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I was more imagining a 100 Jared Harris vs Lee Pace a la Agent Smith style
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Aug 28, 2023 17:40
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Rollos posted:I was more imagining a 100 Jared Harris vs Lee Pace a la Agent Smith style 100 Cleons strutting around naked and confident vs 100 Hari Seldon's all yelling at Gaal that she isn't doing things properly
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Aug 28, 2023 17:45
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CubanMissile posted:I was really enjoying this season until they landed on psychic cult planet. Loved Cleon’s reaction to the atomic ashtray though. Preposterous! Ye, that was fun Rollos posted:I was more imagining a 100 Jared Harris vs Lee Pace a la Agent Smith style But his only attack is “debate me, bro”
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Aug 28, 2023 17:46
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the world of foundation is so barbaric and brutal. magical technology is so mundane that the vast majority of the planets' populations do barbaric poo poo, farm things the old fashioned way and stand in lines front of a guy on a throne as he kills people for minor infractions. they could have robots farming things in rice paddies or lab grow all the food they need, but instead they force their enemies to farm it for them as punishment.
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Aug 29, 2023 03:39
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Not that I know much of Asimov's writing very well, let alone the Foundation series, but I assumed this being a post-AI future means people don't let robots do work because it'd just lead to the robots gaining sentience and sabotaging everything to kill all the humans.
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Aug 29, 2023 04:06
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DaveKap posted:Not that I know much of Asimov's writing very well, let alone the Foundation series, but I assumed this being a post-AI future means people don't let robots do work because it'd just lead to the robots gaining sentience and sabotaging everything to kill all the humans. Asimov took a sort of opposite approach in that robots were designed ground-up to be incapable of harming humans (outside of weird but narratively important edge cases.) Much of this was because his early robot stories were mostly short mystery logic puzzles based on the Three Laws of Robotics as a central premise, so "what if a robot just turned on humans" wasn't a valid answer. However, in the wider setting the human societies that made heavy use of robot labor and life extension/genetic engineering technologies ended up rapidly stagnating and turning inward with robots doing the work and making the deicisions, so the galaxy was settled by the society that rejected all that. Who eventually stagnated too but only thousands of years after they filled the entire galaxy. So it was more that robots killed human civilizations with kindness rather than killing humans with lasers.
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Aug 29, 2023 04:40
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Killer robot posted:Asimov took a sort of opposite approach in that robots were designed ground-up to be incapable of harming humans (outside of weird but narratively important edge cases.) Much of this was because his early robot stories were mostly short mystery logic puzzles based on the Three Laws of Robotics as a central premise, so "what if a robot just turned on humans" wasn't a valid answer. However, in the wider setting the human societies that made heavy use of robot labor and life extension/genetic engineering technologies ended up rapidly stagnating and turning inward with robots doing the work and making the deicisions, so the galaxy was settled by the society that rejected all that. Who eventually stagnated too but only thousands of years after they filled the entire galaxy. So it was more that robots killed human civilizations with kindness rather than killing humans with lasers. I don't believe you, Killer robot.
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Aug 29, 2023 05:12
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Open Source Idiom posted:I don't believe you, Killer robot. Fair, ain't no law against a robot lying.
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Aug 29, 2023 05:47
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Everyone you love is dead. Eat the ice cream.
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Aug 29, 2023 06:17
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We're so stupid we can either make robotic super nannies or farm potatoes with my hands like a caveman circa 12,346BCE.
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Aug 29, 2023 12:25
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Have you seen the recent discourse around ai
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Aug 29, 2023 12:39
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Killer robot posted:Asimov took a sort of opposite approach in that robots were designed ground-up to be incapable of harming humans (outside of weird but narratively important edge cases.) Much of this was because his early robot stories were mostly short mystery logic puzzles based on the Three Laws of Robotics as a central premise, so "what if a robot just turned on humans" wasn't a valid answer. However, in the wider setting the human societies that made heavy use of robot labor and life extension/genetic engineering technologies ended up rapidly stagnating and turning inward with robots doing the work and making the deicisions, so the galaxy was settled by the society that rejected all that. Who eventually stagnated too but only thousands of years after they filled the entire galaxy. So it was more that robots killed human civilizations with kindness rather than killing humans with lasers. Robots were absolutely banned on Earth in Asimov's novels. R. Daneel had to get special permission, stay with Elijah Bailey at all times and was only allowed because he looked passably human. I can't recall the exact reasons it started that way (probably "they're taking our jobs"), but in the end they were permanently linked with the Spacer oppression of Earth because they were extensively used on their planets.
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Aug 29, 2023 13:13
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in the future we have spaceships and poo poo, but designing a robotic arm that does a repetitive task without also having hopes and dreams is too hard.
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Aug 29, 2023 13:52
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The Foundation (TV) universe is obviously not as strict about automation and computers as Dune. I think only those specific robots meant to look and act like humans might be banned. More of a Blade Runner situation than AI jihad. For example, those giant killer mining machines a few episodes back were autonomous/AI controlled, but according to the show’s timeline are from after the robot wars.
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Aug 29, 2023 14:21
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:Robots were absolutely banned on Earth in Asimov's novels. R. Daneel had to get special permission, stay with Elijah Bailey at all times and was only allowed because he looked passably human. I can't recall the exact reasons it started that way (probably "they're taking our jobs"), but in the end they were permanently linked with the Spacer oppression of Earth because they were extensively used on their planets. This isn't exactly true. In Caves of Steel, the first Elijah Baley mystery novel, robots are heavily regulated on Earth, but still used. Book spoilers that will not be relevant to this show with 99.9% certainty As soon as Daneel and Elijah get out of Spacetown, Daneel diffuses a riot outside a shoe store (how quaint) that is instigated by the shoe shop having got robot workers. The riot is caused by TOOK ARE JERBS, to be fair. And the police station where Elijah works recently got a robot secretary, and it's a plot point that this robot replaced a young man working at the station previously, which in turn causes Elijah to be initially worried about Daneel-like robots replacing himself eventually. The full-on robot ban happens later, on the "Settler" worlds, the second wave of colonization from Earth. The reasons for this are a-plenty, but basically in the Naked Sun Elijah himself notes that the most advanced Spacer world is headed towards ruin because of their robot society, and this narrative gets expanded in the later books.
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Aug 29, 2023 17:01
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Is Asimov's novel The Gods Themselves in the Foundation universe? That's the only novel of his I remember reading and I absolutely loved it.
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Aug 29, 2023 18:17
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External Organs posted:Is Asimov's novel The Gods Themselves in the Foundation universe? That's the only novel of his I remember reading and I absolutely loved it. No. According to some interviews, it was Asimov's own favourite!
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Aug 29, 2023 18:39
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Pretty darn tootin little read in case anyone wants some kind of weird sci Fi
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Aug 29, 2023 18:41
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I just want to point out how ridiculous an idea that is, some humans impose some law (a fatwa), and it can get the whole humanity to follow it for millennias.
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Aug 29, 2023 18:49
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Dune was actually parodying/rebutting psychohistory with its perfect foresight & genetic memory stuff
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Aug 29, 2023 21:04
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It's because positronic brains are so hard to design, only asimovian super genius can invent it. After the pogroms eons ago no one can make them again. And why would they? Everyone has been taught from birth robots are dangerous.
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Aug 29, 2023 22:46
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Rectal Death Adept posted:We are thinking about this harder than the writers but I thought that Day seemed to realize he was destined to be forgotten as he was almost swapped out for a replacement unceremoniously and no one would have ever known. A disposable clone in a series of disposable clones. Using the marriage to become a new Cleon The First Of Something seemed like a valid motivation over just backstabbing an outspoken rival for territory. Owling Howl posted:Yeah I don't think this is a show that kills off main characters. Salvor will be saved at the last moment and Seldon is a robot. Alternatively their deaths are the catalyst that makes Gaal achieve her final form, she purges the cult and declares herself queen of the ashes.  (I can't remember which one is Gaal and which Salvor because I basically stop paying attention whenever the show is following them because their subplot is terrible and I'm just waiting to for the show to get back to literally anyone else)
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Aug 31, 2023 15:20
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Gaal is the one who can swim.
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Aug 31, 2023 17:13
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Yes it’s very hard to tell apart the two completely different looking black characters with completely different personalities and motives
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Aug 31, 2023 17:18
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All that plus they have a huge height difference
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Aug 31, 2023 19:17
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:Yes it’s very hard to tell apart the two completely different looking black characters with completely different personalities and motives ^ My thoughts on Gaal and Salvor is that up until the last couple episodes I liked Gaal more and Salvor was kind of annoying and that completely flipped when they got to the planet of weirdos
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Aug 31, 2023 19:20
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Despite being mother and daughter Salvor and Gaal are as alike as Jenny and Lieutenant Dan
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Aug 31, 2023 20:44
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Salvor is a frontier sheriff who had never been off Terminus before going on her adventure! Gaal is a psychic mathematician from a water planet ruled by an anti-technology cult!
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Aug 31, 2023 20:46
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They are both different but quite dull to watch.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:54
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This all sounds so dumb
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Aug 31, 2023 22:56
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I love Salvor and her plot, keeping fingers crossed that Hugo was a big enough simp to cryosleep too
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Aug 31, 2023 23:37
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Finally this show is getting interesting.
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Sep 1, 2023 03:35
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That was a solid episode. Beki totally could have done the deed though.
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Sep 1, 2023 06:05
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I was so happy when Rue says "the time for ambiguity has passed" followed by 10 minutes of straight talking and exposition. I think she's becoming my favourite character this season, because she doesn't suffer from that TV character syndrome where they never ask or say the one extremely obvious thing that would immediately resolve all their problems. Her delivery of "you've LITERALLY just said that (wtf)" was delightful.
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Sep 1, 2023 12:58
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Okay, here's my speculation for who/what The Mule is: At some point this season Tellem, partially defeated by Gaal/Salvor, will try to transfer her consciousness to the boy Josiah. However Josiah's personality will be the one that survives, while keeping all of Tellem's powers (possibly through intervention by Gaal or Salvor). Traumatized by all this, and wanting to prevent anyone like Tellem from ever existing again, he goes on a quest to wipe out all mentalics in the entire galaxy, which involves conquering it, and becoming "The Mule."
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Sep 1, 2023 14:57
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Snowmanatee posted:Okay, here's my speculation for who/what The Mule is: At some point this season Tellem, partially defeated by Gaal/Salvor, will try to transfer her consciousness to the boy Josiah. However Josiah's personality will be the one that survives, while keeping all of Tellem's powers (possibly through intervention by Gaal or Salvor). Traumatized by all this, and wanting to prevent anyone like Tellem from ever existing again, he goes on a quest to wipe out all mentalics in the entire galaxy, which involves conquering it, and becoming "The Mule." Ya and it would be a typical example of (modern) SciFi writing in TV. It makes your setting look small because everything has to connect back to a single point in your story for some cheap mystery/"twists", not to mention that it once again goes against the whole theme of Foundation. A book written about the large scale effects of society/history. But then you create a TV show that already feels rather "empty" (and not like an empire consisting of trillions and trillions and citizens including countless worlds) and where everything in the story leads back to a few hand selected people throughout history. The rest of the universe might not even exist so little do they seem to matter.
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Sep 1, 2023 20:22
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LinkesAuge posted:Ya and it would be a typical example of (modern) SciFi writing in TV. It makes your setting look small because everything has to connect back to a single point in your story for some cheap mystery/"twists", not to mention that it once again goes against the whole theme of Foundation. A book written about the large scale effects of society/history. But then you create a TV show that already feels rather "empty" (and not like an empire consisting of trillions and trillions and citizens including countless worlds) and where everything in the story leads back to a few hand selected people throughout history. The rest of the universe might not even exist so little do they seem to matter. Ah, the Star Trek method where the whole universe revolves around the 30 people crossing each others’ paths non stop.
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Sep 1, 2023 20:33
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And every planet in Stargate looks like Vancouver
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Sep 1, 2023 21:38
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The gravel pit outside of Vancouver, to be exact
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Sep 1, 2023 21:57
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:They're clones and their name is Cleon which is just the word clone very slightly rearranged There were at least two emperors named Cleon in the books. They weren't clones, though.
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Sep 1, 2023 23:41
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