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Vic posted:I mean that's one way of looking at lack of content. I don't think shoving a bunch of FOMO disposable weekly event "content" into the game in order to desperately cling to player mindshare is a good strategy for tackling an anemic endgame that is in need of actual new systems and durable content additions, no. Maybe you think it would be great to have to log in and do daily quests or something?
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Aug 25, 2023 21:27
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Those are good changes to monster cc.
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Aug 25, 2023 21:28
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harrygomm posted:patch notes I really hope so since you can learn where crit shows up to make ignoring 98% of items easier.
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Aug 25, 2023 21:28
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The fire elite debuff is way overdue. gently caress those guys
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Aug 25, 2023 21:31
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I don't see anything about the lock up you get when you raiment a big group together which is a persistent lovely bug, end up having to blow an evade alot of the time before spells will go off
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Aug 25, 2023 21:36
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Scoss posted:I don't think shoving a bunch of FOMO disposable weekly event "content" into the game in order to desperately cling to player mindshare is a good strategy for tackling an anemic endgame that is in need of actual new systems and durable content additions, no. Maybe you think it would be great to have to log in and do daily quests or something? Daily quests and such are just another way of saying procgen. It's the scarcity that makes a thing FOMO exploitation. I agree I would rather see a more singleplayer game solution, but we're playing D4, the always online, timed event, persistent overworld game.
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Aug 25, 2023 21:39
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do people that play this game just want to never be challenged in any way? "fire elites had one too many missiles" and "i got frozen" are almost insane criticisms to me. the game literally has 100 difficulty levels at the end, if you cant avoid a big circle that blows up after 3 seconds maybe just like, lower the difficulty a bit
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Aug 25, 2023 22:00
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The only dangerous things being post death farts and corpse bows is a dumb way to have difficulty, actually
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Aug 25, 2023 22:01
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flashman posted:The only dangerous things being post death farts and corpse bows is a dumb way to have difficulty, actually It's this. It's an annoyance more than anything
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Aug 25, 2023 22:06
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ok. so make the game harder instead of easier? im not sure what you're getting at.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:14
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Verviticus posted:do people that play this game just want to never be challenged in any way? "fire elites had one too many missiles" and "i got frozen" are almost insane criticisms to me. the game literally has 100 difficulty levels at the end, if you cant avoid a big circle that blows up after 3 seconds maybe just like, lower the difficulty a bit I have never found Diablo games challenging in gameplay. It's not bullet hell, it's not MOBA, it's not WOW or a twin stick shooter. The challenge is in spending your time, making gear decisions, and then executing the build properly. You're getting CC'd either because you weren't paying attention, or because of RNG. It's just slowing the game down, and by sweet baby jesus the last thing D4 needs is more speedbumps.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:15
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i think paying attention is a worthwhile thing to require when you are doing maximal difficulty game contentVic posted:The challenge is in spending your time, making gear decisions, and then executing the build properly. actually i think im beginning to understand you more completely now that i re-read this. lol
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Aug 25, 2023 22:16
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Paying attention to things you can't reasonably react to is pointless. Should we be developing precognitive gamer skills?Verviticus posted:do people that play this game just want to never be challenged in any way? "fire elites had one too many missiles" and "i got frozen" are almost insane criticisms to me. the game literally has 100 difficulty levels at the end, if you cant avoid a big circle that blows up after 3 seconds maybe just like, lower the difficulty a bit You're mistaking challenge for "anything that makes the game harder" when it should be "reasonable escalating difficulty that player can learn and adapt to." It'd technically be challenging if every monster in the game ripped your heart out 25% of the time but it'd also make the game pretty frustrating and drive everybody to exclusively play kiting builds. Frustration is a poor substitute for actual challenging content. You could give every enemy in Soulsbornes or Monster Hunter games wide hitboxes for their attacks and it'd be more challenging, but you'd also get very irritated that you can't trust your eyes or reaction timings. I want to be challenged in that I use my abilities with proper timing and evade enemy attacks with twitch reflexes, observational awareness and familiarity/knowledge of the enemy type or else I will be punished. If the enemy actions can't be avoided by anything I do in reasonable response time it's not challenging so much as tedious. Or it's a "you slotted Unstoppable, right?" check, which itself diminishes build variety whether by aspects or skills. There's some satisfaction in building tanky enough to withstand a bad turn, at least. I'm not upset spiders put webs on the ground that I need to evade and if I touch them I get rooted. I'm upset that they blend into the ground, their hitbox doesn't read well to me and I can stumble into four of them back to back. Same with some enemy graphics(lightning vampire stun circles) and horror circles, both of which are dark red/maroon in a game defined by morbid color sets. I don't mind that I can be frozen. I feel good when I evade the little ice globe circles, or I disengage from an enemy or ice chill wall building up visible frost on my character while my speaker crackles with snow sound effects. If I engage an ice enchanted boss and his minions have it and I get randomly frozen for 2-4 seconds every 5 seconds being swarmed by attacks that might as well be hitscan then I don't feel challenged, just annoyed. Shotgun spiders, especially for melee builds, aren't really challenging in that there's something complex you need to do. They just ramp your frozen from 0 to 100 most of the time and their projectiles spawn inside of you at melee. People want challenge but devs should make continual adjustments to make things feel better. The ideal is a player thinks "I made a mistake" instead of "that's bullshit."
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Aug 25, 2023 22:18
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Verviticus posted:i think paying attention is a worthwhile thing to require when you are doing maximal difficulty game content It's not satisfying. It's maintaining status quo instead of like exploiting a weakness to land a critical hit. It's like being good at your job by never getting a day off. It's poo poo.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:19
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Verviticus posted:actually i think im beginning to understand you more completely now that i re-read this. lol What do you mean? e: post not edit
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Aug 25, 2023 22:21
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Doomykins posted:People want challenge but devs should make continual adjustments to make things feel better. The ideal is a player thinks "I made a mistake" instead of "that's bullshit." yeah you're correct. idk if i ever thought the damage from a fire explosion was bullshit and certainly not the loving post-death tri-missile that does insignificant damage. i question the thinking of people that have felt that way
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Aug 25, 2023 22:21
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This doesn't really end getting CC'd, it just deals with some of the more obnoxious CC. Honestly I am fairly OK with everything except getting AWP'd by corpse bows and that almost unavoidable ghost ray attack. The game being easier and easier as you level (a common problem with RPGs) is an issue beyond even this. I was doing WT2 world bosses on a new rogue yesterday and it felt refreshing not to see the world boss melt in four seconds and actually get a fight out of it, with lots of casualties. This starts with the issue where a couple of classes have broken builds that can even do that. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth will occur if they ever bring necromancer back anywhere close to level-banded content, for example.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:24
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I've always thought fire deaths go on about 1-2 waves too long. Gimme the fuse/swelling sound from D3, have the explosion building graphic and delete my rear end if I ignore it. Instead it bursts like twice and fires off the triple wave another two times, lol.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:24
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This raises the very real question of, "Does Diablo require skill? Is it possible to be Good at Diablo?"
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Aug 25, 2023 22:25
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Name Change posted:This doesn't really end getting CC'd, it just deals with some of the more obnoxious CC. Honestly I am fairly OK with everything except getting AWP'd by corpse bows and that almost unavoidable ghost ray attack. corpse bows are about the only thing in the game that i think is bullshit (though spider webs can be annoying, thankfully they're only a root) and thats just because you cant even see them ramp up the shot and ive still never died or come close to dying to one. the ghost ray attack has about five seconds of telegraphing Doomykins posted:I've always thought fire deaths go on about 1-2 waves too long. Gimme the fuse/swelling sound from D3, have the explosion building graphic and delete my rear end if I ignore it. Instead it bursts like twice and fires off the triple wave another two times, lol. it fires one tri-wave, then an explosion, and then another wave
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Aug 25, 2023 22:25
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Verviticus posted:ok. so make the game harder instead of easier? im not sure what you're getting at. I can make the game more difficult, by raising the nm dungeon I am completing and making all the enemies more dangerous (ideally there would also be a tangible upside to this mechanically but I digress) but you reach the point where the post death effects and the corpse bows kill you instantly well prior to most monsters being a threat at all. The corpse bow (and to a lesser degree, post death farts) don't add any meaningful difficulty to killing the monsters, it is in the corpse bow case you die when it hits you from off screen then respawn miles away to run over and kill it now that you know its there, or in the death farts case running around in circles until its safe to go loot. The killing of the monster is already done, it's just added tedium prior to the next portion of gameplay. Verviticus posted:corpse bows are about the only thing in the game that i think is bullshit (though spider webs can be annoying, thankfully they're only a root) and thats just because you cant even see them ramp up the shot and ive still never died or come close to dying to one. the ghost ray attack has about five seconds of telegraphing Corpse bows kill a sorcerer stacking Dr from off screen because of the hideous zoom level in one shot regularly at even just +20 levels. It shoots off two tri waves and explodes, and another wave, an absolute eternity of time doing nothing at all. flashman fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 25, 2023 |
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Aug 25, 2023 22:26
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flashman posted:The killing of the monster is already done, it's just added tedium prior to the next portion of gameplay. i think maybe theres just a thing where when people play ARPGs they can only see any component of the game this. perhaps this difference is irreconcilable, like when people say that being in town for 30 seconds is an arduous torture designed to separate them from more killing and looting
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Aug 25, 2023 22:29
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Hulk Krogan posted:Literally just let me long press on the gate nodes to pop up a "do you want to refund this whole board for x million gold?" dialogue. Keep the costs the same, I don't care. Yeah, I think folks accept if there's going to be a hit to gold, just let there be a one-button paragon point refund button, like what abilities already has.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:30
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:This raises the very real question of, "Does Diablo require skill? Is it possible to be Good at Diablo?" It's dangerously close to a cookie clicker. Most of the skill comes from figuring out which things on your skill tree/paragon board are traps (a minority--you can level on anything as long as you are doing +crit or consistent vuln procs). But now we're diving into how mistuned the skills are! I felt like D4 was a very different game from any other Diablo early on when I was playing a shadow melee necromancer and had to worry about dodging ever. Then you just incrementally get more and more items that let you stop interacting with a lot of skill-based play. If it turns into dust in two seconds I don't have to worry about what it is or what it's doing.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:31
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Verviticus posted:yeah you're correct. idk if i ever thought the damage from a fire explosion was bullshit and certainly not the loving post-death tri-missile that does insignificant damage. i question the thinking of people that have felt that way i don’t think i’ve ever died to these, mostly because i was aware of them because of wow mythic dungeons. i still think they’re dumb because it is a mechanic that makes me not engage with the game, having to sit around and wait for animation to finish to be safe, because who knows, maybe there could be something like the NM FE bug from D2 and i get one shot. especially if a FE mob is the last one to die in s pack. double especially if they’re the type of mobs that doesn’t drop their loot until they’ve finished their death animation. it’s good imo to have to watch out for mob damage and deadly combinations of affixes (not that there are really any in D4). i think it could be good to have to watch out for stuff after death too, but static wait for death explosion stuff just feels like a bad speedbimp imo not bullshit because of the damage though
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Aug 25, 2023 22:31
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it doesnt really matter what respeccing costs if blizzard is too loving stupid to evaluate whether or not "trade gold and pull the ethernet cable" is a viable way to dupe it like loving seriously? next its gonna be revealed that if you click an item when you pick up a potion you can have two of the item
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Aug 25, 2023 22:31
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I’m 68 and have been basically doing nothing but T4 NMDs and maybe a helltide here and there. I don’t know how y’all can do this all the way 100.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:33
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Verviticus posted:i think maybe theres just a thing where when people play ARPGs they can only see any component of the game this. perhaps this difference is irreconcilable, like when people say that being in town for 30 seconds is an arduous torture designed to separate them from more killing and looting Strawmanning aside, D4 towns are the worst towns because you spend most of your time there reading overpopulated tooltips and walking between vendors. It's just a step back in all kinds of ways.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:35
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harrygomm posted:i don’t think i’ve ever died to these, mostly because i was aware of them because of wow mythic dungeons. i still think they’re dumb because it is a mechanic that makes me not engage with the game, having to sit around and wait for animation to finish to be safe, because who knows, maybe there could be something like the NM FE bug from D2 and i get one shot. especially if a FE mob is the last one to die in s pack. double especially if they’re the type of mobs that doesn’t drop their loot until they’ve finished their death animation. it’s good imo to have to watch out for mob damage and deadly combinations of affixes (not that there are really any in D4). i think it could be good to have to watch out for stuff after death too, but static wait for death explosion stuff just feels like a bad speedbimp imo i think the version of this that i dont really like is the posion enchanted one that spreads upon every explosion. i genuinely dont think i remember thinking "and now i gotta wait for this to explode" and sometimes i kinda like the game of trying to loot and scoot before it blows me up
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Aug 25, 2023 22:36
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Vic posted:Strawmanning aside, D4 towns are the worst towns because you spend most of your time there reading overpopulated tooltips and walking between vendors. It's just a step back in all kinds of ways. id be totally happy with d4 towns if there was one that was ergonomically well made that was accessible maybe after the campaign is over, and i could set it to my default. as it is yeah they kinda stink but i'm never so inconvenienced that i think too hard about it. also they've got nothing on that stupid loving troll pyramid capital city in wow. or the lovely class halls if you werent a warrior. what im saying is they could be a thousand times worse
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Aug 25, 2023 22:39
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Economy, risk, and decision making with consequences are really fun in an RPG setting. Hades has been scratching the itch. Hardcore Diablo does help make the game more interesting, but i hate the smooth boring progression of MMOs where everything just scales in a line and there might as well not levels. Everyone wants the same stats so why even have different stats? All the monsters die and behave exactly the same way. I don't even have to take any mechanics into account except for death throws: for some reason the most powerful monster ability. I just hope itemization and combat gets more varied in future seasons. I do like the game overall, but man it is losing me fast. D3 GR progression was at least programmatically generated and always felt like a risk as you pushed upward. There was always a chance that it was going to be a hard one with scary mechanics to deal with.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:43
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Verviticus posted:id be totally happy with d4 towns if there was one that was ergonomically well made that was accessible maybe after the campaign is over, and i could set it to my default. as it is yeah they kinda stink but i'm never so inconvenienced that i think too hard about it. also they've got nothing on that stupid loving troll pyramid capital city in wow. or the lovely class halls if you werent a warrior. what im saying is they could be a thousand times worse Also D1: The Town D2: The 5 Towns D3: The Caravan D4: We're excited to introduce you to the world of Sanctuary
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Aug 25, 2023 22:46
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Vic posted:Also The overworld as implemented isnt great it's like they took the blood moor made it massive and have this huge empty map.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:56
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I like the stick and move gameplay that the ground effects encourage
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Aug 25, 2023 23:01
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Same as the dungeon thing that follows you
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Aug 25, 2023 23:02
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The Lightning Dome owns because you can simply ignore it lol "owie, lil sting, oof!" as you fly through the dungeon
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Aug 25, 2023 23:05
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:The Lightning Dome owns because you can simply ignore it lol Never saw a person being so hype about what's essentially early onset arthritis.
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Aug 25, 2023 23:23
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Verviticus posted:i think the version of this that i dont really like is the posion enchanted one that spreads upon every explosion. i genuinely dont think i remember thinking "and now i gotta wait for this to explode" and sometimes i kinda like the game of trying to loot and scoot before it blows me up the bloated drowned guts don’t give out their loot until they explode animation finishes, same with the fly spawning sacs, same with dungeons ending of the last mob is a waller that puts up walls, apparently those are counted as mobs so completion can be held up by that. none of those are big deals, just seems like it’s made with a rule of cool/aesthetic focus rather than one based around the idea that i have killed over 5000 of those fly sacs or whatever and have spent a full hours of my playtime already just waiting for their topple animation to happen it’s not something that is forefront of my mind at all times r: “now i gotta wait” it’s just idk, it doesn’t feel like a skillful or intentional interaction point. like reading one of the big cannibal guys winding up his double overhead stun slam and dodging or baiting a boar into charging the wrong way. not every interaction needs to be a focus or skill check i just don’t feel like the current post death effects fit in with the other kind of mob interactions they have. not sure how to better word it
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Aug 25, 2023 23:33
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Time posted:Same as the dungeon thing that follows you I really love when a ranged elite posts up under the space triangle (or 2 or 3) and just shoot at you and the triangle won’t move.
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Aug 25, 2023 23:45
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| # ? May 27, 2024 17:39 |
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Am I the only one that never really had much trouble with corpse bows? Literally the only time I can remember them causing problems is when I did a tier 100 NMD and then I was getting one-shotted. It's possible this is because I played ranged and thus prioritized distant DR, but I don't live in terror of them like most people seem to.
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