Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

«‹›1435 »

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

# ? Aug 22, 2023 03:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 31, 2024 16:26

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal

quote:

The U.S. intelligence community assesses that Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to reach the key southeastern city of Melitopol, people familiar with the classified forecast told The Washington Post, a finding that, should it prove correct, would mean Kyiv won’t fulfill its principal objective of severing Russia’s land bridge to Crimea in this year’s push.

The grim assessment is based on Russia’s brutal proficiency in defending occupied territory through a phalanx of minefields and trenches, and is likely to prompt finger pointing inside Kyiv and Western capitals about why a counteroffensive that saw tens of billions of dollars of Western weapons and military equipment fell short of its goals.

Ukraine’s forces, which are pushing toward Melitopol from the town of Robotyne more than 50 miles away, will remain several miles outside of the city, U.S. officials said. U.S., Western and Ukrainian government officials interviewed for this report spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military operations.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment.

Melitopol is critical to Ukraine’s counteroffensive because it is considered the gateway to Crimea. The city is at the intersection of two important highways and a railroad line that allow Russia to move military personnel and equipment from the peninsula to other occupied territories in southern Ukraine.

Ukraine launched the counteroffensive in early June hoping to replicate its stunning success in last fall’s push through the Kharkiv region.

But in the first week of fighting, Ukraine incurred major casualties against Russia’s well-prepared defenses despite having a range of newly acquired Western equipment, including U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicles, German-made Leopard 2 tanks and specialized mine-clearing vehicles.

Joint war games conducted by the U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials.

But Ukraine chose to stem the losses on the battlefield and switch to a tactic of relying on smaller units to push forward across different areas of the front. That resulted in Ukraine making incremental gains in different pockets over the summer.

Kyiv has recently dedicated more reserves to the front, including Stryker and Challenger units, but has yet to break through Russia’s main defensive line.

The path to Melitopol is an extremely challenging one, and even recapturing closer cities such as Tokmak will be difficult, said Rob Lee, a military analyst with the Foreign Policy Research Institute.

“Russia has three main defensive lines there and then fortified cities after that,” he said. “It’s not just a question about whether Ukraine can breach one or two of them, but can they breach all three and have enough forces available after taking attrition to achieve something more significant like taking Tokmak or something beyond that.”

The bleak outlook, briefed to some Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill, has already prompted a blame game inside closed-door meetings. Some Republicans are now balking at President Biden’s request for an additional $20.6 billion in Ukraine aid given the offensive’s modest results. Other Republicans and, to a lesser extent, hawkish Democrats have faulted the administration for not sending more powerful weapons to Ukraine sooner.

U.S. officials reject criticisms that F-16 fighter jets or longer-range missile systems such as ATACMS would have resulted in a different outcome. “The problem remains piercing Russia’s main defensive line, and there’s no evidence these systems would’ve been a panacea,” a senior administration official said.

In an interview this week, Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the United States has been clear about the difficult task facing Ukraine.

“I had said a couple of months ago that this offensive was going to be long, it’s going to be bloody it’s going to be slow,” he told The Post. “And that’s exactly what it is: long, bloody and slow, and it’s a very, very difficult fight.”

While not achieving its objectives, he noted Kyiv’s success in degrading Russian forces. “The Russians are in pretty rough shape,” he said. “They’ve suffered a huge amount of casualties. Their morale is not great.”

U.S. officials said the Pentagon recommended multiple times that Ukraine concentrate a large mass of forces on a single breakthrough point. Though Ukraine opted for a different strategy, officials said it was Kyiv’s call to make given the profound sacrifice Ukrainian troops were making on the battlefield.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba on Thursday acknowledged the slow pace of Ukraine’s counteroffensive but said Kyiv would not stop fighting until all its land is retaken. “We don’t care how long it takes,” he told the news agency Agence France-Presse.

He encouraged critics of the offensive to “go and join the foreign legion” if they wanted faster results. “It’s easy to say that you want everything to be faster when you are not there,” he said.

Ukrainian officials have said privately that timing depends on how quickly forces can penetrate the minefields — a difficult process that has strained the military’s mine-clearing resources across a wide swath of territory.

Analysts say the challenges Ukraine has faced are multifaceted, but nearly all agree that Russia surpassed expectations when it comes to its proficiency in defending occupied territory.

“The most deterministic factor of how this offensive has gone thus far is the quality of Russian defenses,” said Lee, noting Russia’s use of trenches, mines and aviation. “They had a lot of time and they prepared them very well … and made it very difficult for Ukraine to advance.”

Questions have also been raised about how Ukraine committed its forces and in which areas.

The Ukrainians have for months poured tremendous resources into Bakhmut, including soldiers, ammunition and time, but they have lost control of the city and have made only modest gains in capturing territory around it. And while the close-in, trench-line fighting is different in Bakhmut from the problem of mines in the south, the focus has left some in the Biden administration concerned that overcommitting in the east may have eroded the potency of the counteroffensive in the south.

The new intelligence assessment aligns with a secret U.S. forecast from February indicating that shortfalls in equipment and force strength may mean that the counteroffensive will fall “well short” of Ukraine’s goal to sever the land bridge to Crimea by August. The assessment, detailed in a classified document leaked onto the social media app Discord, identified Melitopol or Mariupol as the objectives “to deny Russian overland access to Crimea.”

U.S. officials said Washington was still open to Kyiv surprising skeptics and overcoming the odds. One defense official said it is possible that Ukraine could buck historical norms and continue the counteroffensive through the winter, when everything including keeping soldiers warm and stocked with food and ammunition becomes much more difficult.

But that would rely on several important factors, such as the amount of rest troops need after a hard fighting season. It would also depend on how much specialized equipment and cold-weather clothing they have on hand, the defense official said. But Moscow may also outperform during winter military operations.

“Russians are known to be capable of fighting in cold weather,” the official said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/

Ukraine has only lovely options given how the counteroffensive has developed. One huge push that could get all their new gear destroyed and tons of people killed? Or keeping up the attack through the winter?

Of course, they could keep to their current strategy. But what effect would that have on foreign support and national morale?

William Bear fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:10

confused: Oct 3, 2003; It's just business.

William Bear posted:

U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/

Ukraine has only lovely options given how the counteroffensive has developed. One huge push that could get all their new gear destroyed and tons of people killed? Or keeping up the attack through the winter?

I wouldn't put much stock in a story based totally on unnamed intelligence sources. There is always an unknown agenda at play.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:17

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

the popes toes posted:

I enjoy your enthusiasm but I think you're projecting your wish for Russian dissolution. Russia xenophobia toward polities they aren't dominating isn't going to go away. They'll cut some mutually beneficial deals, but China isn't getting a colony, no. Russia and China both have nukes for the same reason.

It's not that I have a wish for it. The opposite actually IM COMPLETELY loving terrified that Russia could dissolve. In my mind Russian dissolution would be very very bad and probably one of the biggest catastrophies this century is going to see. I'm just stating that Ukraine is blowing up Russian factories which cannot be replaced. China can replace the production of those materials. They share a border with Russia and there's not much we can do about sanction avoidance by China. Especially through third party countries.

I mean do you see a way in which Russia would be able to get those factories back up and running anytime soon? Like are you saying that Russia is going to go through a Marshall plan and somehow become less dependent on China's manufacturing post war?

I just don't see that. I see Russia as continuing to be weaker and weaker and less able to keep foreign influence out of its borders. If Moscow cannot move goods into the east someone else will.

Russias economy and war machine are one in the same. It loves to send out arms to anyone who's not on the US weapons teat. Ukraine destroying those is having the double effect of making Russia's economy weaker when the weapons aren't going into the donbass but into Africa the ME and SEA.

The weird thing about what you are saying is the nukes thing. Like what? What the gently caress does that have to do with anything? China is willingly being let in. It's not like they're forcing Russia to take the turbojets or missile guidance system parts. Russia needs this poo poo to continue their war effort. They are willingly becoming dependent on China, for their war in Ukraine and soon, their grip on power. Because of Russia cannot get consumer goods to market that dissolution will happen. If they can keep the snacks, medical supplies and consumer goods flowing to the edges of their territory they can keep holding onto power.

If you aren't terrified of what dissolution would do to the world you are a lunatic. (not you pope, just as a general statement) I talk about it because at this point the longer the war goes on for and the more Ukraine is able to cripple Russia. The more likely that one of two things will happen, collapse, or crippling.

There is no way to go back to normal at this point. The economy is in tatters, the army is in tatters, the FSB wants to fire up marshal law and total mobilization, things are seriously not going back to normal.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:20

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

confused posted:

I wouldn't put much stock in a story based totally on unnamed intelligence sources. There is always an unknown agenda at play.

I think the agenda is pretty obvious. It's, "Ukraine didn't get enough gear earlier, so it needs to mass all its forces at one point and punch through, casualties be damned."

# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:26

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

William Bear posted:

U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/

Ukraine has only lovely options given how the counteroffensive has developed. One huge push that could get all their new gear destroyed and tons of people killed? Or keeping up the attack through the winter?

Of course, they could keep to their current strategy. But what effect would that have on foreign support and national morale?

the article posted:

The Ukrainians have for months poured tremendous resources into Bakhmut, including soldiers, ammunition and time, but they have lost control of the city and have made only modest gains in capturing territory around it. And while the close-in, trench-line fighting is different in Bakhmut from the problem of mines in the south, the focus has left some in the Biden administration concerned that overcommitting in the east may have eroded the potency of the counteroffensive in the south.

This is a very partisan way to describe what happened there. Losing control of Bakhmut was expected; the goal of putting resources there was to cause horrific casualties to the Russians at a favorable casualty ratio, which by all accounts they did. I was already put off by the way it was explaining everything else, but this is way out there and makes me uninterested in the opinion of whoever this source is.

confused posted:

I wouldn't put much stock in a story based totally on unnamed intelligence sources. There is always an unknown agenda at play.

This.

William Bear posted:

I think the agenda is pretty obvious. It's, "Ukraine didn't get enough gear earlier, so it needs to mass all its forces at one point and punch through, casualties be damned."

No, that's what the article claims the conclusion of U.S. observers was months ago. The agenda of the article looks more like legitimizing the West giving up on support - it's taking too long, they're misusing the resources we give them, etc - to me.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 04:32

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

tiaz posted:

No, that's what the article claims the conclusion of U.S. observers was months ago. The agenda of the article looks more like legitimizing the West giving up on support - it's taking too long, they're misusing the resources we give them, etc - to me.

I'm thinking the intended audience is in the Kremlin. "Don't do anything desperate, it'll all be okay."

# ? Aug 22, 2023 05:04

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

i keep wondering which western heads are demanding this be over tomorrow with a crushing victory. the us, germany, uk, netherlands, norway, etc - why do they care? like yes, obviously, it'd be betterish if this all sorted itself out before the end of the year because people could stop talking about it, but as long as it's NATO guns going over and getting blown up rather than NATO bodies, i genuinely am dumbfounded as to the rationale for pulling the plug here. could someone genuinely point me at a voting bloc that is going to defect against an elected head without a breakthrough in ukraine? nobody gives a poo poo in that way.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 05:23

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

At the very very least Canada, due to it's significantly large Ukrainian emigrate population (about 3% of the national pop) will keep funding and supporting. Any politician who even hints at pulling support would immediately lose the next election

# ? Aug 22, 2023 05:29

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

bunnyofdoom posted:

At the very very least Canada, due to it's significantly large Ukrainian emigrate population (about 3% of the national pop) will keep funding and supporting. Any politician who even hints at pulling support would immediately lose the next election

there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care?

# ? Aug 22, 2023 05:39

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Coolguye posted:

there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care?

My friend, remember, even in WWI before Zimmerman shot his and his countries dick off, it was a percieved similar situation to now with that added bonus of a neighboring country doing the fight too to generate sympathy and it was still touch and go if the US would stop sending weapons and supplies.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 05:47

the popes toes: Oct 10, 2004

The "intelligence community" is so ineffably large, and touches so many peripheral things, that just about any yahoo attention seeker can say they're in the IC and there is no end to attention seekers in DC.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 05:54

BrassRoots: Jan 9, 2012; You can play a shoestring if you're sincere - John Coltrane

Lammasu posted:

Is that how Sweden picks their prime minister? The guy with the most Swedish name? Kind of how Australia determines the prime minster with games of beer pong.

No one plays beer pong in Australia. And it's a sausage eating contest than you very much.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 06:24

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

Coolguye posted:

there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care?

Uh, have you considered that War is Bad???? Duh

# ? Aug 22, 2023 06:38

freelop: Apr 28, 2013; Where we're going, we won't need fries to see

the popes toes posted:

I enjoy your enthusiasm but I think you're projecting your wish for Russian dissolution. Russia xenophobia toward polities they aren't dominating isn't going to go away. They'll cut some mutually beneficial deals, but China isn't getting a colony, no. Russia and China both have nukes for the same reason.

China might not take the whole of Russia but I still find them renaming some cities in the East of Russia earlier in the year suspicious

https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/13560

That said I don't know how legit the source is, it does just say opinion

# ? Aug 22, 2023 06:47

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

The Russians have found the purpose of the biolabs

Elyv fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 06:53

Potrzebie: Apr 6, 2010; I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!; Lipstick Apathy

weg posted:

I'm curious what you mean by "three fifths of a human".

That's an interesting choice of fraction.

It looked better in my head, but reading it now it's tasteless and weird.

I should just call them monsters or something instead of trying to be "clever".

# ? Aug 22, 2023 06:54

tango alpha delta: Sep 9, 2011; Ask me about my wealthy lifestyle and passive income! I love bragging about my wealth to my lessers! My opinions are more valid because I have more money than you! Stealing the fruits of the labor of the working class is okay, so long as you don't do it using crypto. More money = better than!

Soooooo are the Ukrainian soldiers super because they are gay or are they gay because they are super? The article is very ambiguous about this very important detail.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:12

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

tango alpha delta posted:

Soooooo are the Ukrainian soldiers super because they are gay or are they gay because they are super?

Yes.

And yes.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:13

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

tango alpha delta posted:

Soooooo are the Ukrainian soldiers super because they are gay or are they gay because they are super? The article is very ambiguous about this very important detail.

i think they're supposed to have become super through gayness

which

sign me up for gayness i guess

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:13

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Thats my secret Bruce, Im always gay

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:14

TEMPLE GRANDIN OS: Dec 10, 2003; ...blyat

there's just no word for fabulous in russian

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:15

tango alpha delta: Sep 9, 2011; Ask me about my wealthy lifestyle and passive income! I love bragging about my wealth to my lessers! My opinions are more valid because I have more money than you! Stealing the fruits of the labor of the working class is okay, so long as you don't do it using crypto. More money = better than!

Barudak posted:

Thats my secret Bruce, Im always gay

Dr. Banner! Now might be a good time to get gay.

e:The Kremlin sure does seem to spend a considerable amount of time thinking and writing about man on man physical intimacy. Their obsession with gay sex is really loving odd.

tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:18

Samovar: Jun 4, 2011; When I want to relax, I read an essay by Engels. When I want something more serious, I read Corto Maltese.

No wonder the Russians are scared of this. Their biolabs only managed to produce the sacred band of dweebs.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:24

Von Pluring: Sep 19, 2003; Zelensky's Zealots; Pork Pro

Late reply here, regarding the Swedish prime ministers name issue - no, it's a very recent thing having PM's with more down-to-earth sounding middle or lower class names (the patronymic names ending with -son).

Before Ingvar Carlsson became PM when Olof Palme was shot they all had posh/noble names that aren't typically Swedish. There was not a single Andersson or Kristersson in sight.

In recent times we've also had PM's called stuff like Bildt and Reinfeldt.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:26

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Coolguye posted:

there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care?

Lots of people are eager to ally with the evil empire

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:45

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

Elyv posted:

The Russians have found the purpose of the biolabs

the missing ingredient to supersoldiers was.... gay?????????????

# ? Aug 22, 2023 07:51

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

Samovar posted:

sacred band of dweebs.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:03

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Targeted programs to increase unit cohesion and inclusivity would have the effect to make gays more visible, and to raise combat effectiveness, which is exactly why these programs were put in place to begin with. To an extremely stupid and bigoted observer, it could seem like these programs made people gay, as opposed to gay people always being there, always having been there, in your army too, of course, you idiot. To an extremely stupid and bigoted observer with a need to make excuses for failing military prowess, this could appear like the west is creating gay super soldiers.

Karate Bastard fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:08

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

confused posted:

I wouldn't put much stock in a story based totally on unnamed intelligence sources. There is always an unknown agenda at play.

WAPO is pretty reliable. And Ukraine clearly isn't going to make it to Melitopol by September. So I don't think it's wrong. But they're still gaining ground so I would call it not meeting targets rather than running out of steam.

It's a supply issue. We needed to be breaking out more good stuff for Ukraine over the winter, such as the fighter jets NATO are now supplying them.

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:09

bad_fmr: Nov 28, 2007

The West spent billions to create gay supersoldiers. Russia just used roosters.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:10

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Even some republicans are starting to argue that the west should stop half assing this and start shipping in bulk. That would be good I think. I think that would put a quicker end to this unnecessary war.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:13

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Nelson Mandingo posted:

WAPO is pretty reliable. And Ukraine clearly isn't going to make it to Melitopol by September. So I don't think it's wrong. But they're still gaining ground so I would call it not meeting targets rather than running out of steam.

It's a supply issue. We needed to be breaking out more good stuff for Ukraine over the winter, such as the fighter jets NATO are now supplying them.

Kofman commented on this in today's (or yesterday's, whatever timezones) War on the Rocks podcast. He basically was saying that it's unfair to judge the Ukrainians for playing by the rules that the West in part has set for them by not providing them with the required ammunition and equipment in a timely manner. He also pointed out that the US is often quick to boast about their involvement in planning and support when the Ukrainians are successful, but are quiet when things don't go as well.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:24

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

spankmeister posted:

Kofman commented on this in today's (or yesterday's, whatever timezones) War on the Rocks podcast. He basically was saying that it's unfair to judge the Ukrainians for playing by the rules that the West in part has set for them by not providing them with the required ammunition and equipment in a timely manner. He also pointed out that the US is often quick to boast about their involvement in planning and support when the Ukrainians are successful, but are quiet when things don't go as well.

I completely agree with that assessment. I'm not concerned for Ukraine's progress. That and Russia does understand that if they lose Melitopol, Ukraine will be able to safely rocket the Kerch bridge to dust.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:28

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Nelson Mandingo posted:

I completely agree with that assessment. I'm not concerned for Ukraine's progress. That and Russia does understand that if they lose Melitopol, Ukraine will be able to safely rocket the Kerch bridge to dust.

And hammer cargo shipments into Crimean ports.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:32

staberind: Feb 20, 2008; but i dont wanna be a spaceship; Fun Shoe

Toxic Mental posted:

Let's go with "may the Russians demine every mine they illegally placed on the way out".

I dont have any problem with this and gently caress you if you do.
spit reaction, mainly into your eye, probe or ban me, idgaf.

E: this may be missunderstood, i wish for them to become inconveniently widely dispersersed in a manner that is not condusive to continued life and i am quite satisfied with that outcome.
desertion is always an option or do what my grand dad did and join the effort to help the less bad weirdo's.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

staberind fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:41

CeeJee: Dec 4, 2001; Oven Wrangler

Nelson Mandingo posted:

WAPO is pretty reliable. And Ukraine clearly isn't going to make it to Melitopol by September. So I don't think it's wrong. But they're still gaining ground so I would call it not meeting targets rather than running out of steam.

It's a supply issue. We needed to be breaking out more good stuff for Ukraine over the winter, such as the fighter jets NATO are now supplying them.

A year ago that same paper, in fact the same journalist, wrote the Kherson offensive was going nowhere and Ukraine was suffering massive losses to the vastly superior Russian defenders.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:41

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

Coolguye posted:

there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care?

Have you considered that this "evil empire" thinking might label the child-murderers as bad people? The morally superior way is to just whistle loudly and look away.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:49

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

staberind posted:

I dont have any problem with this and gently caress you if you do.
spit reaction, mainly into your eye, probe or ban me, idgaf.

E: this may be missunderstood, i wish for them to become inconveniently widely dispersersed in a manner that is not condusive to continued life and i am quite satisfied with that outcome.
desertion is always an option or do what my grand dad did and join the effort to help the less bad weirdo's.

10-4, thanks for clarifying

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:52

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 31, 2024 16:26

staberind: Feb 20, 2008; but i dont wanna be a spaceship; Fun Shoe

Coolguye posted:

there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care?

Lol, every empire has been "evil" to those around it. and deffo to those who are opressed by them, ask any Indian or Irish about britain and is surprising how you hear much the same thing about their depravity.

Toxic Mental posted:

10-4, thanks for clarifying

You are certainly as welcome as I can possibly make you.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 08:56

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

«‹›1435 »