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Deteriorata posted:A lot of range anxiety comes from the general lack of charging infrastructure and people's unfamiliarity with it. Fully agree on this - there is a lack of infrastructure and a lack of visibility. But both of these things will continue to improve over time and the idea that they will not is silly.
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Aug 31, 2023 15:25
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SlowBloke posted:Something that I don't really understand about the range issue panic is this, are you living in your car 24/7 and never stopping? Even at trickle charge speed, a night of sleep is a full battery. I realize I'm a super edge case here, but I have a one way one hour commute that for a couple of weeks becomes a 2 hour one way commute. In the winter based on how lovely the charging infrastructure is here I don't know if I could actually get back from the upper peninsula lol. I also do a lot of hunting/fishing/camping and towing my travel trailer across the state where there is roughly one charger doesnt sound great. Finally there's no way to trickle charge out in the woods. That being said I'd have an ev for a second car. My wife's commute is 15 minutes and she generally doesn't drive further than that on a given day running errands.
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Aug 31, 2023 15:33
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Deteriorata posted:A lot of range anxiety comes from the general lack of charging infrastructure and people's unfamiliarity with it. Of course I'm not saying it's a fundamental issue, but for now it's a challenge. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Aug 31, 2023 |
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Aug 31, 2023 15:46
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SlowBloke posted:I also heard about the volt spinning the engine up every X months, maybe those prius weren't serviced properly who knows. As a former Volt owner this is correct. It did engine maintenance every so often to burn fuel in the lines and keep things going. I think after two years (or one year?) of no engine usage it’d run the whole tank dry to keep things going. I never got to that point because it used the engine for heat in winter time in severe cold
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Aug 31, 2023 15:56
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Aug 31, 2023 15:56
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:also dude: you are loving deranged, dying of an allergic reaction is not the same thing as having to charge your car for 45 minutes It’s a dramatic analogy intended (obviously, I thought) as a joke but it has some truth to it. It’s a reference to how I feel about people who trivialize the need to drive a couple of hundred miles, sometimes in an emergency. What does it look like to evacuate from a hurricane with an ev city car that has 100 miles range? Sure you could charge it but hey everyone else needs to charge too, assuming these become the norm. So if city range evs are impractical for a do-everything-single-car and if building out every ev with tons of range might not be feasible, at least for awhile then a plug-in hybrid seems like an acceptable compromise But sure, there seems to be only one company betting on this, and it’s the same company that swung for the fences with a hydrogen car, maybe they really just hate evs
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Aug 31, 2023 16:50
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ADINSX posted:It’s a dramatic analogy intended (obviously, I thought) as a joke but it has some truth to it. It’s a reference to how I feel about people who trivialize the need to drive a couple of hundred miles, sometimes in an emergency. What does it look like to evacuate from a hurricane with an ev city car that has 100 miles range? Sure you could charge it but hey everyone else needs to charge too, assuming these become the norm. Toyota is hardly the only company betting on plug-in hybrids, GM tried really hard with the Volt and ELR and found that they just didn't sell well, it was hard for dealers to move them, they got tons of discounts, and then put GM at a disadvantage when they had burned through all their tax credits with PHEVs that people didn't want and then didn't have them available for EVs that people did want for a while.
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Aug 31, 2023 17:15
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As a Canadian who goes up north frequently I got a PHEV this year and I think it fits my use case perfectly. I drive 100 percent EV day to day and then once every couple months do a camping trip or see family where I drain a tank or two. In some cases, the trips literally could not be completed at all without some of the longest range EVs, and then it'd be hairy.. like having to drive an hour past my turn to the closest charging station (level 2 only) and then double back. Already replaced the second car with a bike so I really can't justify there being an EV in my life at all. I imagine this should change by the time I'm shopping for my next car, but for the time being I think PHEVs serve a purpose for people like me who want to reduce their emissions in town but need/want to go places far afield (where you can't fly or take rail). Yeah they are a compromise but I don't understand why so many view that as a bad thing. It's almost as if they don't understand the meaning of the word.
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Aug 31, 2023 17:34
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I like the giant frunk on the lightning, but they could have made a much more compelling case for leaving the little 3.3L v6 in there and making it a series PHEV instead of full EV.
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Aug 31, 2023 17:41
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SlowBloke posted:Something that I don't really understand about the range issue panic is this, are you living in your car 24/7 and never stopping? Even at trickle charge speed, a night of sleep is a full battery. If you completely drain the massive batteries in modern EVs with hundreds of miles of range, this isn't always the case. Admittedly it's worst-case scenario but getting a Hummer from 20% to 80% on a 7.4kW charger is ~18h. Which is still fine for day-to-day use but if you're taking a multi-day road trip, that hotel level 2 charger isn't going to get you as much as you'd hoped. ilkhan posted:I like the giant frunk on the lightning, but they could have made a much more compelling case for leaving the little 3.3L v6 in there and making it a series PHEV instead of full EV. I'm hoping something comes of the bed-mounted range extender idea that Ford had floated/patented? at one point. The EV range of a Lightning or Silverado is absolutely more than enough for most uses, but throw a trailer on and that changes drastically. Plus if you think EV charging infrastructure is bad now, imagine trying to use it with a trailer. Best possible use case for most people would be the ability to either buy the range extender with their truck or just rent one when they need to pull a trailer.
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Aug 31, 2023 18:08
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IOwnCalculus posted:I'm hoping something comes of the bed-mounted range extender idea that Ford had floated/patented? at one point. The EV range of a Lightning or Silverado is absolutely more than enough for most uses, but throw a trailer on and that changes drastically. Plus if you think EV charging infrastructure is bad now, imagine trying to use it with a trailer. I feel like anything that auxiliary would be an electrical only connection, and isn't series hybrid highway fuel economy awful? The BMW i3 does about 30mpg highway on gas, which is worse than most new cars, let alone anything that small and sleek. If you just drop a series hybrid into a half ton pickup, and then tow heavy with it, you're going to be getting 3-4MPG and running that engine hard. Maybe that's fine, but it doesn't sound awesome. If you're going to use gas on the highway with today's tech you really want a mechanical connection, and that has huge implications for the whole drivetrain.
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Aug 31, 2023 18:15
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Towing mileage sucks on most vehicles anyway. If trailer brakes could regen that would help a lot too but that's asking a lot of the shittiest built things that get put on the roads. It's not a great solution but it seems like a better idea to explore than trying to cram half a megawatt hour worth of battery into a truck so that you can have >100mi towing range.
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Aug 31, 2023 18:55
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ADINSX posted:it has a range of about 425 miles under what I imagine are extremely ideal conditions (what if I’m taking that road trip in the cold, or there’s a headwind?). I can easily do more than double that on a full day of driving. I hope you mean “with another licensed driver” because 850 miles for an individual in a single day is too much. That’s over 12 hours straight at 70mph. I’m sure this is going to end up being a spicy rear end opinion, but driving for 12 hours for an individual is way the gently caress too much for a day and still be safe.
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Aug 31, 2023 19:08
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bull3964 posted:I hope you mean “with another licensed driver” because 850 miles for an individual in a single day is too much. That’s over 12 hours straight at 70mph. I've had to do driving like that before and it's not ideal but I also didn't cause a 30 car pile up so who's to say really
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Aug 31, 2023 19:19
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Eh, I wouldn’t do it frequently or on back to back days (did this once, never again), but a single 12+ hour day of driving every once in a while doesn’t seem crazy. It’s not fun, but if you’re well rested, hydrated, take breaks, etc., you’re probably not any more dangerous than the average American driver.
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Aug 31, 2023 19:21
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I've been in a few evacuations and there isn't a lot of gas to go around in that situation either. Right now there's a ton of gasoline infrastructure and it's still not enough when a whole city needs to move at once. In a majority-electric world there would be more infrastructure and cars would charge quicker than they do now, but the time involved would still be untenable in many emergencies. On the other hand the electrical grid is somewhat decentralized and the electricity doesn't need to be put in a truck and driven to the charger, so it could probably recover more quickly. I guess EVs are less likely to be parked with the equivalent of an empty tank, which would be a bonus in something like a fire where you don't get much warning. Good thing there aren't inevitable environmental effects causing an increase in the frequency and severity of natural disasters. I would simply choose not to have them in my area.
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Aug 31, 2023 19:49
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moxieman posted:Eh, I wouldn’t do it frequently or on back to back days (did this once, never again), but a single 12+ hour day of driving every once in a while doesn’t seem crazy. It’s not fun, but if you’re well rested, hydrated, take breaks, etc., you’re probably not any more dangerous than the average American driver. If you are saying you wouldn’t do it frequently, you are admitting that it is an unacceptable risk and you are deferring to the odds as to whether or not an incident happens. In our capitalist hellscape, even commercial drivers have lower limits than that on them and you know they would push more if it wasn’t egregiously unsafe. There’s a certain level of mental fatigue that sets in after awhile that a 20 minute rest stop every 2 hours isn’t going to shake. Yeah, people get by just fine a lot of the time, the majority of the time, but it’s still not something that someone should plan for if they can at all help it. Get a hotel room, have a nice meal, get a good night’s rest. Your destination will be still be there the next day. Above all, I completely reject the notion that 400ish miles of range on an EV is “too little” under nearly all reasonable circumstances. There are absolutely still issues with destination charging infrastructure that need to either be worked out or (in the interim) planned around. However, I’ll never agree that the issue is how far you can drive before being forced to take a several hour break. Even if you have a 2nd driver, you could probably all benefit from a 90 minute stop somewhere to rest and move around after 6 hours in a vehicle. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Aug 31, 2023 |
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Aug 31, 2023 20:12
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SlowBloke posted:Something that I don't really understand about the range issue panic is this, are you living in your car 24/7 and never stopping? Even at trickle charge speed, a night of sleep is a full battery. That's true on a level 2 charger, which are far from ubiquitous right now. If you end up somewhere at the end of a 110v extension cord, a night's charge will be maybe 40 miles. That would leave me anxious.
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Aug 31, 2023 23:47
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Not to mention that Electrify America is getting money to build public chargers—not fix them.
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Aug 31, 2023 23:48
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The Altima is dead: https://www.thedrive.com/news/nissan-altima-will-speed-into-the-sunset-in-2025-report I'm taking bets on which dies first in the US, is it going to be the Camry or the Accord? Probably the Accord.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:05
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Speeding in to the sunset with a broken tail light, and a door on the opposite side thats dented to poo poo weaving in and out past all the other long running discontinued name plates from other manufacturers and a dragging muffler. until its brought back as the "Altima E-Cross" or some poo poo Will this increase or decrease Big Altima Energy? I feel like it will increase for at least ten more years before slowly fizzling out.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:19
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Twerk from Home posted:The Altima is dead: https://www.thedrive.com/news/nissan-altima-will-speed-into-the-sunset-in-2025-report You're probably right, the Accord is a less globally relevant platform right now so I think it dies after this generation. The facelift is not selling at all, either.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You're probably right, the Accord is a less globally relevant platform right now so I think it dies after this generation. The facelift is not selling at all, either. Honda kind of whiffed on this generation. They look like aliexpress Audi. Admittedly the last generation was kind of polarizing too.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:45
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Midjack posted:Honda kind of whiffed on this generation. They look like aliexpress Audi. Admittedly the last generation was kind of polarizing too. It's weird, I think they've done well with the Civic but the current gen accord both pre and post facelift are not great. edit: oh wait that thing is a new new one. yeah its ugly KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 1, 2023 |
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Sep 1, 2023 00:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You're probably right, the Accord is a less globally relevant platform right now so I think it dies after this generation. The facelift is not selling at all, either. The Accord's trim and engine level rework is unappealing to both enthusiasts (who wanted a loaded Accord with the 2.0T or at least a responsive gas drivetrain) and tightwads who wanted a base hybrid. Allowing only loaded hybrids or base non-hybrid models is a weird place to be. I guess that both the enthusiast and tightwad markets are probably pretty small and not worth considering, though.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:50
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Midjack posted:They look like aliexpress Audi.   
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Sep 1, 2023 01:26
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Tricky Ed posted:I've been in a few evacuations and there isn't a lot of gas to go around in that situation either. Right now there's a ton of gasoline infrastructure and it's still not enough when a whole city needs to move at once. Yea, growing up on South Louisiana I saw and experienced a lot of hurricane evacuations and a few things are very common: - There will be a run on gas and you’ll spend hours at the pump which may or may not still have gas when you get to your turn. People are filling cars, generators, spare cans, etc - You aren’t going to get that far anyway if you evacuate at the last minute because you’re going to be joined on the highway by everyone in town doing the same thing. You’ll sit on the Highway for hours to go 20 miles and use a bunch of your gas idling at 1 mph or less. Maybe you’ll abandon your car. If you leave early you’ll be fine but if you leave early you’ll fine in an EV too because you’ve got plenty of time to stop and charge and keep going. - You’ll lose power and having a big spare battery in you’re driveway is more useful than having a gas engine, especially if it’s a newer EV that supports V2L and can be used to run some lights and appliances.
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Sep 1, 2023 01:29
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PneumonicBook posted:I realize I'm a super edge case here, but I have a one way one hour commute that for a couple of weeks becomes a 2 hour one way commute. In the winter based on how lovely the charging infrastructure is here I don't know if I could actually get back from the upper peninsula lol. Yeah, I’ve been thinking about EVs for commuting and then literally throwing it in the dump when it rots from rust, but there’s absolutely no way I’m taking it to the UP to visit my mom. Turning an 8 hour trip into 10+ means I’m not going in a weekend. (Not that spending two of two days driving is really living it up anyway.) Doubly so if the closest charger is in loving L’Anse or Marquette. I’d spend most of that weekend sitting in a car a half hour/hour drive away from home instead of winterizing the boat like I need to be. VW is supposed to be doing a big rollout for the electric infrastructure in Michigan (thanks, Dieselgate!), but “a big rollout” means 10+ years and, as always, neglects the UP almost entirely. In the end, I don’t see a way for me to ever transition away from ICE in my lifetime.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:31
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The UP is the size of Maryland and makes my home state of Vermont look dense (and affluent). Putting charging infrastructure in the UP would be very dumb.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:36
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The UP is the size of Maryland and makes my home state of Vermont look dense (and affluent). Putting charging infrastructure in the UP would be very dumb. I have bad news for you about pipelines and all of Canadas population.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:38
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To say nothing of the lovely way you put that, I guess your area also doesn’t deserve infrastructure.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:46
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if sedans are dead why is every third car i see a model 3
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Sep 1, 2023 03:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The UP is the size of Maryland and makes my home state of Vermont look dense (and affluent). Putting charging infrastructure in the UP would be very dumb. Then why'd they put roads up there in the first place? smooth jazz posted:if sedans are dead why is every third car i see a model 3 What everyone means is "sedans don't have enough profit to be worth it" KakerMix fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Sep 1, 2023 |
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Sep 1, 2023 03:56
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Whoops double post
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Sep 1, 2023 03:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:also dude: you are loving deranged, dying of an allergic reaction is not the same thing as having to charge your car for 45 minutes Absolutely cooked. Oh no, on a once a year road trip I might have to spend 30 extra mins charging when I will be stopping for lunch anyway. This struggle is just as bad as literally dying a painful death gasping for my last breath thanks to a rogue peanut.
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Sep 1, 2023 04:06
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Lets be clear about Toyota, they backed hybrids over full EV's hard and long because they were betting on using Japan's plentiful nuclear power to generate a bunch of hydrogen, enough to become an exporter. They've been playing with hydrogen for a long time now, so would have a nice advantage in the H market. Unfortunately for them, something happened which soured the Japanese public on nuclear energy... Hard to say they have no EV plans when they sell full EV's already and had a recent big song and dance about like 15 new EV models. ilkhan posted:I like the giant frunk on the lightning, but they could have made a much more compelling case for leaving the little 3.3L v6 in there and making it a series PHEV instead of full EV. They sell a hybrid F150, slap a plug on it and close enough? IOwnCalculus posted:I'm hoping something comes of the bed-mounted range extender idea that Ford had floated/patented? at one point. The EV range of a Lightning or Silverado is absolutely more than enough for most uses, but throw a trailer on and that changes drastically. Plus if you think EV charging infrastructure is bad now, imagine trying to use it with a trailer. Funny you bring this up. Today's Smoking Tire podcast mentioned Range Energy, who's CEO he's had on before. They're putting a full EV drive train into semi truck trailers, batteries, motors, regen and everything. It adds power and range to either an EV or ICE truck, plus neat features like being able to move the trailer around a yard without a truck. Anyway, today he mentioned them because the CEO towed his racecar to Monterey car week with a prototype small trailer behind a Rivian and got 260mi range vs 314mi stated. Most real world EV towing tests seem to suggest about 50% hit on stock range, so that's a big improvement. https://www.instagram.com/p/CwBk77rvIcM/?img_index=2 https://range.energy/
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Sep 1, 2023 04:34
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BuckyDoneGun posted:They sell a hybrid F150, slap a plug on it and close enough?
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Sep 1, 2023 04:40
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BuckyDoneGun posted:
From a technology perspective that's cool as hell. From a real world perspective that's going to raise the cost of a trailer by an order of magnitude, and it's tied to that specific trailer forever. Need a different trailer or a rental trailer? Screwed. I don't expect that a bed-mountable range-extending genset would be cheap, but at least then that covers the truck for any trailer it ever pulls.
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Sep 1, 2023 06:39
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BuckyDoneGun posted:Absolutely cooked. Oh no, on a once a year road trip I might have to spend 30 extra mins charging when I will be stopping for lunch anyway. This struggle is just as bad as literally dying a painful death gasping for my last breath thanks to a rogue peanut. Unclench your pearls gentle goon, I’m not saying that stopping to charge a car is as bad as dying a painful death. What I’m saying is: sometime it isn’t a big deal to stop and charge a car, and sometimes it is. Sometimes you can get away with not carrying an epipen and sometimes that’s a bad idea I don’t think it’s a complicated point I’m trying to make: usually people drive about 40 miles a day. Sometimes they need to drive a few hundred. So there’s a couple of ways to solve this if you want an ev. You can get a city car with a small range and hunt around for charging stations if you need to exceed that range, or get a bigger ev and lug around thousands of pounds of expensive batteries even when you don’t normally use them The Prius prime lugs around its gas engine and its fuel and its batteries and is still is about 500 pounds lighter than the model 3 with about twice the range of the model 3. And hey if you want to go full prepper pack a spare gas can! When I lived in Louisiana my evacuation strategy was to keep my Yaris nearly full; I could sit in evacuation traffic if needed and still make it hundreds of miles. Because of this, I would personally never consider a city car ev if I lived in an area I ever needed to worry about evacuating from, and if I had to choose between a plug-in hybrid or an ev with a longer range, I would choose the hybrid I didn’t think pointing out that the Prius, one of the most popular cars in America, might end up being the better solution to transitioning to electric would be a spicy hot take but here we are
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Sep 1, 2023 07:52
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I would suggest to move to a country where emergency evacuations are not mundane events but i'm not judging.
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Sep 1, 2023 11:16
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