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Yeah I got fed some line about how "You're not ready yet, but soon" to even apply for an internal position I was more qualified for than anyone in the building, and I was putting in my notice like two months later.
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Aug 31, 2023 02:48
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Parallelwoody posted:Yeah I got fed some line about how "You're not ready yet, but soon" to even apply for an internal position I was more qualified for than anyone in the building, and I was putting in my notice like two months later. Oof. Yeah we get fluff pieces of the C-suite talking about their careers and every single one of the fuckers is like "oh my most important role was the one I was absolutely not prepared for but I took it and listened to the team and I learned so much, I was so absolutely humbled and honored to work alongside such shining examples of [corporate ideals]" Then in my career discussion I suggest that I'm interested in taking the next step and my boss is like "oh but have you considered how much value a lateral could bring to your career?" and I'm like "Yeah, sure did, less than a promotion so gonna just angle to move up" and then after some back and forth I get a "just not sure you're ready yet, what if you did some extra prep work"? Apparently "C-suite fuckwads won't shut up about how not ready they were for all their most transformative roles and I can deal with ambiguity so I'm gonna stretch myself " isn't the right answer because after like 20 seconds of awkward silence I got "Hmm, yes, but have you considered a lateral" and I just murmured some platitudes so I could get back to daydrinking because this all happened on a public holiday that accountants apparently don't get to have off because reasons. I should never have attempted to improve my station in life and just kept playing videogames in an unsanitary hovel; I'd probably have been happier.
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Aug 31, 2023 06:43
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you are allowed to just say things in business. the only place you are not allowed to lie is contracts and the punishment is just money or performance
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Aug 31, 2023 06:51
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Zarin posted:I should never have attempted to improve my station in life and just kept playing videogames in an unsanitary hovel; I'd probably have been happier.
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Aug 31, 2023 09:11
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Parallelwoody posted:Yeah I got fed some line about how "You're not ready yet, but soon" to even apply for an internal position I was more qualified for than anyone in the building, and I was putting in my notice like two months later. Preach. I've posted about this before, but I spent six years in one place being told I wasn't ready to move up. Subsequently went job hunting for higher level roles, missed out on one because they thought I was too senior, and they instead offered me a senior management role. 30% pay bump. Don't let them keep you underpaid.
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Aug 31, 2023 12:12
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Parallelwoody posted:Yeah I got fed some line about how "You're not ready yet, but soon" to even apply for an internal position I was more qualified for than anyone in the building, and I was putting in my notice like two months later. +1 to this, I was talking to my manager and mentioned that a lot of people my age/experience were making it to senior and he flat-out said "I think they're getting promoted too soon" I had a senior position at a 40% raise not 2 months later. Granted it's a bit of a meat grinder in comparison to my luxe previous job but I'm succeeding at it
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Aug 31, 2023 12:51
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Another important part of changing jobs is that your experience is in your current company, which means it's essentially the same as everyone else's. But in a new job, all that experience is a fresh perspective, which is much more valuable, especially since you will pretty quickly be able to compare old and new and find the best way. It's also amazing how much you realize you actually know when you move away from the people who haven't taught you those things or heard them a million times before. So yeah, don't ever be afraid to jump ship.
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Aug 31, 2023 13:09
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One of the interesting things I'm learning right now is that the UK cybersecurity degree courses don't seem to actually include basic scripting in there, or at least whatever level they teach it to makes me look like some form of mad wizard to recruiters by virtue of having taken the "traditional" career path of generalised CS degree > helpdesk phone monkey > other IT job. It's rather eye-opening to realise that I've got a whole pile more in-depth knowledge than most people looking at the same jobs when I'm going "oh yeah I have six years in various security roles" and not mentioning all the other stuff I did to get to that first security job.
Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Aug 31, 2023 |
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Aug 31, 2023 13:15
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If people tell you you aren't ready for a promotion without specific gaps that you need to close they're stringing you along.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:08
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Yeah I’ve told people in the last year that they aren’t getting promoted and the conversation is always about what they need to do to get promoted in the next cycle (or that I don’t think they will, and to plan for 2 cycles… and what they need to do).
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Aug 31, 2023 14:15
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Our board got collectively dropped on their heads recently and after like, six years of working very hard to reinforce cycle-based promotion schedules with everyone being managed to promotion on-cycle just decided to promote a) a number of people off cycle and then b) a follow up to promote one specific non-entity off-off-cycle. To say I am annoyed is an understatement.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:22
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If people tell you you aren't ready for a promotion without specific gaps that you need to close they're stringing you along. Jordan7hm posted:Yeah I’ve told people in the last year that they aren’t getting promoted and the conversation is always about what they need to do to get promoted in the next cycle (or that I don’t think they will, and to plan for 2 cycles… and what they need to do). Sometimes it's the company not the person. If numbers are bad and budgets are tight, people who should get promoted won't. Sometimes it's also lovely upper management who put stronger bars against women or minorities for judging against the rubric.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:28
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Our board got collectively dropped on their heads recently and after like, six years of working very hard to reinforce cycle-based promotion schedules with everyone being managed to promotion on-cycle just decided to promote a) a number of people off cycle and then b) a follow up to promote one specific non-entity off-off-cycle. Did they fund them with layoffs? Last time I saw that they laid off a bunch of people before promoting execs to senior execs off cycle.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:31
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We're both in a consulting environment where promotions are pretty sacred. If numbers are bad and budgets are tight people will get laid off before you gently caress with promotion schedules for people who are achieving.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If people tell you you aren't ready for a promotion without specific gaps that you need to close they're stringing you along. Sometimes its because the person kinda sucks but doesn't quite suck enough to warrant action...yet. Same advice for the person though, I guess.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:31
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leper khan posted:Did they fund them with layoffs? Last time I saw that they laid off a bunch of people before promoting execs to senior execs off cycle. No, we're doing perfectly fine on revenue; cost numbers are less good but still decent. Hiring is slower but that was expected. Again, this is consulting so you're selling hours; laying people off is generally stupid unless they're not performing or you really do not have work. The off-off-cycle promotion is to the leadership team, which also irritates me, because this person is not qualified and they are also in a back-office role that does not have clear requirements and if they left nobody would care.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:34
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That is frustrating as hell. The cycle is annoying but maintaining it keeps everyone in line. I do think the 2x per year cycle in places like Deloitte is way better than the 1x per year cycle. A year is too long to make people wait for a maybe in this business.
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Aug 31, 2023 15:07
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Jordan7hm posted:That is frustrating as hell. The cycle is annoying but maintaining it keeps everyone in line. I agree, I would prefer us to move to a 2x/year to give more opportunity to people and give more true checkpoints for progress. The all-or-nothing nature of the annual cycle is frustrating, and for some people they're not ready in 12 but they are in 18. The problem is that the cycle is a heavy administrative burden and we're still pretty small.
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Aug 31, 2023 15:13
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Jordan7hm posted:That is frustrating as hell. The cycle is annoying but maintaining it keeps everyone in line. We've done a kind of tick-tock cycle where we had a bigger promotion cycle once a year and then a smaller opportunity that was more of a "need" but still a set time where you can put people if you really can't/shouldn't wait another 6 months.
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Aug 31, 2023 15:37
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Lockback posted:We've done a kind of tick-tock cycle where we had a bigger promotion cycle once a year and then a smaller opportunity that was more of a "need" but still a set time where you can put people if you really can't/shouldn't wait another 6 months. That’s what Deloitte does, what EY in the US has done. The normal cycle is late summer / early fall, but some folks get agile promotions if well deserved in early winter. The comp is typically not the full comp improvement, but rather a partial increase that gets trued up in the main cycle. I’ve never really seen someone get a winter promote and think it was undeserved.
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Aug 31, 2023 16:38
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We require 2 “overachieving” or 1 “holy poo poo this person is good” ratings before we can promote someone, and then it’s subject to running the gauntlet of the people who didn’t get the promotion and the candidate’s new peers. It’s pretty brutal! But I think it’s well designed. E: structurally it obviously still is way harder than being hired into a senior role as an outsider, but since that’s how I got in, glass houses, stones.
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Aug 31, 2023 16:50
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I may have asked this before, but I can't find it. Modern job application sites liked LinkedIn, Indeed and ZipRecruiter will sometimes have little questionnaires embedded into the process. Sometimes they ask sensible things like "What's your LinkedIn Profile" or "What are your pronouns" (which I am happy with) and sometimes it's things already on your resume. Well, other times, it says the dreaded "What are your salary requirements" question there to gatekeep you and keep costs down. What do you all put down? Obviously, this assumes there's no range listed. Of course, if there is a range listed, then why are the asking. if there is no range listed for the position, the correct answer is to write "Suck My loving Dick" and not apply but for funsies let's play along. When it's text, I put a load of flim-flam, and when it's a number, I put a 0 since I think it's more likely that they discard high numbers than low numbers, but maybe I should just put in a gently caress you number. In any case, I note that they did this in my log so if it goes further I know to be prepared to play hardball. Are there any hiring manages who have been on the other side of that?
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Aug 31, 2023 17:54
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$1,000,000
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Aug 31, 2023 17:56
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I think 0,1, or 999999999 is better because it lets you communicate that you don't want to talk about that yet without being weird about it. HR sets up our process and its the same gate the whole company uses so I can't change it. I think any decent hiring manager will see the number and get the point.
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Aug 31, 2023 18:11
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Zarin posted:Oof. These interviews are a textbook case of survivorship bias. No one ever does these interviews with people who weren’t promoted. My workplace did this stuff (they labeled it career building) and I quickly realized that the interviewees were unremarkable and not even especially talented. What they got was opportunities to move up, learn things, and grow their profile. If you want to move up the ladder, you have to work for people who are willing and able to promote you. Nothing else matters, not even your ability to do the job. Go out and try to find those people if you want to get promoted.
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Aug 31, 2023 19:16
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Beefeater1980 posted:We require 2 “overachieving” or 1 “holy poo poo this person is good” ratings before we can promote someone, and then it’s subject to running the gauntlet of the people who didn’t get the promotion and the candidate’s new peers. It’s pretty brutal! But I think it’s well designed.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:06
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Anonymous Robot posted:Yes, this is absolutely what is happening. My disposition is such that I will always work as hard as possible, so I need to be in a position where the compensation is appropriate for that. Update on this: they approached me today and offered a promotion (with the company standard 14% raise.) Probably because I told them in no uncertain terms at my mid-year review that I had previously received offers from other teams within the company. Doesn’t change things that much, I still need to get a LinkedIn together, update my resume and start doing some field research. As part of that process, I discovered that the person who I initially replaced in this role (and my former direct report) is now the director of a similar department at another company, so there’s contact #1 made!
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Aug 31, 2023 20:56
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MickeyFinn posted:These interviews are a textbook case of survivorship bias. No one ever does these interviews with people who weren’t promoted. My workplace did this stuff (they labeled it career building) and I quickly realized that the interviewees were unremarkable and not even especially talented. What they got was opportunities to move up, learn things, and grow their profile. When I was under a manager who wouldn't advocate for me, I was promoted once in four years and it was two years later than it should have been (according to principals / partners who would know). My next company, I had a manager who advocated for me and was promoted twice in three years. It makes such a difference.
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Aug 31, 2023 21:17
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At my company every senior leader states that moving around the company and taking new challenges was the most beneficial thing for their development. When asked if they believe that people can do that now they say absolutely yes. When asked what they are doing to enable it they start mumbling.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:13
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Chaotic Flame posted:When I was under a manager who wouldn't advocate for me, I was promoted once in four years and it was two years later than it should have been (according to principals / partners who would know). My next company, I had a manager who advocated for me and was promoted twice in three years. It makes such a difference. Some companies measure manager performance based on number of promotions they make happen.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:27
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Arquinsiel posted:How often are you running your review process so that people can get those ratings? Twice annually
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Sep 1, 2023 00:29
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I used to work for a large F100 company. They'd regularly trot out a senior exec to talk about their career path, how they moved up the ranks, etc. And I don't think they intended it this way, but it was crystal clear that they moved up and around a lot due to being in the company when it was first founded, and those sorts of opportunities are either incredibly difficult (i.e. transferring to an office in Europe or Asia, which they outright block now) or impossible (set up a brand new division).
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Sep 1, 2023 00:32
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Omne posted:I used to work for a large F100 company. They'd regularly trot out a senior exec to talk about their career path, how they moved up the ranks, etc. And I don't think they intended it this way, but it was crystal clear that they moved up and around a lot due to being in the company when it was first founded, and those sorts of opportunities are either incredibly difficult (i.e. transferring to an office in Europe or Asia, which they outright block now) or impossible (set up a brand new division). Oh yeah, for sure. Working for a growing newish company was absolutely the biggest factor for my growth.
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Sep 1, 2023 01:21
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I know of a person who has been promoted every 12-18 months since joining the company. Ended up running a business segment in near record time. The managers must have really recognized their potential for blowback if they messed with the career of a founder’s nephew
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Sep 1, 2023 02:15
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The only promotions I've received have been from moving jobs but I've also been in so many absurdly hosed professional situations I should write a book. I've also increased my salary 307% in 6ish years and am now fully wfh, and the last 1/4 of that increase I can directly attribute to the advice in this thread. I can't think of another resource on the internet that has had such a material impact on my quality of life than this one.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:31
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Depends largely on the company and industry. I got promoted within 6 months at this place.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:57
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My manager very suddenly left just short of a year for me, and despite telling me I was a shoo-in for promotion this fall (spring cycle was just shy of a year and apparently difficult to get approved), mentioned nothing to her boss, now our interim boss for the past 6 months. So much for that. List for promotion supposed to be forthcoming but I expect I’m pretty well screwed for this cycle at the very least. E: this is after being given a lower raise than the guy who’s been there for less than 6 months (3 at the time of raise) despite being rated exceeds on all categories with absolutely no criticisms. Been advised on the side I need to be relentlessly promoting myself at all times, and that’s just not how I operate. Don’t need a second job. Sorry /endrant REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Sep 1, 2023 |
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Sep 1, 2023 05:09
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Beefeater1980 posted:Twice annually The most senior person here is sick of their poo poo and just grumbling to everyone who will listen and it's great 
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Sep 1, 2023 11:11
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Arquinsiel posted:The most senior person here is sick of their poo poo and just grumbling to everyone who will listen and it's great This person is my spirit animal. Guide me, Great One!
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Sep 1, 2023 14:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Our board got collectively dropped on their heads recently and after like, six years of working very hard to reinforce cycle-based promotion schedules with everyone being managed to promotion on-cycle just decided to promote a) a number of people off cycle and then b) a follow up to promote one specific non-entity off-off-cycle. Having "a discussion" about this at lunch with our CEO. Let's see how much power I actually wield here.
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Sep 1, 2023 14:16
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