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Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


The only metrics I'm interested in are "# of deadlines met" and "# of acceptance criteria met"

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Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Measure teams, not individuals. Compare the metrics only against the historical performance of the same team. If the metrics appear to reveal a problem, confirm the existence of the problem before so much as mentioning the metric to anyone on the team.

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




We've been given a tool like that which connects to JIRA and GitHub so what we're doing as managers is working out how we can show we're using this 'tool' whilst at the same time, not using the tool.

SurgicalOntologist
Jun 17, 2004

Has anyone come across any useful resources, blog posts or whatever, that take the ideas of Team Topologies but apply it to small organizations? I'm rereading it and it's really quite illuminating, we have lots of antipatterns they talk about it, but we only have 15 people and maybe budget for 1 more soon if we're lucky, so we don't really have a lot of room to maneuver in terms of team organization. We're too many to "just wing it" as a single team but too few to be able to draw enough lines to reduce cognitive load as much as I'd like to.

Maybe later I'll go deeper into the specifics of how we're organized now and get feedback, just wondering if someone's already written on this.

Best idea I have so far is just acknowledge it and plan for growth. I.e. treat one team as if they really are two teams. At least making explicit in their heads that there are two separable value streams they're responsible for, such that whenever growth allows it, splitting will seem natural and somewhat planned ahead for.

Edit: in before "sounds like the company itself has too much cognitive load / is it trying to do too much", yes yes of course, let's take that as a given and assume I can't change that.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

SurgicalOntologist posted:

Has anyone come across any useful resources, blog posts or whatever, that take the ideas of Team Topologies but apply it to small organizations? I'm rereading it and it's really quite illuminating, we have lots of antipatterns they talk about it, but we only have 15 people and maybe budget for 1 more soon if we're lucky, so we don't really have a lot of room to maneuver in terms of team organization. We're too many to "just wing it" as a single team but too few to be able to draw enough lines to reduce cognitive load as much as I'd like to.

Maybe later I'll go deeper into the specifics of how we're organized now and get feedback, just wondering if someone's already written on this.

Best idea I have so far is just acknowledge it and plan for growth. I.e. treat one team as if they really are two teams. At least making explicit in their heads that there are two separable value streams they're responsible for, such that whenever growth allows it, splitting will seem natural and somewhat planned ahead for.

Edit: in before "sounds like the company itself has too much cognitive load / is it trying to do too much", yes yes of course, let's take that as a given and assume I can't change that.
A management book I'm reading now has the line "If you're managing 4 people or less that, you aren't managing a team you're managing 4 individuals". I forget the exact number, may have been 6, but it rings true for me, at small numbers you can't really balance out people to the same degree. So, considering the people you actually have and how to maximize them may be a helpful way forward, any advice may end up being idiosyncratic.

Aramoro posted:

We've been given a tool like that which connects to JIRA and GitHub so what we're doing as managers is working out how we can show we're using this 'tool' whilst at the same time, not using the tool.
I looked for something like this for a while, and Exelate got close to working, but then I just gave up and the person who was complaining about cross linking issues gave up, and things have been going really well ever since.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Harriet Carker posted:

I was the number one ranked for LoC in the codebase at my last job because the previous contractors didn’t use semicolons in JS and I turned on a Prettier rule to add them and committed the result.

I remember one of our principal engineers did something similar. Some minor but system wide formatting changes. Looked like he wrote the entire platform himself.

Because at the time we were a pretty healthy organization, it was just something to laugh at and make 10x engineer jokes about.

Fellatio del Toro
Mar 21, 2009

for a long time after someone higher up learned you could count lines of code they kept wondering why all the other teams were performing so poorly compared to us

we just used a lot of generated REST API code

brand engager
Mar 23, 2011

So that book order got marked delivered earlier this week, but they never even came up to the house. Then an order from a different company got marked delivered today, but I never got it. Both times they had used USPS. Where it's about to get really annoying is that the company I work for bought a newer device for me to test on, and it's estimated to show up at my house tomorrow. And the carrier is USPS again :rip:

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Our department finally managed to coax loving IT into a discussion about how to progress about us rewriting our old Foxpro apps. I mean, some delay was acceptable, with what our whole manufacturing plant having been flooded during 2021's European floods, but our initial talks were two years ago and we wanted facts (while I continued developing).

Back then we all loosely decided on a web frontend and a Node.JS backend was the way to go. So today, they suddenly backpedalled, because they currently don't have anyone on staff that does Node.JS (the gently caress does that mean, anyway, since there's people doing web development), that could replace me on quitting or death.

Even worse, since this is an IBM i shop, they asked me whether I'd be willing to start the backend over in RPGLE. :catstare:

(The dev guys actually writing RPG want to get the gently caress away from it, but the IT head is a big fan of it.)

React was also a point of contention, because the other two web devs over in IT do Angular currently. React was agreed to by said guys two years ago.

FML.

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Combat Pretzel posted:

Even worse, since this is an IBM i shop, they asked me whether I'd be willing to start the backend over in RPGLE. :catstare:

So they want to go from FoxPro to something from . . . 1959.

Have they considered that new-fangled Charles Babbage contraption?

Edit: gently caress I kind of want to frame that post for how amazing it is. I have colleagues who think anything invented after mid-2001 is crap, and I thought that was ridiculous enough.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Yea, this whole situation is ridiculous. It seems that IT head just wants something that integrates with their IBM i stuff with the least effort, which would be the current state of affairs, i.e. RPGLE.

Luckily they've hired some new project lead with a recent master in CS that tries to keep him a bit in check with some modicum of success (apparently your opinion is worth gently caress all to the IT head, if you don't have a higher degree, to the detriment to most of the current programmers, of which most are lateral hires). So far it seems that he's not that familiar with web dev stuff yet, because he didn't really know what Node.JS was supposed to be, because I kept mentioning it in the same breath with web services, and he has currently the impression that it's a platform to run web services on. At least he's willing to look into it and get some more information.

Another thing that irritated me, that I forgot to mention, was the Typescript thing, when the topic of languages came up, since I use it on the backend. IT head: "We don't do that here, tho. We write our web related stuff in Javascript, none of our guys know Typescript." Tried to explain to them the point of it, but I didn't get the impression that I got anywhere. Hope the new guy does his magic as soon he informs himself some more.

Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.
Well, nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM!

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Sagacity posted:

Well, nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM!
To be honest, I'm surprised that no one has ever tried to recreate the whole IBM i runtime environment as some open source stuff running on a cluster of commodity hardware. Given how pervasive this poo poo is in old shops, I wonder who IBM has by the balls that nothing the like ever happened.

--edit: Also, they want me to continue developing inside a Citrix desktop environment instead of locally on my laptop. Is this a new thing? On one hand, it's not unreasonable. On the other hand, there's too much cloud in my life and I hate it.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Aug 28, 2023

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


IBM doesn't need anyone by the balls. Momentum is powerful. Few businesses can afford to ice skate along for long enough to migrate to newer standards, and nobody likes having a dozen different setups according to whatever a given employee liked best when they took on a project.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
You should quit OP

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Yeah I wish. This is also a lateral job change. I'd like to finish this drat project first to have something to refer to.

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!
"What did you do at your current job?"

"I migrated a FoxPro-based back-end to RPGLE: An IBM-proprietary language invented the same year as COBOL."

"Why do you want to leave your current job?"

"Did I loving stutter?"

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
^^^ I hear COBOL jobs are extreme well paid nowadays.

Combat Pretzel posted:

...TypeScript... IT head: "We don't do that here, tho. We write our web related stuff in Javascript, none of our guys know Typescript."

Google posted:

Angular is a TypeScript-based, free and open-source single-page web application framework
The gently caress now? :psypop:

--edit: AngularJS is EOL since January 2022, so if they're still hugging that one, they'll eventually have to move on.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Aug 28, 2023

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Combat Pretzel posted:

^^^ I hear COBOL jobs are extreme well paid nowadays.
And that's funnier because it isn't even COBOL!

Lyesh
Apr 9, 2003

Combat Pretzel posted:

To be honest, I'm surprised that no one has ever tried to recreate the whole IBM i runtime environment as some open source stuff running on a cluster of commodity hardware. Given how pervasive this poo poo is in old shops, I wonder who IBM has by the balls that nothing the like ever happened.
That's how IBM sells a lot of their mainframes now. z/OS virtualized on a (proprietary) linux server.

Nobody else does it for the same reasons nobody sells a slot-in competitor to Windows. It would be an insane amount of reverse engineering to do it with a prayer of making it through legal and you'd be facing litigation from one of the most litigious computer companies ever, who has revenue in the tens of billions. With IBM you'd have the additional hurdle of converting customers who have next to zero fault-tolerance (otherwise they'd have gone with something cheaper thirty years ago).

Lyesh fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Aug 28, 2023

Lyesh
Apr 9, 2003

Combat Pretzel posted:

^^^ I hear COBOL jobs are extreme well paid nowadays.



The gently caress now? :psypop:

--edit: AngularJS is EOL since January 2022, so if they're still hugging that one, they'll eventually have to move on.

considering how many people are still on CentOS 6, that's got at least another decade in it.

Rubellavator
Aug 16, 2007

some people just won't stop calling it angularjs, especially management.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


Combat Pretzel posted:

AngularJS is EOL since January 2022, so if they're still hugging that one, they'll eventually have to move on.

lol

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!
Do any of you have a significant other that will troll your friends or others by spewing cocktails of random technology names that they literally know nothing about just for the lulz? My wife likes to blurt poo poo about Ruby to my electrical engineering friends and posted about how I wrote a script for her using:

Four copies of The Elephant Book (she knows O'Reilly puts animals on books) left by a dumpster. Apparently that book is about Hadoop.
API Calls.
Rust.
Ruby on Rails (the bestest programming language that I used once in my life, but it makes people angry when she insists).
and the cloud. Who the gently caress wants hardware they can actually touch?

Last time I got trolled like that was a meet and greet at PyCon by somebody's fiance. Coincidentally, this fiance and my wife were both from Tennessee. Is this something Mountain People do?

mark immune
Dec 14, 2019

put the teacher in the cope cage imo
no

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Do any of you have a significant other


:)

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

Combat Pretzel posted:

^^^ I hear COBOL jobs are extreme well paid nowadays.



The gently caress now? :psypop:

--edit: AngularJS is EOL since January 2022, so if they're still hugging that one, they'll eventually have to move on.

the angular/angularjs thing is almost as good as .net framework/.net core/.net

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Do any of you have a significant other that will troll your friends or others by spewing cocktails of random technology names that they literally know nothing about just for the lulz? My wife likes to blurt poo poo about Ruby to my electrical engineering friends and posted about how I wrote a script for her using:

Four copies of The Elephant Book (she knows O'Reilly puts animals on books) left by a dumpster. Apparently that book is about Hadoop.
API Calls.
Rust.
Ruby on Rails (the bestest programming language that I used once in my life, but it makes people angry when she insists).
and the cloud. Who the gently caress wants hardware they can actually touch?

Last time I got trolled like that was a meet and greet at PyCon by somebody's fiance. Coincidentally, this fiance and my wife were both from Tennessee. Is this something Mountain People do?

Your wife rules just FYI

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Combat Pretzel posted:

--edit: AngularJS is EOL since January 2022, so if they're still hugging that one, they'll eventually have to move on.

Impressed it lasted that long to be honest. I guess the people saying that there was no urgency to the total rewrite that was the Angular 2 app migration were right.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Do any of you have a significant other that will troll your friends or others by spewing cocktails of random technology names that they literally know nothing about just for the lulz? My wife likes to blurt poo poo about Ruby to my electrical engineering friends and posted about how I wrote a script for her using:

Four copies of The Elephant Book (she knows O'Reilly puts animals on books) left by a dumpster. Apparently that book is about Hadoop.
API Calls.
Rust.
Ruby on Rails (the bestest programming language that I used once in my life, but it makes people angry when she insists).
and the cloud. Who the gently caress wants hardware they can actually touch?

Last time I got trolled like that was a meet and greet at PyCon by somebody's fiance. Coincidentally, this fiance and my wife were both from Tennessee. Is this something Mountain People do?
it's good when people have a healthy outlet for the pathological lying urge

most people use internet shitposting or locker rooms for that

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Do any of you have a significant other that will troll your friends or others by spewing cocktails of random technology names that they literally know nothing about just for the lulz? My wife likes to blurt poo poo about Ruby to my electrical engineering friends and posted about how I wrote a script for her using:

Four copies of The Elephant Book (she knows O'Reilly puts animals on books) left by a dumpster. Apparently that book is about Hadoop.
API Calls.
Rust.
Ruby on Rails (the bestest programming language that I used once in my life, but it makes people angry when she insists).
and the cloud. Who the gently caress wants hardware they can actually touch?

Last time I got trolled like that was a meet and greet at PyCon by somebody's fiance. Coincidentally, this fiance and my wife were both from Tennessee. Is this something Mountain People do?

yes

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS
Resume question: I've spent the past few years working as a contractor for various large companies. Should I put that on my resume as "Worked at: Staffing Agency with Job Duties: FAANG contractor (+ actual job duties)" or "Worked at FAANG (through Staffing Agency)"? I've mostly done the first, but a recruiter I talked to yesterday suggested the second.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

darthbob88 posted:

Resume question: I've spent the past few years working as a contractor for various large companies. Should I put that on my resume as "Worked at: Staffing Agency with Job Duties: FAANG contractor (+ actual job duties)" or "Worked at FAANG (through Staffing Agency)"? I've mostly done the first, but a recruiter I talked to yesterday suggested the second.

I would tend to put the second, as long as it's very clear that you were a contractor and not an employee.

epswing
Nov 4, 2003

Soiled Meat
Yeah, I’ve seen “Worked at BigCorp (Contract position)” a bunch, sounds fine.

epswing fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Sep 8, 2023

Cat Machine
Jun 18, 2008

If you were there in something akin to a 9-5 working position then yeah absolutely use the latter option, because you were basically an employee in all but contract specifics. If you did any light-touch consulting (i.e. a part-time report or prototype or whatever) then maybe just keep that to the job description at your parent company or you run the risk of overstuffing your CV.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Does anyone know how hr/ background check would work? Companies will generally call, usually after an offer, to confirm employment, but if I was at x as a consultant of y, it would need to be clear that hr should confirm with y.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

StumblyWumbly posted:

Does anyone know how hr/ background check would work? Companies will generally call, usually after an offer, to confirm employment, but if I was at x as a consultant of y, it would need to be clear that hr should confirm with y.

When doing a job as one of those "all-but-in-name" contracting jobs, the hr at x will track you as well (just marked as contractor), so x can confirm that you worked there as a contractor.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Okay I read Designing Data-Intensive Applications, what next?

(I also read Soul of a New Machine after recommendations from this thread, really enjoyed it)

Slimchandi
May 13, 2005
That finger on your temple is the barrel of my raygun

prom candy posted:

Okay I read Designing Data-Intensive Applications, what next?

(I also read Soul of a New Machine after recommendations from this thread, really enjoyed it)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kill-Fire-Manage-Computer-Systems/dp/1718501188

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prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Got it in my queue already! I'll start it up

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