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Stairmaster posted:I have so many questions about W&R. Will citizens use the bus to get their kids to kindergarten? I don't think kids take the bus, just build everything in walkable clusters because road traffic sucks and you want as little as possible
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Aug 23, 2023 10:04
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1 bus/tram that goes through all service building locations, 1 bus system to go to various industry areas, if you have education problems add a dorm near your university so the students teleport/live there
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Aug 23, 2023 10:49
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okay, I've managed to build out a woodcutter, a sawmill, and a prefab residential block using a construction firm, importing only boards, bricks and steel (and I'm already hoping that the sawmill will let me eliminate importation of boards) I'm starting to see a problem though: the main bus terminal I'm using for my residential block is all "passengers" and no "workers", and yet everyone is complaining about being unemployed. The construction firm bus pulls up to the stop, and nobody gets on, even if the whole terminal is full of people. What's going on?
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Aug 23, 2023 12:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:okay, I've managed to build out a woodcutter, a sawmill, and a prefab residential block using a construction firm, importing only boards, bricks and steel (and I'm already hoping that the sawmill will let me eliminate importation of boards) Construction jobs only last as long as there's construction to do, and the jobs for it are finite. It won't keep pouring new workers into jobs that already have them, and the construction industry employs no-one if there's no construction going on. Unless you give more detail that's the best answer I can give
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Aug 23, 2023 12:30
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In the bus stop interface, there's a check box next to Workers, Passengers, and Students. I unchecked Passengers, and that seems to have solved the issue, but I guess that means the bus stop won't serve passengers anymore? What could be the fallout from that?
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Aug 23, 2023 13:04
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Buses are for workers only
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Aug 23, 2023 13:05
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gradenko_2000 posted:In the bus stop interface, there's a check box next to Workers, Passengers, and Students. I unchecked Passengers, and that seems to have solved the issue, but I guess that means the bus stop won't serve passengers anymore? What could be the fallout from that? For the moment, probably nothing. Passengers means citizens on their free time going somewhere for leisure or to shops or similar. So if that bus line isn't serving any amenities like that anyway, nothing will happen.
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Aug 23, 2023 13:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:In the bus stop interface, there's a check box next to Workers, Passengers, and Students. I unchecked Passengers, and that seems to have solved the issue, but I guess that means the bus stop won't serve passengers anymore? What could be the fallout from that? ‘Passengers’ are specifically people off work who are trying to go somewhere other than work or school, so if the only purpose that bus stop serves is as a collection point for laborers you should definitely turn off passengers, students, and tourists. for larger central bus stations it’s okay to leave them all on, but you should definitely still specialize the bus lines themselves, e.g. don’t have a bus line that stops both in the shopping district and out at the mines even if they’re both in the same direction
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Aug 23, 2023 13:59
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IIRC, the agent logic does, or did earlier in the year, something like: Spawns at its flat at the beginning of its shift. If it has a young child and detailed education is enabled in the game rules, sends them to kindergarten within walking distance. If this fails, despawn with an unemployment penalty to happiness. Looks for work not disallowed by the assignment logic at a walkable distance greater than 0. A worker-enabled bus/train/tram/ski lift reports infinite jobs available if any are available. Starts a five-hour timer, and walks to the work. If the work is work, despawn after 8 hours. If the work is a station, board the next vehicle, or despawn after one hour with no vehicle with an unemployment penalty to happiness. When the vehicle reaches the next station, rerun the work-search logic, and stay aboard if no work is available. (Note the nuance with 'walkable distance greater than 0'--workers will not transfer to another bus line at the same station. If you want workers to transfer between busses, there needs to be an up station and a down station within walking distance of each other.) If the five-hour timer expires, despawn immediately with an unemployment penalty to happiness. (This cracks me up to no end, my high school bus routing was this hosed 90-minute loop of back roads where the driver absolutely refused to let us get off at anything but our designated stop, and mine was the last around 500m away from the first, so I'm envisioning them doing the poo poo I did once my academic career was well and truly torched anyway and just peacing out through the emergency exit when we hit traffic.) Repeat until either the time limit or a worksite is reached. In any case, spawn again 8 hours after beginning of shift. Start an eight hour timer. Ignore the child. Select a need and path using the same logic, except with passenger rather than worker lines if needed, to a residential services building that offers it. Despawn satisfied when the need is fulfilled, or unsatisfied if the timer expires. (Some needs, like food or clothing, are always relevant and have severe health/happiness/loyalty maluses plus an enhanced chance of being rolled again/require a larger amount of goods next time if unfulfilled. Some, like alcohol or religion, are less punitive and also are cumulatively rolled less the less they're fulfilled; drinkers and faithful will be mad in the short term but also trend towards teetotal or nonbeliever.) Repeat the next day.
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Aug 23, 2023 15:46
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Mandoric posted:IIRC, the agent logic does, or did earlier in the year, something like: how does radio/tv fit into this, for example if you have no religious buildings except broadcasts which do some religion stuff
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Aug 23, 2023 16:00
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I'm not honestly sure, but I'd guess based on observed behavior and how I'd program it: People each have a preference for various things--most are shown when you click on them, some like food and clothing are not and we can presume that they always have 100% enthusiasm for "eating" and "not being naked" while religion and alcohol you can wean them off--and a capacity for (most of) those things. During leisure time, they draw down their stock of some of these things, and then fulfill their needs in an order weighted by preference vs. (stock:capacity). Correction, I think if they do fulfill a need during leisure hours they'll jump straight into trying for the next one until the eight-hour timer is up rather than despawning. When spawning for leisure cycle: If they own a radio and or/TV, continue processing, otherwise move on to normal leisure activities. Adjust preference for art, the Party, and education upward based on station's rating% * listener's enthusiasm% maybe * influence allocation% for each of these categories. I'd bet add say "1kg" * rating% * influence allocation% of art and education to their stocks. Adjust preference for sport and alcohol upward or downward based on station's rating% * listener's enthusiasm% maybe * influence allocation% for each of these categories. Note that these sliders start in the middle rather than at one end. Adjust preference for religion solely downward based on station's rating% * listener's enthusiasm% maybe * influence allocation% for each of these categories. When despawning for leisure cycle: Increase happiness (a preference) for each stock filled to a target number, scaled off the relative preference for each stock. Decrease happiness and loyalty for each stock not filled to a target number, scaled off the relative preference for each stock. Decrease preference for certain unfulfilled stocks that do not have a pegged preference? maybe just booze and preaching? Decrease loyalty by a smaller amount, regardless. You can't, unless it changed very recently, have religious programming, only antireligious. So no shipping them 1kg of god over the airwaves, just pulling their enthusiasm down. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 18:39 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 17:02
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okay, that's a wrap on W&R for today, after building a brick factory "realistically" and laying out a plan for a steel mill compound Steam says I added nine hours of game time in the last 12 hours lol, what a fantastic game
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Aug 23, 2023 17:19
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is there a quick and easy way to automate distribution of fuel? I really don't want to click on every building that needs it e: man gently caress the water system Stairmaster has issued a correction as of 20:16 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 19:28
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IMO gravel is so cheap that it's not worth making it yourself in the early game. It's what, less than 10 rubles per ton in 1960? This is napkin math but a basic gravel setup probably costs as much as just buying the gravel for a whole city. The best first industry is fabric and clothing. A single fabric factory can support two clothing factories and will turn a profit even if you import the crops and chemicals. Then setup farming and research a chemical industry and it's pure profit. Clothes are like ₱3500 a ton which is value dense enough to export by truck. Some raw numbers- I'm about 8 years into my current republic running the 4x slower time script. Population is just over 10k, I have a clothing chain, food + alcohol factories, a small tourist sector, farms, a refinery + oil field and a gas power plant as major infrastructure. I've imported a little over a million rubles of gravel and twelve million rubles of steel over those 8 years. On the export side I've sold 24 million rubles of clothes alone. So it's very feasible to just cover costs with valuable exports instead of jumping straight into the autarky chain, however tempting that may be conceptually.
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Aug 23, 2023 22:08
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I didn't know that the work commute is only one way and that you're not expected to bring them back.Polikarpov posted:IMO gravel is so cheap that it's not worth making it yourself in the early game. It's what, less than 10 rubles per ton in 1960? This is napkin math but a basic gravel setup probably costs as much as just buying the gravel for a whole city. DLC idea: North Korea mode. You have to be an autarky and make everything yourself.
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Aug 23, 2023 22:21
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The problem with importing gravel isn't the cost of the gravel, it's the cost - in fuel, but also in time, traffic congestion, and vehicle wear-and-tear - to transport the gravel. There's a very limited number of spaces in the customs office for importing things, it takes a long time to fill up a truck and even longer to fill up a train, and you need lots of gravel for basically everything, which means a lot of trucks on the road and a lot of fuel and time wasted on trucks constantly streaming back and forth between the border and your construction sites - and a lot of trucks importing things other than gravel wasting time waiting in line for the gravel imports to finish. A decent happy medium would be to import gravel via train to a central staging area, and then have all your trucks pull from that storage yard instead of sending them to the border.
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Aug 23, 2023 22:33
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That is the quick and easy way to automate its distribution.  To elaborate for the thread, not every building that takes fuel really "needs" it; the wiki's wrong, if something can be driven to a gas station it usually will be if necessary. Basically, there's three tiers of "needs fuel" check: a soft one with no penalty at exactly 1/6 of capacity (the last tick on the gauge), a hard one at 0 that slows speed to a limp and disables the ability to work at a worksite for relevant vehicles, and an emergency one somewhere under 0 that stops the vehicle dead in the road blocking traffic until you engage with the hyper-funky flatbed towing. The first adds the nearest available fueling station (all dedicated ones plus its home if there is fuel there) to the first slot in the destination queue, so if on road it will finish its trip and then go gas up but if on a worksite it will see that it's successfully at the worksite and then immediately proceed down the list. If the first slot in the queue was already a valid fueling station, it pulls double duty. The second, IIRC, adds it as the zeroth slot--even on the road, gas ASAP without U-turning. (The "without U-turning" is how you can even hit the third without trying very hard; if a long-haul truck sets off on the highway at 17%...) It's of extremely niche usefulness to note that land vehicles do not actually "need" fuel and there is no bottom to the tank, only various degrees of refusing to move forward directly/at full speed/at all without a refuel on the horizon. If you're willing to turbomicro to save a couple of rubles you can have interstitial fueling stations off dirt roads that you simply designate until the out-of-fuel truck is almost there and then bulldoze once it can see the next one. So, roughly, you have to distribute to: Sea and air ports, including fire stations with smokejumpers. These simply won't depart without the fuel to roundtrip what they're doing. General fueling stations for road or rail. You really want to distribute to: Hospitals, a person's chance of death on any given tick exponentially rises as their health decreases, there is a low per-person but high overall chance every tick of taking a catastrophic loss of health, and it doesn't start ticking back up until they reach the actual hospital, so 30 game-minutes or so out of the way while they're bleeding out in the back of the ambulance is actually significant. Worksites or COs which have slow and awkward vehicles. Your excavator or bulldozer will depart the quarry or construction site and spend all day trundling back to town at 10-20"kph" (not actual KPH, it is in no way capable of crossing the map a dozen-plus times in a day-night cycle). "Pull" DOs in remote areas which do not yet have a fueling station, which otherwise will only remember to fuel up when they're in town if they hit at least the first check while already bound for it. (This also makes it better to pull than push, as "pushers" won't be assigned to the building and thus can't use it.) COs/technical servives in remote areas. You only need to if your fleet is stretched to its limits: Fire stations, if they flag outbound they will still go to the fire first and if they flag returning they will make a normal refuel trip during downtime as soon as they get home. Technical services and bus/open hull/covered COs/DOs in a built-up area, police, secret police. Police in-game are operativniki, not uchastkovi; they do not prevent crimes from occurring, simply hand a case to the courts once it has, and while there is a slight malus to case progress based on time between the crime and its investigation, the structure of the game is that you will not get them until there is already a big queue of past crimes built up and they are tuned to clear that. While I'm thinking about it, happiness and the semi-hidden affinity stats, criminality and loyalty. Happiness ticks up with fulfilled needs, down with unfulfilled needs, low loyalty, and with passing the scene of an unsolved crime. Happiness too low causes emigration, and birthrate and productivity at work scale with happiness. Loyalty ticks upward upward with propaganda broadcasts, with being allowed a personal vehicle, when passing a monument, with time in education with a loyal teacher or receiving broadcasts with loyal hosts, and on a very low level with consuming alcohol. It ticks downward over time. It can be seen on an average level by default, but can only be seen individually when someone's home has been visited by the secret police recently. Productivity also scales with loyalty. Criminality is generated randomly per-person, and ticks upward with low loyalty, with unemployment, and with with passing the scene of an unsolved crime (which of course the offender did while they were committing it.) It ticks down with time spent in prison. A person's likelihood to commit a crime on any given tick scales directly with criminality. So, roughly, from a blank slate you are headed to an eventual longterm collapse state through emigration because unhappiness because crime because (disloyalty because people need reminding what the Party has done for them) or (someone who randomly rolled high got away with it, why not me too). The crime side is very easy to handle once you get it off the ground; when police and courts actually exist, and once you break a potential cycle of them taking the oldest cases and their effort being wasted as they time out, things will settle down. This might require manually clearing the queue. The loyalty side is a little trickier, but not much. Theoretically, you're supposed to have full secret police coverage--schools and broadcasters can have a minimum loyalty set for workers, but anyone without an up-to-date file is considered fully, almost impossibly, loyal. However, there are also toggles for housing to only allow move-ins of particular loyalty or education levels. Any immigration to housing can be chosen from several sources, of which Soviet experts with a decently high initial loyalty is one. And housing (or transit stations in their function as pseudo-housing for another pass of the find-a-job routine) can be set to work at particular buildings. So you can construct smaller housing that is only assigned to work at schools and broadcasters, assign all other housing within walking distance not to work there, fill it with people that are known or at least very presumably loyal, and prioritize secret police once you get them on making sure that no one's there's acquired a grumble--if they have, move people in and out until they move out but not back in. Once all these positions are filled, attended, and above 35%ish, you will hit positive rather than negative feedback loop. skooma512 posted:I didn't know that the work commute is only one way and that you're not expected to bring them back. Going all in on it would take a major, major rethink of the game, given that steel mills are framed with steel, concrete plants are built on a concrete slab, and of course you need trucks to haul steel and mechanical components to the vehicle production line. But it is basically the idea of cosmonaut/realistic mode beyond getting off the ground; compare Polikarpov's million rubles of gravel alone imported to the ₽1.4m and $700k you get total. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 22:52 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 22:38
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Mister Bates posted:The problem with importing gravel isn't the cost of the gravel, it's the cost - in fuel, but also in time, traffic congestion, and vehicle wear-and-tear - to transport the gravel. There's a very limited number of spaces in the customs office for importing things, it takes a long time to fill up a truck and even longer to fill up a train, and you need lots of gravel for basically everything, which means a lot of trucks on the road and a lot of fuel and time wasted on trucks constantly streaming back and forth between the border and your construction sites - and a lot of trucks importing things other than gravel wasting time waiting in line for the gravel imports to finish. For your first construction yard, which should be like 500m from the border, the basic solution is a few of the big 25ton dump trucks hauling gravel to an aggregate storage that has a road loader, asphalt plant and concrete plant attached. All others need to be filled by train distribution. Reducing road congestion at the customs house is the first bossfight of this game.
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Aug 23, 2023 23:07
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im getting owned just by my guys not walking to the buildings fullfilling their needs. Just walk to the store if you''re starving....
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Aug 23, 2023 23:16
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Stairmaster posted:im getting owned just by my guys not walking to the buildings fullfilling their needs. Just walk to the store if you''re starving.... when selecting a building, you can hover over the icon of the little walking guy to see an overlay of every single building that is within walking range and what route they're taking, to help optimize this
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Aug 23, 2023 23:33
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I do like the mechanic that tourist attractions can substitute for certain needs, like a random citizen is sad about not being able to go to church but instead they can go ride on the big ferris wheel or go to a museum and everything is ok. IIRC attractions can substitute for religion, culture and sport needs.
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Aug 24, 2023 00:01
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Mister Bates posted:when selecting a building, you can hover over the icon of the little walking guy to see an overlay of every single building that is within walking range and what route they're taking, to help optimize this I did. they're 81m away from the shop 
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Aug 24, 2023 01:42
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- does the store have enough supplies, or was there recently a supply shortage? Those messages linger a while - does the store have a labor shortage? if there are more customers than the store can handle, some people will not be able to get their supplies
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Aug 24, 2023 07:44
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- is the simulation intelligent enough that if I had an construction office that only had dumpers assigned to it, and a second CO that only had buses assigned to it, that it would still complete construction projects properly, as long as both COs were assigned to the same project? - Mandoric's description of how the simulation picks jobs for people sounds like people don't really occupy permanent positions: they wake up, select a job at the start of their day based on where they can get to, do a shift, and then teleport home, and then do it again the next. In this sense, the number of jobs needed is actually in flux all the time, right? I ask because my original question was going to be "is there a report/statistical view that tells me how many working-age people I need, to fill all the jobs I have", but then I guess that wouldn't really work, since only you, the player, have an idea of which factories need to be fully manned at any one time, and so on. - how do I know how many fields are enough to produce enough food for everyone? - how do I know how many fields are enough to produce crops for non-food purposes, such as for clothes production and chemicals and so on? - how do I know how many farms are enough for those fields? my impression is that there's very little room for in-place upgrades. - that is, if I already built a mud road, and I want to replace it with a gravel road, I have to delete the mud road, and build a new gravel road in its place, which means anything that was using the road, can't get to it, until the new road is built, or unless I build some kind of bypass, right? - is the simulation intelligent enough that if a line loses a path temporarily due to a blown-up road, that it will re-learn the new road once the road is built? - similarly, if I was using an Open Storage plot to store steel and bricks and whatever, and it gets filled-up and I build a bigger Open Storage (or warehouse, etc.), I have to re-do all the orders for all the trucks that were using the old Storage, right? - since these maps are so large, is it possible to build towns/settlements on entirely different areas of the map, that do not have any relationship to each other? I suppose the idea being that if I wanted to try again, but didn't want to start a whole new save, since there's otherwise so much room to play with. - is there any way to make the game go faster than the maximum speed already in the game?
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Aug 24, 2023 10:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:- is the simulation intelligent enough that if I had an construction office that only had dumpers assigned to it, and a second CO that only had buses assigned to it, that it would still complete construction projects properly, as long as both COs were assigned to the same project? yes. you can group COs by task or construction phase, generally. a free CO dedicated to roads will have two bulldozers and two dumpers. another CO would be equipped to drop off construction materials. another would have cranes and buses. btw cranes have a "rating" which is, i think, the number of workers that can "use" it, boosting construction speed. gradenko_2000 posted:- how do I know how many fields are enough to produce enough food for everyone? precise supply chain management is complicated and there are quite a few youtube videos about it. for farms, no fewer than six large fields. see what that gets you. yields are viable due to the vehicles you have working them. a farm complex is fields, farm, roads, storage, distribution, maybe a road cargo station. they do not need workers. i think a medium farm can handle up to twelve large fields. gradenko_2000 posted:my impression is that there's very little room for in-place upgrades. you don't have to delete the roads. you can build the upgraded road on top of them, but they will be inaccessible until the section is finished. you've got to build bypasses. the people are good with it. no dim-witted hungover british everyman is going to lie down in your way. gradenko_2000 posted:- similarly, if I was using an Open Storage plot to store steel and bricks and whatever, and it gets filled-up and I build a bigger Open Storage (or warehouse, etc.), I have to re-do all the orders for all the trucks that were using the old Storage, right? tell the CO/DO to use the new place. what do you mean by all the orders for all the trucks? gradenko_2000 posted:- since these maps are so large, is it possible to build towns/settlements on entirely different areas of the map, that do not have any relationship to each other? I suppose the idea being that if I wanted to try again, but didn't want to start a whole new save, since there's otherwise so much room to play with. if you build out a ways from where you started, the game will give the place a new name. there is an interface for designating different cities.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:13
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thank you for the response!Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:tell the CO/DO to use the new place. what do you mean by all the orders for all the trucks? I mean I have a truck assigned to deliver bricks from the brick factory to the storage, and another truck to deliver boards from the sawmill to the storage. If I moved to another, bigger storage unit, I'd have to re-do the orders for those trucks to instead deliver to the new storage, whether or not I deleted the old, smaller storage. Right?
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Aug 24, 2023 14:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:thank you for the response! yeah, but a better way to do it is to have a distribution office assigned to deliver bricks from the brick factory to the storage and let it take care of ordering the individual trucks, so you just have to issue one order instead of twenty
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Aug 24, 2023 14:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:thank you for the response! bless your heart! you are a man of infinite patience, but in most cases you do not have to tell individual trucks to do anything. as above, it is highly recommended to build a distribution office, assign your vehicles to that, and tell the DO what to take from where. also, since your doing factory stuff, look into road cargo stations.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:38
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okay, distribution offices are something I definitely need to play with more
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Aug 24, 2023 14:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:- is the simulation intelligent enough that if I had an construction office that only had dumpers assigned to it, and a second CO that only had buses assigned to it, that it would still complete construction projects properly, as long as both COs were assigned to the same project? In order: - No(t really). Once assigned, a CO will send everything it's assigned to handle that the current phase demands as soon as it becomes available; labor is always demanded and will always be sent, even if the materials are not on site and the workers will do nothing, hence the recommendation to split staffing off and manually assign later/unassign when the next phase starts. - The individual pop does not have a fixed job, but, you can take more control that is directly available in that they do have a fixed residence and that residence can be assigned to only work particular buildings or travel from particular transit stations. This additionally has the nuance that while they will only go to the assigned buildings, they will eliminate full ones from the list. You can also micro degree-holders in, who will try to fill technical jobs before manual labor. It's very common to have a particular apartment building, say, set to go 70% to the heating plant and 30% to your central bus stop; of the first 10 people leaving a shift, 7 will go to the plant (its max capacity) and 3 will go to the bus stop, then of the remaining 90 all 90 will see the plant is full and go to the bus stop. I don't believe there is a view for unfilled jobs, but unfilled jobs are not considered a problem by the simulation; a 500-worker steel mill simply turns out 50% of peak capacity with 250 workers, 10% with 50, and so on. If you want to try to micro it, you can simply place 500† pop worth of new housing in the residential areas that are either explicitly set to work there or that drain onto bus lines leading there, but it's best not to pursue perfect efficiency as then small hiccups can spiral into an unemployment problem--this is a game of learning to love slack. † See discussion of time scaling later. - Per https://steamcommunity.com/app/784150/discussions/5/3410929406913916326/#c3410929607715672322, 120kg/game year of food per game year per pop and 30kg of meat. (Historical musing, the two combine nicely close to the Japanese 石 of 180l, which was itself an estimate of how much rice stipend per year was required to supplement gardens.) They also require 4kg of clothing and alcohol. - Per the more recent ratio calculator at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oZT_cWQTIKWqJXQIemeFQIy2H57uZqSrbI3LS0OOsdU/edit#gid=925225702, you can expect around 60 tons/year/Ha, or 25 for a 0.4Ha small farm, 100 for a 1.6Ha medium, and 300 for a 4.8Ha large. - A tractor or harvester can handle about 16Ha per growing season, of which there is one per year; small/medium/large farms support 6, 12, or 30 vehicles, so since you need both vehicles can handle 48/96/240 Ha. The logic kind of works in a different order than how the questions were phrased, so to phrase it more simply: * Food is produced at a 5:11 ratio to crop input, so α = pop * 0.264. * Meat is produced at a 2:5 ratio from livestock, which in turn are produced at a 1:2 ratio from crops--all together, a 1:5 ratio of meat to crops. So β = pop * 0.15. * Clothing is produced at a 1:2 ratio from fabric, which is a 1:4 ratio from crops. So γ = 0.032. * Alcohol is produced at a 1:5 ratio directly from crops. So δ = 0.02. * Total needs consumption x is α + β + γ + δ, or pop * 0.466 if you're not importing any of these. * y tons crops a year for other industry, where y is the max consumption per workday shown * 365† * staffing% * (roughly) average of happiness% and loyalty%. * x + y / 60 = z, Ha of fields planted. * z / 8 = n, number of farm vehicle slots needed. † Again, see discussion of time scaling later. Land paths, and only land paths, can be upgraded additively in place: mud to anything higher, gravel to panel or to anything on the asphalt chain, asphalt to lit, trolley, or tram, lit to trolley or tram. Wood ties to concrete ties or electrified, concrete ties to electrified. Mud footpath to any other footpath, gravel footpath to any asphalt footpath, asphalt footpath to lit. In fact, when building any of the higher paths ex nihilo, each one is a construction phase. - This can be done by drawing the higher form over the existing lower. It will mostly be out of service during the construction, no switching it to one lane for the duration, but some vehicles already in transit when the order was given will plow straight through. Mud roads are free, instant, and if you have the space are often your bypass of choice. - Yes, a route is a series of "pathfind to x" orders called when leaving the previous stop and the display is just the currently optimum pathfind, hence the behavior of existing trips continuing through construction zones. - Yes, with the caveat that if you use loading/unloading stations (which speed up the load/unload as well) you can attach both the new and old to it and swap over cleanly--sometimes even the new and old to each other as well and not have to truck between them. - Almost-yes. If you started on coal/steel in the north and oil is in the south, it would take game years to get a full rail connection up, but you can quite easily cash-build an export operation without them connected. And in fact on many maps there are preexisting old towns, populated or abandoned. However, you must be careful with empty "failed"/unserved development, as people may try to move into it if they are dissatisfied with their current digs, and you will be stuck with your current cash levels. - Not really. Each of the different time cycles in the game works off its own scaling; for example a day-night cycle is 60 seconds but also an 8-hour workday is nominally 60 seconds. (There are mods that try to tweak this, but ironically they're built around "average or experienced player should have done everything they will by calendar 1990" and thus go by doubling or quadrupling the day-night cycle but not tripling it.) Except a "workday" for a person is not 60 seconds, it is however long their commute takes plus 60 seconds and their output, time off after, and demands during their time off are then scaled based off this number. Neither land vehicles, aircraft, nor boats actually cover their listed speed, but a 15-knot boat can keep pace with a 50kph tram. What this does mean is that the "numbers the game shows you" are right without further math; a plant that supports 100 workers wants housing for 100 of them to live and will then work round-the-clock, you don't have to build for second and third shift. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 14:51 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 14:40
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The gravel processing plant says: - 120 tons of quarried stone consumed, at maximum production - 82 tons of gravel produced per workday, at maximum production The customs house says: - 4.27 rubles per 1 ton of quarried stone - 8.26 rubles per 1 ton of gravel This means that: I can import 120 tons of quarried stone, and it will cost 512.40 rubles that can be processed into 82 tons of gravel, and I can export it for 677.32 rubles thereby yielding 164.92 rubles of profit Caveats: - if the processing plant is less than 100% manned, it does NOT change the "conversion ratio" of stone to gravel, it just takes longer - when playing at higher levels of realism, this sort of profit margin is not tenable, because of a number of factors, but especially something like the maintenance cost of the vehicles involved in moving all this product did I get all of that right? to be clear, I am not seriously suggesting that processing stone to gravel is a great foundation on which to run an economy, I am just trying to get a handle on the basic assumptions around "creating value" by processing raw materials up the chain another example would be: the ore processing plant converts 210 tons of coal ore, into 120 tons of coal coal ore costs 8.81 rubles per ton, while coal costs 16.99 rubles per ton if I imported 210 tons of coal ore (costing 1,850.10 rubles) and processed it into 120 tons of coal, I'd get 2,038.80 rubles if I exported all of it, yielding 188.70 rubles in profit if I mined 210 tons of coal ore out of the ground, and exported that directly... I would get still 1,850.10 rubles, but the processed coal would give me more money per ton of material. or another way to look at it would be: the coal ore processing plant costs 133,156 rubles to build, if funded from rubles if I get 188.70 rubles in "added value" from converting 210 tons of coal ore, into 120 tons of coal, then I would "break even" on the cost of the plant after 705 cycles (148,050 tons of coal ore, processed into 84,600 tons of coal, and then all the coal gets exported). Again, assuming no other maintenance costs or other expenses. is that right?
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Aug 24, 2023 17:48
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double nine posted:
how many customers can a single worker at a store handle?
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Aug 24, 2023 17:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:The gravel processing plant says: More or less. If you want to really get into the weeds you could also try to work out the additional cost from the electricity needed to power the industry, the coal used to heat it, the water it uses, etc. but it doesn't matter all that much, unless you are really serious about optimization or building at a truly giant scale. Speaking of electricity, power can be exported as well as imported, and while I have not done the math to check, it may actually be more profitable for you to burn the coal and sell the power to your neighbors than export the coal itself - although, of course, that requires a lot more infrastructure to do, and a much higher initial buy-in. In general, any product you produce is going to be worth more than all of the raw inputs - it might not be worth very much more, depending on what exactly it is, but applying labor and machines to a raw material to turn it into another product always results in it being more valuable than the raw inputs were on their own. It is, as a result, generally beneficial to process your raw materials as much as is reasonably possible before exporting them, because the labor you expend in the process adds value at every step. There are some goods that can be fairly profitable exported completely raw - most notably crude oil, which also requires no labor aside from initial setup and a very small amount for maintenance/fire prevention - but they are the exception. Mister Bates has issued a correction as of 18:49 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 18:44
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Yes! (ish. Electricity, if enabled, and cost of labor are the other factors.) Note that prices charged will scale up the more of something you import, and prices offered will scale down the more you export. There is a very, very feasible initial plan in rushing an automotive plant and taking after actual Yugoslavia; Soviet border posts pay top dollar for NATO vehicle designs, so you can pull a Yugo or Polski Fiat. Stairmaster posted:how many customers can a single worker at a store handle? At once is displayed in the store's info pane. Total capacity during a shift is probably four or eight times that if everything lines up perfectly, but mostly just if you're getting lines in front on the regular and workers/goods are getting in it's time to expand--it's especially hard to make a rule because customers will sometimes buy in advance/do a big restock.
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Aug 24, 2023 18:46
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Holy poo poo, never mind what I've said about split COs, they finally actually fixed them sending workers to do nothing. Still a good idea to specialize because now the buses just sit idle while those slots could be filled with the truck that delivers what that phase needs, but that's a lot of micro that no longer needs to be done. E: Aaaaand it's still fiddly around phase borders, too. Or around jumping the gun and flooding the site the second the first load gets delivered. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 19:15 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 19:01
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even if technically profitable, i wouldnt say gravel is worth exporting. the benefit of a gravel industry is having your own gravel. making more than you need is labor you could use for other things.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:16
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I'd sit on surplus gravel unless I also had surplus coal, and then maybe I'd think about turning into cement and prefabs for export. Clothes are the king of early game exports due to their value/ton. They're easy to export by truck, most of the input cost is in crops which are easy to set up and you can supply some of the output to your citizens to reduce a major cost of labor reproduction. Polikarpov has issued a correction as of 19:27 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 19:24
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okay, it took a while, but I finally completed my steel mill and surrounding compound. Now I'm trying to set-up a rail connection so I can haul coal to my steel mill because it takes way too long to do it with trucks
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Aug 25, 2023 12:08
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Make the worlds longest conveyor. Also the start of your tourism industry.
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Aug 25, 2023 12:29
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yeah, trains or boats are a necessity to properly build up a republic. trucks just don't cut itOrange Devil posted:Make the worlds longest conveyor. tourists are trash generators like nothing else, gently caress that noise
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Aug 25, 2023 12:42
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