|
Lemniscate Blue posted:Clicky for hugey (read the whole thing, it's good): lol at the guy saying europeans invented racism the asian form is next level powerful
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 14:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 15:30 |
|
|
Yeah, the Aztecs were horrible racists before Cortes arrived. So were the Haudenosee.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 15:03
|
|
|
The X-man cometh posted:Yeah, the Aztecs were horrible racists before Cortes arrived. So were the Haudenosee. It's the same brainworms that tell tankies 'Russia Good because US Bad' when the truth is both have the capacity to be monstrous
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 15:06
|
|
|
Murgos posted:There’s plenty of evidence of homo-sapiens sapiens hunting and eating other hominids too. Probably don’t need to single out poor misunderstood erectus here. Oh, my point was not to specifically disparage H. Erectus, it was to point out that the human ancestors spent hundreds of thousands of years living in the margins, while H. Erectus were much more numerous, held the good places, and probably hunted our ancestors at least occasionally.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 15:18
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:lol at the guy saying europeans invented racism Being born in Africa and raised in various African and Asian countries, I can confirm this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 15:37
|
|
|
Mzuri posted:Being born in Africa and raised in various African and Asian countries, I can confirm this. Don't you know that Africans and Asians lived in peaceful harmony for centuries until Europeans showed up in the 1700s and taught them to be racists?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 17:40
|
|
|
The X-man cometh posted:Yeah, the Aztecs were horrible racists before Cortes arrived. So were the Haudenosee. Dude, not cool! Before European contact and colonization the First Nations people lived in absolute peace and tranquillity with nature and each other. (Official dogma at the FN school board I am employed by) Just don't ask them why warriors were necessary before contact.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
Blistex posted:Dude, not cool! Before European contact and colonization the First Nations people lived in absolute peace and tranquillity with nature and each other. If any of them eat avocado toast, that would be a great time to explain why avocados exist and how they became a staple crop in Central America.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 17:52
|
|
|
Yeah a lot of contemporary views of native peoples seem kind of patronizing instead of acknowledging that they had complex societies complete with political, diplomatic, and territorial disputes that frequently resulted in war. To say nothing of how the Aztecs were absolute bastards who were rivaled in their blood thirst only by the Spaniards.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:08
|
|
|
By all accounts I've seen, the Aztecs were especially not very nice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:10
|
|
|
Kind of nuts that the Incan empire spanned all of South America despite the fact they never used the wheel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:11
|
|
|
Left handedness. Uncanny valley or something more sinister?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:53
|
|
|
orange juche posted:By all accounts I've seen, the Aztecs were especially not very nice. That's usually how you outlive the neighbors.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:53
|
|
|
psydude posted:Yeah a lot of contemporary views of native peoples seem kind of patronizing instead of acknowledging that they had complex societies complete with political, diplomatic, and territorial disputes that frequently resulted in war. To say nothing of how the Aztecs were absolute bastards who were rivaled in their blood thirst only by the Spaniards. It sort of parallels the situation in ukraine. That people think Ukraine and Russia had no agency and it was just big bad America making them fight. Sort of ironic how saying first Nations culture prior to colonization was a Pocahontas ideal, which is racist in itself. What I am trying to say is Ukrainian need US Tomahawks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
joat mon posted:Left handedness. Uncanny valley or something more sinister? It's always sinister.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 18:59
|
|
|
The other problem with First Nation's studies and histories is how drastically their world changed after Europeans arrived in Latin America. Some Historian estimate that 80% of the indigenous people were killed before Jamestown was even discovered. There are some good arguments made that alone so drastically altered societies, that it's like comparing Iron Age to Stone Age- not in capabilities, but the sheer amount of change that causes. I've seen some videos of First Nations people presenting some of their oral histories, and in some they've mentioned that the idea of ritualized warfare, like counting coup, and the taking of opposing tribe members to integrate were later aspects adopted solely because they didn't have the numbers for the 'traditional' warfare we are mentally accustomed to.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
Mederlock posted:It's the same brainworms that tell tankies 'Russia Good because US Bad' when the truth is both have the capacity to be monstrous Could take it next level & go Saddam good & Kuwait was no angel because US bad, & call your podcast Blowback.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:15
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:If any of them eat avocado toast, that would be a great time to explain why avocados exist and how they became a staple crop in Central America. This sounds interesting and is just vague enough for cursory searching to only return bad listicles, care to elaborate?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
Everyone should listen to the first ~5 minutes of the first episode of Blowback for H. John Benjamin doing Saddam Hussein and then delete it from your playlist.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
gently caress homo erectus imo. hope that doesn't ruffle any feathers
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
kalel posted:gently caress homo erectus imo. hope that doesn't ruffle any feathers 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:30
|
|
|
Tuna-Fish posted:Oh, my point was not to specifically disparage H. Erectus, it was to point out that the human ancestors spent hundreds of thousands of years living in the margins, while H. Erectus were much more numerous, held the good places, and probably hunted our ancestors at least occasionally. The hypothesis that uncanny valley developed so that Homo sapiens could identify homo erectus before they got eaten by sneaky infiltrators into their close proximity like John’s carpenters the Thing doesn’t make any sense when the people hunting Homo sapiens is other Homo sapiens for just as long. The uncanny valley effect just seems to be more simply explained by that we use our faces to convey a vast amount of information to each other and computer animation is still poo poo at conveying all the appropriate information.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:41
|
|
|
Bethesda seems to have gotten it right
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
stackofflapjacks posted:This sounds interesting and is just vague enough for cursory searching to only return bad listicles, care to elaborate? The avocado, as I'm sure you well know, has an enormous seed. That seed is designed to pass whole through the digestive tract of large herbivorous animals. Mainly the giant ground sloth, which was hunted to extinction by prehistoric South Americans. The avocado tree was wholly dependant on the giant ground sloth and other extinct megafauna for seed dispersal, and by all rights ought to be extinct, had not those same humans found the fruit of the tree to be useful to them and took over the cultivation of the avocado. So, the magical natives of the Americas did what humans did anywhere else in the world. They irrevocably altered the ecosystems of the places they entered, rendering extinct some species and drastically increasing the survival fitness of others.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 20:37
|
|
|
Murgos posted:The uncanny valley effect just seems to be more simply explained by that we use our faces to convey a vast amount of information to each other and computer animation is still poo poo at conveying all the appropriate information. Right. We see faces in patterns because our brains are wired to recognize faces. It’s not parsimonious to claim that there’s a complex response happening when we see faces that look close but aren’t right. It’s not even a strong response that people have, the internet just plays it up like it’s that hole phobia.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 20:39
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:The avocado, as I'm sure you well know, has an enormous seed. That seed is designed to pass whole through the digestive tract of large herbivorous animals. Mainly the giant ground sloth, which was hunted to extinction by prehistoric South Americans. The avocado tree was wholly dependant on the giant ground sloth and other extinct megafauna for seed dispersal, and by all rights ought to be extinct, had not those same humans found the fruit of the tree to be useful to them and took over the cultivation of the avocado. So, the magical natives of the Americas did what humans did anywhere else in the world. They irrevocably altered the ecosystems of the places they entered, rendering extinct some species and drastically increasing the survival fitness of others. The Ghosts Of Evolution is an excellent pop science book on the topic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 20:51
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:Right. We see faces in patterns because our brains are wired to recognize faces. It’s not parsimonious to claim that there’s a complex response happening when we see faces that look close but aren’t right. It’s not even a strong response that people have, the internet just plays it up like it’s that hole phobia. Hole phobia? Elaborate?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 21:54
|
|
|
LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Hole phobia? Elaborate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia E: That''s a very tame example image, image search "trypophobia" if you want more of a challenge
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 21:55
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:If any of them eat avocado toast, that would be a great time to explain why avocados exist and how they became a staple crop in Central America. Giant ground sloths?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:The other problem with First Nation's studies and histories is how drastically their world changed after Europeans arrived in Latin America. Some Historian estimate that 80% of the indigenous people were killed before Jamestown was even discovered. I’ve heard people compare North America to a post apocalyptic wasteland compare to pre-contact due to the utterly insane ravages of disease after first contact.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
TK-42-1 posted:I’ve heard people compare North America to a post apocalyptic wasteland compare to pre-contact due to the utterly insane ravages of disease after first contact. It was post apocalyptic. Just not for colonizers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 22:53
|
|
|
TK-42-1 posted:I’ve heard people compare North America to a post apocalyptic wasteland compare to pre-contact due to the utterly insane ravages of disease after first contact. Sounds apt. In school, we had to read a written oral account from a Plains tribe elder (I cannot recall the specific one, unfortunately) who spoke of a creeping death, an unstoppable illness that came first as rumors, and then swept through wiping out entire clans. It sounded like a zombie story, how she described it. It gave me a new appreciation for the horror.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 23:06
|
|
|
Realistically, all of the battles of the colonization of the "New World", including American westward expansion, were already decided the second that small pox had hopped from one indigenous person to the next
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 23:06
|
|
|
Xakura posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia Fun fact! Trypophobia can trigger a strong enough reaction in people to cause epileptic seizures! Ask me how I know! On the bright side, Trypophobia can also cause you to win the title of epilepsy consultant for NASA and Microsoft.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 23:21
|
|
|
Also, fun bit of trivia, the colonization destroyed so much native culture that something as simple and ubiquitous as the macuahuitl war clubs were wiped off the face of the earth. There are no original copies left in existence, and the thought of what else was erased makes me very, very sad
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 23:39
|
|
|
SerthVarnee posted:Fun fact! Trypophobia can trigger a strong enough reaction in people to cause epileptic seizures! Were you the person that had to email nasa to let them know the fancy new telescope's photos were causing problems? Vvv hey! A real deal citizen scienterrific. B33rChiller fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Sep 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 23:44
|
|
|
Yup. That was one hell of an emotional rollercoaster ride. "Can't look at fancy space stuff...very sad." "Can apparently just casually strike up a dialogue with loving NASA...Very hyped."
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2023 23:46
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:Sounds apt. In school, we had to read a written oral account from a Plains tribe elder (I cannot recall the specific one, unfortunately) who spoke of a creeping death, an unstoppable illness that came first as rumors, and then swept through wiping out entire clans. It sounded like a zombie story, how she described it. It gave me a new appreciation for the horror. The part that opened my mind to this was someone pointing out the dates. Colonial history is kinda taught as "Columbus, ocean blue, 1492....something something something...then history starts with 13 colonies and baby America begins." Well the colonies were in the 1700s. There's hundreds of years in between there where stuff happened. Stuff that the stupid white man was both nowhere nearby to witness, and also didn't give a poo poo about anyway. Stuff like foreign diseases rampaging through an entirely new and immunologically unprepared civilization. The little bit of research I did for one class in my undergraduate went in to it more in depth via the idea of the "noble savage". Well, the "savage" nature of the indigenous Americans is because they were living (or, ya know, not-living) out the reality of what we portray on TV as Walking Dead episodes. When an estimate of like 50-70% percent of the population just up and loving dies within a generation or two then, yeah, society is going to have some fucky wucky stuff going on. Then your rear end in a top hat neighbor comes over and says "Hey neat house you got here, only two people living in this entire house so we're just gonna take it all and you can go live in the garage"
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2023 00:27
|
|
|
The scary thought is that that was practically unavoidable. Even if European explorers had been completely benign smallpox it would have still spread. The only way to avoid that would have been to prevent any contact to Americas from Europe, Asia or Africa. We would have had to wait until vaccine exists, then vaccinate the whole population in advance. And that would only cover smallpox.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2023 00:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 15:30 |
|
|
Saukkis posted:The scary thought is that that was practically unavoidable. Even if European explorers had been completely benign smallpox it would have still spread. The only way to avoid that would have been to prevent any contact to Americas from Europe, Asia or Africa. We would have had to wait until vaccine exists, then vaccinate the whole population in advance. And that would only cover smallpox. Also, germ theory would not exist for over 300 years.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2023 01:01
|
|