Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

NTRabbit posted:

I don't know about that one, but it is in public record that Stalin refused to allow the USAAF to use Soviet airbases for shuttle supply runs to the Poles during the Warsaw Uprising, as part of the Soviet plan to allow all the non-communist Polish partisans to be killed by the Germans, leaving the Soviet-backed communist partisans with no opposition post-German occupation.

Granted, while the Soviet armies that stopped short of Warsaw genuinely hit the wall and needed to stop for rest and refit after a long offensive, they wouldn't have moved in to support the uprising if they had been able.

Yeah, Stalin blocking aid to the Home Army etc is quite well known. The camps? No.

Apart from the claims posted here, I've never seen Stalin mentioned by *any* historian of the Holocaust or any memoir written by anyone who was part of the attempts to get the RAF or USAAF to bomb the camps or the railways leading to them. If this is new evidence, okay, fine, give references - Miller must have given footnotes or endnotes.

Primo Levi spent several months recuperating in Soviet care after they liberated Auschwitz.

Ed: also by early 1944 the USAAF had B-17s in Italy that could have easily reached Auschwitz and returned, with or without Stalin's approval.

Brindisi to Oswecim is 625 miles, the B-17 operational range was 2000 miles. Cake.

Ed2: yeah that's not Miller's argument at all.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?292821-2/allies-auschwitz-panel

He points out the 8th AF could have flown from the UK and either returned or flown to the Operation Frantic bases in Ukraine (but Stalin might possibly have objected) but he points out the 15th AF was *well* in range of the camp from Italy.

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Sep 2, 2023

# ? Sep 2, 2023 11:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 29, 2024 14:02

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1697650097864028505?s=20

# ? Sep 2, 2023 11:38

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

The point was, like I said in the point, that in some circles Stalin still has this reputation as some kind of great humanitarian, when on top of all the other reprehensible poo poo and crimes against humanity he did, he also literally said "nah you're not allowed to use MY airfields to go bomb extermination camps killing millions of Jews and other innocents"

Stalin never said this, and Miller does not claim he did. Based on the panel presentation he gave, you are clearly misrepresenting his views.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?292821-2/allies-auschwitz-panel

If you would quote where Miller claims what you say he did, please do so.

Ed: Lordy, there's tapes.

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Sep 2, 2023

# ? Sep 2, 2023 12:02

rowkey bilbao: Jul 24, 2023

Putin, the current leader of the Russia , is a tremendous piece of poo poo.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 12:06

zone: Dec 6, 2016

No pobeda Puccians? :laffo:

# ? Sep 2, 2023 12:12

Schweinhund: Oct 23, 2004

zone posted:

No pobeda Puccians?

sounds like he's forgotten about Barclay de Tolly

# ? Sep 2, 2023 12:50

poor waif: Apr 8, 2007; Kaboom

Schweinhund posted:

sounds like he's forgotten about Barclay de Tolly

Maybe the plan is to wait for Ukraine to reach Vladivostok, and then attack their exhausted supply lines. It's worth a shot.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:06

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Alan Smithee posted:

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1697650097864028505?s=20

Deport him back to Russia, and have him physically escorted by gay guards during the handover.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:08

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Child molesters are undesirable.

That's sufficient hypobole.

Karate Bastard fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Sep 2, 2023

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:13

Disco Pope: Dec 6, 2004; Top Class!

This is great:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/02/kremlins-propaganda-film-ukraine-war-plays-to-empty-cinemas

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:32

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Disco Pope posted:

This is great:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/02/kremlins-propaganda-film-ukraine-war-plays-to-empty-cinemas

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:37

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Disco Pope posted:

This is great:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/02/kremlins-propaganda-film-ukraine-war-plays-to-empty-cinemas

quote:

�Z culture simply lacks talented people,� said the veteran culture critic Mikhail Kozyrev, using a popular term to refer to creatives who have rallied around the Russian pro-war Z symbol.

it's like when maga chuds rant about hollywood but wish they could be hollywood

quote:

In an attempt to discourage the Barbie craze, Russia�s culture ministry on Thursday said that it won�t issue special permission to pirate copyrights to the movie, as the film was �not in line with the goals set by our president to strengthen the spiritual & traditional values of our citizens�.

will no longer be tolerated comrade

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:40

redshirt: Aug 11, 2007

Alan Smithee posted:

it's like when maga chuds rant about hollywood but wish they could be hollywood

will no longer be tolerated comrade

They are afraid of the Ken Song.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:43

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

Unable to stop the subsequent collapse of the Russian state when everyone finds out Putler is not kenough

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:46

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

tradtankies and chudcels moving to russia after being promised a mojo dojo casa house

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:51

bad_fmr: Nov 28, 2007

Traditional values of piracy.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:51

TulliusCicero: Jul 29, 2017

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1697721652891594916#m

Wow, I really thought BRICS was going to wor-HAHAHAHAHA

# ? Sep 2, 2023 13:55

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1697904887135134145

quote:

In Sverdlovsk region of Russia, authorities set up a limit on capturing hedgehogs (no more than one), and two types of small rodents - max. 20 species per one person.

There are special documents and coupons in place to control this.

Russian websites promote hedgehog meat as a delicacy and its fat as extremely good for health. They contain recipes for cooking that start with putting a live hedgehog into a hot oven.

Now we know where Russian propaganda got the idea that residents of UK eat squirrels...

From Kyiv in 3 days to "Help bread is too expensive" and "Let's catch hedgehogs and eat them" :rolleye:

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:09

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

https://i.imgur.com/M2YrbWO.mp4

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:11

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

zone posted:

From Kyiv in 3 days to "Help bread is too expensive" and "Let's catch hedgehogs and eat them"

'Robotnik' does sound like a Russian surname... :thunk:

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:21

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1697904887135134145

From Kyiv in 3 days to "Help bread is too expensive" and "Let's catch hedgehogs and eat them"

The Brits served roasted squirrel in restaurants and charged a small fortune for it.

The Russians just scrabbled around in hedges and trashpiles for free meat that wasn't even squirrel.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:25

kemikalkadet: Sep 16, 2012

ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:

The Brits served roasted squirrel in restaurants and charged a small fortune for it.

The Russians just scrabbled around in hedges and trashpiles for free meat that wasn't even squirrel.

It�s a traditional British crisp flavour

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:32

Strategic Tea: Sep 1, 2012

Every Christmas eve the aeldorman of every English town serves a traditional squirrel roast. You only pay what you can afford on the honour system but it's actually treason against the king not to partake at all

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:36

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

kemikalkadet posted:

It�s a traditional British crisp flavour

Never contained actual hedgehog :colbert:

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:38

Cartoon Man: Jan 31, 2004

Strategic Tea posted:

Every Christmas eve the aeldorman of every English town serves a traditional squirrel roast. You only pay what you can afford on the honour system but it's actually treason against the king not to partake at all

No wonder the American colonies rebelled.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:41

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

Russia published yesterday their new history book for high school students. The only one that is legal to use in the country going forward. Our national broadcasting company Yle obtained a copy and found it to be full of some rather inventive propaganda.

Original article: https://yle.fi/a/74-20047953
Journalist: Erkka Mikkonen

Yle.fi posted:

This is the new history book that teaches Russian children propaganda about Nato-Finland and Ukraine

Russia has adopted a new history book that goes hard on their official version of truth. In it, Nato-Finland has broken its promises to Russia, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine is possibly preventing the destruction of all civilization.

Russia is aiming to raise its children to be loyal soldiers for Vladimir Putin. The country's government has leashed the educational instution to the purpose of shoring up its grip on power. Yesterday, on the 1st of September, a new book aimed at high school aged Russian students went into service. It covers the country's history from the year 1945 to modern times.

The book is the only one approved by the government for 11th graders, or in other words roughly 17 year old students. The book explains among other things the "truth" about Putin's war of invasion, and Finland's Nato membership. Yle compared the book to Finnish text books currently in use. For this comparison we used Otava's Forum History 2 and Forum Civics 3 books.

What does the book say about Russia's relationship with the west?

"The West's obsession is trying to shake Russia's internal structures. [...] Because of this, open russophobia has been supported by the West in former Soviet states. [...] The ultimate goals are not a secret: they are the destruction of Russia, and the stealing of its resources."

What does the book say about the causes of the war?

"Kiev reported trying to obtain nuclear weapons. The goal of getting into Nato was written into the country's constitution. [...] Kiev declared the reclamation of Crimea as its number one goal.

If Ukraine had joined Nato, it would have provoked an attack in Crimea or Donbass, forcing Russia into an open war with all Nato countries. This would have been the end of all civilization. 'Ultimately, this is a question of life and death.' -- Russia's President's speech, 24.2.2022"

How does the book say the war is being waged?

"Our soldiers have a categorical ban in all circumstances on firing at populated areas. Ukraine's armed forces are using their own citizens as hostages and human shields. No army in the history of the world has ever used tactics this cruel. Make your own conclusions about 'Ukraine's new military tactics'!"

What does the book say about Finland joining Nato?

"In 2023, the historically independent Finland joined Nato. Finland got its independence through the acts of Bolsheviks in 1918, and retained its independence in 1945 by promising to remain neutral."

How do western sanctions affect Russia?

"Russia withstood the attack, and quickly adapted to the new circumstances. Our farming sector is breaking all records by showing results and capabilities never seen in the history of the Tsar or the Soviet Union. This is the precise thing, high school graduates, which will give you the opportunity to achieve fast success as adults in business, production and science."

War heroes are praised with soaring words
The Russian opus deals heavily with the country's illegal war of invasion, which it purely calls a "special military operation". The book introduces 16 fighters and volunteers who Russia has lifted up as their heroes.

"Their daily acts of heroism in Russia's millenium long chronicle join the heroic acts of millions of their predecessors. This has always been the case in our country's history, and it will be. Always."

Ukrainian lands are presented as part of Russia

At the end of the book is a map.

In that map, in addition to Crimea, which Russia has illegally stolen for itself, the partially occupied areas of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zhaporizhia have been marked as Russia's national lands. In recent times Ukraine has succeeded in liberating some of the areas which Russia illegally took for itself. Kherson was liberated in November of 2022.

The book does not hide its aims
The book openly says that its most important aim is to increase the patriotic love of its 11th grade readers. The decision to only allow one official book is explained by the need to fight against Western propaganda. The book claims that previous school books, published with Western funding, twisted Russian history.

"Our group consciousness has been infected with pure filth, lies about our history", the book claims.

The writer is known for his claims of Karelian mass graves
The author of the book, which was written and published very quickly, is named as Putin's right hand man, Vladimir Medinski. Medinski is the chair of the Russian Military History Society, and has previously served as the Minister of Culture. He was also leading the country's delegation in the ultimately fruitless peace negotiations conducted in February 2022.

In Finland Medinski is known for the excavations he led in Karelia, at the Sandarmoh mass graves. In the investigation the aim was to shift blame for Russia's war crimes on Finland. And now Medinski is leading a project to give the only accepted version of history to 11th grade students.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 14:56

Raskolnikov2089: Nov 3, 2006; Schizzy to the matic

Samovar posted:

That's... A pretty good summary of the kakocracy that results from fascism.

I stole it from Umberto Eco

# ? Sep 2, 2023 15:03

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Looks like sanctions and other measures aimed at constraining what POCCNR can do absolutely cannot be removed for another 50 years at this rate.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 15:12

wet_goods: Jun 21, 2004; I'M BAAD!

HonorableTB posted:

I'm assuming you know this zone, but for anyone who doesn't, Russia burned Moscow in the War of 1812 to deny Napoleon's Grand Armee winter quarters and supplies, forcing him to march back home in disgrace in the middle of the coldest winter Europe had seen in generations with a freezing, starving, diseased, dying army that bled casualties by the kilometer as it was continually harassed by the Russian light infantry and cavalry doing hit and run maneuvers

The solid thick green line represents the strength of the Grand Armee in manpower as it marched east. The much thinner orange line represents the retreat from Moscow and the number of men still left in the army at each point.

Putin thinks that this is applicable to Ukraine and does not seem to realize that the Grand Armee in this analogy is his own military

The original version of that chart is considered to be one of the best graphics of all time because of how many degrees of information it provided in a single graphic.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/charles-minard-cartography-infographics-history

# ? Sep 2, 2023 15:25

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

wet_goods posted:

The original version of that chart is considered to be one of the best graphics of all time because of how many degrees of information it provided in a single graphic.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/charles-minard-cartography-infographics-history

When I worked at the local University, a guy on my hallway had a print of that original graphic on his office door. drat near every time I passed by it, I had to stop and look at it, because it was just so fascinating. It really is so well done and dense with information.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 15:32

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

wet_goods posted:

The original version of that chart is considered to be one of the best graphics of all time because of how many degrees of information it provided in a single graphic.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/charles-minard-cartography-infographics-history

You can buy a poster on Edward Tufte�s site, also check out his books n poo poo, he�s cool

https://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/posters

Check out that cosmonaut�s �HISTORIC VISUAL DIARY OF SPACEFLIGHT: CYCLOGRAM� hoo boy it�s sweet

# ? Sep 2, 2023 15:54

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

https://apnews.com/article/sweden-russia-iran-belarus-nobel-6f042c62945fc07e60ef828bd0263ffb

Perfidious Swedes!

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:19

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

But, how can they then get the peace prize?

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:21

Molothecat: Jul 25, 2007; Wrath, hate, pain, and death!

Rust Martialis posted:

Blaming Stalin for any of that indifference is... odd.

yeah, very odd you'd besmirch the good name of Stalin

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:23

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Karate Bastard posted:

But, how can they then get the peace prize?

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:24

neato burrito: Aug 25, 2002; bitch better have my chex mix

Zhud

Czud

Chzud?

Just spitballing here.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:26

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Molothecat posted:

yeah, very odd you'd besmirch the good name of Stalin

There's plenty of poo poo to throw at Uncle Joe without making stuff up, seriously.

That C-SPAN video actually contradicts the poster completely from his own source. The interesting point the second speaker makes is that bombing the camps would have had little to no effect at all - only actually liberating the camps faster could have saved lives. I'd never seen that particular argument put forward.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:27

Molothecat: Jul 25, 2007; Wrath, hate, pain, and death!

Rust Martialis posted:

There's plenty of poo poo to throw at Uncle Joe without making stuff up, seriously.

That C-SPAN video actually contradicts the poster completely from his own source. The interesting point the second speaker makes is that bombing the camps would have had little to no effect at all - only actually liberating the camps faster could have saved lives. I'd never seen that particular argument put forward.

I said I'm glad you're here to protect the good name of dictators. Welcome to the thread!

fake edit: glad there's finally a Stalin expert!

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:28

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Molothecat posted:

I said I'm glad you're here to protect the good name of dictators. Welcome to the thread!

It's a thankless job but some has to do it

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:29

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 29, 2024 14:02

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

I point out the guy was wrong about something and suddenly I'm Defending Stalin? When did pointing out someone was posting bullshit become wrong?

Stalin was a piece of poo poo, but the OP was still making poo poo up. Deal with it already.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 16:36

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

«‹›1431 »