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I do know I did a Nova playthrough, but I remember next to nothing. Nova only keeps in touch via comms I think. But there was one memorable moment, it's finale. Iirc, Tosh tries to kill Raynor via vodoo doll but it does nothing, then Nova offs him. But it turns out the vodoo doll was somehow linked to Tychus?? who suffered some wounds. I remember this for the quite racist undertones.
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Aug 27, 2023 10:39
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Numbus26 posted:Something I want to talk about now that we've seen it, Spectres (and Ghosts) are very effective at neutering defense missions with the 'cloaking costs no energy' upgrade. Most notably the Dig—the Protoss on that mission send no detectors after you, so you can just have a small number of perma-cloaked Spectres/Ghosts standing on the ramps leading up to your base, and the Protoss will mill about for the entire mission trying to get in—the only threats are the flying waves and cliff-climbing Colossi. I'll have a few words on this after Nova's map. There is an incredibly stupid balance difference between the two units relates to this that will become apparent.
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Aug 27, 2023 11:07
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From now on, if I'm not wrong, Tosh should also regale us with music in the cantina, at regular times.
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Aug 27, 2023 19:12
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you are wrong
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Aug 27, 2023 19:49
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No they said "should regale," as in "morally ought to regale." Tosh is a bad man and so will not sing to us, but had he been a good man, he would fill our ears with song.
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Aug 27, 2023 21:21
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Horner's speech about the people they freed is quite a contrast with how uptight he is about Tychus being a convict.
Alpha3KV fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Aug 28, 2023 |
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Aug 27, 2023 23:51
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These are the "right kind" of convicts, Tychus isn't. Horner's basically being classist.
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Aug 28, 2023 00:27
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They're also not on his ship, whereas Tychus is. It's a lot easier to feel compassion for people when they're nebulous ideas instead of someone you have to look at.
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Aug 28, 2023 03:12
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Also, most people generally don't lump the political prisoners that Matt is referring to in with the robbers and murderers like tychus.
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Aug 28, 2023 03:16
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These two screenshots in sequence immediately made me think of this: 
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Aug 28, 2023 06:06
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idonotlikepeas posted:These two screenshots in sequence immediately made me think of this: "EVIL! EEEEVIL!"
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Aug 29, 2023 01:21
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Incidentally, I REALLY want us to finally do the Train Robbery mission before proceeding elsewhere, because I'm itching to get to some of the unlocks in that mission chain -- in particular so I can viciously complain about one of them.
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Aug 29, 2023 02:13
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Unit Spotlight: Spectre Overview:
Abilities  Cloak
At the very least, those abilities are good. Cloak is always handy, and a surprising number of missions don't send out detection with attack waves.  Ultrasonic Pulse
 Psionic Lash
Like I get the idea! The game builds up Spectre as these incredibly powerful super-Ghosts, so they have an ability that's effectively a mini Yamato Cannon on an infantry unit! The problem is that without Cellular Reactor this burns 75% of a Spectre's energy. And while Reactor would technically let you fire off two in a row, you'd have to sit and wait for each Spectre to slowly build up that extra 150 energy. Even with the Cloak upgrade, which is effectively mandatory for this unless you want to have barely any cloak time left after firing it, it has the issue of just... not being that good? Like, yeah, sure, you can burst down a high priority target, but unlike an actual Battlecruiser the Spectre has abilities beyond nuking. For an identical energy cost you could use Ultrasonic Pulse three times instead and chain stun them and any nearby enemies for 12 seconds, giving the rest of your army more than enough time to kill everything. As an extra kick in the pants, the Ghost's main ability, Snipe, deals 45 damage for 25 energy. Meaning they can deal 270 damage instead, and can do so instantly and can spread damage as needed.  Tac Nuke Strike
Armory Upgrades  Psionic Lash
For obvious reasons. Remedius Medical Systems recommends limiting this training to Spectres who have an exceptionally high opinion of their superior officers.  Nyx-Class Cloaking Module
An upgrade that both jacks up a Spectre's survivability by a ton and lets them use their entire reserve on Ultrasonic Pulse. Unless you're directly attacking an enemy base there usually isn't a lot of detection floating around, so this pretty much makes them immortal to all but AoE damage on a visible target right next to them. Less useful when pushing, since enemy bases are littered with static defense, but those are all Armored anyways so Spectres can take them down fast. This also opens up a good number of cheese strats in earlier missions. Field Manual Artwork 
BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 3, 2023 |
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Aug 29, 2023 14:40
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Redeye Flight posted:Incidentally, I REALLY want us to finally do the Train Robbery mission before proceeding elsewhere, because I'm itching to get to some of the unlocks in that mission chain -- in particular so I can viciously complain about one of them. Also Horner's been waiting entirely too long, and I really want to see what the deal is with the Diamondback.
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Aug 29, 2023 14:47
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I actually played that chain very early in my last playthrough. Let me tell you, when your heaviest armor is the diamondback, you have no siege tanks and no flying vision, assaulting uphill into siege tanks is hilariously brutal to your infantry.
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Aug 29, 2023 15:13
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If you check out the size comparison to a Marine in a power armor, Specters are loving huge - they're only a head shorter than a fella walking around in a giant robot suit. Absolutely enormous lads.
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Aug 29, 2023 16:53
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Felinoid posted:Also Horner's been waiting entirely too long, and I really want to see what the deal is with the Diamondback. The Diamondback actually isn't the one I have words about, either! Though I do have things I could say.
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Aug 29, 2023 17:09
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Covert 3.5: Ghost of a Chance Video: Ghost of a Chance  It's more in-character for Jim to fall for this, really.   This must really burn Tosh, getting so close to saving all the other Spectres only for Raynor to flip after talking to a cute girl for 30 seconds.    Join me there and we can shut it down for good. Uploading tactical data now. If I played this mission through the Archives it would start me here, which is why I had to reload a save.     Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand there's the rub with these split missions: the narrative will retroactively change itself to ensure that the player always makes the right call. Side with Tosh? Nova was lying, all Spectres are willing volunteers. Side with Nova? Tosh is now using a psi indoctrinator to make Spectres, which sure as hell doesn't sound nice! Now, a better written game could make some good use out of this! Make it so that Tosh is all buddy-buddy if you side with him, but leave some sinister undertones to it all if you play through Nova's side on a repeat playthrough! The problem is that this will never, ever be mentioned again and Tosh is 100% in Raynor's camp after Breakout. Also, we don't even know if it is a 'Psi-Indoctrinator,' considering our source is a mind-wiped, brainwashed Dominion spook that has a vested interest in keeping us on her side! For all we know, it could actually be an, I dunno, a Psi-Sauna that Tosh sends new Spectres to for some R&R.        Let's get this party started.   Compared to Breakout, Nova's side is a more straightforward no-build mission. The mission is split into three sections, with each giving me a fixed group of units. Nova herself has the same bulk and perma-cloak as Tosh, but her gun is slightly weaker and slower to compensate for actually having an army.  Just like Tosh, Nova's spells will slowly open up. Her first is Snipe, letting her instantly take out any infantry on the map. It's cooldown based instead of energy, but that's because Nova doesn't get Consumption to keep her topped off.    Up ahead is a Missile Turret giving vision over the low ground. If I tried to walk Nova over she'd get shot to pieces before she could make it past.  So I have to take care of it with my normal forces.  First off is a single Bunker. I pre-stim my Marines and let the Medics heal them up, the fight won't last long enough for it to time out and it'll give my Marines maximum survivability.   And now the Turret itself.  As a nice touch, Tosh's forces use orange instead of the standard Dominion red.   I won't actually be using those units for the rest of this section. I just find the mission more fun when sticking to Nova as much as I can, you know?  Two Marauders and a single Goliath. Unlike Tosh who could just chain stun them into oblivion, Nova will have to snipe the Marauders one at a time then kill the Goliath normally.  Good thing there's no detection here.  Two Marauders and a Firebat backed by two Turrets.    However, Snipe outranges their vision range, so I can just poke them down.  This Turret is important to kill, since right after this Nova gets her second spell.  The ability to forcibly control enemy units. We're the good guys!  Unlike a Dark Archon, I can only have one unit Dominated at a time. If I want a second, I have to either break control or kill them myself.  Do you think they're aware of what they're doing?  Is a part of them screaming, a prisoner in their own body, forced to watch as they cut down their own allies?  Who gives a poo poo, they're baddies!  I take a moment to move my dominated tank a bit to the left.  And here's the bonus. Each section has a few Spectres running around, each one killed gives an extra 5K credits. That's what the radar dish icon of Nova is for, it reveals all Spectres on the map.  They don't have detection and die in a single Snipe.   There's number 2.  And the Jorium is guarded by two Battlecruisers. Normally you'd run the Marines in, maybe Dominate one of the BCs to help out. Moving the tank puts it just in range of one of the Missile Turrets.   Their job done, I release the Siege Tank from control. I'm not killing them, they will live with what they've done.  I then steal a Battlecruiser and blitz down the Jorium.   Nova herself becomes invulnerable between the target falling and a cutscene starting, so there's no risk of getting sniped at the last second and losing anyways.       Three Marines, a Marauder, and a Diamondback, backed by a Raven.  I Dominate the Raven to steal their detection-  Then accidentally get it killed by Marines.  Oh well, Nova can clear out the rest.  And see if they can't get this gate open! Time's a-wasting. My forces for this section consist of 8 Reapers, two Siege Tanks, and a Raven. Don't pay any attention to how I specifically don't have Ravens unlocked. Hell, depending on your mission order you might not even have Siege Tanks.  The door doohicky is guarded by a few Marines and a Siege Tank.  So I launch a Seeker Missile, which slowly homes in on the target and deals 100 damage.  It can't kill a tank and the splash wasn't enough to kill a Marine.  So I instead drop some Auto-Turrets. They have 10 DPS, 150 health, 1 armor, and last for three minutes.    Bunker with a Turret right behind it.  Tanks.   Oh look, an enemy Siege Tank with perfect positioning to cover its allies!  Yoink.  There's a high ground Turret nearby.  So I have the Reapers take care of it.   Normally, that Spectre would drop a nuke on my head the moment it sees any enemy unit.  However, he can't see me.  Oh look, a glowy thing!  But first, there's a Spectre out where I can't reach him.  I almost lose my Raven, but use a Point Defense Drone to block every missile that comes my way.  Then actually lose it to an Auto Turret while throwing down my own Auto Turret.  To add insult to injury, the Turret can't even get the kill.  I go grab the glowy thing.   Should just... take a f... there!Where Breakout just gives you four nukes and tells you to have fun, here I have to steal them from Tosh.  Now, I could send my Reapers over to finish off that Spectre, there's a back path over to him.  But I am nothing if not needlessly complicated.  So I steal a Viking, a transforming flier we first saw in Liberation Day.  Use the Viking to give vision for my Tanks to take out that Missile Turret.   Then move them to take out the Auto Turret while the Viking changes mode on the high ground.  I don't even have to do this. I'm just reloading my Tosh save as soon as this is over so missing some cash means nothing.  There are a whole bunch of dudes in front of the Terrazine.  Not anymore.      That Psi-Indoctrinator's heavily guarded. Nuking it's gonna be our best bet.   I get my forces immediately for the final section, and they're... all units I don't have unlocked yet. Huh.  Banshees are dedicated anti-ground fliers, to go with the anti-air Vikings.  There's a convenient tank off to the side.  I leave it here to shell that Bunker.  Only to lose it to a Goliath that wandered over.  I move a Viking over to give vision on another tank.  I'd hoped that it'd be able to get a few shots off before dying with the Viking acting as a spotter.  The Spectre's anti-Armored damage put a stop to that.  I clear out the Marines in the burned out Bunker and the Goliath that took out my first tank.  There's a second nuke silo here, but it's guarded by three Auto-Turrets with a Raven patrolling back and forth.  Nova outranges Auto-Turrets.  And then I steal the Raven before getting the nuke.  I try to get clever and Snipe this Spectre, then duck out of detection range so the Goliath can't hit me.  Eeeeeeeeeeeexcept I ended up getting close enough for them to notice me, causing the Spectre to nail Nova with an Ultrasonic Pulse.   I get these two Turrets burning and press on. Remember that.  Because I immediately forgot and sent my stolen Raven down before they died.   Thankfully there's a second just over here.  I just have to snipe these mercenaries guarding it.    Past that are these suspiciously damaged barricades.  That's because it turns out Tosh is also messing around with the zerg!   A 3/3 Ultralisk is now on the loose.  Once the barricade is broken, the Ultra automatically walks up the ramp.  Directly into a small army of War Pigs.  The Ultralisk wins. Normally it would stop here, but I can poke it with Nova to push it into range of more things.  And there's a conveniently alone Thor hanging around.  Mr. Raven, I no longer have need of your services.  Just bomb that Spectre before you die.   Also show off what happens when certain Spectres can actually see you.  This mission is the only time you have to deal with enemy nukes that use the tiny red dot as a marker.  Anyways, new toy.  Thors are big, bulky, and hit hard.  Their active ability, Barrage, deals 500 damage to a target while stunning them for the duration.  There's not one, but two Spectres by the Psi-Indoctrinator. However, there's that last one just north so I can't just nuke the whole thing and end the mission here.  So I aim my nuke to kill all the defenders while leaving the Indoctrinator untouched.   Send the Thor out to finish off the last Spectre.  Then take out the Indoctrinator.     Many Shots, Two Kills - Kill 2 Spectres with Reapers in the "Ghost of a Chance" mission on Normal difficulty. This mission doesn't even get a token ending cutscene. It just cuts to the results screen. BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Sep 2, 2023 04:28
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BisbyWorl posted:This mission doesn't even get a token ending cutscene. It just cuts to the results screen. Because clearly, you done chose wrong.
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Sep 2, 2023 05:16
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I'll be honest, I like Ghost of a Chance less than Breakout. Being a more conventional no-build mission actually makes it less interesting, and it feels less puzzley despite both of them basically being a series of unit-shaped puzzles to unlock, simply because you have more options. Or at least I feel like that's the case. Breakout's formula definitely isn't one you want to overrely on, something Dawn of War learned the hard way, but it's completely unique in SC2 and that makes it feel more special.
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Sep 2, 2023 05:27
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I liked this mission more on the first playthrough, but I prefer Tosh for later playthroughs. It feels quicker to blitz, even though the gameplay is boring.
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Sep 2, 2023 08:29
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Good thing we averted that truly dark timeline.
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Sep 2, 2023 09:40
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The presence of a specific unit in this mission pisses me off because it completely contradicts the stated timeline of the campaign. I honestly don't even care about the units you get access to that you don't have unlocked yet - that can easily be handwaved by "Nova gave them to you", and they're not unlocked by this mission because she just gave you the hardware, not the schematics to build them yourself. But there's something that's not supposed to even exist yet, and it's just... sitting out there in the open!
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Sep 2, 2023 10:02
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Hey now, you might be playing this mission late enough that it's been created (if you deliberately put off this mission that gives you loads of money and isn't dependent on upgrades for as long as possible).
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Sep 2, 2023 10:16
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Here's the thing. That Psi Indoctrinator? There's nothing to tell us Tosh doesn't still have it in his route. He simply agrees not to use it; a concession he's willing to make because Raynor didn't betray him, and has worked with him in good faith this whole time. That's what I was talking about before. That talk with Swann, where Raynor says "Tosh can only train volunteers; that's the deal." I remain convinced he's not saying "that's the deal" as in "that's how the process works", he's saying that he made a deal with Tosh that he trains volunteers, and doesn't use the Psi Indoctrinator. And that line with Swann is the only potential evidence that the Indoctrinator doesn't exist on Tosh's route. That's it. Hanson herself claims Nova lied to us after Tosh's mission... and while I won't spoil what she says in this version, I'll say this: She doesn't contradict herself here. This Split Choice is nothing more than Nova lying to us, and us having the option to fall for it and betray someone who has hired us in good faith for a few jobs, supported us in getting the jobs done, and offered us continued support in our War against Mengsk. Tosh's behavior here isn't that of some evil psychotic mastermind. It's that of a man who has been betrayed and is under attack. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Sep 2, 2023 |
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Sep 2, 2023 11:45
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Compared to the other mission split that we'll probably be seeing soon, this one at least has its retroactive continuity set up so that both routes can be true and it's just a matter of which side you believe and how they react. It's entirely possible that Tosh is happily mind-wiping captives when you work with him - at least until Raynor commits him to not doing that - and that Nova is just using you to take out her personal targets when you side with her. You just don't get to see those sides of them unless you play the other. Whichever person you side with will come through on what they're offering. Honestly it's a better way to do the "whichever side you pick, you're right" thing than the other decision split. But we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
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Sep 2, 2023 13:03
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honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the 'psi-indoctrinator' was just a facility to stabilize specters, not brainwash em. Give em a place to blow off steam, work through any 'violent tendencies' from the spectre-creation process without any chance of causing actual damage. Something I imagine the dominion could've done but since they kept getting their memories back they just scrapped the program. (And blamed the specters like it was their fault the program didn't work out.)
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Sep 2, 2023 13:12
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BisbyWorl posted:
Complaining about getting dominated by a leggy blonde in a skintight suit, smh.
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Sep 2, 2023 13:33
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Kith posted:The presence of a specific unit in this mission pisses me off because it completely contradicts the stated timeline of the campaign. I honestly don't even care about the units you get access to that you don't have unlocked yet - that can easily be handwaved by "Nova gave them to you", and they're not unlocked by this mission because she just gave you the hardware, not the schematics to build them yourself. But there's something that's not supposed to even exist yet, and it's just... sitting out there in the open! I was going to post this too. There's some in Tosh's mission as well, iirc. Notable!
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Sep 2, 2023 13:41
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Tenebrais posted:Compared to the other mission split that we'll probably be seeing soon, this one at least has its retroactive continuity set up so that both routes can be true and it's just a matter of which side you believe and how they react. It's entirely possible that Tosh is happily mind-wiping captives when you work with him - at least until Raynor commits him to not doing that - and that Nova is just using you to take out her personal targets when you side with her. You just don't get to see those sides of them unless you play the other. Whichever person you side with will come through on what they're offering. I kinda think the other split decision can be similarly justified, but it's a lot more tenuous.
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Sep 2, 2023 13:43
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Natural 20 posted:Complaining about getting dominated by a leggy blonde in a skintight suit, smh. Knowing they're actual fash kind of kills the fun. You know, it is completely on-brand for Nova to object to Tosh using mind control, while employing mind control.
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Sep 2, 2023 14:43
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In some ways it feels a little weird that Tosh, noted fugitive with all his friends in jail, is doing a full scale facility assault complete with AI Raynor throwing hordes of people directly to their deaths while Nova, noted assassin with complete access to the Terran Dominion Forces, is doing a stealhy no build mission.
Torchlighter fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Sep 2, 2023 |
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Sep 2, 2023 15:23
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BisbyWorl posted:
Well, now we know why Raynor sided with her BlazetheInferno posted:Here's the thing. Also, you know, he says he will only work with volunteers to the raiders. There is nothing saying that he isn't just making spectres and brainwashing them into obeying him on the side, as long as he just keeps that side hustle away from the raiders.
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Sep 2, 2023 15:25
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Arcanuse posted:honestly IIRC the canon says that psi indoctrinators were a thing and they were more brutal version of the "social reconditioning" they give to convict marines. If you need to basically lobotomize someone to stabilize them, maybe don't expose them to the chemicals in the first place?
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Sep 2, 2023 15:27
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Xarn posted:IIRC the canon says that psi indoctrinators were a thing and they were more brutal version of the "social reconditioning" they give to convict marines. If you need to basically lobotomize someone to stabilize them, maybe don't expose them to the chemicals in the first place? That assumes you care about the people as anything other than specialised weapons that you don't want pointed at you.
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Sep 2, 2023 15:31
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even completely ignoring the writing, tosh's mission seems more fun so that's another reason it's the correct choice
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Sep 2, 2023 18:05
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"If you and your spectres are as bloodthirsty as it sounds, you're as much of a threat as he ever was. I'll be seeing you real soon" lmao. Can't come up with a plausible justification so just stampede past it as quickly as possible
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Sep 2, 2023 18:59
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Arcanuse posted:honestly Yeah. There's a fairly decent chance that it's just... called that, and has nothing to do with a brainwashing process at all. And even if it did, there's no evidence that Tosh is forcing people into it - it could very much be a voluntary process that's fully explained before they get to that step. There's absolutely no proof that Nova has been telling the truth at any point throughout this entire fiasco.
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Sep 2, 2023 19:50
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Is there any kind of achievement tracking or anything that suggests what percentage of players took which side for this choice?
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Sep 2, 2023 19:52
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 21:10 |
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'Psi-Indoctrination' is actually just where they copy your IDs and take your I-9 see also the Void Corruption Womb, where they outline the Spectre health benefits and 401K
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Sep 2, 2023 19:54
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