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inflatablefish posted:Guys I think it's immensely disrespectful to the source material for us to not go Full Horny Dumbass. good
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Aug 24, 2023 18:34
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I mean, if someone with talent wants to do a drawing of Nova Good Girl Art like on the cover of a 40's pulp I'm not going to object.
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Aug 24, 2023 18:52
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People keep saying that the game retroactively justifies the choices you make, no matter which one you pick. Is the justification here that Tosh attacks you, exactly how Nova predicted he would....? Because uh, that's a pretty reasonable reaction to being betrayed
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Aug 24, 2023 18:57
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bladededge posted:I mean, if someone with talent wants to do a drawing of Nova Good Girl Art like on the cover of a 40's pulp I'm not going to object. Please don't. She's oversexualized by Blizzard as it is.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:00
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Marluxia posted:People keep saying that the game retroactively justifies the choices you make, no matter which one you pick. Is the justification here that Tosh attacks you, exactly how Nova predicted he would....? Spoilers for the alternative mission we won't be seeing for a bit longer: He got hold of some psi brainwashing thingies and brainwashes the people he trains into spectres to obey him. IIRC he might also be mentioned to be a psi supremacists. Not really the kind of a person you want to give any help to. And yeah, he also tries to kill us, but that's pretty reasonable reaction. Xarn fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 20:22
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Covert 3: Breakout Video: Breakout  Bros before hoes, Nova.   But I'll take your word over a Dominion assassin's any day. We've come this far together - may as well see it through.          What else?       For this mission I play as Tosh himself. He has a good amount of bulk, a powerful gun, and permanent cloak.  He will be the only unit I control for this entire mission.  Raynor, meanwhile, has set up shop nearby as an AI controlled ally.  NPC Jimmy also gets early access to the Shadow Ops, the Ghost/Spectre prereq building.  The first group of Marines I kill for funsies.  While the second opens up Tosh's first spell.  Mindblast is an AoE stun that also deals 35 damage for 50 energy.  This means I just need two Mindblasts to kill an entire group of Marines.   Just after them is the Obligatory Detector Tutorial, in case you haven't done the Zeratul missions yet. A quick Mindblast stuns the Marines in front long enough to thin them out without taking too much damage.  And just after that is a Siege Tank that unlocks Tosh's second spell: Psi Shield.  Shield, run up, Mindblast to stun the Tank.  Then run up so it's forced to waste time swapping modes.  Up ahead is a base that'd be far too much for Tosh to crack on his own, so the other aspect of the mission starts up.  Raynor will now send out waves of troops to support me. They're just set to attack-move all the way to the objective, but any shot on them is a shot not on Tosh while any Missile Turrets are up.  With this, the flow of the mission becomes clear. Push into the enemy base alongside Jim's forces, back off and chip away at any defenses I can safely hit when they die, repeat.  And Jim will need the help. Tanks are bad on their own, but Hellions are hell against Light targets and Jim's forces don't have enough Marines to blitz them down before they can attack.  When the next wave hits, I shield and make for the Turret.  The shield can't eat everything, but I take it down without much fuss.  Of course, New Folsom won't just sit around and let me win. They're sending out their own attack waves to counter Jim's, forcing me to wear them down in advance so my reinforcements don't get stuck in a stalemate.  Jim can handle infantry on his own. Once I'm in a base, my priority is to hit the backline and knock out major threats and any production the base has. This is also our first look at the Tech Reactor, a combined Tech Lab and Reactor. They're one of the upgrade choices for the final protoss research.  I take out the second Turret so I can move freely. Since Tosh is very specifically Psionic, not Light, Hellions just tickle him.   Every time a base falls, Raynor drops in a group of units to claim it for himself.  He'll also make more production structures and start sending bigger attack waves, but the prison will do the same.  First there's nothing...  Then there's a Ghost! He's set to decloak the moment Tosh gets close and fire off an EMP Round, instantly draining 100 energy and revealing Tosh for several seconds. Strangely, while there are multiple Ghosts here this is the only one in the entire mission that does this.  This is the trigger for his final spell: Consumption. It drains half the life from a targeted ally and gives double that in energy. Tag a Marauder and I get 100 energy in one shot. This incentivizes sticking with attack waves instead of trying to do everything on your own. Tosh can run back, get patched up by a Medic, and nibble on a few Marauders to top off before heading back into the fight.  Up ahead is a Turret guarded by two Bunkers with a few SCVs on hand for repairs.  Thankfully, there's a side path that lets me slip by.  Which is good, considering just past them are three tanks.  Knock out the tanks.  Then double back to link up with Jim and use a mix of Psi Shield and Mindblast to safely destroy the Turret. Mindblast stuns all units in a Bunker, so there's no risk.  Once this checkpoint is mostly gone the first bonus objective pops.  I have to clear out all the enemies in this area, with no backup from Jim's forces.  Double Mindblast to take out a good chunk.  Shield to cover me while I move next to the tank, using the transformation time to kill the rest.   And done.   The prisoners will now occasionally send in a Diamondback tank to bolster Jim's attacks. What's a Diamondback do? Well I guess you'll have to wait till we do their unlock mission to find out.  There's this really obvious arrow on the floor that should be obeyed.  Since it gives a good vantage point over the next base. The catch is that there's a Raven giving high ground vision on Tosh.  Good thing stunned units don't give vision!   From here I can knock out a Siege Tank.  And a Turret.  Attack waves are significantly larger now.  Slip in and rush down the Turret.  Then burn down the rest of the base.  And Jim takes the base for himself.  And the second bonus shows up.  Don't you worry about us, Tosh. We'll keep 'em busy while you free the prisoners!Although this one has two tanks and a patrolling Raven to deal with.  Shield, chain Mindblast to knock out the Raven.  Done.  This group will send out Siege Tanks.  And all that's left is the main enemy base.  Just don't call the strike in too close.  Now, I could slowly wear down these opening defenses and save my nukes for what's inside...  However-   Inside are even more guys.  But once I take out these tanks for Raynor I have something to do first.  Also the enemy has Thors. Just thought you'd want to know.  Now, I need to skirt past the edge of this Turret's range.  This leads to a ramp.  At the top of the ramp are a few Reapers.  And, far more importantly, the remaining Factories, plus Starports that are making air units for attack waves now that I'm in the home stretch.   Two nukes is a hefty cost, but the enemy doesn't rebuild anything so this permanently removes Hellions from enemy attack waves, making it much easier for mine to get in.  And my final nuke is used to crack what's left of the low ground.  There's another ramp I can take on the opposite side.  This leads to the rest of the enemy's production. I could have nuked this side down to take out the infantry, but I figured the AoE Hellions were a higher priority.  All that's left is this batch of defenders. The high ground is set to reveal whenever you get close so you aren't forced to get someone up the ramp for vision, so I use it to take out the tanks and Bunkers.  And then I get risky.  There's a very tiny area here that has no detection, so I push past all the remaining defenders to squeeze in.  And it just so happens to let me safely take down those buildings we saw earlier.  This mission is practically over at this point. With all production gone, no more attack waves can be sent out and Raynor can slowly grind down the remaining defenders even if I just sat around and did nothing.  Doesn't mean I can't speed things up a bit.  It'll be fiiiiiiiiiiiine.    The mission ends when every building is destroyed.        Love the Bomb - Kill a total of 50 units with Nuclear Strikes in the "Breakout" mission on Normal difficulty. BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Aug 26, 2023 02:17
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Fun Fact: The results screen shows a beta version of this mission where the opponent did not have access to upgraded bunkers and used an earlier version of the Dominion decal.
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Aug 26, 2023 05:30
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Huh, that decal looks like a combo between the original sc1 arm with whip but stylized to resemble the emblem of the brotherhood of nod from command and conquer. ...That's a much better look than what we got. Kith posted:Fun Fact: The results screen shows a beta version of this mission where the opponent did not have access to upgraded bunkers and used an earlier version of the Dominion decal.
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Aug 26, 2023 08:08
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Using two nukes to take out the factories is unneccessary - one should be enough to send them into the red, and there are no SCVs to repair them (at least on Hard, never played on Brutal).
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Aug 26, 2023 08:24
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Hell yeah, justice wins.
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Aug 26, 2023 08:42
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Nostalgamus posted:Using two nukes to take out the factories is unneccessary - one should be enough to send them into the red, and there are no SCVs to repair them (at least on Hard, never played on Brutal). There are SCVs on brutal so 2 are needed there.
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Aug 26, 2023 08:59
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Tosh seems to have the most psionic abilities of any Terran we've seen in SC so far, is he supposed to be uniquely gifted? And what is the advantage of ghosts/spectres being psionic anyway? Other than the cloak, which could be tech based like the wraith, SC1 ghosts didn't really do anything psionic.
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Aug 26, 2023 11:54
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In the SC1 LP thread, someone made an interesting argument that Ghosts are effectively channeling a lot of their psychic powers into being overall tougher somehow: compare a Ghost's HP (100) to a Marine's (45). Recall that a Marine is wearing some kind of heavy powered armor. The Ghost is wearing a skintight recon suit. What this could represent is less clear: some kind of innate deflection telekinesis? A limited precognitive "danger sense"? Both, something else? I also think it's notable that while Terrans have cloak tech, the only units that get it are vehicles and the Ghost (or Spectre now). Maybe their tech isn't usually man-portable, but Ghost psionics let them cloak when they normally wouldn't be able to... like the field is not normally strong enough, but the Ghost's psychic "belief" in it makes it work, idk.
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Aug 26, 2023 12:05
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That's basically how I interpreted it from the description block in the SC1 manual. Ghosts are using their powers to just be better at everything. Aim, reaction time, stamina, durability. It's why they can carry a heavy personal cloaking device instead of wearing heavy armor. Some obviously have more spectacular powers too, as when Kerrigan demonstrated the ability to read Raynor's surface thoughts when they met. There's a plot point about 'limiters' that the Overmind needs to get off her before she can psi storm - this suggests the thing with Spectres is that they don't have those limiters stopping them from using MIND GRENADES and that's why Nova is freaked out by them. It's a little disappointing that this wasn't developed more. Kerrigan can read people's thoughts. Surely she suspected what Arcturus was up to, who he really was. She followed orders anyway. There's more going on beneath the surface there. SC2 of course dropped that like every other interesting plot ball.
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Aug 26, 2023 14:32
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bladededge posted:That's basically how I interpreted it from the description block in the SC1 manual. Ghosts are using their powers to just be better at everything. Aim, reaction time, stamina, durability. It's why they can carry a heavy personal cloaking device instead of wearing heavy armor. (minor unit ability spoilers) The WoL Ghost having an ability called "snipe" is significant here: sure, you can be a sniper without psychic powers, but how many normal soldiers can go from just walking around to snap-shootting an enemy right in the eye (or other vulnerable point) repeatedly, with consistent pinpoint accuracy? Sounds spooky! bladededge posted:It's a little disappointing that this wasn't developed more. Kerrigan can read people's thoughts. Surely she suspected what Arcturus was up to, who he really was. She followed orders anyway. There's more going on beneath the surface there. SC2 of course dropped that like every other interesting plot ball. When was the last time prior to getting infested that Kerrigan met Mengsk in person? iirc she met Jimmy on the road and read his thoughts, so maybe it requires physical proximity. Maybe by the time he decided to tie her up as a loose end, he stopped meeting with her in person.
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Aug 26, 2023 14:59
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bladededge posted:It's a little disappointing that this wasn't developed more. Kerrigan can read people's thoughts. Surely she suspected what Arcturus was up to, who he really was. She followed orders anyway. There's more going on beneath the surface there. SC2 of course dropped that like every other interesting plot ball. GunnerJ posted:When was the last time prior to getting infested that Kerrigan met Mengsk in person? iirc she met Jimmy on the road and read his thoughts, so maybe it requires physical proximity. Maybe by the time he decided to tie her up as a loose end, he stopped meeting with her in person. Liberty's Crusade mentions that Kerrigan only gets surface thoughts passively and has to manually dig deeper, and a combination of Mengsk being very good at hiding his intentions and Kerrigan not wanting to delve too deep into the man that saved her kept her from taking a look. When she does look through everything he has after he deployed Psi Emitters on Tarsonis she was furious, buuuuuuuuuuuut immediately after that was New Gettysburg and welp. 
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Aug 26, 2023 15:26
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 This thread got recommended in Pragmatica's new "here's some cool threads across the forums" post!
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Aug 26, 2023 15:29
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wait what
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Aug 26, 2023 15:36
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bladededge posted:That's basically how I interpreted it from the description block in the SC1 manual. Ghosts are using their powers to just be better at everything. Aim, reaction time, stamina, durability. It's why they can carry a heavy personal cloaking device instead of wearing heavy armor. Are psionics even well fleshed out in SC or is it all just vague space magic? I'm just curious because there's the whole thing about Terrans being new to it while the Protoss had it inately since before even the Xel'Naga (I think, might misremember that). Would Terrans eventually be like the Protoss forming mind blades and communicating entirely through telepathy? Or is it a species specific thing where Terrans will have their own unique psi power? If it's the latter I find it interesting that the main human psi power is to become invisible which is a Dark Templar thing. But maybe I'm just trying to draw connections between story and gameplay elements that were never intended.
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Aug 26, 2023 15:39
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BisbyWorl posted:wait what One of the admins occasionally makes an announcement with a bunch of interesting things on the forums for people to go look at, the most recent one includes this thread.
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Aug 26, 2023 15:40
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bladededge posted:There's more going on beneath the surface there. SC2 of course dropped that like every other interesting plot ball. how can you blame SC2 for something SC1 and Brood War failed to do
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Aug 26, 2023 17:48
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BisbyWorl posted:wait what I recommended it because the thread's been a fun read so far!
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Aug 26, 2023 20:02
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CheeseThief posted:Are psionics even well fleshed out in SC or is it all just vague space magic? I'm just curious because there's the whole thing about Terrans being new to it while the Protoss had it inately since before even the Xel'Naga (I think, might misremember that). Would Terrans eventually be like the Protoss forming mind blades and communicating entirely through telepathy? Or is it a species specific thing where Terrans will have their own unique psi power? If it's the latter I find it interesting that the main human psi power is to become invisible which is a Dark Templar thing. But maybe I'm just trying to draw connections between story and gameplay elements that were never intended. Just... just hold on to that for about 2 and a half expansions. It'll come up.
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Aug 27, 2023 00:11
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Torchlighter posted:Just... just hold on to that for about 2 and a half expansions. It'll come up. And it’ll be the dumbest loving thing when it finally does.
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Aug 27, 2023 00:14
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I'm guessing its explained by mitochondria being the powerhouse of the cell, or something like that
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Aug 27, 2023 00:16
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Intermission 12 Cinematic: A Better Tomorrow       And to cap off this mission chain we get a nice, feel-good cinematic about all the people we saved.           The problem here is that since you don't have to do this mission, it'll pretty much never be brought up again after this cutscene. All those scientists, philosophers, and free thinkers? Yeah, they drop right into the Void. The Tosh/Nova split gets maybe 5 lines acknowlodging it in HotS.                               Holy poo poo we got money again! >Watch news.     The evidence we have suggests it was, Donny. For once, Donny doesn't have to stretch for this.  >Talk to Tosh.   It's our choice whether to become Spectres - not hers, not yours and not Mengsk's. Choice be the only true freedom anyone gets. But can I trust 'em? Can I trust you? Don't you worry none. We'll fight for you right to the end. All my brothers and sisters - we owe you everything.A lot of the chats this time will be hammering it in that Nova was, in fact, totally full of poo poo and you would have to be a total sucker to fall for it. >Talk to Tychus.   Mengsk locked 'em up because they were just weapons to him. They deserve a shot at livin' their lives outside of a cage... just like anyone else. Spectres are one of the few units that'll show up in the Armory. >Talk to Swann.    Good to know. Wouldn't want any of those freaks running loose causin' trouble. Aside from Tosh, that is.>Examine Spectres.  >Use Armory Console.  The Spectre opens up an entirely new tab in the Armory.  Their upgrades consist of the Psionic Lash and the Nyx-Class Cloaking Module. (Cloaking no longer costs energy, 125K credits.)  Buuuuuuuuut those are both fairly expensive, so I instead grab both the Terran Building upgrades.  >Talk to Hanson.     A sudden increase in psionic ability could induce a psychotic break, but Spectres aren't the monsters we were led to believe. Nova lied to us.A C A B  >Talk to Horner.   Matt, my interest in justice burned out a long time ago. I've spent my whole life fighting; I've killed, I've ordered good men to their deaths - and for what? Finishing this thing with Mengsk... it's all I have left. It's guys like you that'll build something better after all the smoke clears. That's because you gave us something to believe in, sir. I'll never give up the fight. That's a promise.Now, normally this is where I'd throw up the poll...  But we have to make a quick stop to the Non-Canon Zone first.
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Aug 27, 2023 03:18
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I was indeed clued into this thread's existence by Pragmatica's post, since I do tend to get locked into reading only what I've got handy. It kind of makes me sad, honestly -- I swore off ever touching a Blizz game again years back, even the ones I owned already, and the thread really makes me just want to replay WoL again. Every now and then I get the itch because, to be honest, it's a fun jaunt gameplay-wise. The writing's also much more enjoyable, as observed, when you don't have SC1 lurking around your head to think about it -- I'd played all of SC1, but long ago when I finally tried WoL, and never in close enough conjunction to make me fully realize how much the two clash. It probably also helps that I played WoL because it was free -- remember, only the multiplayer component of SC2 was for-pay when the game launched, the campaign was free (or was after a certain point). I never played either of the followup campaigns because at that point I was already running out of patience for giving Blizzard my money, as opposed to later when I also swore off giving them my time. As I understand it this made me miss out on some very good characters, but overall since the story appears to be a heap based on the comments in the thread I'd call it a wash. But, of course, absence makes the heart grow fonder and gives it the itch to play the RTS again. At least I have a very good LP to read instead.
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Aug 27, 2023 03:29
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TOSH REPORT TO MEDBAY YOUR BODY IS SERIOUSLY hosed UP Fun Fact: The cloaking that Tosh uses in that cutscene is called "Terran Cloak", and that's the only time it's used. Originally there were plans to have a cloak visual for every faction/team color, but it was decided that was too visually messy, so the standard light blue cloaking effect is used for everything. It's still possible to use the Terran Cloak material, but if it's enabled then it's universal. Kith fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Aug 27, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 03:29
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Will the Non-Canon Zone be able to show off the post-mission Hyperion Bridge dialogue too? I don't think I've ever actually chosen the Nova campaign side (because why the gently caress would you trust Nova over Tosh) and it'd be interesting to see just how Ariel, Horner, etc react.
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Aug 27, 2023 03:31
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MagusofStars posted:Will the Non-Canon Zone be able to show off the post-mission Hyperion Bridge dialogue too? I don't think I've ever actually chosen the Nova campaign side (because why the gently caress would you trust Nova over Tosh) and it'd be interesting to see just how Ariel, Horner, etc react. Yes, since I'm reloading an earlier save rather than playing through the archives. Fun fact: If you do play through the archive it actually skips a bit of the cutscene, skipping the bit where whoever you didn't pick tells you to gently caress off.
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Aug 27, 2023 03:36
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Any idea where they got the names for the people released? Blizzard staff, friends, random nonsense?
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Aug 27, 2023 03:54
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Redeye Flight posted:It kind of makes me sad, honestly -- I swore off ever touching a Blizz game again years back, even the ones I owned already, and the thread really makes me just want to replay WoL again. Every now and then I get the itch because, to be honest, it's a fun jaunt gameplay-wise. The writing's also much more enjoyable, as observed, when you don't have SC1 lurking around your head to think about it -- I'd played all of SC1, but long ago when I finally tried WoL, and never in close enough conjunction to make me fully realize how much the two clash. They already have that money, and that's their bottom line. Frankly the holy grail for corps would be for consumers to pay them and not have to give them anything in return. Absolutely don't give them another cent, but refusing to play games you already have is only depriving yourself for some abstract high ground. Meanwhile playing it might put load on their servers or something and cost them some maintenance money down the line. Personally I'd rather needle them in the wallet (however slightly) and be entertained doing it. Apparently SC1 and Brood War are free now too, so I don't have to dig out my discs to remember the good times, and can freeload WoL, which I never got around to and forgot it was a thing (singleplayer only - I ain't giving any amount of life to their MP, whether it needs it or not).
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Aug 27, 2023 03:54
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I do have a couple of comments to make about this version of events and Nova's, but I'll hold off just a little longer, until we can see Nova's version to compare. But the summary of my comments are as follows: Nova's version doesn't do nearly as much to make her version the "right choice" as people act like it does. In fact, it doesn't do a drat thing. I will emphasize one detail: Raynor talking to Swann... he talks about how there's no brainwashing involved, and how it's "part of the deal". He's not talking about "the deal" with how Tosh makes Spectres. He's talking about the deal he made with Tosh. But again, I'll wait to explain further until after Nova's mission.
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Aug 27, 2023 04:57
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titty_baby_ posted:I'm guessing its explained by mitochondria being the powerhouse of the cell, or something like that No, that's Parasite Eve.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:29
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Calax posted:No, that's Parasite Eve. Parasite Steve, of course, is in the other Starcraft LP.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:48
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Calax posted:No, that's Parasite Eve. if Kerrigan makes it all the way to St. Edmund's Hospital and steals the Dominion's strategic cum reserve, all hope is lost
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Aug 27, 2023 06:09
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That conversation between Matt, Horner and Tosh was actually a decent bit of writing, shame everything involving the metaplot of the three games.
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Aug 27, 2023 06:42
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Something I want to talk about now that we've seen it, Spectres (and Ghosts) are very effective at neutering defense missions with the 'cloaking costs no energy' upgrade. Most notably the Dig—the Protoss on that mission send no detectors after you, so you can just have a small number of perma-cloaked Spectres/Ghosts standing on the ramps leading up to your base, and the Protoss will mill about for the entire mission trying to get in—the only threats are the flying waves and cliff-climbing Colossi.
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Aug 27, 2023 07:53
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BisbyWorl posted:And to cap off this mission chain we get a nice, feel-good cinematic about all the people we saved. Aside from being a very fun mission, I think this cutscene is probably the best writing in the game - or at least it would be if the rest of the campaign reflected on it at all - and is about the only part that really stuck with me afterwards.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:06
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I don't think I've ever seen the Nova branch, so I'm really curious how that plays out. I remember starting a new playthrough several years ago with the intention of doing so, but the game chased me off with its overwhelming Wings of Liberty-ness.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:24
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