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It's in the middle. Self checkouts do take jobs but they are taking away jobs you can't support yourself on anyway.
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Aug 22, 2023 07:28
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Similarly, the problem with automatic washing machines isn't that they're 'labor saving devices', it's that they put hundreds of thousands of washerwomen out of work and then convinced people that the aspirational lifestyle was to buy something from a company and do the work yourself. But the actual failure was a society that didn't want to consider providing any better way of making a living for those hundreds of thousands of women, and at least forcing that led to a more permanent change in the idea of gender and work than any number of riveter posters. 
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Aug 22, 2023 09:20
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While you're right about the negatives of automatic washers, Automatic washers actually reduce the human labor needed to do the laundry though, so it's not like self checkout. The equivalent analogy to self checkout would be a self-washer where you still pay the laundry the same amount, but they fired their washerpeople so you go in and wash the clothes yourself while a janky scale beeps at you if it thinks you're sneaking in more dirty clothes than you rang up.
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Aug 22, 2023 13:56
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The ones here are just
That's less labor for both parties. I've seen the ones with sensitive scales and so on but people really don't like their checkout experience to be  Demand less lovely self checkouts and better employment rights.
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Aug 22, 2023 14:13
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I absolutely can’t stand the self checkouts that have a computer voice barking instructions at me, it’s loving dehumanizing. I’ll never use a self checkout. If they try and force me to I’ll put my basket down on the floor and walk straight out the door.
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Aug 22, 2023 14:21
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Guavanaut posted:That's less labor for both parties. It’s definitely fewer steps when enumerated like that, but beyond asking questions about their coupon program I don’t see how it’s less work
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Aug 22, 2023 14:23
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Because picking something up, moving it a bit to the right, and putting it down somewhere else is less work than me having to do that twice and another person once. e: Fornax Disaster posted:I absolutely can’t stand the self checkouts that have a computer voice barking instructions at me, it’s loving dehumanizing. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Aug 22, 2023 |
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Aug 22, 2023 14:27
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Guavanaut posted:The ones here are just The advantage of self-checkout is that the lines or shorter or non-existent at off-peak times because the store will keep more of them open when they don't have to pay an employee to man each one. And all the stores that make cashiers ask me for a loyalty card also make me answer the same pop-up question on the self-checkout before I can pay VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 22, 2023 |
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Aug 22, 2023 14:39
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VitalSigns posted:If self-checkouts used some RFID magic to total up everything in your cart instantly as you walked by then the arguments about labor-saving devices freeing us from menial jobs would make sense, but it's literally just telling you to use the same equipment the cashier has, but with an extra weight sensor to waste your time to make it a bit harder for you to steal, and a lack of control in the UI to waste your time if you're buying alcohol or the system just fucks up and needs an employee to punch a code in. Much less efficient but the costs are shifted to you, someone loses their job, and the store gets more profit Strange as you may say this, this was a plan in the UK about 10 years ago or so. The idea being that every product would have an RFID so not only could you do shipping as you say, but stock takes could be done basically instantaneously. It was deemed too expensive at the time and will likely remain so.
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Aug 22, 2023 14:42
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Yeah RFID magic checkout was being touted as the wave of the future here too back when RFID was the hot thing, that's why it came to my mind.
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Aug 22, 2023 14:53
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VitalSigns posted:It's not though, if self checkout were more efficient they could rip out the conveyer belts and set up all the counters like that and get everyone through faster. That's what's happened to most large stores where I live.
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Aug 22, 2023 14:56
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The grocery story up the road from the house has gone almost exclusively self-check-out, they have between one and three employees left in the whole store who are supposed to stock the shelves and handle deliveries and monitor all self check-out activity to control theft, and they are held personally responsible for all theft in the store. When a certain threshold is reached they fire the employee for "allowing" too much theft and try to rotate in a new person. The turnover is insane, the staff are being run ragged, and the place has gone from being clean and well-stocked to looking like a garbage dump. When it goes out of business there just won't be a grocery store here anymore, just a few convenience stores that charge twice as much for half the size.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:12
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generatrix posted:That's what's happened to most large stores where I live. Really? I haven't seen that here because if you have a full grocery cart it's faster to set stuff out while you're waiting in line and if stuff is set out a conveyer to move it to the scanner is convenient. Grocery stores where I live used to have express counters without a conveyer because all that's not necessary for 15 items but they've all been replaced by self checkout
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Aug 22, 2023 15:19
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After an initial period of hating them because they malfunctioned all the time, the staff at my local coop actually like the self checkouts because they hated the shifts of checkout work. What they don't like are the headsets that allow a constant all day group zoom call with staff hopping in and out. That was a replacement for the storewide "Joe to the tobacco kiosk" announcements, but because you can do it all day without interrupting the store radio then some people do. Most of this is more about lovely management though.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:22
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Tsietisin posted:Strange as you may say this, this was a plan in the UK about 10 years ago or so. The idea being that every product would have an RFID so not only could you do shipping as you say, but stock takes could be done basically instantaneously. Didn't Amazon actually set up a few pseudo-bodegas like this in NYC a few years back too? I seem to remember an article in the past year or so talking about the last one closing down like it was the end of an era.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:44
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A co-op where it's just a convenience for the employees and the business doesn't fire anyone or cut anyone's hours to capture that benefit back for the executives is probably the one special situation where it doesn't seem like a problem.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:46
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VitalSigns posted:Really? I haven't seen that here because if you have a full grocery cart it's faster to set stuff out while you're waiting... Yeah, all the bit box stores, and most of the big grocery stores have ripped out 75% of the regular lanes and replaced them with big self-checkout areas. It's way faster to get through. They all have mostly large areas where you can fit a whole load of groceries in the bagging area, with a few of the small ones for people that only have a few items. With traditional checkout, unloading to the conveyor can only happen after waiting in line and getting to the point where I'm either the next or current person, so that's about the same, except I feel rushed by everyone around me and have to entertain the cashier. Bagging and reloading the cart is also about the same as far as work goes, but again with the anxiety of holding up everyone who's waiting and also still needing to make small talk with the cashier. Self checkout is way less stressful, it's faster for me, the lines move faster, it's roughly the same amount of work except it's me waving stuff at the scanner instead of someone else, and I can do it all with music playing instead of needing to talk to someone. The self checkout process is overwhelmingly better from what I've seen, and I'm a bit shocked to hear how poorly it's done in other places. Stores cutting staff to a minimum and expecting three people to do everything is bullshit and they shouldn't be doing that, but it's not an inherent part of self-checkout.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:50
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I mean hell, my grocery store has a mobile app that you can scan your purchases as you pick them up to tally them up and apply coupons, and then you go through the "5 items or less" line and dump 50 items in it with a qr scan on the machine. It's not ultra efficient since often you have to have a worker scan a few items in your cart randomly as a "not stealing stuff" check but that gets less frequent as you use it. The only issue with the app is that the scanner is super sensitive and if you leave it on while you're moving around it'll scan the codes of items on shelves. I want to have grocery shopping be as close to just shoplifting as I can legally make it and things like that are a good step.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:57
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VitalSigns posted:A co-op where it's just a convenience for the employees and the business doesn't fire anyone or cut anyone's hours to capture that benefit back for the executives is probably the one special situation where it doesn't seem like a problem. Every rear end in a top hat who's read some Elon Musk
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Aug 22, 2023 15:58
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Talking to retail employees is emotional labor
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Aug 22, 2023 16:01
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I have to wait in longer lines now because I don't want to get arrested when some store uses grainy security footage to decide I must be the person who stole an Xbox or something in self checkout. But I don't mind, I use that time to catch up on my crazy political emails.
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Aug 22, 2023 17:23
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generatrix posted:Yeah, all the bit box stores, and most of the big grocery stores have ripped out 75% of the regular lanes and replaced them with big self-checkout areas. It's way faster to get through. They all have mostly large areas where you can fit a whole load of groceries in the bagging area, with a few of the small ones for people that only have a few items. That's a part that gets overlooked in discussion. A lot of people just like self-checkout if the time is equal since they'd rather keep their hands busy and avoid interaction with people. But in the end the experience depends on how much the store does it to cut corners and how little they trust their customers. I've been to places with understaffed lanes and self-checkouts with aggressive anti-theft hassles and all your options suck. But then I go to Wegmans and it's great since they keep all their aisles staffed so they move quickly, then also have some self-checkout lanes that are good if you just need a few things.
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Aug 22, 2023 17:37
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I like self checkout and understaffed stores. You can just flat walk out the door with a cart of groceries it rules
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Aug 22, 2023 17:48
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PerniciousKnid posted:I have to wait in longer lines now because I don't want to get arrested when some store uses grainy security footage to decide I must be the person who stole an Xbox or something in self checkout. https://www.businessinsider.com/in-every-reported-false-arrests-based-on-facial-recognition-that-person-has-been-black-2023-8
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Aug 22, 2023 17:54
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Didn't Amazon actually set up a few pseudo-bodegas like this in NYC a few years back too? I seem to remember an article in the past year or so talking about the last one closing down like it was the end of an era. Yes, but that ran on some proprietary machine learning tech Amazon uses in its fulfillment centers. Don't remember all the nitty gritty details but it was some combo of scales in the shelves + machine vision that tracked the item going from the shelf into the basket. No RFID as far as I can remember... Maybe the baskets were RFID tagged for when you walk out the front?
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Aug 22, 2023 18:08
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DrHammond posted:Yes, but that ran on some proprietary machine learning tech Amazon uses in its fulfillment centers. Don't remember all the nitty gritty details but it was some combo of scales in the shelves + machine vision that tracked the item going from the shelf into the basket. No RFID as far as I can remember... Maybe the baskets were RFID tagged for when you walk out the front? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS9U3Gc832Y
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Aug 22, 2023 18:30
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The tech is pretty good at figuring out where a hand goes and what it picks up/drops off, but considering historical, uhh, issues, with facial recognition... There's no way Amazon didn't pay money for that SNL skit, fukkin lmao.
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Aug 22, 2023 19:18
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It was a decent skit but it definitely felt in hock to amazon. it never questioned or subverted the straight-man backbone of the video being an outright advertisement for amazon go in any way. Similar vibes to Mattel in the Barbie movie, but worse, probably.
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Aug 22, 2023 21:46
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Self checkout is great when you have like, 5 items. If I have a cart, or alcohol, I want a cashier. It also depends on where you are. Trying to ring up alcohol in Colorado at a self checkout will get your arms chopped off. Nebraska sort of barely looks at your ID and moves on. Then there are the places where you bag your own stuff, like Aldi. And places like Fareway where unless you have just a bag or two worth of items, they bag it for you, roll your stuff out to the car, load it up, and take the cart back to the store. Fareway costs about 50% more than Aldi.
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Aug 22, 2023 23:40
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Fornax Disaster posted:I absolutely can’t stand the self checkouts that have a computer voice barking instructions at me, it’s loving dehumanizing. I didn't think about this at first but everyone should probably get ready for self checkouts barking and screaming ads at you soon like gas pumps do. So that'll be fun. I also signed up for Walgreens auto notify feature that lets me know when a prescription is ready and now I'm getting loving telemarketing sales calls from them. Wait...I thought this was the Tech Nightmares thread.
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Aug 22, 2023 23:59
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IDK how it is for other places but where I am all the self checkouts have volume control and you can just mute them. I always do this
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Aug 23, 2023 00:14
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Aug 23, 2023 15:58
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I've heard a rumor (from a non-doctor and non-chud friend) that masks might be coming back in September. I don't know what makes him think so, but if the rumor turns out to be true it won't go over well...
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Aug 23, 2023 16:02
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I've heard a rumor (from a non-doctor and non-chud friend) that masks might be coming back in September. I don't know what makes him think so, but if the rumor turns out to be true it won't go over well... Yeah I've seen that in a few places. Gonna be exhausting.
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Aug 23, 2023 16:06
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I've heard a rumor (from a non-doctor and non-chud friend) that masks might be coming back in September. I don't know what makes him think so, but if the rumor turns out to be true it won't go over well... There's a new, more-infectious strain out there, and a new line of boosters is set to be released. Conspiracists, most notably Alex Jones, have connected some dots and are banging the drums that they've all heard from people who have heard from industry and government whistleblowers, that they are going to institute full lockdowns by September and we'll have to fight *cough nonviolently cough* back. Now, is it an entirely-unreasonable thing to think that we might see, say, airlines and hospitals institute a temporary mask mandate if things get hairy? Not at all. But "psst hey March 2020 is gonna happen again, get your gadsden flag ready" is riling up the chuds, and it's filtering into the general public.
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Aug 23, 2023 16:29
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I always love the "we'll have lockdowns again!!!!" We never had lockdowns. We had limited businesses open but you compare our "lockdowns" to other countries and it's comical.
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Aug 23, 2023 16:31
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:There's a new, more-infectious strain out there, and a new line of boosters is set to be released. Conspiracists, most notably Alex Jones, have connected some dots and are banging the drums that they've all heard from people who have heard from industry and government whistleblowers, that they are going to institute full lockdowns by September and we'll have to fight *cough nonviolently cough* back. Even if Captain Trips became a real thing, I doubt we'll ever see a March 2020 situation ever again, no matter how necessary it would be in that scenario.
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Aug 23, 2023 16:31
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There could be a new bubonic plague, and we still would not have lockdowns.
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Aug 23, 2023 16:36
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Even if Captain Trips became a real thing, I doubt we'll ever see a March 2020 situation ever again, no matter how necessary it would be in that scenario. I'm sure it's been brought up and the idea is "what's the point, they're not going to do it anyways". You could get away with mandating that all businesses must allow their employees to wear masks but they must know that another widespread mandate would be met with literal riots from people whose online-ness will become literally terminal.
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Aug 23, 2023 16:38
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Well for Alex Jones, making these claims is win-win. If any mask "mandate" comes back, no matter how small-scale or temporary, he can smugly say #AlexJonesWasRight and portray the government as tyrannical monsters. In the likely event that nothing really happens, he can proudly congratulate his audience, because they raised such a stink about it, the globalist knew that they couldn't institute a mask mandate without the people rising up. In that case, he can portray the government as pushover weaklings. 
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Aug 23, 2023 16:48
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