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Orcs and Ostriches posted:That's cool. SM's Skyrim overhauls are good. Haven't seen what the other three did but they don't have Arthmoor level infamy so it's a good sign. one of them did backend stuff for legacy of the dragonborn so...
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Aug 30, 2023 21:42
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Simsmagic posted:I think it's hilarious (and a bit sad) that they have already organized and are planning a community bugfix mod to a game that hasn't even released yet. Not to say that I trust Beth's QA department, because I certainly don't, but I hope it's improved to a point that a patch like this isn't strictly necessary. they are doing this because the alternative would be arthmoor hoarding it.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:46
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Yeah, not letting Arthmoor become "gate"-keeper (get it, hyuk hyuk) again would be a fantastic thing. That Spriggit tool they talk about is fantastic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgJaCaZSh98 I didn't know it existed. Being able to go back and forth between an esp/esm and text is fantastic! Like that alone will make it much easier to see exactly what went into each patch and to revert the bits you may not like. That's just a huge step for beth modding in general.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:59
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I was hoping someone would do this, and that team seems pretty solid. Arthmoor not being automatically top poo poo in a new modding community (largely because he's the face of others' work) can only be a good thing.
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Aug 31, 2023 03:10
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kartikeya posted:I was hoping someone would do this, and that team seems pretty solid. Arthmoor not being automatically top poo poo in a new modding community (largely because he's the face of others' work) can only be a good thing.
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Aug 31, 2023 03:33
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Commander Keene posted:Arthmoor: the Tommy Tallarico of Skyrim modding
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Aug 31, 2023 03:42
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Commander Keene posted:Arthmoor: the Tommy Tallarico of Skyrim modding lol Basically.
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Aug 31, 2023 05:54
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people are just saying wild poo poo in the comments "AE is the most unstable version of skyrim."
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Aug 31, 2023 06:16
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They also make a point of saying in the announcement that they offered to collaborate with the current unofficial patch team but were turned down. So Arthmoor decided he didn’t want to share.
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Aug 31, 2023 06:18
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I'd hazard a guess that there is more talent now, in the modding community of Skyrim which will probably lead to more in Starfield to start with. Assuming that, I don't know if Artmoor types can survive, you know? Modding was a lot smaller back then vs. now.
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Aug 31, 2023 06:31
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Commander Keene posted:Arthmoor: the Tommy Tallarico of Skyrim modding Does Archesmore still contribute to the community or did he go completely TT?
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Aug 31, 2023 08:01
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Commander Keene posted:Arthmoor: the Tommy Tallarico of Skyrim modding I'm vaguely aware he's done other stuff in the last twenty-five years, but I always know the man for only one thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Y23jzIldw MDK Fantastic soundtrack.
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Aug 31, 2023 08:05
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By popular demand posted:Does Archesmore still contribute to the community or did he go completely TT? He's literally in the comments of that announcement whining about it while he waits to be able to mod Oblivion gates into space stations for ~lore reasons~.
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Aug 31, 2023 08:28
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One change that I've been really happy to see since Arthmoor and friends rage-quit Nexus (and then, you know, came back) is that the modding community seems a lot more favorable toward the cathedral rather than the parlor approach to modding, to the point several very popular mods are just called that, and I honestly think it's contributing to the minor renaissance Skyrim is currently experiencing. My bias is showing, but drat does parlor modding lead to some of the most toxic poo poo I've seen in modding communities. I'm hoping Starfield continues in that direction.
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Aug 31, 2023 08:43
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Had to look it up but that cathedral approach just makes sense and should probably be heavily encouraged by both the game creators and the mod hosting sites. I'll even go a step further, if Achy Moore and his never-ending temper tantrum is the major reason why today's Nexus is so much better it was then he's the best E: Modder, drat the spell correction. By popular demand fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Aug 31, 2023 |
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Aug 31, 2023 08:59
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I am already growing the corn to make into popcorn at a later date because I can already tell having 2 unofficial patch teams is going to make for some gooooood drama and I want to be ready with snacks for when it happens.
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Aug 31, 2023 09:31
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kartikeya posted:One change that I've been really happy to see since Arthmoor and friends rage-quit Nexus (and then, you know, came back) is that the modding community seems a lot more favorable toward the cathedral rather than the parlor approach to modding, to the point several very popular mods are just called that, and I honestly think it's contributing to the minor renaissance Skyrim is currently experiencing. My bias is showing, but drat does parlor modding lead to some of the most toxic poo poo I've seen in modding communities. I'm hoping Starfield continues in that direction. Called what? The only mod i can think of called Cathedral is I think there's an ENB preset called Cathedral Lighting or Cathedral Weathers or something?
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Aug 31, 2023 10:44
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think the community splitting for a while between 1.6 and 1.5 led to a lot of skse modders generally being chill with other people making compatibility patches. A lot of the animators that made things like MCO etc also left of their own splinter group website called skyrim-guild.com.
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Aug 31, 2023 11:13
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Arivia posted:Called what? The only mod i can think of called Cathedral is I think there's an ENB preset called Cathedral Lighting or Cathedral Weathers or something? Cathedral Weathers, Cathedral Landscapes, Cathedral Assets Optimizer are the three biggest that spring to mind. https://www.nexusmods.com/users/50222836?tab=user+files&BH=0 seems to have an endless number, actually. By popular demand posted:Had to look it up but that cathedral approach just makes sense and should probably be heavily encouraged by both the game creators and the mod hosting sites. Much like his work with the unofficial patch, giving Arthmoor all the credit is a mistake, but he's made himself the face (by being the loudest and most insufferable). That said, his last big departure led to people immediately either working on replacements, or looking for and finding other mods that his had overshadowed that did much the same thing (and often better). The rest of the community got fed up and moved on, and while his mods are certainly still very popular, they're not the only contenders any more, and a number of mod list creators deliberately stripped either all or most of his mods out of their guides because they were fed up with him constantly yanking them. For instance, Lexy's used to have a number of them, but I think they've all been cut out aside from Alternate Start: LAL. The trouble with parlor modding isn't just that it tends to squash a lot of innovation (by limiting or eliminating altogether collaboration by different artists), but that a single mod author can corner a specific niche with a single mod, overshadow (or even, in Arthmoor's case, chase out) mods that do the same thing, and then just kind of squat there. If the mod's good there's little motivation for someone else to create their own - usually from scratch - unless the mod stops being updated and/or gets pulled from the site(s), either because the creator threw a tantrum, removed them because they decided to retire or move on, or simply hid them with the intention of updating and then never did. So when he - and several others - yoinked their poo poo, there was suddenly room for other folks to step in, and motivation for them to work together. It's not the only reason, obviously, and probably not nearly the biggest (I mean apparently some actual wizards moved in), but I think it's a pretty important factor in what feels like a tone shift. Haven't glanced in at the mod authors forum in a long while though. lol. Dunno if the tone's shifted in there.
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Aug 31, 2023 11:25
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Vavrek posted:I'm vaguely aware he's done other stuff in the last twenty-five years, but I always know the man for only one thing: By popular demand posted:Had to look it up but that cathedral approach just makes sense and should probably be heavily encouraged by both the game creators and the mod hosting sites. 
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Aug 31, 2023 12:27
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kartikeya posted:and while his mods are certainly still very popular, they're not the only contenders any more, and a number of mod list creators deliberately stripped either all or most of his mods out of their guides because they were fed up with him constantly yanking them. Did anyone keep count just how many times this motherfucker pulled poo poo back? because I was under the mistaken impression that only happened like once.
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Aug 31, 2023 12:33
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Ojjeorago posted:He's literally in the comments of that announcement whining about it while he waits to be able to mod Oblivion gates into space stations for ~lore reasons~. Arthmoor defenders currently sounding the alarm against a Nexus staff coup of the modding community  quote:too many people have issues with arthmoor that are either extremely old issues (ie: gategate from 2011) or completely unrelated to modding (ie: reddit brings it up just to bring it up). this project being led by 2 nexus staffers in their capacity as nexus staff feels like it is an attempt by nexus to gain more control over the community, though I am open to others pointing out why that may be wrong. I would much rather the patch not be pushed by nexus itself, but we shall see how nexus goes with this.
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Aug 31, 2023 12:41
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Oh poo poo they're going to storm the Nexus server farm!
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Aug 31, 2023 12:49
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kartikeya posted:Much like his work with the unofficial patch, giving Arthmoor all the credit is a mistake, but he's made himself the face (by being the loudest and most insufferable). That said, his last big departure led to people immediately either working on replacements, or looking for and finding other mods that his had overshadowed that did much the same thing (and often better). The rest of the community got fed up and moved on, and while his mods are certainly still very popular, they're not the only contenders any more, and a number of mod list creators deliberately stripped either all or most of his mods out of their guides because they were fed up with him constantly yanking them. For instance, Lexy's used to have a number of them, but I think they've all been cut out aside from Alternate Start: LAL. The trouble with parlor modding isn't just that it tends to squash a lot of innovation (by limiting or eliminating altogether collaboration by different artists), but that a single mod author can corner a specific niche with a single mod, overshadow (or even, in Arthmoor's case, chase out) mods that do the same thing, and then just kind of squat there. If the mod's good there's little motivation for someone else to create their own - usually from scratch - unless the mod stops being updated and/or gets pulled from the site(s), either because the creator threw a tantrum, removed them because they decided to retire or move on, or simply hid them with the intention of updating and then never did. So when he - and several others - yoinked their poo poo, there was suddenly room for other folks to step in, and motivation for them to work together. It's not the only reason, obviously, and probably not nearly the biggest (I mean apparently some actual wizards moved in), but I think it's a pretty important factor in what feels like a tone shift. There was a poster who used to be active here (whose name I can't remember, but I think used a Mackelmore av??) who was also involved in Minecraft modding and said all along that if there was a shift where the community would just tell the prima donna mod authors to pound sand and/or let them storm off in a tantrum, the "state of modding" would recover and move on and be just fine, if not better. That's how it happened in the Minecraft mod scene, and it looks like that's what happened here. drat, I kinda want to mod Skyrim again.
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Aug 31, 2023 12:55
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Just wanted to remind anyone that wants a project that there's only like 5 modlists compatible with GOG releases in total for all the games that are supported on Wabbajack. Converting and Adapting Steam modlists would be very appreciated. And presumably much easier and quicker than developing a complex mod.
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Aug 31, 2023 13:03
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By popular demand posted:Did anyone keep count just how many times this motherfucker pulled poo poo back? because I was under the mistaken impression that only happened like once. If only. I don’t know how many times he pulled or hid his mods, his tantrums were many and varied. On top of that, he tried to yank or otherwise gently caress with the Unofficial Patch on multiple occasions, despite it not actually being his mod. One memorable incident was that time he threw a fit about Skyrim VR’s release, declared he wasn’t going to make a patch for it, and then, when VR folks discovered a certain version of the Unofficial Patch did actually work for VR, he accused them of being pirates or something and pulled that version off Nexus (I think the rest of the team made him put it back). You’ll notice a lot of whining about Reddit from him and his buddies whenever they have the excuse; that’s because whenever he did this poo poo, r/Skyrimmods or whatever it is would mention it, people in the thread would be critical, then he and other folks would roll in and start yelling about how mod users were super ungrateful. He eventually got himself banned after a particularly large hissy, so he sulked on the private Nexus mod creator board about how “toxic” r/skyrimmods is. Anyway, the answer is a lot, and that’s not counting how many times he just threatened to do so.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:10
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It would have actually been easier to build his own game with a modding board he'd have complete control of. And don't tell me no one would frequent that theoretical cesspool because we all know some nerds who'd jump right in.
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Aug 31, 2023 14:16
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By popular demand posted:It would have actually been easier to build his own game with a modding board he'd have complete control of. an attempt was made
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Aug 31, 2023 14:19
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When did early access become the endearing term for 'either a scam or a failure'? I don't keep up with the Gaben's jokes you see. *Or a failed scam
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Aug 31, 2023 15:45
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GunnerJ posted:There was a poster who used to be active here (whose name I can't remember, but I think used a Mackelmore av??) who was also involved in Minecraft modding and said all along that if there was a shift where the community would just tell the prima donna mod authors to pound sand and/or let them storm off in a tantrum, the "state of modding" would recover and move on and be just fine, if not better. That's how it happened in the Minecraft mod scene, and it looks like that's what happened here. Not that I want to take place of Mr. Mackelmore AV, but that is kinda of my experience with Minecraft modding. YEARS ago (in 2011) Minecraft modding was a modify-your-base-files-weirdly affair, an extremely opaque dirty way to mod your game. At the same time, the not-official Minecraft modding forums were where all modding took place. The situation was all parlor, all the time. You had the thread with the mods behind adf.ly links, and a very heavy parasocial relationship aspect with the people who didn't make the mods shouting down the people (mostly kids probably) asking for help on how to install mods. And since you never just do one mod, players wanted to have multiple mods, which then reflected in a bunch of mini-arthmoors smugly saying their mods were more important that whatever other mods you were trying to use at the same time and to stop asking for help if you're too dumb to mod your game  and it was loving awful. Since I, the cool guy, had been modding games already (the OG Counter-Strike 1999/2000 and Morrowind and Oblivion later) I roughly understood more about modding and just rolled my eyes and tried to ignore the awful, awful community. I ended up mashing a bunch of technical Minecraft mods together, Industrial Craft, Buildcraft, Better Than Wolves, among others, into my game. I was posting about it in the thread here on SA about how these mods actually worked together in novel ways that nobody designed for, but the nature of them meant you could use Industrial Craft fuel in Buildcraft, for instance. A couple people asked how and what mods I was using, so I went and carefully made a .zip file full of all the raw files you'd need to drop on top of your base Minecraft game in order to get the set of mods I was using in my game but without any Minecraft code itself, sidestepping any actual, real piracy concerns, and posted the file here on SA. Because I knew how loving awful the Minecraft modding community was at the time, I deliberately included a .txt file that said something along the lines of "this community sucks and everyone is going to be mad I'm doing this whatever gently caress em" if only so I could take ownership of the drama that might come at me later if someone from the minecraft modding forums found out what I was doing. I didn't expect anyone to actually find out, since I was just sharing a .zip file on Something Awful for a couple people so they didn't have to gently caress around with modding because they just wanted to play the game without any fuss, but the state of modding in Minecraft at the time meant I knew I'd get pushback even though I didn't actually post on the Minecraft forums if any of those scrubs found out. It was one of those things where I don't know why I did the .txt file at the time, but I was compelled to do it anyway. I called it 'Technic Pack' on account of all the technical mods included. Yogscast (Yee Olde Goon Squad = YOGS) was still closer to Something Awful at the time and were wildly popular on Youtube with their Minecraft Let's Play series and Lewis happened to grab the .zip file I made and whoops, made a Let's Play series with far more people that the SA Minecraft thread. Suddenly that .zip file I uploaded didn't have 3 downloads, it had 30,000. Then 60,000, then 120,000, etc. I went "UHHH" and quickly found new hosting as, of course, the .zip got DMCA'd by someone, slapped together a website and leaned into the "hehe gently caress u modding community we're """""pirates""""" now!" because that .txt file I included was also in the .zip that hundreds of thousands of people now had. The popularity kept building, and people much smarter than me started just kinda showing up and going "hey saw your technicpack that's cool you need a better website/art/playtester" and we just kinda formed up as a loose group then became friends and business partners and refined what we are doing which eventually lead to getting MUCH more sophisticated with mods and mod packs in Minecraft modding. https://www.technicpack.net is where we eventually ended up  We never have taken donations or accepted money from anyone, we only did ads. We also were very clear where the mods came from and who made them, we never claimed ownership. I couldn't tell you how much of what we did shifted the Minecraft modding community but I'd hazard a guess and say pretty significantly since the old ways of mods on the Minecraft forums is dead, it's all modpacks now. It would have happened anyway probably, I just happened to be at the right place at the right time AND be the sort of person that doesn't want the weirdo fiefdoms and popularity or be a streamer star or whatever, I was a comparatively old man vs. the rest of the community at the time, now I'm just an old man. Right place, right time, me going "gently caress U IDIOTS", others smarter and better than I going "lol yeah gently caress u idiots" and just ignoring the Arthmoors (FlowerChild with Better Than Wolves was absolutely the Arthmoor of Minecraft modding at the time) and also not running from DMCAs. When you get a DMCA you can go "Hello yes I have received the DMCA I now implore the person filing it to take me to court" and then the DMCAs just go away because nobody ever puts up? They always shut up instead? It's true. The end user, the players, get to decide what lives and dies. If they don't like your poo poo, they'll download some other mod. The individual being the mod doesn't matter nearly as much. This is now where Skyrim modding has finally clawed to, ease of use, open and free modding, self improvement. There is plenty of fiefdom and celebrity parasocial stuff even then so everyone can win! TLDR: Made a .zip file one time and called it 'Technic Pack' for Minecraft and rode that into a very lucrative career for my friends and I all because we told would-be arthmoors that end-users are more important than they are.
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Aug 31, 2023 16:48
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KakerMix posted:Not that I want to take place of Mr. Mackelmore AV, but that is kinda of my experience with Minecraft modding. Okay, I am like 99% sure you're who I was thinking of... no idea how my memory turned a dino into a white rap guy tho. Edit: Thanks for sharing, your story is fun and cool! GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Aug 31, 2023 |
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Aug 31, 2023 17:11
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In terms of what Arthmoor has removed: he single-handedly decided which versions of Skyrim are supported by the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch. That seems to be 1.6.629 today and you need to include some of the CC files because they've been made masters. So if you want to run 1.5.97, you need to get the unlisted v4.2.5b, but if you want to run a 1.6.x version and don't want the CC files in your load order you can get v4.2.6a instead, also unlisted. You would only know this because a google search landed you at posts like this that list these versions: Using 1.6 AE and CC content with 1.5.97, common misunderstandings. He decided that everyone must play the latest version, because bug reports, and hid every other version. The only reason you can still get the old files is because the Nexus mandated that every file uploaded to them will remain available even if the modder hides them so that Wabbajack lists will continue to work without constant maintenance - this pissed off a lot of people and not for bad reasons, but I'm glad it stopped Arthmoor in his tracks given that the USSEP has contributions from literally 100s of people if not 1000s. E: the point lost among all those  is that he could have listed the same versions I have above and said "hey, if you want to use an older version here you go and here's what you lose through that choice - oh and don't bother submittings for these older versions, we'll ignore them"
v1ld fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Aug 31, 2023 |
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Aug 31, 2023 17:19
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Some speculation that I think is not amiss in light of the Arthmoor supporters banging on about AFKmods in the comments to that article. How many mods will depend on Arthmoor's patch as a master? How out of the way will he go to make it difficult to just replace it with the other patch? That Spriggit tool is a game changer. It makes it much easier for anyone to just dump an esp/esm to text and edit out or replace the bits you need then recompile the file back to esp/esm. To say nothing of doing text diffs to see what's different between versions. Like it's huuuuuuuge.
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Aug 31, 2023 17:23
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My favorite thing about Arthmoor hiding older versions is his reasoning being "I don't want to deal with bug reports of old versions". But now you got people asking where they can get the old versions and other people reuploading them because either they don't want to install the AE stuff or are playing VR and its like, at what point are you just creating more work hiding the links and going after people who post them than if you just kept the links up.
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Aug 31, 2023 17:59
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Outside of Arthmoor-chat, I don't get why people dog on the Creation Club/Anniversary Edition stuff. It's not perfect, but some of it's kind of nice, especially with patches to remove some of the issues. Of course, when it comes to content and variety, my philosophy can often be summed up as: As long as it's not offensively bad (OBIS) or dull (Falskaar.)
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Aug 31, 2023 18:08
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Leal posted:My favorite thing about Arthmoor hiding older versions is his reasoning being "I don't want to deal with bug reports of old versions". But now you got people asking where they can get the old versions and other people reuploading them because either they don't want to install the AE stuff or are playing VR and its like, at what point are you just creating more work hiding the links and going after people who post them than if you just kept the links up. I've gotten into writing mods for other games and a lot about the Arthmoor style of engagement as a mod author is now very mysterious to me. Like you can honestly just say "I don't have capacity to support old versions, sorry." That's it! You don't owe anyone more time than you have, you can just ignore stuff! This is just a hobby!
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Aug 31, 2023 18:09
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Agents are GO! posted:Outside of Arthmoor-chat, I don't get why people dog on the Creation Club/Anniversary Edition stuff. It's not perfect, but some of it's kind of nice, especially with patches to remove some of the issues. Of course, when it comes to content and variety, my philosophy can often be summed up as: The vast majority of it is absolute garbage quality that doesn't seamlessly fit into the game. It's either unbalanced, annoying, goes against established lore, or just stupid. Off the top of my head, survival mode is fine, but I prefer mod implementations. Fishing it eh if that's your thing. Elianora has a cool house that bypasses the requirements that every other property has. There's a cool goblin companion. Some of the new armour sets are cool. The rest detracts from the game. Annoying pets that just get in your way. Stupidly powerful weapons you can get at absurdly low levels. Aedric artifacts some random bandit owns. I've been looking for you. Got something I'm supposed to deliver - your hands only. Lets see...
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Aug 31, 2023 18:20
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GunnerJ posted:I've gotten into writing mods for other games and a lot about the Arthmoor style of engagement as a mod author is now very mysterious to me. Like you can honestly just say "I don't have capacity to support old versions, sorry." That's it! You don't owe anyone more time than you have, you can just ignore stuff! This is just a hobby! It's because you aren't an insecure fiefdom seeking weirdo like that guy
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Aug 31, 2023 18:25
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I'm mostly of the opinion that Arthmoor's mods aren't great but they mostly aren't horrible and I will never ever ever have to interact with the guy directly so ultimately who cares, but that's a very solid team working on the Starfield community patch and I expect good things (and also some fun drama).
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Aug 31, 2023 18:29
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The mod makers who preferred the parlor style of mods were also the sort of people who would of posted on sites like parler.com.
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Aug 31, 2023 18:32
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