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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)
 
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lifetime supply of Pocky
Aug 19, 2003

CeeJee posted:

A year ago that same paper, in fact the same journalist, wrote the Kherson offensive was going nowhere and Ukraine was suffering massive losses to the vastly superior Russian defenders.

lmao i knew i recognized that stink

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boofhead
Feb 18, 2021

At this point with the counter offensive my mind is mostly just gravitating to a few vague points.

- it's 100% legitimate for Ukraine to minimise risk to their own forces, not just out of respect for the lives of their troops but also to conserve forces to defend against future counter offensives, since Russia still has significant territorial ambitions, regardless of realistic capacity. Ukraine doesn't want this going back and forth forever and keeping Russian dreams of empire alive. And the west is not supplying nearly enough support to throw everything they have at a big push and trust more is coming in time

- who really knows what the state of Russian forces and logistics and morale is behind the lines? I'm hoping that Russia has overcommitted to holding the front line at all costs and it turns out that there's a point in the not too distant future where cascading collapses start occurring which they can't adjust to in time, even if there are no real signs of it yet

- if it's going to become a long slog, manpower aside the conditions seem to slightly favour Ukraine, so long as sanctions remain sufficiently effective and western munitions manufacturing does eventually spool up and stay consistent to support that kind of fight

It would be lovely if there was a rupture point tomorrow and the war was over by Christmas, but risking everything on that is a gamble I wouldn't take myself and I fully support Ukraine in playing it as safe as they have been recently. It's not fair for the west to say "we want you to throw everything you have at this right now and see what happens because we want impressive results by autumn" unless they're also willing to commit unequivocally to fully replenishing Ukrainian battle power as soon as that fails, and I don't see 2000 tanks and planes and artillery and supplies waiting just on the border for that eventuality

zone
Dec 6, 2016


Turnabout, as they say, is fair play.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



You absolutely do not have to hand it to Finland's new right wing government, and you will never hear me say it. They have, however, accidentally stumbled onto a reasonable decision, by putting it into their government programme that Finland's support for Ukraine's independence and defence against Russia's illegal war of invasion is "absolute". They have also pledged that we will not give a single euro of support, or support of any other kind, to countries that support Russia's war.

Also, President Niinistö had a speech the other day about the situation, and Finland's ever deteriorating relationship with Russia. Translated here by me from Iltalehti.fi

quote:

Iltalehti pulled out five central points from Niinistö's speech to Finland's diplomats.

1. Russia is building an image of us as the enemy

According to Niinistö, it is not currently possible to have diplomatic relations with Russia.

- Russia is rapidly building an image of us as the enemy. They are primarily doing this for internal reasons, but the effects will be felt externally as well. They are turning cause and effect inside out, and making the invader into the victim, Finland and the West into a threat and danger. That is the twisted nature of Russia's war of information.

Finland has to prepare for attacks by Russia or its catspaws.

- We must prepare for malicious acts of various natures. Several types of cyber or hybrid attacks occur routinely. At the Polish and Latvian borders we are seeing the increasing pressure of illegal immigration. News from Sweden remind us to be vigilant of the threat of terrorism. We are not immune to this either. These times require for us and our allies to be ever watchful.

2. The United States are an important ally
Niinistö says that the Baltic Sea has almost become a Nato inland sea. Both in Nato and in direct relationships the United States are Finland's most important ally.

- Our relationship with the USA is stronger now than it ever has been, and it will become even stronger because of our bilateral defence co-operation agreement. Finland will continue to be primarily responsible for its own security, but we will do it as a member state of Nato and a close ally of its member states. Not only will this maximize our own security, but it will also strengthen the security of our allies, Niinistö comments on Finland's status as the border state betwen Nato and Russia.

Niinistö says that Finland's role in Nato's structures has been formally finalized.

- But the actual practical work is just beginning, he stresses.

3. The Nordic brand
Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland form a quintet, which their leaders will present as a united whole in the future.

- Being a Nordic state isn't merely a political framework for us, it's a very base level identity and set of values. It is a group of united nations, who are capable of working together and sharing responsibility. To help provide security for each other if called to. And to protect the values we hold dear.

In foreign and security policy, as well as in economics, the Nordic nations can work together in the world. Niinistö stresses the need to continue top level Nordic summits. It is possible to attract guests from the very top level of inflience in the world.

- The Nordic nations are attractive. In May I had the honour of hosting president Zelenskyy in Helsinki togethre with other Nordic prime ministers. In July we met again, this time also hosting the US President Joe Biden. I believe that in the future, the Nordic brand will bring us even closer together.

4. The calamity of climate change

According to Niinistö, the current summer has shown how urgent the danger of climate change has become, and how important it is to act now.

- Roasting heat waves and unprecedentedly strong wildfires have raged in places, while historic rains and floods cause damage elsewhere.

According to the President this is only a sign of what's to come, unless we control climate change now.

- We are on the verge of an irrevocable tilting point. In this situation everyone needs to wake up to the fact that there is no place on this Earth that could avoid serious difficulties.

The President stresses that climate change won't be controlled by making speeches, or just internally in Finland.

- We need far reaching global actions. We have been saying for a long time that this is the case, but they really cannot be delayed any further.

5. A battle for souls
The world is on the verge of breaking down into camps. BRICS nations, ie. Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa recently had their summit in South Africa.

- However, one was missing from the guest list. Russia's president Putin only participated remotely. This is a sign that the International Criminal Court has some power, Niinistö says.

Democracies must act globally, and not just by pointing fingers.

- We are in the middle of a battle for the souls of nations. You frequently hear it said that the West needs a better narrative. Clearly a good and clear story doesn't hurt, but the world isn't built on arguments alone. You need to back them up with clear actions, which show whose word is trustworthy and whose isn't.

6. The importance of Ukrainian independence to Finland
Niinistö brought up a Finnish diplomat Herman Gummerus, who served in Ukraine over 100 years ago. Back then Ukraine's independence was short lived, as bolsheviks forcibly brought the country into the Soviet Union.

- One of his central findings was the strong national identity and patriotism of Ukraine. He saw that Ukraine shouldn't have to settle for being subjugated, and also that Ukraine's freedom was in Finland's best interest.

Niinistö quoted Gummerus: "Us Finns will rejoice as Ukraine's fight for independence succeeds, as it is so strongly in the interests of our own country". According to Niinistö Ukraine's independence is still in Finland's best interest today.

- In many ways the world and Finland have changed, but these findings have not.

7. Diplomacy still has value
Ambassadors must continue peaceful diplomacy, even though Russia and certain other nations might not respond to them in a friendly way.

- Finland has never built its external and internal politics on military threats. The need for our own diplomacy has not gone down. Quite the opposite. We still believe in the power of dialogue and co-operation everywhere, where it is at all possible. We still seek to unite, not divide, and to increase mutual respect and trust. Going forward, Finland will still continue to try to find common denominators, even if they are the smallest.

Anders
Nov 8, 2004

I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you

tango alpha delta posted:

re: F-16's

Anyone mocking the F16 doesn't understand; Vipers are really, really loving loud and they shake the walls and knock things off shelves when they fly overhead. Don't underestimate how intimidating a combat fighter from the 1970's and early 80's can be.

I live in a place where NATO drills are fairly common - and low-flying F-16s are really loud yo

Burns posted:

Most importantly, the F-35 is an austhetically unpleasing fighter jet.
Also way too expensive and difficult to maintain for most nations

Elyv posted:

The Russians have found the purpose of the biolabs



Steve Rogers :gay: confirmed

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

lifetime supply of Pocky posted:

lmao i knew i recognized that stink

Back then it seemed to me like part of a disinformation campaign as the vatniks hailed it as proof the final victory was imminent. They thought:
-Ukraine had lost 95% or so of their army
-Western backers were forcing Zelensky to mount a doomed offensive to show any kind of offensive action
-Ukraine's last units were being destroyed
-All of Russia's efforts should be focused on Kherson where the final decisive battle was taking place and not be disctracted by some pinpricks at Kharkiv.

At the time of writing, probably the weeks before publication on September 7th 2022, the article was correct. The Kherson offensive was not going to take the city with the balance of forces at that time. But the big picture had already changed by the time it was published, the Antonovsky bridge was getting hammered and Russia was about to be pushed completely out Kharkiv oblast.

Jasper Tin Neck
Nov 14, 2008


"Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

Doomer WaPo journo posted:

Joint war games conducted by the U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials.
---
U.S. officials said the Pentagon recommended multiple times that Ukraine concentrate a large mass of forces on a single breakthrough point. Though Ukraine opted for a different strategy, officials said it was Kyiv’s call to make given the profound sacrifice Ukrainian troops were making on the battlefield.
Maybe the article is leaving something out but this makes the Pentagon sound wildly out of touch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblfKREj50o

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

They have also pledged that we will not give a single euro of support, or support of any other kind, to countries that support Russia's war.

You and me both know that this will not work one week before it becomes so politically weaponized its impossible position to hold. The current opposition starts to march into media a never-ending stream of refugees, famine-struck children and other victims "our government now actively hurts and refuses to help just because the local warlord/dictator for life president happens to support Russia and its not their fault". We will get another "FINLAND REFUSES AID" hit-piece headliner with starving children, and the news item completely omits the "...from those countries which openly support Russia"-part.

Forcing the government to back out because the optics are so catastrophically bad, and our world-healing muumimamma's cannot be reasoned with.

Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Aug 22, 2023

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Samovar posted:

Russia's Sacred Band of Dweebs.

:mods: pls

tiaz
Jul 1, 2004

PICK UP THAT PRESENT.


Zelensky's Zealots

Anders posted:

I live in a place where NATO drills are fairly common - and low-flying F-16s are really loud yo

All fighter jets are 110-140dB from 1000' away or something nuts like that. It just isn't a relevant metric to the performance of the vehicle, and so they're as loud as they are.



you have my vote for new thread title

tango alpha delta
Sep 9, 2011

Ask me about my wealthy lifestyle and passive income! I love bragging about my wealth to my lessers! My opinions are more valid because I have more money than you! Stealing the fruits of the labor of the working class is okay, so long as you don't do it using crypto. More money = better than!

tiaz posted:

All fighter jets are 110-140dB from 1000' away or something nuts like that. It just isn't a relevant metric to the performance of the vehicle, and so they're as loud as they are.

Unless you live under the flight path of a military base, then the Vipers are much, much louder. Most expensive alarm clock I ever had; provided by the United States Air Force.

Anders
Nov 8, 2004

I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you

tiaz posted:

All fighter jets are 110-140dB from 1000' away or something nuts like that. It just isn't a relevant metric to the performance of the vehicle, and so they're as loud as they are.
I'm confused - what was your point?

zone
Dec 6, 2016


Evil Ukronazis attacked critical Puccian infrastructure. Another war crime.

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat
Subscribe to SHOT?

Sounds a bit ambiguous. Should I?

Tai
Mar 8, 2006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IxwBh5wDF0

N00000KS!

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

I know, Daily Fail and 90-year old but still:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ft-CRASHED.html Russian astronomer who advised Putin's failed Luna-25 mission to the Moon is rushed to hospital over 'sharp deterioration in his health' - after unmanned spacecraft CRASHED

Maybe he still has time to fall out of a hospital window before the polonium kicks in?

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Der Kyhe posted:

Have you considered that this "evil empire" thinking might label the child-murderers as bad people? The morally superior way is to just whistle loudly and look away.

I hope the rabid Nazis running Russia have a wonderful, fun filled summer full of good vibes and hugs, and that this convinces them to fight the West at the marketplace of ideas, rather than in Ukraine. 💖 I'm very serious and my opinions should be taken seriously.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Btw, according to FR, Ukraine destroyed three boats in the Black Sea, though details are not available.

https://www.fr.de/politik/ukraine-zerstoert-schiffe-schwarzmeerflotte-russland-krim-sewastopol-92473942.html

Renreeja
Oct 11, 2007

Anders posted:

I live in a place where NATO drills are fairly common - and low-flying F-16s are really loud yo



I remember hearing the Pratt and Whitney engines are the worst on the ears sonically (the other being GE I think). My dads boss used to work for them, there was a tale from his time there when an engine blew up and the central shaft literally speared the big boss' desk

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Then what is stopping me from making GBS threads my own pants and being a poppy boy, this is correct?

Yes, these are our pants to poo poo and if we need to poo poo them, so be it.

Do you disagree?

If we poo poo our pants, we have to walk around with poo poo in them...

...but these are our pants are they not?

<cut to guy in a funny hat>

One might argue that they are already poo poo?

zone
Dec 6, 2016


Normal actions of normal law enforcement in a normal country.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1693918504699703641#m
Hit your own abandoned equipment and pass it off as the enemy's
great success, as Borat would say

zone fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Aug 22, 2023

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

"The kind of Russians in Londongrad, we won't feel bad if we nuke them"

Putin's entire crew: "what the gently caress"

zone
Dec 6, 2016


Sladkov appears to have gone completely insane. Near as I can make out, he's apparently talking about how Puccia got hosed on the Zaporizhzhia front.

Kennedy
Aug 1, 2006


hard to breathe?

This was a great read, thanks for translating. Overall that messaging feels super solid to me, how has it gone down in-country?

Ghost of Babyhead
Jun 28, 2008
Grimey Drawer

zone posted:


Sladkov appears to have gone completely insane. Near as I can make out, he's apparently talking about how Puccia got hosed on the Zaporizhzhia front.

Kennedy posted:

This was a great read, thanks for translating. Overall that messaging feels super solid to me, how has it gone down in-country?

This was a good pair of posts to read in succession.

Mistle
Oct 11, 2005

Eckot's comic relief cousin from out of town
Grimey Drawer

Elyv posted:

The Russians have found the purpose of the biolabs




Please send me a big strong gay Ukrainian super soldier lady, I wouldn't mind being protected :blush:

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat
Big gay gonna crush frail masculine russia.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Mistle posted:

Please send me a big strong gay Ukrainian super soldier lady, I wouldn't mind being protected :blush:

"The homo western soldiers are weaklings!" - Russia

"OMG Brainwashed homo-ubermensch Are the only reason we can't win!" - Also Russia.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1693533407454572789#m

Jimlit
Jun 30, 2005




this wouldn't have been an issue if you fled the country instead of becoming a murderer.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

Soylovyov had a few things to say about Ukraine finally receiving F-16s:
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1693755609550586165

Tafferling
Oct 22, 2008

DOOT DOOT
ALL ABOARD THE ISS POLOKONZERVA

zone posted:


Normal actions of normal law enforcement in a normal country.

They are probably saving him some money by taking Rubles off his hands before they become negative value.

All joking aside, I think you would be arrested even in the usa if you started tearing off nazi insignias from some random nazi's shirt.
Best you can do is notify the cops.
If the cops are siding with the nazis then start tearing away but uhhhh... good luck and don't get caught i suppose.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

zone posted:


Evil Ukronazis attacked critical Puccian infrastructure. Another war crime.

So Ukraine took care of the SHOTs, now they need to do the CHASERs

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1693910507021906232.html
New thread by Chris_O where the anti-drone units in Moscow complain about the poor quality of anti-drone guns and EW systems.

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Prettz posted:

You can fire an AMRAAM off into the distance with no radar lock, but you'll be assuming it won't hit anything. If letting the missile lock onto a target by itself was reliable they'd do it all the time.

You do want to have a lock when you launch, but if they are shooting at helicopters (and helicopters have been the most troubling CAS asset the Russians have used for a while now), you can then immediately break the lock and leave, because then the missile will target based on last known position and velocity, and against something as slow as a helicopter that's enough.

ded posted:

the missing ingredient to supersoldiers was.... gay?????????????

smh, the Thebans knew this literally 2300 years ago.

Tai
Mar 8, 2006
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1693953760265978241

They seem pretty happy to see the Ukraine army despite voting 96% in favour to join Russia forever.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Tai posted:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1693953760265978241

They seem pretty happy to see the Ukraine army despite voting 96% in favour to join Russia forever.

Hah! Typical that they'd only show the 4% against...

poverty goat
Feb 15, 2004



the ruscists are just out of frame, scowling

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

staberind posted:

Lol, every empire has been "evil" to those around it. and deffo to those who are opressed by them, ask any Indian or Irish about britain and is surprising how you hear much the same thing about their depravity.

You are certainly as welcome as I can possibly make you.

Woosh

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tiaz
Jul 1, 2004

PICK UP THAT PRESENT.


Zelensky's Zealots

Anders posted:

I'm confused - what was your point?

Yeah, sorry, that was worded vaguely and what I intended wasn't even a really relevant observation. What I meant to say is that all fighters are exceptionally loud, and while it is loud in comparison to many other aircraft the F-16 is not particularly louder than other fighters. White noise posting, ironically!

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