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Doctor Malaver
May 23, 2007

Ce qui s'est passé t'a rendu plus fort

Antigravitas posted:

I have never felt more uncomfortable online

Your online experience has been pretty tame.

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sad question
May 30, 2020

armpit_enjoyer posted:

Donald Tusk, August 2022: "Nobody with anti-abortion views will be an opposition candidate next year"

Donald Tusk, August 2023: "We are excited to announce Roman Giertych will be one of our candidates in Świętokrzyskie"

Look at my opposition, dogg. We are never getting rid of PiS

(For context: Roman Giertych used to be the leader of a far-right party called "The League of Polish Families" and he revived the pre-war antisemitic/fascist organisation, the All-Polish Youth. He used to be the minister of education in the first PiS government, between 2005 and 2007, and his tenure is remembered primarily for the anti-LGBTQ witch hunt he conducted in the school system)

Yeah but Giertych owns PiS politicians on twitter, so PO can have a little fascist, as a treat

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

Looks like they're trying to do something with the Giertych controversy. His daughter is being interviewed and she's guarantees that her mom and her sisters will "keep an eye on him" so we don't have to worry our pretty little heads about women's' rights.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.

Mokotow posted:

Looks like they're trying to do something with the Giertych controversy. His daughter is being interviewed and she's guarantees that her mom and her sisters will "keep an eye on him" so we don't have to worry our pretty little heads about women's' rights.

Oh cool



hey who dropped this

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.

Comte de Saint-Germain posted:

Different, but related phenomena:

I'm part of a facebook group for english speaking expats living in Warsaw. At one point we had to purge the member list and restart the group, because it was invaded by english speaking US citizens of Polish descent, living *in the US*, who joined the group to post anti-black, anti-semetic, and anti-everybody-who-doesn't-vote-PiS memes, many of which were in Polish. So it seems, at least from this experience, that there's some sort of community of US based ethnic poles who eat a steady diet of TVP (and radio maria or whatever else) in addition to whatever rascist american poo poo they consume.

Yeah. Polonia in the US is one of the worst about it, since there's a lot of really old emigration, like pre-world wars, leaving a lot of people that are really detached from anything but broad fantasies about the country. There's a certain kind of brainrot that sometimes hits at 3+ generation of immigrants where you're long past concerns of fitting in the new place, they're past anyone in the family trying to teach them the language (and by extension, any cultural contact being long dormant) but they've got this heritage that can become *their thing*. Think of the Plastic Paddies, but with extra layers of solipsist detachment due to being outside of the anglosphere.

In a true horseshoe theory fashion, there's two ways this can develop. The first is that sort of right wingish turn, because that kind of person living with a vague fantasy of a place on another hemisphere, is naturally more vulnerable to the conservative golden age/exceptionalist rhethoric, leading to Trad Values (leaning on the cultural baggage that makes the place feel unique and not just one more country). In case of Poles in the US it sure doesn't help that a lot of them live in midwest and that those OG old emigrants were fleeing either Partitions or communist rule, so the whole thing was extra primed for passing down nationalist sentiments. The second way is using one's ancestry to crowbar one's way to the cool progressive crowd as a self-proclaimed cultural expert, steadily falling down a rabbit hole of increasingly mad twitter manifestos over things the home country doesn't actually care about all that much.

Of course this isn't meant to generalize all immigrant communities or something, it's just a specific flavor of terribleness.

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

goblin week posted:

Oh cool



hey who dropped this

No you see this was before COVID.

Also surprised to see Maciej Giertych, his dad, is still around.


Mildly fascinated with what he expected to happen

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Mokotow posted:

No you see this was before COVID.

Also surprised to see Maciej Giertych, his dad, is still around.

Mildly fascinated with what he expected to happen

The same thing Americans always expect when they go abroad

That the local savages will prostrate themselves before the civilized man who is bringing gifts of wisdom and dollar

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
When Stefan Molyneux went to Poland he felt he had finally found his people at the Independence March. Robert would have felt right at home there as well.

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.

Mokotow posted:

Mildly fascinated with what he expected to happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-EOwiBlno0

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
[

steinrokkan posted:

The same thing Americans always expect when they go abroad

That the local savages will prostrate themselves before the civilized man who is bringing gifts of wisdom and dollar

It's absolutely possible for diaspora members to be greeted warmly in their ancestors' homeland. They just need to be elected the President or become Olympic champions or Hollywood superstars or something substantially more impressive than being an American.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Mokotow posted:

Mildly fascinated with what he expected to happen
There were a few more screenshots where people were asking him the same thing. His answer was basically:

steinrokkan posted:

That the local savages will prostrate themselves before the civilized man who is bringing gifts of wisdom and dollar
He also mentioned that he was surprised that Poland was "so advanced".

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

Honestly surprised, I remember this poo poo from the early 90s but assumed naively we’re passed that, yet, 30 years on, here we are

FishBulbia
Dec 22, 2021

friend of putin and EU Alyiev's Azerbaijan is sending some interesting convoys to the border of Armenia

https://twitter.com/301arm/status/1698738502886703367?s=20

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012

Lichtenstein posted:

Polonia in the US is one of the worst about it, since there's a lot of really old emigration, like pre-world wars, leaving a lot of people that are really detached from anything but broad fantasies about the country...

This is kind of what happened to in part of my family who are descendants of Poles. The part of Detroit they settled in was and is heavily populated by Polish immigrants, with all the insularity that brings in any immigrant community. It's been tempered by the fact that it's a large and diverse city, only becoming more so as time goes on. As the family got bigger, many moved out of Detroit or worked in other places, bringing back new experiences and attitudes at the same time their Polish identity changed into a more American identity. As you say, that coincided with the last fluent Polish speakers either dying or not passing down the language while alive.

Even as the family became more "Americanized", old habits and ways of thought persisted. Until very recently, they all leaned very "right" (in the American context), holding an almost abandoned religion up as a sort of identifier and shield, considering their own experience as different for it's very "Polishness", as they define it.

Years of being beat up by the politicians they supported here in the USA, and seeing their newer neighbors being mistreated and sometimes villified, have changed even the older generation's (mid 50's to 70+ years old) attitude towards their "Polishness" and what it means to them to be "Polish-American".

While some of the family now tout that they lived among and accepted "others" as friends and neighbors far before it was more the norm in the US (and they aren't lying), there's always that "other". Which is kind of odd considering half of them don't even remember what their full family name was before it got shortened to fit American mores of the time. Even odder that half of the family is recognized by the US government as Native American!

What persists is a feeling of solidarity with family, a sense that "we", whoever that happens to be, need to be helped and taken care of (and well fed) at any opportunity. I don't think that's specifically Polish, but that part of family certainly thinks so.

That went on longer that I thought it would. You are right in every bit of that post, and it's not limited to the Polish. The Czechs in Iowa were similar, the Germans down here are the same, and I'm sure there are plenty more examples.

Olesh
Aug 4, 2008

Why did the circus close?

A long, chilling list of animal rights violations.
Ah, Hamtramck.

All the pierogi places are either shut down or near to doing so because all of the babchas who make them are passing away and nobody's stepping up to replace them.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.
why did so many poles emigrate to the great lakes area anyway?? it feels like everyone has a relative in Chicago or Detroit

armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts
The Pole yearns for a pojezierze

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

goblin week posted:

why did so many poles emigrate to the great lakes area anyway?? it feels like everyone has a relative in Chicago or Detroit

In the late 19th century Polish immigrants to the US were considered good industrial workers by corporations and Chicago and Detroit were the largest industrial cities at the time.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
Belarusians will no longer be able to renew their passports abroad.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/09/05/belarusian-diplomatic-missions-to-stop-issuing-passports-to-citizens-living-abroad

You're supposed to change your passport every ten years starting from 14, so a lot of people around the ages of 24/34, who constitute the majority of recent immigrants, soon will either have to travel to Belarus or try to get a special EU permit that would allow them to stay and travel within EU. There are news stories almost daily lately about people visiting Belarus only to be detained at the border for extremism (like being subscribed to the wrong telegram channel or having donated to a mutual help fund three years ago), so there's a low but non-zero risk there.

Additionally, the new law makes it impossible to perform property transactions without being in Belarus in person. Previously you could from abroad grant your relative or friend the legal ability to do this in your name, but now you'll have to travel to Belarus if, for example, you decide you want to sell your flat and stay in Poland for the foreseeable future. If you don't want to go, you'll have to continue to pay property tax and increased tariff on utilities, which is usually not a lot of money for an average computer toucher, but may not be insignificant for everyone else. Plus, in Belarus, you can be tried and convicted in absentia, so your property can be seized by the state. This seems to be mostly happening to the more public opposition figures like Tsikhanouskaya or Latushka, but occasionally some random people who had outstanding fines for 'blocking roads' before they left the country also had their flats arrested and auctioned.

Paladinus fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Sep 5, 2023

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

goblin week posted:

why did so many poles emigrate to the great lakes area anyway?? it feels like everyone has a relative in Chicago or Detroit

There was a lot of industry there, and as long as you could count to 10 and lift heavy things, there were no shortage of jobs. Way back when, It wasn't uncommon for people to go to the US to work for a few years to saving money before going back home, so, naturally, they gravitated to places with existing communities that provided a support network and where they could live without needing English (they were there temporarily, so why bother learning).

Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee and everywhere in between are still rife with ethnic churches, national halls, cultural centers, stores, butchers and so on for various groups.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

The_Franz posted:

There was a lot of industry there, and as long as you could count to 10 and lift heavy things, there were no shortage of jobs. Way back when, It wasn't uncommon for people to go to the US to work for a few years to saving money before going back home, so, naturally, they gravitated to places with existing communities that provided a support network and where they could live without needing English (they were there temporarily, so why bother learning).

Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee and everywhere in between are still rife with ethnic churches, national halls, cultural centers, stores, butchers and so on for various groups.
A bunch of my ancestors started coming over in the early 19th century to work in the Pennsylvania coal mines for a few years to save up money and then go back home. From the family stories it seemed like a common thing to do and they'd come over in large groups, work together, and then go back home together.

Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Sep 5, 2023

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
In lighter news, a Belarusian Liberal Democrat (as in a cheap Zhirinovsky knockoff, not actual opposition) MP seems to have accidentally posted a dick pic in his telegram channel, and now claims hackers did it for his principled patriotic position, and also that it's not even his dick.

quote:

Those who are sitting there, looking at hands, something else, genitals, do something productive instead. Get busy! You shouldn't be studying male genitals - you should be working. It's all a lie and a hoax. It could never, ever be true. [...] In a way, I'm flattered that you lot are sitting there for half a day, attentively staring at the genitals that you think are mine. But they're not mine. And you're doing the wrong thing. You should be working!

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

He needs to describe his dick in detail so we can confirm or make extra sure and post his actual dick :shuckyes:

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
Sounds like his Prick-ozhin got de-fly-estrated

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
Remember Mazur?

Déjà vu time.

https://taz.de/Wilder-Trucker-Streik-in-Graefenhausen/!5956516/

Machine translation posted:

BERLIN taz | Two men in cowboy hats stand on the back of a truck and play their country guitars. Every now and then, musicians stop by at the Gräfenhausen rest area near Frankfurt am Main and give a little surprise concert. They want to show their solidarity with around 100 lorry drivers from Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Ukraine and Turkey. For more than six weeks they have been demanding their outstanding wages with a "wildcat strike". It is the longest known truckers' strike in Europe.

The protest was started by four truckers on 18 July this year. They followed up a similar strike in April at the same service station. From then on, the number of blue trucks at the site increased steadily. The drivers work for the Polish group Mazur, which includes the companies Lukmaz, Agmaz and Imperia with a fleet of around 1,000 trucks. In total, they are said to owe the drivers around half a million euros in wages. Many are waiting for two months' wages, for others it is seven or eight - and thus amounts of several thousand euros. The companies deny this and refuse to negotiate.

Since 31 August, the truck drivers have had a little more money in their pockets. The money came from an Austrian haulage company waiting for goods that drivers had loaded in Gräfenhausen. As a down payment on their outstanding wages, a representative of the company in Gräfenhausen handed over 20,000 euros in cash. In return, he received the load of a trailer. The money was divided among the 100 or so truckers on the spot, as Anna Weirich from the Fair Mobility advice centre told the taz.

For Weirich, who - when contacted by the taz - is once again at the rest stop to support the drivers, this is a first success. "We hope that other companies in the supply chain will follow suit." He says they are in talks with a number of companies. Weirich does not want to be more specific.

Then, a week later, the second success: on Thursday, 7 September, an Austrian transport company again pays out 20,000 euros in cash and receives its goods stranded in Gräfenhausen in return. "With this, another company has fulfilled its duty to take responsibility for working conditions and payments where subcontractors fail to do so," Weirich tells the taz.

On 19 August, the drivers had made public the names of companies and brands whose goods they loaded or who are involved in the supply chain as logistics companies. Among them are Porsche, Audi, VW, DHL, the furniture retailer Poco, the energy drink producer Redbull and the DIY stores Obi and Bauhaus. Ikea was also mentioned in the context.

According to the German Supply Chain Act, since January local companies have to ensure the protection of human rights and the environment in their supply chains - from the raw material to the finished sales product. Violations can be reported to the Federal Office of Economics and Export Control (Bafa). The Bafa informed the taz on request that 14 complaints had been received from January to the beginning of August. The Bafa did not want to say against which companies.

The accused companies denied cooperation with the Mazur group to the taz. Ikea stated that its supplier had ended its cooperation with Mazur at the beginning of 2023. Porsche also does not want to be in a "contractual relationship" with Mazur, nor is there "indirect commissioning by our partner companies". Volkswagen also makes similar statements for VW and Audi.

Obi and Bauhaus declare that they have forbidden their logistics service providers to pass on subcontracts to the Mazur Group. Bauhaus also states that it has "reviewed its supply chain risk management and tightened applicable transport guidelines" and now wants to review its supply chain "beyond the circle of our immediate suppliers".

Weirich is not convinced by the assurances. "That's what the clients always say," she tells the taz. It is possible that large companies have indeed lost track of their supply chain and are kept in the dark about subcontracting by their own contractual partners. "But the Supply Chain Duty of Care Act (Lieferkettensorgfaltspflichtengesetz), at the latest, makes it very clear that ignorance does not protect against responsibility.

Meanwhile, solidarity for the drivers is coming from different sides: Not only have they been visited in recent weeks by politicians from the Greens, the Left and the SPD, who promised to campaign for better laws. The SPD MEP Gaby Bischoff, among others, spoke of "modern slavery" and called for better controls within the framework of the Road Traffic Act, which should ensure that drivers who travel across borders are paid decently.

The alternative university union unter_bau from Frankfurt am Main called for donations for the drivers at the beginning of August. Most recently, the Swedish trade union Solidariska Byggare announced that it had set up a strike fund for the drivers. The aim is to collect and pay out 1,000 euros per person - about 100,000 euros.

During the first strike in April, the company owner Łukasz Mazur came with a group of thugs who threatened the strikers. The Darmstadt public prosecutor's office is investigating the incident for, among other things, particularly serious breach of the peace, bodily harm and disturbing a meeting. In August, Mazur filed a complaint against the drivers for extortion. "Whether and to what extent the accusations made are true and how the facts of the case will be legally assessed is the subject of the investigation," the public prosecutor's office told the taz. The drivers are also considering filing charges against Mazur.


Word of the day: Lieferkettensorgfaltspflichtengesetz

MonikaTSarn
May 23, 2005

I find it weird that's there's nothing to be done about this for so long. The company is obviously bankrupt, just sell off the trucks and all their contents and pay the drivers from that.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
It doesn't seem very bankrupt, just exploitative.

And of course, you can't really do bankruptcy things against a company that doesn't file for bankruptcy (though not filing is illegal iirc). Not my specialty.

However, afaik Mazur has PiS connections, so…

mojo1701a
Oct 9, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Lichtenstein posted:

Yeah. Polonia in the US is one of the worst about it, since there's a lot of really old emigration, like pre-world wars, leaving a lot of people that are really detached from anything but broad fantasies about the country. There's a certain kind of brainrot that sometimes hits at 3+ generation of immigrants where you're long past concerns of fitting in the new place, they're past anyone in the family trying to teach them the language (and by extension, any cultural contact being long dormant) but they've got this heritage that can become *their thing*. Think of the Plastic Paddies, but with extra layers of solipsist detachment due to being outside of the anglosphere.

There's a specific flavour of this in the Polish-Canadian community (at least, insofar as I've observed it where I live, as well as Toronto and Mississauga), whereby the post-WWII set are a lot more chill than the Solidarity-era immigrants because they really seemed to internalize a lot of the anti-Communist rhetoric of those times.

At least, this is all according to my dad who came to Canada when he was 3. It was especially a big boon to Liberal politicians because Pierre Trudeau was the one that opened up a lot of immigration in the '60s. My older cousin meanwhile came here in the late '80s and he'll snarl the moment you whisper... that name.

Also: some of my mom's friends tried to organize a rosary in the name of the Ottawa convoy. Thankfully my mom's not into that poo poo (the convoy, I mean), but pretty much everyone she knows is brain-poisoned in that way around here, and I'm not sure the kids are that much better. Then again they live on the actual outskirts of town and on farms, so that could just be that good ol' urban/rural divide.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005

Sekenr posted:

I accidentalyy wore white-red-white today when I wen to buy cigarettes. Which under current laws is "extremism". I did not meet any cops but people stared

If anyone asks tell them they are your favorite team's colors.

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

One of these situations where I read Polish news on the Guardian instead of finding out about it from the local media :shrug:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/sep/12/polish-tv-talent-show-contestants-use-blackface-for-kendrick-lamar-beyonce-performances

Doing blackface while screaming the n-word is sure a look.

Reminds me of the festival where Poles dress up as Americans.

https://mymodernmet.com/4th-of-july-larp-poland/

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.
Oh yeah they’ve been doing blackface on that show forever

armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts

Mokotow posted:

Reminds me of the festival where Poles dress up as Americans.

https://mymodernmet.com/4th-of-july-larp-poland/

My ex played that larp and holy poo poo, the stories i heard about the organisers trying extremely hard to communicate to clueless polish nerds why the confederate flag is a Bad Look™

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.

goblin week posted:

Oh yeah they’ve been doing blackface on that show forever

the usual suspects tend to crawl out to say that
a) antiblack racism is an american problem and here it’s all in good fun
b) there are no black people in poland anyway why are you offended on behalf of noone

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Mokotow posted:

Reminds me of the festival where Poles dress up as Americans.

https://mymodernmet.com/4th-of-july-larp-poland/

Never mind blackface, those larpers need fatsuits.

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

It’s produced by Endemol, a Dutch company. They know exactly what blackface is and what they’re doing.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.

Mokotow posted:

It’s produced by Endemol, a Dutch company. They know exactly what blackface is and what they’re doing.

That’s a wholesome zwarte piet celebration so mayhaps YOU are the real racist :smuggo:

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!

goblin week posted:

Oh yeah they’ve been doing blackface on that show forever

Yeah, and not just in Poland. Russia, China, Bulgaria, Thailand, Philippines, and I'm sure many, many more that youtube never recommended to me.

the heat goes wrong
Dec 31, 2005
I´m watching you...

Paladinus posted:

Yeah, and not just in Poland. Russia, China, Bulgaria, Thailand, Philippines, and I'm sure many, many more that youtube never recommended to me.

Not all countries have same history of minstrel shows and taboos. But globalisation is slowly eroding that.

Comte de Saint-Germain
Mar 26, 2001

Snouk but and snouk ben,
I find the smell of an earthly man,
Be he living, or be he dead,
His heart this night shall kitchen my bread.

Mokotow posted:

One of these situations where I read Polish news on the Guardian instead of finding out about it from the local media :shrug:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/sep/12/polish-tv-talent-show-contestants-use-blackface-for-kendrick-lamar-beyonce-performances

Doing blackface while screaming the n-word is sure a look.

Reminds me of the festival where Poles dress up as Americans.

https://mymodernmet.com/4th-of-july-larp-poland/

This show has blackface on it every time I've seen it.

It reminds me of a situation a few years ago. I went to a party, mixed foreigners and poles, and at one point someone put on the TV and there was some charity concert. As part of the show, some polish folks were wearing cooly hats, eyes taped back, plastic buck-teeth, coke-bottle glasses, full on hard-core yellowface. The orchestra started playing what I can only describe as "ching chong bing bong" music.

One of the poles stood in front of the TV and addressed the party-goers, she said, "Please, I ask you to not judge us too badly for this, in Poland we don't know that this is racist yet."

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Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Eastern Europe: we don't know that this is racist yet

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