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well this is the coolest loving thing ive ever seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Cy_5pQXIc
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Aug 27, 2023 03:55
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World War Mammories posted:it is not a problem. they do it by the skin of their teeth on both enrages with clever use of every goddamn invuln and trick in the book. you haven't ever stepped foot in a savage raid, I believe? do you think that these challenge runs are holding you back from doing so or are you continually opining on content you both have no experience in and no desire to do? It's literally impossible without Paladins due to how P12S P2 does certain tankbusters needing 2 Esunas (and this group only has 1).
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Aug 27, 2023 04:20
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 A8S BLU is no joke. What a miserably particular fight all the way up to doing Gavel skip, where it becomes a joke at last; it's way too easy to DPS too hard during that fight and throw everything out of whack. I actually think BJ Part 2 could be burned down with just one full opener alongside Mortal Flame/Breath of Magic and ending with Final Sting.
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Aug 27, 2023 04:28
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's literally impossible without Paladins due to how P12S P2 does certain tankbusters needing 2 Esunas (and this group only has 1). seriously. two warriors and two paladins because pretty much no other combination would work, specifically bard for warden's paean, red mage and dancer with monk for mantra, judicious use of invulns to get around everything from paradeigma 1 to crush helm, everyone outgearing it by 20 item levels and doing the mechanics flawlessly, and they still only barely pull it off. and yet we have cleretic doing his stupid poo poo again. woe
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Aug 27, 2023 04:32
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Kerrzhe posted:well this is the coolest loving thing ive ever seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uasDOdZN0p4 for the full fireworks show, which I mostly appreciate as a rhythm game enjoyer (I find it emotionally satisfying when things happen on a beat). They actually set them off to the rhythm of "bowdownoverdweller, bowdownoverdweller, bowdownoverdweller, Titan" and manage to land most of them! (9:25) Bruceski fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Aug 27, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 04:37
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Shinjobi posted:the WHAT? The first boss of Prae is a robot with a weird little thong underwear situation for unclear reasons, probably "the Garleans are weirdos." It's not all that weird but it's hard to unsee
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Aug 27, 2023 04:40
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Bruceski posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uasDOdZN0p4 for the full fireworks show, which I mostly appreciate as a rhythm game enjoyer (I find it emotionally satisfying when things happen on a beat). They actually set them off to the rhythm of "bowdownoverdweller, bowdownoverdweller, bowdownoverdweller, Titan" and manage to land most of them! (9:25) yep i just finished watching the whole thing 
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Aug 27, 2023 05:02
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What have we done...
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Aug 27, 2023 05:02
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Aug 27, 2023 05:10
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Aug 27, 2023 05:39
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World War Mammories posted:seriously. two warriors and two paladins because pretty much no other combination would work, specifically bard for warden's paean, red mage and dancer with monk for mantra, judicious use of invulns to get around everything from paradeigma 1 to crush helm, everyone outgearing it by 20 item levels and doing the mechanics flawlessly, and they still only barely pull it off. and yet we have cleretic doing his stupid poo poo again. woe Look if we don’t balance the game around perfect play from overgeared people can we really call the game balanced? After all, if a person that doesn’t even play the content is worried that the top players can pull off challenge clears, well, better rebalance it so less people can clear it! Time to make healing honest again! No healing from non healers, no damage from healers, more unavoidable damage! Let Oprah hand out harrowing hell to all the bosses! You get a ton of raid damage and you get a ton of raid damage! Healers going to rehab for their ether addiction.
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Aug 27, 2023 06:07
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I don't think it's a problem that people can do stuff like this, but I do think the reasons that this is possible are also the reasons I quit healing in this game.
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Aug 27, 2023 07:15
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Hellioning posted:I don't think it's a problem that people can do stuff like this, but I do think the reasons that this is possible are also the reasons I quit healing in this game. Interestingly amongst savage raiders the P5-8 tier caused a lot of healers to stop healing because it was a lot more difficult to heal than Savage fights usually are (due to the way they designed those fights). Yes, this group can heal through P12S, but a pair of healers would be so much better at it than this jank 2 paladin 2 warrior 1 bard/dancer/monk/red mage group. This isn't even particularly about the amount of sustain tanks have, because almost nothing but Savage actually stresses anyones resources to begin with in terms of sustain (I can heal most damage I take on Samurai in dungeons between well timed bloodthirst and second wind because dungeons really just don't do damage to people who aren't tanks often enough). The game is designed such that a bad healer (or a bad tank) cannot stop a group from clearing normal difficulty content and I don't know if there's a way for it to be designed otherwise and still be enjoyable to a lot of people (no knock to people who do want their healing to matter, but it absolutely does for the vast majority of extreme and savage players). Although I admittedly don't know what reasons you mean here, because this is done by the skin of their teeth and they very clearly are struggling to succeed without a healer and are using a specific team composition to compensate for missing 2 healers by combining a bunch of utility stuff on the DPS and tanks (Vercure, Curing Waltz and Improvisation, Nature's Minne, Mantra). They're using a lot of resources to replace 2 players for almost zero gain (and in fact they're losing damage because you can and will kill the boss faster than they do with a standard composition party).
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Aug 27, 2023 07:29
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I mostly just dislike, when I did savage stuff (nothing like ultimate), I spent most of my time hitting my DPS button and maybe weaving in one cooldown every couple of seconds unless someone screwed up. It was just uninteresting to functionally be a one button DPS class. True, I haven't done the hardest content in the game, and I haven't healed high-end content this expac so maybe it's changed? But this stuff being cleared without healers makes me feel like I wouldn't enjoy it if I went back.
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Aug 27, 2023 07:43
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Hellioning posted:I mostly just dislike, when I did savage stuff (nothing like ultimate), I spent most of my time hitting my DPS button and maybe weaving in one cooldown every couple of seconds unless someone screwed up. It was just uninteresting to functionally be a one button DPS class. They're using an entire 8 man team to replicate the healing capabilities of 2 players. Yeah you still spend a lot of time hitting the DPS button (and that is bad design) but this tier (and Abyssos even more) have a lot of actual checks on how you use your healing resources. Particularly the Savage version of 10. Ultimates also are even more "use your healing buttons" content than savages, although TOP got cleared without healers as well via much the same mechanisms it was so down to the wire that the boss nearly finished casting the final enrage. But yeah, in the end healing is very much the "undo a screwup" job if you want to have to do a lot of constant healing in FFXIV, that's not likely to change because healers have more healing than they need in any encounter ever as a safety measure for screwups (except Ultimates, where screwups are wipes, and even that isn't entirely true). Also, the first tier, which I think I remember reading you did on savage? Is always going to be the easiest on every role, because it's the "starting" point for fresh to the game savage raiders since there's very little incentive or reason for them to start in earlier raids in terms of enjoying high end content. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Aug 27, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 07:50
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I haven't did any savage this expac at all, healing or no; last time I did was Shadowbringers, where I did the first two tiers. Like I said, it's not really a problem this is possible, I'm just not a fan.
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Aug 27, 2023 07:57
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Hellioning posted:I haven't did any savage this expac at all, healing or no; last time I did was Shadowbringers, where I did the first two tiers. Fair and I do get that, I'm just showing that this is not at all trivial or even feasible for 99% of players to do, if your worry is the lack of need for healers to actually heal. For what it is worth, there has been a general dissatisfaction from healers this expansion. Between the still very simple dps rotations, and the increasingly difficult demands savage fights place on healers to actually heal properly both ends of the spectrum are getting squeezed out. Some healers never want to use a GCD heal and this Savage set has made that very very difficult, both in terms of never using a GCD heal, and the dps pattern remaining terminally boring when you don't have to scramble for healing. Edit: Anecdote and all, but every healer I've raided with at my skill level dislikes the one button dps rotation, but is feeling pressured enough to actually use heals that sometimes the issue is they can't do dps at all as they try to keep people alive through actually properly performed mechanics (and mistakes are just fatal a lot of the time). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Aug 27, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 08:02
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Other than bar space concerns, it would seem straightforward to give healers, like, two DPS buttons and maybe a third to spend some kind of accumulated resource. Keep their DoT. I've only really tanked with GNB, are the other tanks that much more complex than that?
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Aug 27, 2023 08:16
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Nessus posted:Other than bar space concerns, it would seem straightforward to give healers, like, two DPS buttons and maybe a third to spend some kind of accumulated resource. Keep their DoT. I've only really tanked with GNB, are the other tanks that much more complex than that? GNB has the most complex dps kit of any tank afaik. Or at least the most active decision making.
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Aug 27, 2023 08:21
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I feel like the struggle for healer DPS design is that they want to avoid players support-oriented playstyles getting 'combo-locked' for lack of a better term. You don't want a healer to be too busy not healing that they don't do their by-definition job. That's hardly impossible to design on a conceptual level; I'd probably point to Red Mage as being a good example of how to design a DPS kit that wouldn't be so stuck to its rotation that it couldn't take a break to throw out some green numbers. But I do think it'd run into a player psychology thing if you tried: even if you do design a meatier 'healer DPS' kit that can still happily break off mid-combo to heal without dropping said combo, you'll still probably see a significant amount of healers let people die so they can get their Maximum DPS. All of that is a big part of why I think AST is the best-designed healer in this game, because the cards give me enough to do that it doesn't just feel like 'one-button DPS rotation', without being so much that it distracts from actually healing. And also, y'know, it does this without just bieng 'more DPS buttons'; I want my support character to feel like a support character, and AST does. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Aug 27, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 08:50
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Lord_Magmar posted:GNB has the most complex dps kit of any tank afaik. Or at least the most active decision making. Eh, depends on your problem areas. GNB has to account for different burst cartridge counts once a minute but is otherwise very straightforward (although the highest APM overall). DRK is the spammiest during burst with very little flexibility, and PLD has the largest total button count and most niche abilities. WAR is certainly easiest, but after that it's pretty murky; personally I find GNB simpler than the other two. That said, I only really tank in roulettes, only done a couple of rare sub-in role shuffles as tank in savage. Re: healing rotations, I don't love the one-button rotations either but the role does have more of a base cognitive load than the rest. You have to monitor the party during most mechanics in case someone gets clipped, and all your oGCD use needs to be adapted individually to each fight. There's a limit to how much stuff can be added without it being a real barrier to entry. They're already the jobs with the highest DPS variance. I absolutely understand not liking the healer design and how they work in fights, but I doubt that adding DPS complexity alone will make them more popular. They did take baby steps in that direction with Sage which does have 3 additional GCD nukes. People haven't exactly flocked to it. The most popular healer is consistently WHM, which has the least DPS complexity, the least popular is AST, which has the most.
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Aug 27, 2023 09:12
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Cleretic posted:. I love that it is the healer they are planning on redesigning completely. Truly I've begun to understand you are a person of many-twisted soul, Cleretic. Perversely fascinating.
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Aug 27, 2023 09:43
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tbf the AST redesign seems to be because playing it on controller right now turns your hands into a bent and twisted mockery of their former selves e: its also a pain to play on keyboard lol. it's 4am and I'm remembering that over the past two years my static has driven two ASTs to take a break due in part to job-induced boneitis Vitamean fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Aug 27, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 09:49
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Bruceski posted:What have we done... The festival has been a success! 
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Aug 27, 2023 10:01
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I love the namazu so much. They should be in all FF quests from now on. Who gives a poo poo about moogles
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Aug 27, 2023 10:02
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lines posted:I love that it is the healer they are planning on redesigning completely. Truly I've begun to understand you are a person of many-twisted soul, Cleretic. Perversely fascinating. Which I am still mad about. I don't think anybody actually has problems with AST right now other than more ergonomic issues, it's one of the jobs that's got button overload and needs them to make some space before we get any more, but unlike DRG it actually could lose some buttons through pure QoL improvements. AST is just the least-played healer because something has to be, and it's ultimately the healer with the most niche appeal, both in terms of aesthetic and gameplay. A significant retool of AST won't actually make AST more popular, but does run the risk of shaking off all the people who already play and like AST. But this is hardly my first rodeo. I was a SCH main until Shadowbringers ripped out everything I found fun and interesting about SCH, and my response to that happening was to level every single job to maximum so that I can't possibly be left in the cold like that again. I legitimately got an amaro out of raw overcautious defensiveness.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:06
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Vitamean posted:tbf the AST redesign seems to be because playing it on controller right now turns your hands into a bent and twisted mockery of their former selves God I need to learn to play on controller. The issue is that I'm really used to KBM play and I use a MMO mouse and have spent upwards of 20 hours tinkering with my UI. It's such a pain to even organise hotbars on controller! And finding an intuitive setup seems tough, I don't know how people do it.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:07
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someone'll probably link the 50 page guide going into the finer details of controller setup but my honest to god suggestion is to just spin up a new character and try starting the game from scratch with it. part of what's overwhelming about switching midway through is you have to get used to where you put all your buttons and stuff. but if you can ground yourself with smaller kits (or, alternatively, do some step up dungeon runs that gradually increase in level while adding more to your hotbars, preferably with Duty Support) you can ease into it better. as you add more buttons you can start figuring out how to map your rotation to buttons, and the settings menu lets you tweak a lot of things like how the trigger buttons fold out the wide cross hotbars and stuff.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:13
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lines posted:God I need to learn to play on controller. The issue is that I'm really used to KBM play and I use a MMO mouse and have spent upwards of 20 hours tinkering with my UI. It's such a pain to even organise hotbars on controller! And finding an intuitive setup seems tough, I don't know how people do it. You're not limited to just a controller. It's actually controller+kbm and you can still click and drag and type and everything else
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Aug 27, 2023 10:21
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The new minigame that came with the Rising is pretty fun. I want to see someone get No Actions and No Damage together. The letters and everything else were also cute. Some warm fuzzy moments.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:31
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Antivehicular posted:The first boss of Prae is a robot with a weird little thong underwear situation for unclear reasons, probably "the Garleans are weirdos." It's not all that weird but it's hard to unsee It's to conceal his massive robot hog.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:55
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Yeah, I liked this Rising. I really want some sort of NG+ mode for seasonal events. It would be a blast just gradually replaying through lots of old events for their respective holidays each year. The only rub would be any quests involving FATEs, like the rice pounding events for Heavensturn or the recent Hatching-Tide quest with Tonberries scaring enemies. It's a shame because we now have 10 years of events many people will never get to properly see outside of maybe Youtube videos or Garlond Tools scripts, if they're even knowledgeable enough to search.
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Aug 27, 2023 11:24
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Got three 10k mini cactpots in a row for the first time. I think I might need to go buy a real lottery ticket now.
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Aug 27, 2023 11:32
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The Grimace posted:Yeah, I liked this Rising. I will always remember hordes of people chasing a giant just-faster-than-sprint rolling archon egg through gridania
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Aug 27, 2023 11:54
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Mainwaring posted:Personally I think anyone typing anything beyond "hi" "gg" and "tyfp" in party chat during a dungeon deserves to be reported If you say meowdy your character is deleted
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Aug 27, 2023 13:54
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Dragongem posted:If you say meowdy your character is deleted
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Aug 27, 2023 14:30
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Healing isn't as bad it would seem in the current tier as compared to the last tier, but there are still a lot of heal checks and healing that needs to be done. My static actively works to maximize mitigations and tank invuln use to limit how much our healers have to heal. We use tank LB on harrowing hell, for example, to make their lives easier. In EW I've tanked the first tier and the third tier. First one I did mostly on WAR with occasional old PLD. This tier I'm GNB. WAR is definitely the least complicated tank as far as rotation goes. WAR is just really great all around. Gunbreaker is busy. It's one of the highest APM jobs period. Dark Knight is the next highest tank and is middle of the pack APM wise. It's also in the worst place tank wise as it is probably the most challenging tank to play because it lacks the self healing and mitigation the other tanks have. TBN, yes, is probably one of the best tank cooldowns, but that's basically all dark knight has. Gunbreaker is busy but not necessarily complicated. You've got an extra powder gauge once a minute that you can figure a good place to use in each fight, but as long as you don't beef up your standard rotation, it's pretty straightforward. It's when your rotation gets out of whack that things get a little screwy, but that's the same for most jobs. I played dragoon last tier, and it and gunbreaker feel very similar. Being able to complete difficult content on non-standard roles is not a bug, also, imo, when the incorrect party doesn't really confer an advantage. The fact that the four tank four dps party is barely able to beat enrage this tier demonstrates how bad the dps really is for that non-standard comp. On the other hand, I also don't consider us doing 5dps 1 heal 2 tank for P1S a big deal. That's more a testament to how much of a beAST mavis is. If you're cheesing content with a non-standard comp then that is an issue. That isn't what was happening with the noheals group. I'll note that I don't think 1 tank 3 dps dungeons is bad, either, because it's fun.
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Aug 27, 2023 15:01
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Xerophyte posted:I absolutely understand not liking the healer design and how they work in fights, but I doubt that adding DPS complexity alone will make them more popular. They did take baby steps in that direction with Sage which does have 3 additional GCD nukes. People haven't exactly flocked to it. The most popular healer is consistently WHM, which has the least DPS complexity, the least popular is AST, which has the most. Was about to mention SGE. speaking from a noob/lower tier perspective, I really enjoy it button-wise but agree that it'd be nice to, idk, bump toxikon a little bit or something so it's not strictly "i want to nuke but i have to move". The orbital lasers are just too cool.
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Aug 27, 2023 19:53
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Did some P1N farm for Moogle tomes and got some parties that were able to kill before the Shining Cells cast. And also got some parties where at least one DPS clearly did not understand their rotation and also killed well after the cast. Bit annoying that this is the tier I chose to play healer so my tanks/DPS are a bit starved for gear so I can't join the 655+ parties quite yet.
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Aug 27, 2023 20:51
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Jonny 290 posted:Was about to mention SGE. speaking from a noob/lower tier perspective, I really enjoy it button-wise but agree that it'd be nice to, idk, bump toxikon a little bit or something so it's not strictly "i want to nuke but i have to move". The orbital lasers are just too cool. I think giving it a DNC Feathers-esque proc element and slightly higher damage would be a nice bit of mechanical optimization. You'd probably have to bump down the maximum number of stacks you can actually keep stocked, but having a bit more to pay attention to during my rotation would be nice.
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