(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
|
IDK if it gets brought up itt, but what's going to happen long term with grain exports from Ukraine? I don't think they're doing much planting and harvesting given the war is happening so they're probably selling whatever is in storage and it looks like that's getting blocked too. What happens to the countries that rely on that grain when it gets cut off for years?
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
Rad-daddio posted:IDK if it gets brought up itt, but what's going to happen long term with grain exports from Ukraine? I don't think they're doing much planting and harvesting given the war is happening so they're probably selling whatever is in storage and it looks like that's getting blocked too. They've been farming and harvesting. They did even in 2022 when the situation was much more precarious.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:17
|
|
|
If you think Ukraine will get to Melitopol before Rasputitsa, I admire your optimism and hope you're right. But I wouldn't put any money on it. Rob Lee outlined some of the reasons why the current situation is more difficult for Ukraine than during the liberation of Kherson. https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1692652010267390083?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:19
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:there's GENUINELY no downside. i simply don't see it. russia has been the ""evil empire"" for generations. these countries have found a way to oppose the ""evil empire"" without making a single widow or orphan among their constituents. they even found a way to accomplish it without spending very much money since it's all bullshit they had in warehouses. and apparently, they're going to suddenly go the other way because it takes a year longer than they kinda felt like it was? why would they care? In the US Russia was the "evil empire" in the cold war but the 1990s was a total victory lap of how the Soviet Union had been defeated without a shot being fired, Eastern Europe was free, and Russia was our democratic ally now. That was a big part of how the right managed to deify Reagan too, casting his foreign policy as what had struck the killing blow. After that, sure the right would grumble at Russia when it tried to present itself as an actual rival to the US since of course it's gotta be #2 (why we need to spend more on defense!) but the evil empire stuff moved to China, Iran, whoever else caught the eye of American nationalists. But Russia? Not as much. Russian gangsters sure, but not the state. As Putin got more autocratic and more anti-Western in his rhetoric that made a little bit of split on the right but not as bad as you'd think, because while they don't want anyone trash-talking America they really love to see strong right-wing leaders and can excuse some of it as nationalist kayfabe. Getting in bed with the church and pushing right wing culture war stuff sealed the deal. The war hawks always wanted another big power to saber rattle against but they've been on the outs since Iraq soured and until 2022 there wasn't anything actionable enough for them other than to panic and rage whenever Russia sent fighters on maneuver close to the border like that hadn't happened a hundred times before. In short: the right fully embraced "The Soviet Union was the evil empire because they were communist!" to an extent that puts them at odds with those who opposed the Soviet Union as an oppressive imperial power that would not have been okay if it had stockbrokers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:21
|
|
|
Remember General Armageddon? https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1694007743391117582?s=20 Additional confirmation: https://www.rbc.ru/politics/22/08/2023/64e4dab49a794799c04141a8
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:23
|
|
|
Wasn't that the guy who ruthlessly barrel bombed his way across Syria?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
Surovikin is an actually skilled and quite good commander when he isn't being asked to do the impossible with vaporware. Ukraine's military is likely feeling a bit relieved at that.Tai posted:Wasn't that the guy who ruthlessly barrel bombed his way across Syria? Yes. Surovikin's methods are primitive and brutal but effective under the circumstances. Had Surovikin not had a morally inept army rotten with corruption his tenure as the theater commander would have been a lot worse for Ukraine HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
beer_war posted:Remember General Armageddon?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:35
|
|
|
Pander posted:it's impressive how many russian generals look like vincent d'onofrio trying to cosplay Dr. Evil. I can't unsee this now, that's uncanny
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:38
|
|
|
Pander posted:it's impressive how many russian generals look like vincent d'onofrio trying to cosplay Dr. Evil. Russian fighter pilots are also funny. American pilots look like Greek gods, Russian pilots look like 50 years old dads wholet themselves go 30 years ago and drink a case of beer every night.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:39
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:Russian fighter pilots are also funny. American pilots look like Greek gods, Russian pilots look like 50 years old dads wholet themselves go 30 years ago and drink a case of beer every night. wait till you see the clips of russian pilots playing volleyball...
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:44
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:Yes. Surovikin's methods are primitive and brutal but effective under the circumstances. Had Surovikin not had a morally inept army rotten with corruption his tenure as the theater commander would have been a lot worse for Ukraine Wasn't he content just bombin civilians a little more once he was in charge of Ukraine, accomplishing not much in the process?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:In the US Russia was the "evil empire" in the cold war but the 1990s was a total victory lap of how the Soviet Union had been defeated without a shot being fired, Eastern Europe was free, and Russia was our democratic ally now. That was a big part of how the right managed to deify Reagan too, casting his foreign policy as what had struck the killing blow. After that, sure the right would grumble at Russia when it tried to present itself as an actual rival to the US since of course it's gotta be #2 (why we need to spend more on defense!) but the evil empire stuff moved to China, Iran, whoever else caught the eye of American nationalists. But Russia? Not as much. Russian gangsters sure, but not the state. a lot of other countries that are providing materiel didn't even have that break. norway sure as gently caress didn't. yeah sure there's some very loud psychos in all of these countries that love sucking off putin's rapidly decaying dick because it is the most autocratic strong daddy dick in the room but looking at the political landscape on the countries i am familiar with at least, those people are not making any decisions. even the other nationalist psychos that are electing far-right governments in, for example, finland are not listening to them. i don't even buy the donny t argument that someone probably has on their tongue in here for an instant; just go read any 5 pages of the trump lol thread to get a look at how THAT'S going. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
Obama dragged Mitt Romney during the 2012 election for saying that Russia was the US's greatest geopolitical foe. Then there was the invasion of Crimea and intervening on the side of the autocrats in the Syrian Civil War. I really hate when I have to agree with Mitt Romney
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:01
|
|
|
rowkey bilbao posted:Wasn't he content just bombin civilians a little more once he was in charge of Ukraine, accomplishing not much in the process? He tried to unfuck the situation logistically and his primary mission at that time was to secure the territory they had already occupied in advance of the four sham referendums in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk. That's how we ended up getting the Surovikin line that has been such a pain in the rear end to deal with in this counteroffensive. For what he was ordered to do, he did it pretty well. Then uh, Kherson counteroffensive happened, and despite Surovikin doing the militarily correct things in response, Putin shitcanned him for the humiliation of losing Kherson even though it wasn't really possible to hold and why Surovikin ordered the withdrawal across the Dnipro in the first place in Kherson oblast
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:04
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:Obama dragged Mitt Romney during the 2012 election for saying that Russia was the US's greatest geopolitical foe. Then there was the invasion of Crimea and intervening on the side of the autocrats in the Syrian Civil War. Keep in mind that was basically the absolute height of ISIS-Al Qaeda activity, and at the time, Obama was probably right
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:07
|
|
|
Toxic Mental posted:Keep in mind that was basically the absolute height of ISIS activity, and at the time, Obama was probably right Not quite - ISIS in 2012 was pledged to Al Qaeda and was hanging out in Iraq as part of the insurgency, but they weren't a major group and didn't become a regional threat until late 2014 when they started taking over huge swathes of Iraq and Syria. Obama ridiculed Romney about Russia being a threat because Obama had terminal lib brain and fully subscribed to the end of history narrative, which is why he picked the uber smug quote:The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years. to mock Romney with. Oops!
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:10
|
|
|
i mean in theory China is our biggest rival and would have been at that point as well but russia just seems to have an inclination for loving with things even to their own detriment
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:21
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1693562924307247254quote:Yesterday, a Pro-Russian demonstration took place in Köln, Germany. The small demonstration of around 40 cars was greeted by 2 counter demonstrations. It was a total flop for the (Pro-)Russian organizers. They hoped to reach at least 200 cars. The counter demonstrations were attracting more people. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:28
|
|
|
Russia took one look at that dammned tan suit on Obama and decided they had an open lane to restart the old rivalry and crank it up to low heat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:28
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:Not quite - ISIS in 2012 was pledged to Al Qaeda and was hanging out in Iraq as part of the insurgency, but they weren't a major group and didn't become a regional threat until late 2014 when they started taking over huge swathes of Iraq and Syria. Obama ridiculed Romney about Russia being a threat because Obama had terminal lib brain and fully subscribed to the end of history narrative, which is why he picked the uber smug I don't even dislike Obama, but his foreign policy towards Russia specifically was horribly shortsighted and extremely neoliberal. The minute we had evidence of Russia interfering in our elections (as well as Crimea) we should have responded a lot more harshly. Neolib brain is absolutely true
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:47
|
|
|
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/08/22/7416591/quote:Russian regions have reported empty petrol stations, and this concerns not just AI-95 and AI-92 petrol, which previously set a historical record for price growth, but also diesel. POCCNR is winning so much regions with oil refineries are now running short on petrol and prices have gone sky high.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:58
|
|
|
They have their own oil and refineries, how can they gently caress up this bad?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
Well poo poo, I’ve just arrived in Cologne. Missed it!
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
Would love to shout Putin khuylo at them for a bit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:10
|
|
|
Rail delays eh? Maybe the FSB should setup gas stations
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:12
|
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:I don't even dislike Obama, but his foreign policy towards Russia specifically was horribly shortsighted and extremely neoliberal. He should have imposed a no fly zone over syria.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
spankmeister posted:They have their own oil and refineries, how can they gently caress up this bad? quote:"The fall in the value of the Russian rouble makes exports of oil products even more profitable than their sales to the domestic market, so oil companies are trying to increase export supplies, creating a deficit in the domestic market," Chernov said. As usual, somebody's selling it. And probably taking a share of the profits.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:29
|
|
|
Russia was an ~ally in democracy~ because vast amounts of wealth were transferred by post Soviet gangsters into the west for safekeeping. There's still time to punish the collaborators responsible (they're not hard to spot, for example)    
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:38
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:Obama dragged Mitt Romney during the 2012 election for saying that Russia was the US's greatest geopolitical foe. Then there was the invasion of Crimea and intervening on the side of the autocrats in the Syrian Civil War. Ehh...I don't know if Obama was wrong. My position is that Russia is a regional power with limited projection capabilities. They weren't utterly toothless, obviously, but I'd venture to say China was/is more a 'greatest geopolitical rival.' Russia had some int'l sway due to an established weapons manufacturing business held over from the Soviet days, and their oil exports, but their alliances didn't run deep. Of course, a regional power seeking to flex is still extremely dangerous if you happen to be in that region. And especially if you essentially lacked a trained military worthy of the name. Edit: Their nuclear arsenal is really the only thing worthy of a "rival" designation, and that's a defensive guarantor only. Unless/until Putin or his successor goes batshit insane(r). OAquinas fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:48
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:Ehh...I don't know if Obama was wrong. My position is that Russia is a regional power with limited projection capabilities. They weren't utterly toothless, obviously, but I'd venture to say China was/is more a 'greatest geopolitical rival.' Russia had some int'l sway due to an established weapons manufacturing business held over from the Soviet days, and their oil exports, but their alliances didn't run deep. Well, Russia has recently invaded or is loving around in *Chechnya Georgia Ukraine Syria Mali Burkina Faso Ukraine Niger(?) China: Makes propaganda videos about Taiwan I guess China at least has a somewhat functional carrier so they have that going for them at least
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:00
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:Ehh...I don't know if Obama was wrong. My position is that Russia is a regional power with limited projection capabilities. They weren't utterly toothless, obviously, but I'd venture to say China was/is more a 'greatest geopolitical rival.' Russia had some int'l sway due to an established weapons manufacturing business held over from the Soviet days, and their oil exports, but their alliances didn't run deep. The nuclear arsenal is the sole and also most important reason they are a superpower and not a regional power. That detail really does make all the difference because if you can end global civilization on your own, by definition you are a global power. Also how the gently caress does the third largest oil producing nation have empty pumps in their own loving country???? lmao mobby_6kl posted:
china is currently engaged in colonization of tibet and is terraforming new chinese territory in the south china sea by artificially creating islands. China has decided to direct its imperialist ambitions inward for the most part after seeing Russia walk into a buzzsaw in Ukraine and going, "hmm maybe taiwan, actually, can wait" I have no doubt that if the SMO had really been a 3 day operation with Russia achieving every goal it set for itself and received no pushback from the west (a Crimea scenario) then China would take action on Taiwan sooner rather than later. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:04
|
|
|
Imperial Glory is a substitute good for petrol, citizen. Just walk everywhere while dreaming of Mother Russia.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:09
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:The nuclear arsenal is the sole and also most important reason they are a superpower and not a regional power. That detail really does make all the difference because if you can end global civilization on your own, by definition you are a global power. Dachas don't pay for themselves! The grift and graft of Russian oligarchs is part of the function of the state. It's a bunch of Russian mobsters running the country. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
china does tons of loving around in the region outside of taiwan. countries as far away as pakistan get the same bullshit bully-boy treatment that russia pulled in ukraine, shutting off power and disrupting services just to prove a point. they're also actively engaged in a genocide of uyghur muslims and have been historically involved in the religious suppression/half-genocide of the followers of the dali llama in tibet. their crime, universally, is being insufficiently Han Chinese. i'm not exaggerating, this is taken directly from policy documents from the CCP. """fortunately""", xi has decided to push the economic self-destruct button on his own country in response to decades of systemic lying and graft at every level of the country by speedrunning the planned economy policies that killed hundreds of millions in mao's cultural revolution. so, their overall influence has dropped off a lot in the last half-decade. naturally, this loss of prominence among westerners has not diminished their capability to commit genocides or bully neighbors basically at all, and comes with the added benefit that they are now doing things like telling newly graduated young people to go back to the farm and barring depositors from withdrawing their own money from banks because that'd be bad for the nation. precisely who is "worse" is a matter of perspective and values but they're at least in the same strata of horrible. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:14
|
|
|
What's the over/under the military is also getting shorted on gas as well?Coolguye posted:china does tons of loving around in the region outside of taiwan. countries as far away as pakistan get the same bullshit bully-boy treatment that russia pulled in ukraine, shutting off power and disrupting services just to prove a point. they're also actively engaged in a genocide of uyghur muslims and have been historically involved in the religious suppression/half-genocide of the followers of the dali llama in tibet. their crime, universally, is being insufficiently Han Chinese. i'm not exaggerating, this is taken directly from policy documents from the CCCP. Xi looked across the border during the pandemic and asked Kim if he could pass some of that tasty juche.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:15
|
|
|
Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:What's the over/under the military is also getting shorted on gas as well? Russian officers selling military petrol by the barrel to the local black markets is more certain than sun rising from the east.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:18
|
|
|
 And why should the EU and America unblock hundreds of billions of assets for 1 billion in rubbles' worth of stuff you stole from others? gently caress off idiots.  On the contrary my dear vatnik blogger, Strelkov should absolutely die in prison for having taken hundreds of lives and for his activities as a Puccian intelligence officer. zone fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:The nuclear arsenal is the sole and also most important reason they are a superpower and not a regional power. That detail really does make all the difference because if you can end global civilization on your own, by definition you are a global power. It's also an empty threat. "I can end the world!" well that's nice and all but you die too, soo... They serve to keep Russia from being invaded (in a serious manner; no one expects the Belgorod shenanigans to stick) and to keep the US at arm's length. But all that buys them is operating room, and their ability to project beyond their backyard was limited to Wagner. Their economy has been poo poo and their space program has been decaying at an ever-increasing rate. So yeah, if you're far away and are a dictator or dictator wanna-be you can get some decent firepower behind you, but if Russia wasn't invited in they couldn't muscle in. Their military simply isn't a credible invasion force (unless you border them already)--and that was true then as well as now. China's economic alliances are far more of a threat to american interests. And they, too, have enough nukes to delete anyone on earth and no one is second guessing their nukes' viability if they had to launch. Russia wasn't inconsequential, but it also wasn't the biggest threat to the US outside of everyone-dies-anyway nuclear war.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:You and me both know that this will not work one week before it becomes so politically weaponized its impossible position to hold. The current opposition starts to march into media a never-ending stream of refugees, famine-struck children and other victims "our government now actively hurts and refuses to help just because the local warlord/dictator for life president happens to support Russia and its not their fault". We will get another "FINLAND REFUSES AID" hit-piece headliner with starving children, and the news item completely omits the "...from those countries which openly support Russia"-part. Uh, are you pro- denying aid to people under dictators because the dictator said Putin is cool? Finns are so awesome, you’d get along great with Bush. Sanction them Kurds and drat the consequences
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:31
|
|