Star Wars TV Megathread: No more Karga, just Greef.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Wars TV Megathread: No more Karga, just Greef.

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

Giant Tourtiere posted:

(I also really hope they're not pulling the trigger on the 'Palpatine and the Empire were just trying to get their galaxy ready to fight a horrible invasion' thing because that was one of the worst directions the EU went in. Just no.)

I could see Thrawn, as depicted in Rebels, doing that. I don't think he would be impressed by Palpatine's cackling space wizardry as an end goal, and could have been using the machinery of the empire for some other purpose.

I don't think there's any credibility that Shiv was secretly doing more than being Sithy

It would also give them something to do in the future other than have more sith make an even bigger Death Star

# ? Sep 1, 2023 14:03

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# ? May 27, 2024 19:12

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

Parkingtigers posted:

Great, now I gotta picture a Yoda and a Salacious Crumb loving. Just imagine the noise�

It�s drowned out by this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcod8IS214

# ? Sep 1, 2023 14:36

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

stev posted:

Has the current canon got anyone else who was taught to be force sensitive rather than being born that way?

Closest we have was Moff Gideon attempting to infuse the Force into clones via blood transfusion from Grogu

"My clones were finally going to be perfect. The best parts of me but improved by adding the one thing I never had. The Force. I was isolating the potential to wield the Force, and incorporating it into an unstoppable army. And you smothered them before they could draw their first breath."

# ? Sep 1, 2023 15:22

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

Stegosnaurlax posted:

Maybe they've been rescuing space whales, like Sea Shepherd

Egotistically, grossly incompetently and destroying their own ships?

# ? Sep 1, 2023 16:36

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

I hope when they find him and he's in the dark side he says "I am no longer Ezra, I am Better than Ezra, I am Darth In the Blood"

# ? Sep 1, 2023 17:03

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

Darth Raygun

# ? Sep 1, 2023 17:05

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

Giant Tourtiere posted:

(I also really hope they're not pulling the trigger on the 'Palpatine and the Empire were just trying to get their galaxy ready to fight a horrible invasion' thing because that was one of the worst directions the EU went in. Just no.)

Well Disney is set to recreate all the worst parts of the EU, and Disney canon has been hinting at a great evil in the unknown regions for quite a while, as well as setting up both the Grysk and the Chiss with Thrawn.

# ? Sep 1, 2023 17:15

HootTheOwl: May 13, 2012; Hootin and shootin

Ezra opens his third eye and reveals himself to be the triclops prodigy of trioculos!

# ? Sep 1, 2023 19:01

Giant Tourtiere: Aug 4, 2006; TRICHER
POUR
GAGNER

maybealabia posted:

I could see Thrawn, as depicted in Rebels, doing that. I don't think he would be impressed by Palpatine's cackling space wizardry as an end goal, and could have been using the machinery of the empire for some other purpose.

I don't think there's any credibility that Shiv was secretly doing more than being Sithy

It would also give them something to do in the future other than have more sith make an even bigger Death Star

Like I agree that if they're going to continue to make new SW stories and progress the timeline (heh, "if") they absolutely need a new antagonist that isn't 'The Empire, again'. The problem for me is that they've already made the Imperials look pretty cool to the extent that you get people putting Imperial stickers on their cars or buying Darth Vader gamer chairs and I don't think it's a good idea to move any further in the direction of making the space fascists in any way sympathetic.

Thrawn as we saw him in Rebels was pretty genocide-y and brutal and I'd feel twitchy about a story that was telling us that no, we must work together with him for the greater good!

# ? Sep 1, 2023 19:33

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Maybe we're all looking at it wrong and Ezra isn't a bad guy, thrawn became a good guy and all they do is chill on the beach and smoke space weed now

# ? Sep 1, 2023 20:21

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Thrawn practicing his art appraisal skills on the poster rack at Spencers

# ? Sep 1, 2023 20:34

galenanorth: May 19, 2016

I was about to say in that case he could agree to pretend to still be bad to be a spy to find out what they're planning and he's all "I am still very bad, grr" but that was what they did with Kallus

# ? Sep 1, 2023 20:35

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

skasion posted:

Thrawn practicing his art appraisal skills on the poster rack at Spencers

He's been sobbing for a good half-hour over "Wampa in a snowstorm on Hoth" and is liquidating all his assets to buy it

# ? Sep 1, 2023 20:51

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

With nothing else to do and nobody he'd listen to being present, Ezra got into NFTs and Thrawn has spent the last ten years trying to understand the strategic value of applying slurp juices to bored wampas

# ? Sep 1, 2023 21:54

AndyElusive: Jan 7, 2007

John Wick of Dogs posted:

I hope when they find him and he's in the dark side he says "I am no longer Ezra, I am Better than Ezra, I am Darth In the Blood"

The Rise of Darth Icky.

Edit: oh a Better than Ezra joke, I get it now.

# ? Sep 1, 2023 22:04

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; I can't wait to entertain you.

Xenomrph posted:

Mild spoiler I guess? The new Ahsoka series toys are up for preorder, and one of them is �Ezra Bridger (Lothal)�, implying that he travels there at some point in the series.

That's a reference to something we already saw. Ezra circa his time on Lothal in Rebels season 4 in the hologram Sabine watched in episode 1.

# ? Sep 1, 2023 22:11

Stegosnaurlax: Apr 30, 2023

Megillah Gorilla posted:

Egotistically, grossly incompetently and destroying their own ships?

Have we been watching the same Imperial Navy, because i feel like the question mark is redundant

# ? Sep 2, 2023 01:58

Darko: Dec 23, 2004

maybealabia posted:

Savage Oppress wasn't a force user before Maul chose him as his apprentice but the night sisters may have just given him a midichlorian transfusion or whatever

You mean Dooku.

Dooku wanted a new apprentice, so he went to Dathomir to get one because Sheev also used it as an apprentice store to get Maul and he did before with Ventress. Ventress was trying to use all of this to set him up and kill him.

That planet is full of force sensitive people, especially the women, because the planet is super dark side. Savage was the best fighter in his male group and somewhat sensitive enough, so mother whatever did a witch ritual that imbued him with more force and also made him swole.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 02:07

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Given it's ezra he might claim he's jabba or lando or thrawn or something

# ? Sep 2, 2023 02:45

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

Darko posted:

You mean Dooku.

Dooku wanted a new apprentice, so he went to Dathomir to get one because Sheev also used it as an apprentice store to get Maul and he did before with Ventress. Ventress was trying to use all of this to set him up and kill him.

That planet is full of force sensitive people, especially the women, because the planet is super dark side. Savage was the best fighter in his male group and somewhat sensitive enough, so mother whatever did a witch ritual that imbued him with more force and also made him swole.

Yeah now that I think about it wasn't it actually Ventress first then Dooku then Maul

Either way he wasn't a force user until the night sister ritual, even if his race is apparently naturally forcey. He was a physical fighter and maybe used the force sort of incidentally like JarJar

# ? Sep 2, 2023 02:57

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Something to consider on the :tinfoil:

side of the "Please, please, don't insinuate the Yuuzhan Vong Are Coming";

Rey's post-ST movie is gonna be called "New Jedi Order"... :yikes:

# ? Sep 2, 2023 03:07

Darko: Dec 23, 2004

maybealabia posted:

Yeah now that I think about it wasn't it actually Ventress first then Dooku then Maul

Either way he wasn't a force user until the night sister ritual, even if his race is apparently naturally forcey. He was a physical fighter and maybe used the force sort of incidentally like JarJar

Yeah, Ventress held the tournament to be her mate where that whole clan of males did the tournament where they killed each other till it was Savage and his brother yet. They did the ritual on Opress that put all that green Force power into him and he became a wielder and bulky. If I remember correctly, it left him.when he died, too.

They're like the opposite of Mandos where their whole planet manipulates the Force to some degree, but in a weird witchy way and the males that aren't Maul.are just really bad at it in comparison to the females. Maul was an exception where he was just normal Force strong from a kid.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 03:09

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

Stegosnaurlax posted:

Have we been watching the same Imperial Navy, because i feel like the question mark is redundant

You make a good point.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 05:23

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Something to consider on the side of the "Please, please, don't insinuate the Yuuzhan Vong Are Coming";

Rey's post-ST movie is gonna be called "New Jedi Order"...

Can�t wait for Kenobi series 2 for flashbacks to the Disney take on Rogue Planet featuring a hyper de-aged Ewan McGregor and the terrifyingly youthenised face of Hayden Christensen digitally painted onto the head of a child just so they can callback to Kenobi at some point

# ? Sep 2, 2023 19:51

LinkesAuge: Sep 7, 2011

Vinylshadow posted:

Closest we have was Moff Gideon attempting to infuse the Force into clones via blood transfusion from Grogu

"My clones were finally going to be perfect. The best parts of me but improved by adding the one thing I never had. The Force. I was isolating the potential to wield the Force, and incorporating it into an unstoppable army. And you smothered them before they could draw their first breath."

Tying force power/potential to genetics would be the worst thing one can do. Not only would it lead to so many plotholes/open questions but it would also completely undermine the force itself, not to mention the uncomfortable implications, ie force users are by all measures just "superior", they are literally a "race" of super-humans/aliens. So if that ability is inheritable it leads to a very, very uncomfortable place.
The Skywalkers (and Palpatine) are obviously already problematic enough in that regard but there is at least some ambiguity left and there were at least attempts to frame it like the force "picked" this line of Skywalkers rather than making it about being an inherited trait.

PS: And yes that's why this whole Moff Gideon plot is so bad and is hopefully forgotten quickly. Star Wars is just not hard or even soft SciFi and trying to force (heh) this mystical power into a scientific frame of reference will always be a bad idea (including Midichlorians). You have to stick with a mystical interpretation and that the "force" and how it manifests is closer to greek mythology than "science" because otherwise your whole setting starts crumbling down or will just go to really weird places (and not intentionally).

# ? Sep 2, 2023 20:13

Cheesus: Oct 17, 2002; Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.; Yam Slacker

LinkesAuge posted:

PS: And yes that's why this whole Moff Gideon plot is so bad and is hopefully forgotten quickly. Star Wars is just not hard or even soft SciFi and trying to force (heh) this mystical power into a scientific frame of reference will always be a bad idea (including Midichlorians). You have to stick with a mystical interpretation and that the "force" and how it manifests is closer to greek mythology than "science" because otherwise your whole setting starts crumbling down or will just go to really weird places (and not intentionally).

But Gideon failed.

We didn't see any evidence that combining "the best of Jedi and Mandalorian" really resulted in anything meaningful.

And if what we see in Rise of Skywalker is connected, nothing Palpatine did in those subsequent years was able to scientifically game The Force. Except apparently produce a non Force welding clone have offspring that was powerful in the Force and ended rejecting Palpatine enough to change their name to honor his enemy.

I actually think "evil side tries to science and technology the Force but always fails" and "good side trusts in the Force and succeeds in unexpected ways" is a decent attribute of the general Star Wars story.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 21:22

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

The only thing we do know that connects genetics to force potential/sensitivity is at a species level. e.g. the Hutts and their resistance to the Force, Yoda and Grogu's species apparently being gifted with the force, space whales, and various other force sensitive animals

# ? Sep 2, 2023 22:30

Larryb: Oct 5, 2010

Apparently there was a Hutt Jedi back in the Legends continuity though:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Beldorion

# ? Sep 2, 2023 22:33

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

LinkesAuge posted:

PS: And yes that's why this whole Moff Gideon plot is so bad and is hopefully forgotten quickly.

I'm going with the theory that Gideon was wrong and it was never going to work.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 22:35

ungulateman: Apr 18, 2012; pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

the underlying idea of midichlorians is that they function like mitochondria do in real life, where a hostile organism ended up becoming integrated so totally into the genetics of their hosts that they are inseparable - part of the 'symbiont circle' that Obi-Wan mentions in the same movie.

the part where the characters (and the audience, sometimes) trip up is that extrapolating a natural phenomenon onto society leads the Jedi to identify the Republic as the 'host' - and this biotruthy-metaphor extends to seeing resistance to the Republic as 'unnatural' or 'cancerous'. Heck, we even see Nemik trip into this fallacy in Andor, when he decries the Empire's authoritarianism as 'unnatural' rather than making a more specific ethical point.

while the full details aren't out there, i'm fairly sure this was where George Lucas' sequel plans that were going to 'explore the microscopic world of the Force' were going: they were going to explain that midichlorians were engineered, and not a natural phenomenon, to underline the point that trusting something just because it's 'natural' is foolish.

# ? Sep 2, 2023 23:56

piL: Sep 20, 2007; (__|\\\\); Taco Defender

LinkesAuge posted:

Tying force power/potential to genetics would be the worst thing one can do. Not only would it lead to so many plotholes/open questions but it would also completely undermine the force itself, not to mention the uncomfortable implications, ie force users are by all measures just "superior", they are literally a "race" of super-humans/aliens. So if that ability is inheritable it leads to a very, very uncomfortable place.
The Skywalkers (and Palpatine) are obviously already problematic enough in that regard but there is at least some ambiguity left and there were at least attempts to frame it like the force "picked" this line of Skywalkers rather than making it about being an inherited trait.

Literally a plot point of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. It's too deep a concept to mesh well into Star Wars without a tonal shift.

ungulateman posted:

while the full details aren't out there, i'm fairly sure this was where George Lucas' sequel plans that were going to 'explore the microscopic world of the Force' were going: they were going to explain that midichlorians were engineered, and not a natural phenomenon, to underline the point that trusting something just because it's 'natural' is foolish.

I agree and I think Lucas could have been planning on telling a story of everybody connected through the force. It feels like a very mid to late 70s new age idea that would be discarded as you get into the 80s and beyond.

piL fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 3, 2023

# ? Sep 3, 2023 00:16

Servetus: Apr 1, 2010

mllaneza posted:

I'm going with the theory that Gideon was wrong and it was never going to work.

My theory is that the one Gideon clone that opened it's eyes did survive, and we will have it confirmed that the clone has no unusual gifts in the Force.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 00:36

Galaga Galaxian: Apr 23, 2009; What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!

Those clones were all imperfect prototypes sacrificed by Gideon, who also sacrificed himself by fighting the Mando to allow the final, perfect, force-attuned Gideeon clone to escape. Yup, definitely that.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 00:42

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Aren�t Dark Troopers supposed to be Force sensitive

# ? Sep 3, 2023 01:26

Rochallor: Apr 23, 2010; ふっっっっっっっっっっっっｃｋ

FlamingLiberal posted:

Aren�t Dark Troopers supposed to be Force sensitive

I don't remember precisely what happened with them in Mando but in Legends dark troopers were all droids, and I'm pretty sure they were depicted the same way in Mando.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 02:32

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Phase II troopers were suits, but the human element was deigned a flaw and removed, leading to the Phase III in Mando being robots

Gideon being Gideon, brought it back anyway for the Phase IV

Phase II were in the Star Wars Commander mobile game and saw service during the OT era

# ? Sep 3, 2023 03:31

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

Larryb posted:

Apparently there was a Hutt Jedi back in the Legends continuity though:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Beldorion

Even stupider than it sounds.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 05:21

Xenomrph: Dec 9, 2005; AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill

Vinylshadow posted:

Phase II troopers were suits, but the human element was deigned a flaw and removed, leading to the Phase III in Mando being robots

Gideon being Gideon, brought it back anyway for the Phase IV

Phase II were in the Star Wars Commander mobile game and saw service during the OT era

I�m a big fan of the Legends Dark Troopers, personally.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 05:23

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

Megillah Gorilla posted:

Even stupider than it sounds.

I want to see this thing force-jump around like Yoda in the prequels :allears:

# ? Sep 3, 2023 06:30

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# ? May 27, 2024 19:12

SuperMechagodzilla: Jun 9, 2007; NEWT REBORN

LinkesAuge posted:

Tying force power/potential to genetics would be the worst thing one can do. Not only would it lead to so many plotholes/open questions but it would also completely undermine the force itself, not to mention the uncomfortable implications, ie force users are by all measures just "superior", they are literally a "race" of super-humans/aliens. So if that ability is inheritable it leads to a very, very uncomfortable place.

This is actually on you; because why do you perceive 'force-sensitives' as a superior race (and presumably deserving of better treatment, etc.)?

Also, given that The Force is literally another name for God, how can the existence of telekinetic mutants "undermine" God Himself?

You can see how people are perplexed: Jedi are perceived as blessed due to their powers - "God-sensitive" - and yet we lose the holiness in the objective confirmation of their powers. 'Force sensitives' are only ever magical so long as we never look too closely.

Lucas is clearly against such a view. Talented mutants simply exist in his films, obviously not "superior" in any way that really matters (see; the big flashing sign that reads "THE JEDI ARE EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE AT BEST" whenever they're onscreen). Characters like Han and Jar Jar triumph through simple bravery and luck, while others can and do attain Jedi-equivalent power through technology. R2-D2. General Grievous.

What Filioni is doing in this latest show is the bad take, since the logic that "everyone has midichlorians therefore everyone is low-key psychic" eliminates luck from the imagination. We already have people saying Chirrut from Rogue One was secretly a mutant when, of course, the entire point of the scene is that he had no psychic abilities whatsoever. Walking through the gunfire was an authentic miracle, whereas Jedi basically just make stuff float via magnets.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 06:58

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