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While I'm happy with them merging characters (you can't have all million Aes Sedai from the books), Liandrin/Elaida is one I wouldn't be on board with. Elaida isn't a dark friend, she's just a complete, arrogant idiot. It gives that whole section later in the books with Egwene a different complexion otherwise.Goofballs posted:Its not like you can't be black and Irish, as Phil Lynott said its like being a pint of Guiness. But its not exactly the stereotype of the Irish. One of the interesting things about the books is the Aiel are basically the Fremen from Dune. The Fremen are heavily coded as Bedouin. It was an interesting twist that you had a whole bunch of redheads living in the desert. I'm not that bent out of shape about it, like I said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e9WDfg2idk OneSizeFitsAll fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Sep 4, 2023 |
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Sep 4, 2023 13:02
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I hope they don't try and make all darkfriends seem like they have reasonable ideas, just another perspective stuff. I thought it was pretty important thematically that dark friends were selfish assholes and the Dark One even liked and encouraged it, even if that kind of stuff essentially led to him losing all the time. It was what the DO represented, all those things, he could not not like that.
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Sep 4, 2023 13:09
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:While I'm happy with them merging characters (you can't have all million Aes Sedai from the books), Liandrin/Elaida is one I wouldn't be on board with. Elaida isn't a dark friend, she's just a complete, arrogant idiot. It gives that whole section later in the books with Egwene a different complexion otherwise. How about the possible twist that show Liadrin isn't a Darkfriend and it was actually Sheriam at the DFS?
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Sep 4, 2023 13:18
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Jedit posted:How about the possible twist that show Liadrin isn't a Darkfriend and it was actually Sheriam at the DFS? Could work I guess? But would it be Sheriam who hands over Egwene to the Seanchan? She can't really travel around so much, being Mistress of Novices and all. I guess she could send Egwene and co into danger without actually travelling with them. It would reveal her as a darkfriend far earlier than the books, but they seem to be changing so much that that doesn't seem too unlikely.
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Sep 4, 2023 13:57
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His Divine Shadow posted:I hope they don't try and make all darkfriends seem like they have reasonable ideas, just another perspective stuff. There's a difference between making a point of view seem reasonable and being empathetic. I like that they're not making the show's villains be cardboard cutouts.
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Sep 4, 2023 15:25
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Pretty sure there’s a Judkins interview or Q&A somewhere where he explicitly says Elaida will be in and not combined with anyone. I personally believe Laia Costa is Elaida. She’s a solid B list euro actress just like Meera Syal and Kate Fleetwood which would require a significant role. Elaida is the only remaining major figure at this point in the story we don’t know. Don’t know why it hasn’t happened yet 
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Sep 4, 2023 15:40
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There was no winnowing out. There are 4 seperate channeling organizations aside from the White Tower and each and every one of them was shown to be bursting at the seams with channelers. Only the Aes Sedai are in decline and that's because they are stupid enough to see a woman who is stronger than the strongest Aes Sedai to exist in centuries and tell her to go back to her farm because she's a grandma. I don't think there's any evidence that bloodline actually affects channeling; like 90% of channelers we see we don't hear about their parents, presumably because they weren't really notable. Of those whose parentage is known... Elayne and Asmodean were born to channeling mothers and that's about all I remember. Maybe the Windfinders? I don't remember the specifics of their situation.
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Sep 4, 2023 16:20
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There's still the tons of novice quarters that stay empty that can't entirely be writen off as high admittance standards by Aes Sedai. Opening the novice book up to the kin just about brought them up to full, but that's *every* kin channeler who wanted to join, not just the young girls. And having a thousand kin show up sounds like it's a huge deal, but only in comparison to the paltry numbers they had before then.
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Sep 4, 2023 16:44
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His Divine Shadow posted:I hope they don't try and make all darkfriends seem like they have reasonable ideas, just another perspective stuff. I thought it was pretty important thematically that dark friends were selfish assholes and the Dark One even liked and encouraged it, even if that kind of stuff essentially led to him losing all the time. It was what the DO represented, all those things, he could not not like that. For a more cut down, visual medium I don't necessarily hate giving them more nuance and to maybe try and lead into the Rand vs Ishy philosophical stuff of the ending, but gently so. Meeting random Darkfriends who start spouting nihilist Ishamael crap in the middle of the series does not do it for me.
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Sep 4, 2023 16:59
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Season 2 feels like a big step up in quality over season 1 so far. I don't mind changes from the source material... as long as they are good. And as long as the show is above a certain threshold of quality it's easy to just enjoy it and not nit pick it. - After Nyn popped out of the 3rd Arch the first time, I literally said out loud "Wow, how lame that they didn't show her 3rd trial, that's the best one". I didn't trust the show, so I assumed it was the show being bad rather than a fake out, but then they redeemed themselves. Well done. - Rand skipping straight to Cairhien is fine. Rand + Selene is working well. The brief Game of Houses stuff was good, Rand's disgust at their being no prize for the Horn and his general distaste for the Nobles was great. Logain becoming Rand's teacher feels like a good idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about Logain. He's being characterized as a completely different person in the show compared to his book counterpart. Logain's madness both in S1 and S2 feels wayyyyy overacted so far. Will Thom make a return? - New Mat is great, I like him better than Barney already. His new storyline seems good so far. Min feels more like Min. I liked that Mat was so effected by Liandrin's verbal evisceration that he didn't think he could help Egwene or that she'd want to see him, so he skulked away, utterly ashamed of himself. Feels like he's got to go earn some mojo and will have a good little redemption arc off with Min before getting folded back in with the rest of the crew. - Egwene + Elayne is basically perfect. The Tower stuff is good. Liandrin's expanded roll is good, still not sure she's a darkfriend. - Perrin + Loail + Shinearens is good. The Seanchan feel right, even if I have some strong disagreements with their costumes, Ball gags chief among them. It would be so much better if Marcus Rutherford spoke in a normal voice. The stupid strained look on his face and his strained voice and the stilted, short way of speaking are awful. - Moiraine and Lan are the weakest storyline at the moment. Verin and Adeleas were good. Having Moiraine kind of go through the Siuan post stilling plot of keeping herself so busy with her spy network that she doesn't have time to be depressed is good. Bayle Domon do be a good inclusion. I still think she's just shielded.
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Sep 4, 2023 17:07
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I wish they had kept up the "do be" accent on Domon throughout his scene. He only said it once, then they dropped it Fortune prick me
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Sep 4, 2023 17:11
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Data Graham posted:I wish they had kept up the "do be" accent on Domon throughout his scene. He only said it once, then they dropped it I noticed that too and kept expecting him to keep it up
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Sep 4, 2023 17:18
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CainFortea posted:There's still the tons of novice quarters that stay empty that can't entirely be writen off as high admittance standards by Aes Sedai. Opening the novice book up to the kin just about brought them up to full, but that's *every* kin channeler who wanted to join, not just the young girls. And having a thousand kin show up sounds like it's a huge deal, but only in comparison to the paltry numbers they had before then. The winnowing theory is literally just the Aes Sedai misplacing the blame their disastrous recruitment policies (which, to be fair, were likely orchestrated by the Black Ajah) deserved.
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Sep 4, 2023 17:34
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We also can’t be entirely sure whether those channelers were always in the population, or were spun out by the Pattern as part of the buildup toward Tar’mon Gaidon. Jordan did a heckuva job building a world where there are multiple competing explanations, all equally plausible.
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Sep 4, 2023 17:49
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Atlas Hugged posted:Do you think they're just going to merge Liandrin into Elaida? There's probably just not enough time in the show to establish Elaida's whole thing, a lawful-evil individual who thinks they're acting in the name of the greater good. Having Liandrin lead the Tower after Siuan is deposed works about as well and would cut down on a number of unnecessary plot threads. Hexel posted:Pretty sure there’s a Judkins interview or Q&A somewhere where he explicitly says Elaida will be in and not combined with anyone. I personally believe Laia Costa is Elaida. She’s a solid B list euro actress just like Meera Syal and Kate Fleetwood which would require a significant role. Elaida is the only remaining major figure at this point in the story we don’t know. Hexel is correct. Elaida is not cut from the show. pik_d posted:Rafe confirmed Elaida was in the series in the JordonCon 2023 video
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Sep 4, 2023 18:01
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Nihilarian posted:There was no winnowing out. There are 4 seperate channeling organizations aside from the White Tower and each and every one of them was shown to be bursting at the seams with channelers. Only the Aes Sedai are in decline and that's because they are stupid enough to see a woman who is stronger than the strongest Aes Sedai to exist in centuries and tell her to go back to her farm because she's a grandma. I don't think there's any evidence that bloodline actually affects channeling; like 90% of channelers we see we don't hear about their parents, presumably because they weren't really notable. Of those whose parentage is known... Elayne and Asmodean were born to channeling mothers and that's about all I remember. Maybe the Windfinders? I don't remember the specifics of their situation. My headcanon (and maybe actual canon?) is that the Black Ajah worked in a lot of stupid rules that hamstring the Aes Sedai over the centuries.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:03
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Grundulum posted:We also can’t be entirely sure whether those channelers were always in the population, or were spun out by the Pattern as part of the buildup toward Tar’mon Gaidon. Jordan did a heckuva job building a world where there are multiple competing explanations, all equally plausible. Yeah I think it is a both/and situation - the Aes Sedai (being influenced by the Black Ajah) were contributing to a weakening of the channeling ability across the Westlands, and similar things were playing out in other areas. However the ta'averen effect spurred a resurgence in both the number of channelers and the overall power level. As in there were lots of people with the potential to be channelers, and quite strong channelers at that, who would not have sparked if the Last Battle wasn't right around the corner.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:05
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I'm not against the new Aes Sedai recruits being part of a Ta'veran web - in fact, that would be a great thing to attribute to Egwene, and part of why she should have been considered such in the books - but I still place the lion's share of the blame at Aes Sedai incompetance/Black Ajah malice. Fewer Aes Sedai could be explained by any number of additional factors that don't involve culling, like society's general distrust of Aes Sedai in the current era. If there are simply fewer channelers than there were at an arbitrary point in the White Tower's existance it could also just stem from, for example, a smaller population. The White Tower was created before the Trolloc Wars.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:26
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pik_d posted:Hexel is correct. Elaida is not cut from the show. Although merging Alviarin and Liandrin is a good possibility
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Sep 4, 2023 18:27
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DarkHorse posted:Although merging Alviarin and Liandrin is a good possibility Yeah, I'm a big fan of this theory.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:30
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But it would take away one of Elaida’s big whines, that her Keeper is from a different ajah which shows her weakness in the hall. Elaida needs all the whines she can get, it’s her whole character! They’ll have to give her new whines!
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Sep 4, 2023 18:51
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Nihilarian posted:I'm not against the new Aes Sedai recruits being part of a Ta'veran web - in fact, that would be a great thing to attribute to Egwene, and part of why she should have been considered such in the books - but I still place the lion's share of the blame at Aes Sedai incompetance/Black Ajah malice. Fewer Aes Sedai could be explained by any number of additional factors that don't involve culling, like society's general distrust of Aes Sedai in the current era. If there are simply fewer channelers than there were at an arbitrary point in the White Tower's existance it could also just stem from, for example, a smaller population. The White Tower was created before the Trolloc Wars. And the Tower is almost certainly in the stat that it is because of the Black Ajah. They've had some two thousand years to gently caress around with things from the shadows.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:52
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Is Vandene merged into Verin? Are show Verin and show Adeleas sisters? I wasn't paying the greatest attention during that part.
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Sep 4, 2023 20:24
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Arrinien posted:Is Vandene merged into Verin? Are show Verin and show Adeleas sisters? I wasn't paying the greatest attention during that part. Yes and yes. This is making people speculate that Verin will be the one that kills Adeleas.
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Sep 4, 2023 20:32
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DarkHorse posted:Although merging Alviarin and Liandrin is a good possibility I think this is almost a certainty because the actress playing Liandrin has really taken off and she’s become a pillar of the show. To me, Alviarin doesn’t bring much to the table as a character that show Liandrin isn’t already providing and she’s already been expanded beyond anything Liandrin was really doing in the books. Liandrin either already being or becoming the leader and “face” of the Black Ajah feels like a pretty natural progression for the character at this point in the show.
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Sep 4, 2023 20:38
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pik_d posted:Yes and yes. This is making people speculate that Verin will be the one that kills Adeleas. I'm OK with this as long as it's not revealed to the audience until her visit with Egwene. Even though she's not really Black, she would have to follow enough orders to kill to not be suspicious. A good change - anywhere they can cut down the number of named Aes Sedai is a good thing.
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Sep 4, 2023 22:07
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arteliad posted:But go off. The relative power levels of the characters, from RJ's actual notes, are all easily available online. Nynaeve being 10 times as powerful as Egwene and Elayne doesn't make sense.
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Sep 4, 2023 22:41
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Keeping specific power levels is completely unnecessary, the only thing that matters for the story is Nynaeve is stronger
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Sep 4, 2023 22:42
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Rarity posted:Keeping specific power levels is completely unnecessary, the only thing that matters for the story is Nynaeve is stronger yeah but egwene needs to know in her soul that nynaeve is way stronger so she can constantly pretend to not be jealous about it for the rest of the series
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Sep 4, 2023 22:47
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Rarity posted:Keeping specific power levels is completely unnecessary, the only thing that matters for the story is Nynaeve is stronger Her power level is maximum. Edit: I know in the books that's not true but I would actually not be surprised if, in the show, it is
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Sep 4, 2023 22:48
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Word on the street from reviewers who’ve seen it is episode 4 is a banger. It’s called Daughter of the Night and is written by Dave Hill who did ep 4 of season 1 Hexel fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 5, 2023 |
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Sep 5, 2023 00:17
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ugh they really added so much stuff not in the books, which like the first season seems like a crazy decision considering there are only 8 episodes. the actors are uniformly excellent tho, best thing about the show. The production design and costuming is excellent as well. but man all the unnecessary content written by people not named Robert Jordan. They're just not as good, like if you compare the two, the beginning of the second book was a much more propulsive and exciting start to the story.
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Sep 5, 2023 01:38
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eke out posted:same here, all the weird fast forwarded fragmentary imagery and the memory loss made it seem like they were going in some very different direction. got me! Yeah this is my favorite part of the three episodes. What a great head gently caress esp if you read the books. That, and some of the characters mergings is some great writing and thinking by the creators of the show. Verin replacing Vandene, Elyas replacining Hurin who is non-existent after the second book, that's smart. Just wish they hewed closer to the books.
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Sep 5, 2023 02:21
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I don't even like the show very much, but there are so many valid criticisms that getting hung up on the number 10 is just weird. Like, the actual problem isn't that Nynaeve is significantly stronger than Egwene, which is accurate, it's that the show keeps cranking the melodrama up to 11 like it's on the CW.
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Sep 5, 2023 02:46
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Did anyone else note that the number 8 seems to be replacing 13? 8 forsaken, 8 women to cut a man off from the source, etc
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Sep 5, 2023 03:21
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I caught that, yeah Immediate thought was "lol budget cuts"
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Sep 5, 2023 03:24
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Data Graham posted:I caught that, yeah DEMANDRED. HOW FARES THIS QUARTER?
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Sep 5, 2023 03:31
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Sometimes I forget how early Perrin's chapters become a slog. It's mid-book-6. Nobody cares about your wife, dude.
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Sep 5, 2023 03:38
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Did anyone else note that the number 8 seems to be replacing 13? 8 forsaken, 8 women to cut a man off from the source, etc I never read past knife of dreams but could never keep the forsaken straight. totally cool with them merging a bunch
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Sep 5, 2023 05:10
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A bunch of them are just final bosses for individual books, not surprised they'd get cut.
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