player was grinning the entire time. Anyway, everyone had an awesome time in the most outrageous way and I have no clue how I will live up to this in the future. We'll see what happens after the funeral next week. HOMOEROTIC JESUS fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 04:37
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Another thing: My group got a little miffed at a perceived imbalance: The cleric can cast the guidance cantrip as a bonus action, so he essentially gets a +1d4 to any ability check he makes every turn, because he can still attack, while the bards vicious mockery cantrip costs an action and so can't be done off-hand. Also, since he can use it every time he knows he's going into an ability check, he seems to just always have +1d4 when he ability checks. Is this intentional? Is the ability to cause damage seen as more time-consuming because of balance?
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Aug 21, 2023 07:32
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Guidance is a touch spell. I can't imagine the situation where, during combat, your cleric needs to wade into the thick of things to use their bonus action to buff one ability check. If you are concerned about balance, that situation already feels super constrained. Out if combat, being able to use Guidance as a free buff (so long as you remember to use it) is a minor thing. The Help action effectively outpaces Guidance unless you need to surpass a DC higher than your max roll. Just to confirm, Guidance does not help with attack rolls or saving throws. Vicious Mockery is a combat spell and can't really be compared to a minor support cantrip.
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Aug 21, 2023 07:41
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Tias posted:Another thing: My group got a little miffed at a perceived imbalance: The cleric can cast the guidance cantrip as a bonus action, so he essentially gets a +1d4 to any ability check he makes every turn, because he can still attack, while the bards vicious mockery cantrip costs an action and so can't be done off-hand. Also, since he can use it every time he knows he's going into an ability check, he seems to just always have +1d4 when he ability checks. This is a little confusing. Are they using guidance on their attack rolls, or something? Because mockery doing damage and helping protect a party member with disadvantage is really huge. They're both extremely good abilities. But guidance is hardly something you'd use very often in combat.
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Aug 21, 2023 07:42
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So in DnD I've mainly played skill monkies, martial classes, and utility casters. If I wanted to make a spellcaster who was devoted to a specific element or theme--like an Ice Sorceror or something like that--what are some ways to go about that without being completely useless? I'm a flavor-over-gameplay guy, so I'm definitely okay with being a little underpowered, but I don't like the idea of being total deadweight. Blue Labrador fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 07:48
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I think you just play a caster and pick spells of a specific type. If you are concerned about enemy resistances, take Elemental Adept as a feat. You can also use Metamagic to change the damage type of elemental spells.
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Aug 21, 2023 08:04
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Blue Labrador posted:So in DnD I've mainly played skill monkies, martial classes, and utility casters. If I wanted to make a spellcaster who was devoted to a specific element or theme--like an Ice Sorceror or something like that--what are some ways to go about that without being completely useless? You can use transmute spell to modify the damage type of elemental spells. Other than that you could talk to your dm about reflavoring some spells.
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Aug 21, 2023 08:40
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Yeah it shouldn’t be too hard to reflavor/reskin a lot of spells to feel cold
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Aug 21, 2023 08:47
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Tias posted:Another thing: My group got a little miffed at a perceived imbalance: The cleric can cast the guidance cantrip as a bonus action, so he essentially gets a +1d4 to any ability check he makes every turn, because he can still attack, while the bards vicious mockery cantrip costs an action and so can't be done off-hand. Also, since he can use it every time he knows he's going into an ability check, he seems to just always have +1d4 when he ability checks. I am a little tired so maybe there is something obvious I am missing here, but how are they casting guidance as a bonus action? It normally takes an action. Also what benefit is it giving them in combat? Are they grappling constantly or something?
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Aug 21, 2023 10:12
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Yeah guidance is an action and has basically 0 combat utility what have you been letting them add it to because attack rolls are not ability checksquote:Guidance Ability checks are your rolls for skills, so you could pedantically argue there’s a combat use if you’re helping someone else pull off some kind of crazy manoeuvre but if you’re doing that they’d probably benefit more from someone just using the ‘help’ action to give them straight advantage on the roll, and in either event that’s your action burnt so no attack for you. Outside combat they can just cast it basically whenever they want all the time so they can just declare they’re casting guidance on anyone they can touch who’s about to make an ability check, like someone looking for traps or picking a lock or kicking the door down or telling some lies etc etc. Also since this came up at my table with a new player recently and this has pushed it back into my mind, if you’re having trouble with the action economy it’s worth someone mentioning that when characters get their extra attacks later, those aren’t extra actions they’re literally just extra attacks. You can’t make one attack and then do a separate thing because that first attack is your action and you just get to take multiple swings. The only time it differs is if they have a skill or a feature that specifically gives them another action like Action Surge for fighters, and that does mean that if they use their second action to also attack they get to make all their extra attacks again. History Comes Inside! fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 10:26
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