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chadbear
Jan 15, 2020

I’d like to have a chemical plant that can produce 100 units and can produce any combination of fertilizer and explosives that adds up to 100. So in war the economy retools because there is more demand for explosives, instead of having chemical plants that poo poo out explosives nobody uses in peacetime only to go bankrupt.

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ro5s
Dec 27, 2012

A happy little mouse!

Lots of AI USAs seem to split early in their game and permanently, I wonder if national militia means they stalemate 2 massive conscript armies into each other until a white peace.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

ro5s posted:

Lots of AI USAs seem to split early in their game and permanently, I wonder if national militia means they stalemate 2 massive conscript armies into each other until a white peace.

McClellan's dream

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


CapnAndy posted:



What happened here
I think, with the way things work now, that must have just been a massive a landowners rebellion. Any landowners rebellion in the US gets called the Confederate States. The actual Civil War event chain Confederacy should only pop in slave states. If I understand the system right.

In other words the landowners created the Confederacy for reasons other than slavery in that scenario, and they should become the United States again once they win.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Eiba posted:

I think, with the way things work now, that must have just been a massive a landowners rebellion. Any landowners rebellion in the US gets called the Confederate States. The actual Civil War event chain Confederacy should only pop in slave states. If I understand the system right.

In other words the landowners created the Confederacy for reasons other than slavery in that scenario, and they should become the United States again once they win.
War's long since over. That is a stable state of affairs. The Confederacy is a Great Power, I've got a bunch of trade deals with them, while the United States are Insignificant. (Also, it's hard to tell in that screenshot, but they did maintain DC as their capital. Super practical, guys.)

Actually, since I took that, Mexico managed to take some of the Indian Territories from the United States, the Confederacy is now facing its own rebellion, and also there's a fascist uprising happening in Germany, which I'm sure is nothing to be worried about.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

chadbear posted:

I’d like to have a chemical plant that can produce 100 units and can produce any combination of fertilizer and explosives that adds up to 100. So in war the economy retools because there is more demand for explosives, instead of having chemical plants that poo poo out explosives nobody uses in peacetime only to go bankrupt.

I don’t know if the units should necessarily be equal here (e.g. You lose two fertilizer for one explosive or w/e) but broadly agree

Kagon
Jan 25, 2005

CapnAndy posted:



What happened here

Something like this is exactly how i got my manifest Mexico achievement. The US seems to permanently break apart in more games than not for me at this point

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Can you all handle very basic questions about how the game works for me?

I'm trying to develop the HBC into a megastate. Here's the issue. I don't know how to play the game.

My manitoba has a population of 130k.
It has 90k labourers and 12k peasants.

Yet only 30k of them are 'employable', and I can't cram them into my logging camps?

Why do they refuse to work? I checked the subsistence farm population, it's apparently only 2.5k, and I had 8k jobs open.

megane
Jun 20, 2008



I’m not sure if this is the problem, but most of the population are dependents - spouses, children, people injured in wars, etc. A Laborer pop might have 80k people in it, but only 20k will have an actual “job” as a Laborer (yes, housekeeping and caregiving were and still are backbreaking labor, but they’re not reflected in-game). The percentage goes up if your laws allow women and/or children to work.

e: I believe dependents do earn a tiny amount from nebulous off-screen work.

megane fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Aug 22, 2023

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Toalpaz posted:

Can you all handle very basic questions about how the game works for me?

I'm trying to develop the HBC into a megastate. Here's the issue. I don't know how to play the game.

My manitoba has a population of 130k.
It has 90k labourers and 12k peasants.

Yet only 30k of them are 'employable', and I can't cram them into my logging camps?

Why do they refuse to work? I checked the subsistence farm population, it's apparently only 2.5k, and I had 8k jobs open.
Don't look on the Population tab for that information. More than half of your population is too young, too old, too wounded, or too female to work. Look at the bottom of the Buildings tab, it'll tell you how many unemployed and how many peasants you have. That's your open workforce. (Also I lied, it's on the Population tab too, in a box at the top.)

Also, not everyone can work every job. Anyone can be a Laborer, but for anything more complicated than that, your pops will need to know how to do the job. The game handles this via the Qualifications system, which tracks literacy, wealth, social class, and so on to determine what they're qualified for. Pops will also pick up Qualifications by working related or lesser jobs -- so a Clerk can also probably pick up work as an Academic if need be, and Laborers working on farms will learn on the job how to be Farmers. You can boost Qualifications globally with your schooling system, and locally by building Universities.

chadbear
Jan 15, 2020

In one game I had the Free States of America spawn, covering the Deep South to New York. The US kept DC, New England, Michigan and everything West of the Mississippi. The dispute was over migration controls -- the Free States wanted no immigrants whatsoever. Eventually the US switched to migration controls too. Starved of migrants, neither the US nor the FS ever took off, so in the late game I invaded to free New Africa, New England, the Cherokee and the Confederate States of America for the maximum number of Americas lmao

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.
Speaking of which, why is Michigan a releasable country from the USA? It’s like New England, Texas, a few Native American countries, New Africa/the south, and Michigan. Seems a weird choice

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
One of the Paradox team members is a proud Michigander

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.
I formed Scandinavia :dance:

Anyway, please enjoy my new art installation, it's named This Is What You loving Get For Taking Gotaland From Me, You Fuckers




Never a bad time to send the population of some nations back home to Russia in bodybags, that's what I say. (I still haven't actually retaken Gotaland yet; the bastards are allied with Great Qing and every time I try they drown me in a human tide. It's my one remaining goal for this game.)

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

CapnAndy posted:

I formed Scandinavia :dance:

Anyway, please enjoy my new art installation, it's named This Is What You loving Get For Taking Gotaland From Me, You Fuckers




Never a bad time to send the population of some nations back home to Russia in bodybags, that's what I say. (I still haven't actually retaken Gotaland yet; the bastards are allied with Great Qing and every time I try they drown me in a human tide. It's my one remaining goal for this game.)

Do the Qing require overseas supplies to feed their troops on the front with you? If so, it doesn't matter what kind of human waves they have - if you have any kind of halfway decent navy raid the gently caress out of convoys in the sea nodes leading up to Scandinavia and then do as you please. It doesn't matter how large their armies are if they're all starving and out of ammo, which they will be if they're trying to manage a large overseas war without proper naval cover.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Tomn posted:

Do the Qing require overseas supplies to feed their troops on the front with you? If so, it doesn't matter what kind of human waves they have - if you have any kind of halfway decent navy raid the gently caress out of convoys in the sea nodes leading up to Scandinavia and then do as you please. It doesn't matter how large their armies are if they're all starving and out of ammo, which they will be if they're trying to manage a large overseas war without proper naval cover.
Good suggestion, I'll invest in a bigger navy before I gently caress with 'em again.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

EwokEntourage posted:

Speaking of which, why is Michigan a releasable country from the USA? It’s like New England, Texas, a few Native American countries, New Africa/the south, and Michigan. Seems a weird choice

go blue motherfucker

guidoanselmi
Feb 6, 2008

I thought my ideas were so clear. I wanted to make an honest post. No lies whatsoever.

I really hope there's still some exploits left :3:

Magissima
Apr 15, 2013

I'd like to introduce you to some of the most special of our rocks and minerals.
Soiled Meat
Dev Diary #94 - Dawn of Wonder

I don't care for day/night cycles in games like HOI4 and Cities Skylines but this looks nice. I really like the look of the new UI skin too.

Sadly the 1.5 open beta is potentially being delayed by up to a week

hailthefish
Oct 24, 2010

Magissima posted:

Dev Diary #94 - Dawn of Wonder

I don't care for day/night cycles in games like HOI4 and Cities Skylines but this looks nice. I really like the look of the new UI skin too.

Sadly the 1.5 open beta is potentially being delayed by up to a week

at least at hoi4's timescale it's actually moderately meaningful

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Tomn posted:

Do the Qing require overseas supplies to feed their troops on the front with you? If so, it doesn't matter what kind of human waves they have - if you have any kind of halfway decent navy raid the gently caress out of convoys in the sea nodes leading up to Scandinavia and then do as you please. It doesn't matter how large their armies are if they're all starving and out of ammo, which they will be if they're trying to manage a large overseas war without proper naval cover.
Okay, that was really good advice. I beefed up my Navy and put two flotillas on convoy raiding duty in the Baltic Sea, with one more escorting my own convoys because I didn't want a taste of my own medicine, and it worked like a charm. I wish the game tracked how many convoys you sink during a war, because I was getting popups that my admirals had downed 1100 or so Russian convoys pretty goddamn frequently. Great Qing apparently took one look at the odds of getting any troops into the field and decided "gently caress that", because they abandoned Russia in less than a month.

I have absolutely no idea how many troops were in Gotaland -- there were 360-odd batallions, but mousing over the front had the game reporting an enemy population of -150k or so. However many there were, they were all, as you said, starving and out of ammo. The 67,000 men I tasked with that front had no trouble bullying them around and massacring the bastards at every opportunity.

The fronts on the Finland/Russia border were less affected by that, since they at least had a ground connection to the rest of the country, but it still wasn't enough. Between baiting them into charging my machine gun nests a few times and my vastly superior troops, I was soon on the offensive everywhere. Machine guns, trenches, and radios beats dudes lining up and horseback messengers, as it turns out.


I couldn't quite kill them all, but 2 million casualties ain't bad. Now stay the gently caress out forever.

Oh, also I'm the #3 ranked world power, and within spitting distance of #2. I've got no chance of catching the British, but I'm going to end this game in a pretty strong position.

Magissima
Apr 15, 2013

I'd like to introduce you to some of the most special of our rocks and minerals.
Soiled Meat

hailthefish posted:

at least at hoi4's timescale it's actually moderately meaningful

Eh, my main complaint with HOI4's implementation is that it goes too fast and creates visual noise on higher speeds, but they can't really untether the cycle from the in-game clock because night is relevant to gameplay. So the gameplay functionality largely kills the cosmetic aspect for me. A purely cosmetic and configurable day/night cycle is one I'm much more like to turn on and enjoy, and hopefully doesn't cost as much complexity and programmer time since it doesn't tie into the simulation at all. Still probably not where I would most like to see art resources go but it seems well done at least.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

In hoi2 and I think also 3 you could pre-plan attacks to start at a certain time, and the interface would tell you which hour was daylight. But in hoi4 you can't do that, so the day and night cycle becomes much harder to actually play with.

hailthefish
Oct 24, 2010

Magissima posted:

Eh, my main complaint with HOI4's implementation is that it goes too fast and creates visual noise on higher speeds, but they can't really untether the cycle from the in-game clock because night is relevant to gameplay. So the gameplay functionality largely kills the cosmetic aspect for me. A purely cosmetic and configurable day/night cycle is one I'm much more like to turn on and enjoy, and hopefully doesn't cost as much complexity and programmer time since it doesn't tie into the simulation at all. Still probably not where I would most like to see art resources go but it seems well done at least.

yeah, fair, I turn off the cosmetic day/night in hoi4 otherwise the game is just a rave any time you're on high speed

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

VostokProgram posted:

In hoi2 and I think also 3 you could pre-plan attacks to start at a certain time, and the interface would tell you which hour was daylight. But in hoi4 you can't do that, so the day and night cycle becomes much harder to actually play with.

I loved synchronising attacks in HoI2, but in 4 you just do whatever, doesn't really matter.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

CapnAndy posted:

Okay, that was really good advice. I beefed up my Navy and put two flotillas on convoy raiding duty in the Baltic Sea, with one more escorting my own convoys because I didn't want a taste of my own medicine, and it worked like a charm. I wish the game tracked how many convoys you sink during a war, because I was getting popups that my admirals had downed 1100 or so Russian convoys pretty goddamn frequently. Great Qing apparently took one look at the odds of getting any troops into the field and decided "gently caress that", because they abandoned Russia in less than a month.

I have absolutely no idea how many troops were in Gotaland -- there were 360-odd batallions, but mousing over the front had the game reporting an enemy population of -150k or so. However many there were, they were all, as you said, starving and out of ammo. The 67,000 men I tasked with that front had no trouble bullying them around and massacring the bastards at every opportunity.

The fronts on the Finland/Russia border were less affected by that, since they at least had a ground connection to the rest of the country, but it still wasn't enough. Between baiting them into charging my machine gun nests a few times and my vastly superior troops, I was soon on the offensive everywhere. Machine guns, trenches, and radios beats dudes lining up and horseback messengers, as it turns out.


I couldn't quite kill them all, but 2 million casualties ain't bad. Now stay the gently caress out forever.

Oh, also I'm the #3 ranked world power, and within spitting distance of #2. I've got no chance of catching the British, but I'm going to end this game in a pretty strong position.

Yeah, it really cannot be stressed enough how important a navy is in almost all circumstances. A strong navy basically lets you bully and seize overseas colonies at will, or allows you to thumb your nose at hostile overseas powers.

Also Russia in the late-game is frequently a paper tiger because their insistence on autocracy usually means they don't move away from peasant levies which caps them at line infantry or so for most of their vast reserves of conscripts. The same issue tends to plague the Ottomans and China. They look scary and their large armies tend to give them great power prestige from size alone, but a prepared industrial great power can usually sweep them away from whatever objective you set.

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


CapnAndy posted:

Okay, that was really good advice. I beefed up my Navy and put two flotillas on convoy raiding duty in the Baltic Sea, with one more escorting my own convoys because I didn't want a taste of my own medicine, and it worked like a charm. I wish the game tracked how many convoys you sink during a war, because I was getting popups that my admirals had downed 1100 or so Russian convoys pretty goddamn frequently. Great Qing apparently took one look at the odds of getting any troops into the field and decided "gently caress that", because they abandoned Russia in less than a month.

I have absolutely no idea how many troops were in Gotaland -- there were 360-odd batallions, but mousing over the front had the game reporting an enemy population of -150k or so. However many there were, they were all, as you said, starving and out of ammo. The 67,000 men I tasked with that front had no trouble bullying them around and massacring the bastards at every opportunity.

The fronts on the Finland/Russia border were less affected by that, since they at least had a ground connection to the rest of the country, but it still wasn't enough. Between baiting them into charging my machine gun nests a few times and my vastly superior troops, I was soon on the offensive everywhere. Machine guns, trenches, and radios beats dudes lining up and horseback messengers, as it turns out.


I couldn't quite kill them all, but 2 million casualties ain't bad. Now stay the gently caress out forever.

Oh, also I'm the #3 ranked world power, and within spitting distance of #2. I've got no chance of catching the British, but I'm going to end this game in a pretty strong position.

Hell yeah! Way to go! In both my Chile and Brazil runs I turned Venezuela and Columbia into Great Power graveyards by starving their troops out a number of times. GB and France should have learned that what happens in South America is my business and just stayed out of my own bouts of imperialism. :colbert: It's very, very effective to cut their supplies off like that. I was severely underrating navies until I figured that out.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands
It's a bit of a weird UI quirk that "raid convoys" being called what it is makes it sound like lone commerce raiders or whatever, when if you have a strong navy it might be more accurately labeled "Initiate close blockade" and is as militarily devastating as it sounds.

Dunno how economically devastating it is given that free trade is frequently anemic with how other nations don't really develop their markets much, but you can at least cut off a colonial power from the markets of their colonies which should throw them for a loop if you do it long-term.

IAmThatIs
Nov 17, 2014

Wasteland Style
I had a very frustrating experience as Colombia. I finished the liberalizing mission tree, getting multiculturalism, freedom of religion, etc. Then I wanted to become a council republic from the presidential Republic I was. 45% for, 55% against, leads to an absolutely brutal civil war I barely win.
The war ends and I get an event asking if I want to be a presidential Republic or parliament with no option to be a council republic...Hello???

Also the Panama canal seems to be an ultra trap as Colombia, oh boy I lose all tax income for a year in return for 100 prestige :/

Also I've been playing on steam deck. Pretty good all things considered, my PC is too old to run it so it's nifty playing the game even with my complaints.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

IAmThatIs posted:

Also the Panama canal seems to be an ultra trap as Colombia, oh boy I lose all tax income for a year in return for 100 prestige :/
Panama Canal is shockingly underwhelming. You should get to charge everyone who's running a trade route through it.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
yeah the cabals need to be revisited, they weren’t maybe money makers but they dramatically changed the trading landscape

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands
The canals actually make a pretty big difference if you're trading in their regions - the amount of convoys any given trade route requires goes up dramatically the more sea nodes they have to traverse, so being able to cut that in half frees up a lot of convoys for other duties, not to mention the military benefits of being able to get to a distant front faster or to cut down on the excess convoys that overseas supply lines take up.

That being said if you already have more convoys than you need or you don't rely heavily on trade or overseas colonies in the region then yeah the canals are a bit anemic.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

quote:

because I was getting popups that my admirals had downed 1100 or so Russian convoys pretty goddamn frequently.
Yea, if the convoy numbers were accurate you could easily build a land bridge between England and continental Europe with the number of sunken ships in the English channel.

I also frequently see political parties getting more votes than there are people in your country. In several of my games, post 1900 the trade unions alone would get 1 billion or so votes in a population of 250 million. Classic paradox, the numbers have no relationship to reality.

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

EwokEntourage posted:

Yea, if the convoy numbers were accurate you could easily build a land bridge between England and continental Europe with the number of sunken ships in the English channel.

I also frequently see political parties getting more votes than there are people in your country. In several of my games, post 1900 the trade unions alone would get 1 billion or so votes in a population of 250 million. Classic paradox, the numbers have no relationship to reality.

The dead are good comrades, they vote for the workers party :colbert:

e: also the best thing about the panama canal is playing as Colombia and having Britain pay you £silly a month to let them build it

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib

EwokEntourage posted:

Yea, if the convoy numbers were accurate you could easily build a land bridge between England and continental Europe with the number of sunken ships in the English channel.

I also frequently see political parties getting more votes than there are people in your country. In several of my games, post 1900 the trade unions alone would get 1 billion or so votes in a population of 250 million. Classic paradox, the numbers have no relationship to reality.

The votes are related to the distribution of politely power. From the wiki

quote:

The number of votes cast is not equal to the number of people voting.[2][3] Each of the relevant distribution of power laws gives all eligible pops political power from votes, but that same number is also used for the total number of votes cast. For instance, under Universal Suffrage all pops receive 20 votes, so you need at least 95% of your pops to abstain from voting for the number of votes to stay below total eligible voting population. In practice, you may frequently find the total number of votes cast to exceed the total eligible voting population, or even the total population if the former group is large enough.

Guess it’s easier to implement and balance this way, even though it looks silly.

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
Also some promising news stolen from Reddit

quote:

To be clear on this, Sphere of Influence - the name of the expansion - will not reintroduce SoI's from V2 (we already have shared markets and subjects), but a whole new system of influencing other nations around the world with both soft and hard power, and will let you customize the nature of your "sphere" and how it influences the countries in your sphere, alongside a host of other improvements to diplomacy. The same goes for foreign investments, it's a substantially more simulation-y approach compared to V2's implementation that will add a whole new layer to the economic system. And both these features will be fundamentally free, with the paid expansion adding a bunch of extra options to both systems. I think you'll be happily surprised.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Star posted:

The votes are related to the distribution of politely power. From the wiki

Guess it’s easier to implement and balance this way, even though it looks silly.

Yea, like i said, no relationship to reality. Didn't know that's how they calculated it though.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Star posted:

The votes are related to the distribution of politely power. From the wiki

Guess it’s easier to implement and balance this way, even though it looks silly.
I paid attention to the numbers of my next election.



That's a nation of 46 million casting about 400 million votes, which is indeed objectively silly, but given those numbers and the fact that only 53% of my citizens are politically engaged, it's actually about what you'd expect to see in a 20 votes for everybody system.

Also, I have one goal left for this game. I'm a few months away from inventing tanks and I have a massive War Machine Industry infrastructure already set up and I share a border with St. Petersburg and Russia's capital state. I'm gonna roll tanks into it.

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Aug 25, 2023

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
Just completed my Austria to Germany game, with all four Ultra mods. It was a bit iffy at first but it became quite a breeze after I defeated Prussia for the German Leadership and then held my own against the French Republic while swooping up many of the German minors. Ended as a Council Republic state with the Trade Unions as the completely dominating interest group, and with subjects ranging from Cuba, to Norway, all of the Balkans and then through the Ottoman Empire eastwards to Burma. My only real gripe is that I had a really difficult time invading the UK. I think I should have created two or three master fleets so I could invade with several large armies all at once.



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Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
ultra mods?

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