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75% of the time cliffs are only there to limit your blueprint size and let you save some wall plops around early turrets and you won't notice till you've blueprinted whole wings/blocks. The other 25% of the time there is somehow a 6 screen long uninterrupted cliff that is easy enough to get past with power lines and underground belts and exists only to infuriate you that you need to drive 6 screens over because you forgot to do something the last time you were on the far side.
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Aug 25, 2023 21:54
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RVWinkle posted:That's hilarious that they got the space exploration dev involved. I can't imagine a scenario where he doesn't double down on some bullshit mechanic. They hired him years ago, explicitly for a concept artist position. He's not in charge, he can't demand anything, and the rest of WUBE has proven to be good at making this game approachable.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:41
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Yeah there’s zero chance the user hostile stuff from spacex gets into the expansion.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:45
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Cliffs are a good addition. They help with early-game defense and they force you to actually think about where to put stuff instead of just picking a direction and building your entire factory as a horizontal line. I'd like more stuff like cliffs in the game, biters that make terrain unusable until you unlock flamethrowers, worms that bust up the ground so you need to build concrete foundations etc.
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Aug 26, 2023 00:49
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After playing SpaceX for as long as I have the hostile user stuff is overblown. I still think it would be better if you could turn it off, but its so minor as to not really matter.
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Aug 26, 2023 00:54
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CMEs are a bit much but I kind of like the asteroids and defense guns. Bot attrition is meaningless to anyone with an assembler each on bots, unless you’re running remote logistics grids without automated resupply. I would be ok with the coolant/supercoolant system staying in roughly the way it is, but I bet there’s a way to do something similar without precluding productivity modules.
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Aug 26, 2023 01:03
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Being able to change the game to accommodate that sort of thing is not doable in a mod but would be totally doable in an expansion pack. I wonder if we'll see something like that pop up on one of the later worlds.
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Aug 26, 2023 01:13
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On the opposite end of the game from Space Exploration/Expansion.... IR3 has sent me back to spaghetti-ville, with pipes!
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Aug 26, 2023 01:21
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I wish asteroid defense in SE could be a guaranteed thing, like if you have enough guns it’s always shot down. But instead you have to overbuild so it becomes like a 99.9 chance and you will still be hit because the RNG hates you. Contrast that with CMEs which are deterministic and 100% preventable
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Aug 26, 2023 05:07
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eh, the damage from a couple of rocks making it through the net can be entirely handled by bot dispatch starting very early on, I can run several clusters of basic defense guns out of boxes for dozens of hours CMEs aren't a huge deal, but I had exactly one base get nailed by one at a very early stage and I think I have a grudge still.
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Aug 26, 2023 06:21
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The first CME is an interesting challenge to block but later CMEs are pretty boring once you have space infrastructure. It's just a tax of grabbing a pile of scaffolding & solar panels, flying out to the affected planets orbit in your starter spaceship and building a small platform for the umbrella. Doing that keeps that planet CME-proof for the rest of the game.
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Aug 26, 2023 06:30
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I think the space x guy did a great job explaining the difference. He obviously has talent, being able to design 2 similar but different expansions based on his own idea of what a challenge is to a pro player and taking direction from the creators for a more accessible experience for casual players. Also, cliffs suck and are the worst thing added to the game
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Aug 26, 2023 12:56
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ymgve posted:It's funny that they have a whole section with "no this is not a space exploration ripoff". They knew it was coming. 
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Aug 26, 2023 13:21
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Collateral Damage posted:They originally showed a WIP of the space platform stuff in 2015 and Space Exploration came out in 2019 so I don't think Earandel can claim they ripped him off. Was thinking more about the players, Earandel apparently works there now so he can't complain
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Aug 26, 2023 13:53
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https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blog/fff-373-platform-HR.mp4 Uh oh.
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Aug 26, 2023 14:23
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I just turn them off and will likely do it again, especially if they move explosives even further away
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Aug 26, 2023 14:40
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Now that's a flying spaghetti monster
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Aug 26, 2023 14:53
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I've cleared my Angel Bob's hangover and started Nullius instead and this is far more what I'm looking for coming from Captain of Industry. Just a bunch of deliberate scaling knots to untie instead of barfing 16 steps duplicated 10 wide just because. We'll see if I eat my words once I'm in deep.
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Aug 26, 2023 16:03
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I'm not sure how far I even played space exploration and if these setting make it much easier, but they should at least reduce some bullshit.
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Aug 26, 2023 19:18
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uPen posted:Cliffs are a good addition. They help with early-game defense and they force you to actually think about where to put stuff instead of just picking a direction and building your entire factory as a horizontal line. I see cliffs in the same way I see not-a-hellworld-challenge biters - an interesting early game thing that quickly turns into a chore. It's fun, you solve the problem, and then don't want to solve it again and again forever.
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Aug 26, 2023 20:20
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GetDunked posted:I just turn them off and will likely do it again, especially if they move explosives even further away About 15 minutes after the patch there will probably be a mod adding new "terraforming explosives" at the usual spot in the tech tree anyway.
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Aug 26, 2023 20:39
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Mailer posted:I see cliffs in the same way I see not-a-hellworld-challenge biters - an interesting early game thing that quickly turns into a chore. It's fun, you solve the problem, and then don't want to solve it again and again forever. This is pretty much the way I see it also. If I want to do a biter challenge then I'll do a game specifically for that, and maybe leave cliffs on because they are useful for sure sometimes in defenses, but for a normal game I'm more interested in the design and building stuff and just turn biters and cliffs off because I just find them annoying.
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Aug 27, 2023 00:23
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I struggle with turning biters off because military is such a large portion of the tech tree and is a big resource draw so it feels like turning it off kinda unbalances the game in a way but also I dont like dealing with them, they go from a frustrating challenge to a chore with little in between. I often leave them in but turn off expansion so I can proactively clean them out before pollution reaches them in early-mid game and then its not endless biters in late game where getting any new resources requires 100 nukes.
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Aug 27, 2023 03:48
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:I struggle with turning biters off because military is such a large portion of the tech tree and is a big resource draw so it feels like turning it off kinda unbalances the game in a way but also I dont like dealing with them, they go from a frustrating challenge to a chore with little in between. I often leave them in but turn off expansion so I can proactively clean them out before pollution reaches them in early-mid game and then its not endless biters in late game where getting any new resources requires 100 nukes. This is the default setting for me too. It's kinda sorta an interesting logistical challenge to keep a perimeter stocked with ammo? But the actual nest clearing just seems like an enormous PITA, even when tanks and the like kind of just make it trivial. I don't much like the stuff where it's the same mindless task or sort of task, but you just have to do it repeatedly. Setting up new mining outposts is another good example, I'd really rather feel like I'm accomplishing "scaling up" with another mining post rather than "making up for the one that ran out". Maybe I just need better blueprints.
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Aug 27, 2023 04:12
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I'm playing after a looooong break and forgot that I usually set richness pretty high so ore patches don't run out too fast and I don't feel like all im doing is setting up new ones. Haven't gotten too deep into the newest save but yeah big blueprints that stamp a basic mining array over the entire patch, route it to a blueprinted cargo loading station, link it into the train system and that makes it pretty fast all in all but still a pain to go run out and do, especially if it involves clearing a ton of biters in the process.
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Aug 27, 2023 04:46
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clearing biters is way more fun when you're watching someone else do it at 10x speed on an edited youtube video
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Aug 27, 2023 04:48
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I see you too are a connoisseur of DoshDoshington https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEvmcIs-864
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Aug 27, 2023 04:49
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:I'm playing after a looooong break and forgot that I usually set richness pretty high so ore patches don't run out too fast and I don't feel like all im doing is setting up new ones. Haven't gotten too deep into the newest save but yeah big blueprints that stamp a basic mining array over the entire patch, route it to a blueprinted cargo loading station, link it into the train system and that makes it pretty fast all in all but still a pain to go run out and do, especially if it involves clearing a ton of biters in the process. The further you get from spawn the richer they get, just pick a direction and expand, and eventually you'll hit ore patches so large they'll last. Conversely once you have ore patches in the 100M's and a need to consume them I can't recommend Texuga TA Miners enough. Coupled with warehousing and a hysteresis combinator to shut them off when the warehouse is full.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:03
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I made it to level 2 of the space sciences before I tapped out of my SE/K2 run. Started spending all my time refactoring and not progressing at all.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:12
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I'm finding this IR3 run to be a refreshing change. I can't use any of my blueprints and I have to figure out fresh how to make everything and it's a spaghetti wonderland like I haven't had in years. I definitely miss Squeak Through with the density of pipes providing steam to the builds, some areas of my base are a long run around now because of how I built them without spaces for undergrounds to let me cut through. Figuring out a decent way to set up the huge burner miners (or steam in a couple patches) and of course not having the slightest clue when my steam generation is no longer gonna be enough because there is no way (as far as I can tell) to see what my steam consumption is without manually adding up every machine and.. umm.. nope. The little copper steam powered construction bots you can make super early are a godsend, and the little mono-wheel vehicle was great when I went out searching for rubber trees... not so great when I ran out of steam far far from base, but luckily I had enough charged modules in my roboports to strip them to make it back home, where I immediately made a bunch more steam tanks so I could have a full spare stack of charged ones in the monowheel. The forestry thing didn't make any sense to me until I did a bit of reading and installed informatron to read the included blurb. I couldn't figure out where I was supposed to get rubber trees because I sure didn't have any I could find. Eventually figured out how to spot them on the map, and I paid in distance and time for selecting up a very low-water presence map.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:26
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GetDunked posted:It's kinda sorta an interesting logistical challenge to keep a perimeter stocked with ammo? Solving biters, particularly before you have infinite power and lasers everywhere, is an interesting thing. It's fun once and then you know how to do it and every game after that biters are just a time tax. Like the early pre-automation game I just turn it off.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:28
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Pictures! The spaghetti stuff. Note that the ore processing has been re-done and cleaned up at least 3x now, it was not nearly so neat looking originally.  The map. That patch way up top, yeah, that is the closest iron ore patch to the starting area.  Good times. The rubber trees were down and left about 3x farther away at least than that iron patch.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:37
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Even with infinite power, in the endgame bullets and flamethrowers scale better than lasers, both of which come with some interesting supply issues. Sure, you could just overbuild lasers, but imo it's more fun and rewarding to put together a mixed defense. Kinda wish there was a bit better variety in biter resistances, and commensurately similar types of damage available to the player in automated defenses.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:45
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Have you tried Rampant (and Rampant Arsenal)? They do exactly that. Pro tip: Make sure you have a way to kill Corrosive Biters before they reach your defenses. 
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Aug 27, 2023 14:20
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So with the official announcement of Space Exploration Light as an official DLC, are we upgrading the thread to "Factorio: The Solar System doesn't stand a chance"?
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Aug 27, 2023 20:30
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Factorio: The United Factory of Planets
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Aug 27, 2023 20:32
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Factorio: Kessler Syndrome Simulator
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Aug 27, 2023 20:54
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Where no pollution has gone before
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Aug 27, 2023 21:07
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I think Nilaus makes some good points about the DLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW9g0GWnFWQ
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Aug 27, 2023 21:21
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Factorio: The one place that hasn't been corrupted by Capitalism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Sq1Nr58hM I will forever love how even in the best take he couldn't keep a straight face
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Aug 27, 2023 22:29
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