(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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Along with more tanks/IFVs/jets/artillery, I'd like to see Ukraine get more haul- and engineer-assets. LMTVs (cargo trucks), heavy equipment hauling trucks, troop carriers, bulldozers, backhoe loaders, etc. They are arguably as important as weapon systems and act as force multipliers on the attack and defense. Cargo movers seems obvious but are crazy versatile on the attack or defense. Fuel, ammo, food, and troops always need to be moved, concentrated or dispersed. Vehicles of all types are better hauled than moved under power due to the maintenance costs. Bulldozers, like the D7, are an absolute workhorse. Digging fighting positions, mine/obstacle clearance and emplacement, setting up logistics hubs, making combat roads and trails. They do just about everything. Same with BHLs, graders, excavators. poo poo, just engineers and their equipment in general. Just flood Ukraine with engineer assets and trained personnel.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 18:31 |
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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:23 |
KillHour posted:I hope this isn't Clancy chat but I really enjoy the effort posts by equipment experts so I'm wondering, given that we have already escalated from shells and small arms to MBTs and F16s - is there a thing that we COULD give Ukraine that would drastically change the calculus of the war? Everyone seems to agree with this being good but relatively modest in overall impact, so I'm wondering what (if anything) would be a real heavy hitter in terms of capability, if we suddenly didn't care about optics or maintaining our own stocks.* Ukraine is still a mostly Soviet force with some modern systems. Ukraine has mostly replaced losses with Western and captured Russian systems. Except that their military has massively expanded and therefore needs huge amounts of additional equipment. I do wonder how effective some F-35 would be …
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 18:45 |
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KillHour posted:I hope this isn't Clancy chat but I really enjoy the effort posts by equipment experts so I'm wondering, given that we have already escalated from shells and small arms to MBTs and F16s - is there a thing that we COULD give Ukraine that would drastically change the calculus of the war? Everyone seems to agree with this being good but relatively modest in overall impact, so I'm wondering what (if anything) would be a real heavy hitter in terms of capability, if we suddenly didn't care about optics or maintaining our own stocks.* I don't think Ukraine has received many minefield breaching vehicles but they probably need literally hundreds of them. And also the kinds of short-medium range AA systems to protect them.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 18:50 |
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Djarum posted:It’s honestly probably a mixture of both with Russia. We knew as far back as the Falklands War that anti-ship missiles were a very real threat to Naval operations and the technology has only gotten more mature in the 40 years since then. It is no surprise in what has happened there. I know this is rather off-topic, but I do agree that a Chinese military invasion of Taiwan appears to be a very poor idea for them. While I think the shielding effect of Taiwanese semi-conductor factories is rather overstated (Chinese territorial ambitions would certainly trump global supply chain impacts), they also are not currently willing to risk everything just to paint the map. I think they’ll continue pushing as much as they can, and hope that circumstances change and allow them to invade without a significant global reaction. The timeline is hazy because China has been rapidly building up its economic and military capabilities, but so has Taiwan and other regional powers. Some strategists believe there is currently a 10 year window of opportunity for China to conquer the island before global warming, Pacific rearmament, and generational change overtake events.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 18:53 |
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Dirt5o8 posted:Along with more tanks/IFVs/jets/artillery, I'd like to see Ukraine get more haul- and engineer-assets. LMTVs (cargo trucks), heavy equipment hauling trucks, troop carriers, bulldozers, backhoe loaders, etc. Bonus points; When all this poo poo is over with and Russia has hopefully hosed off back home this equipment will be right there, ready to go, for rebuilding the tragedy that is left behind.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 19:05 |
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Charliegrs posted:I don't think Ukraine has received many minefield breaching vehicles but they probably need literally hundreds of them. ...do you understand what you are talking about? How many such vehicles do you think even exist?
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 19:26 |
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Judgy Fucker posted:Why has Poland moved (more) troops to the Belarussian border and amped up anti-Belarussian (or at least nationalistic?) rhetoric recently? I keep forgetting Non-Europeans are posting here sometimes. To give you a head's up: Wagner has been acting rather aggressively lately, and Poland is deeply concerned about them sitting around in Belarus. There was at least one major incursion involving three Wagner-helicopters violating Polish airspace over a border-village, it was in the news here in Germany. Moon Slayer posted:I wonder if there wasn't some concern among the Baltics/Poland about Wagner in Belarus getting froggy so they decided to put on a display to remind them that actions would have consequences. You don't have to wonder, it's exactly this
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 19:55 |
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US Embassy in Belarus tells Americans in Belarus they should leave immediately. Lithuania, Poland, and Latvia closing border crossings is cited as the reason why.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:36 |
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The recommended actions aren't really new, they've been in place since early 2022. They've just updated some of the wording. The advice has been for Americans to leave Belarus ASAP for quite a while now.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 22:17 |
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Nenonen posted:...do you understand what you are talking about? How many such vehicles do you think even exist? That, indeed, seems to be the problem with this entire war.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 22:22 |
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Tomn posted:I'm a little curious how much of this is due to Russian incompetence vs inherent vulnerability, though - I seem to recall that when the Moskva was sunk there were a lot of articles about how the Russians just plain don't seem to have been awake in multiple ways when they were hit and how the defense systems weren't terribly well-designed to begin with. I wonder if the situation at sea is kind of like the "tanks are obsolete/no, Russians are just using them badly" thing? I think China's lesson taken from this war is drones/loitering bombs are extremely cheap way to take out stationed airplanes, both for offense and defense; mines are still as relevant as ever, both for sea mines and land mines; there is no amphibious operations so nothing to be learnt here.
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# ? Aug 21, 2023 23:49 |
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mlmp08 posted:I have taken your encouragement to heart. Do you see how below is bouncing around between different topics and switch-hitting from discussion of casualties to deaths? What are you trying to actually discuss? You should pin it down to one specific claim probably, cause as is, it's kind of all over the place. Mea culpa my friend. You are right, my apologies. I meant deaths. fatherboxx posted:It is an easy and lazy gotcha to dismiss any information about the war as unreliable What mechanisms do you think the Ukrainian state could use to assess civilian deaths in Mariupol? Man Plan Canal posted:I have noticed that people who are explicitly partisans of the Russian side of the conflict often refer to the Ghost of Kiev, a mostly social media driven phenomenon (even if the Ukrainian government did help perpetrate it) that lasted perhaps a week or two at the beginning of the war. Your comparison at the end is a false equivalency, I said I am not condemning this practice. The Ghost of Kiev was a quick offhand example but the Ukrainian state has made larger probably false claims repeatedly. Claims of how many Russian tanks they have destroyed seem to exceed the possible number of tanks Russia could have and claims of the success rate of their air defense have been statistically unlikely. For the record, I am also suspicious of the Russian states claims. I have to go to work now but if these claims seem outre I can dig up their posts on the matter later. Apologies if some of this stuff has been covered in the page of the thread I didn't have time to get to but I thought it was worth replying to these.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:21 |
Every side in every war exaggerates casualties inflicted. This is not a unique thing to Ukraine.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:36 |
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Weka posted:Claims of how many Russian tanks they have destroyed seem to exceed the possible number of tanks Russia could have and claims of the success rate of their air defense have been statistically unlikely. Not saying that Ukraine's tank kill counts are necessarily accurate, but Russia was widely estimated to have a stockpile of 10,000+ tanks at the start of the war and I don't think Ukraine is claiming tens of thousands of tank kills. It does claim enough tank kills that Russia would have had to mobilize a couple thousand mothballed tanks from their storage... which is something that has demonstrably happened. It would still assume there's some degree of inflation in Ukraine's numbers just due to the fog of war, but there's nothing inherently duplicitous in those numbers.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:48 |
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Gort posted:Yes, but so can the other planes Ukraine's had all along. I'm not an airhead, but as I understand it Ukraine having F-16s is good because more planes = better than, and F-16s have generally better capabilities than the Mig-29 and Sukhoi fighters Ukraine currently uses because the superpower that built them didn't collapse in 1989. They could also deploy HARMs against Russian frontline air defense, allowing other aircraft to take out Russian close air support.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:53 |
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Everyone shut up about whether or not 10,000 or 9,999 civilians have been killed in Mariupol, Russia has way more important news:
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 03:29 |
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Lol couldn't even get Sacred Band of Thebes right
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 03:31 |
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Weka posted:Claims of how many Russian tanks they have destroyed seem to exceed the possible number of tanks Russia could have
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 03:52 |
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Volmarias posted:Lol couldn't even get Sacred Band of Thebes right Spartans were also so gay that their wedding night involved their brides having their heads shaved so they looked like boys, they're not wrong. Morrow fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 22, 2023 |
# ? Aug 22, 2023 03:56 |
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Volmarias posted:Lol couldn't even get Sacred Band of Thebes right Just goes to show that in two and a half thousand years nobody will accurately remember the gay super soldiers of Ukraine. What a futile conflict.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 03:56 |
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The Artificial Kid posted:Just goes to show that in two and a half thousand years nobody will accurately remember the gay super soldiers of Ukraine. What a futile conflict. Wait, this is actually new. He stopped calling them nazis? Now they're just gay zombies waging a jihad?
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:00 |
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notwithoutmyanus posted:Wait, this is actually new. He stopped calling them nazis? Now they're just gay zombies waging a jihad? They're artificial political science gay nazi zombies waging a jihad: quote:“They have an artificial political science fascism created by American and British political technologists. They will turn them into zombies, into cult members. I think they will force some to become homosexuals,” Markov claimed.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:16 |
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Moon Slayer posted:Everyone shut up about whether or not 10,000 or 9,999 civilians have been killed in Mariupol, Russia has way more important news: "Theban band says Hi!!!"
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:56 |
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The next generation of ANTIFA supersoldiers
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 06:44 |
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James Garfield posted:They're artificial political science gay nazi zombies waging a jihad: Champions of a multipolar world just throwing all the slurs into a blender and pouring out an insult smoothie.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:06 |
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Akratic Method posted:The next generation of ANTIFA supersoldiers ANTIFA (at least in europe) is a Russian sponsored organization.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:29 |
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MikusR posted:ANTIFA (at least in europe) is a Russian sponsored organization. Ok. How do you imagine that works?
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:36 |
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If the next home raid of an anti-Russian homonazi doesn't reveal a collection of Army of Lovers records then I'm going to be mad with disappointment
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 09:11 |
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Slo-Tek posted:Ok. How do you imagine that works? I'm not sure about all of Europe, but my understanding is that in Russia and what Russia sees as it's sphere of influence ("near abroad"), the meaning of "fascism" has been deliberately reduced to being "anti-Russian". There's a really good effort post by vyelkin in C-SPAM, from the early days of the war, which still offers the most nuanced view of this that I have seen on these dead comedy forums. Read the entire post if you want, I've quoted the most salient part: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3994250&pagenumber=351&perpage=40#post521887113 quote:
And, case in point, here's a recent espionage arrest from Latvia: https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/crime/18.08.2023-suspected-taxi-driving-russian-spy-detained-by-latvian-security-service.a520678/ quote:"Along with the arrest, on August 15, the VDD conducted criminal procedural activities at the person's residence, during which several data carriers were found, as well as symbols confirming the person's pro-Kremlin ideological beliefs, such as the flags of Russia and the USSR," the VDD said.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 09:12 |
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Speaking of Russian interference in Europe, a Finnish right wing politician and former MP just returned from a trip to Russia and announced that he will be running for president. As his splinter party has no current members in parliament, they will have to collect 20k names in support of candidacy first. He says that they might receive help from Russia in that. I don't think that his handlers meant for him to say that part aloud...
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 09:16 |
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MikusR posted:ANTIFA (at least in europe) is a Russian sponsored organization. Antifa is not an organisation
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 09:16 |
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fatherboxx posted:Antifa is not an organisation Also the antifa paychecks are signed by Soros, not Putin.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 09:21 |
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Nenonen posted:Also the antifa paychecks are signed by Soros, not Putin. Weird how I've been to Antifa marches here in Europe and no-one there looked like they'd ever seen a paycheque, let alone one from Putin
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 09:31 |
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a podcast for cats posted:I'm not sure about all of Europe, but my understanding is that in Russia and what Russia sees as it's sphere of influence ("near abroad"), the meaning of "fascism" has been deliberately reduced to being "anti-Russian". Russia has tried to push that narrative for a long time, but Europe is not a place where it sticks.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 10:16 |
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MikusR posted:ANTIFA (at least in europe) is a Russian sponsored organization. Here in Greece we'd wish we had a sponsor writing us checks for being anti-fascists. Unfortunately, it's more of a hobby here. Soros, Putin and the NWO have forsaken us!
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 10:21 |
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James Garfield posted:“These renewed troops of Ukraine’s Armed Forces, zombified and unified through gay sex, along with cult members ready to sacrifice themselves. This is what they’re preparing for us in the spring 2025,” he added. So frustrating that the west keeps making this mistake. If we’d started zombifying and unifying last summer, the gay sex cult members would be ready this coming spring.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 11:34 |
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Russia has tried to push that narrative for a long time, but Europe is not a place where it sticks. quote:For a decade, Russia has submitted a text denouncing the 'glorification of Nazism', but the resolution was particularly unpopular this year due to the war in Ukraine.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 12:03 |
Any conclusions to be drawn from Robotyne? I'm seeing lots of heartwarming pictures on the Twitters but little strategic analysis.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 12:13 |
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MikusR posted:ANTIFA (at least in europe) is a Russian sponsored organization.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 12:30 |
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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:23 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Any conclusions to be drawn from Robotyne? I'm seeing lots of heartwarming pictures on the Twitters but little strategic analysis. My understanding is it has some strategic value for getting to Melitopol through Tokmak as it gives access to the main road on that path. Obviously, it's only step one.
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# ? Aug 22, 2023 12:44 |