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maybealabia posted:Mind reading Quigon does like all of these and so does Luke
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Sep 5, 2023 17:52
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No Mods No Masters posted:Sorry, when was it established that mind reading and mind tricks are not jedi approved methods? Pretty orthodox jedi seem pretty cavalier about using them to my memory. I mean yeah Obi-wan is the OG of jedi mind tricks, and orthodox as hell, but he's also kind of a sleazeball.
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Sep 5, 2023 17:52
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I'm mostly laughing at the notion that the cool aunt is the goody two shoes who teaches you all the right things and is "A Good Person™"
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Sep 5, 2023 17:58
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It's extremely easy to just assume Ahsoka did something like Kylo's forcible mind reading or force choking or something. Stuff that has repeatedly been shown in canon to be Bad. Quit trying to read weird specific torture sequences into this.
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Sep 5, 2023 17:58
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She forced them to listen to Hutt poetry until they spilled the beans. It took practically no time at all
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Sep 5, 2023 18:08
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I might have said this before, but I wouldn't even really mind ahsoka being a piece of poo poo if she had an arc of recognizing that she was slipping and starting to repeat the mistakes of the past, etc, and growing a bit as a person. I'm happy to own it if it turns out I'm underestimating the show. But based on what I've seen so far it seems smart money is pretty against that, "cool aunt" is where she's probably intended to be at, torture or convenient borderline-technically-not-torture aside, and will stay
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Sep 5, 2023 18:10
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Ahsoka historically has been a line stepper and rule bender She is the Padawan in the lineage of Dooku>Qui-gon>Obi-Wan>Anakin lol It's what she does.
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Sep 5, 2023 18:15
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Dexo posted:Ahsoka historically has been a line stepper and rule bender Not a storytelling expert here but maybe the main character of the show should have an arc
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Sep 5, 2023 18:16
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No Mods No Masters posted:I might have said this before, but I wouldn't even really mind ahsoka being a piece of poo poo if she had an arc of recognizing that she was slipping and starting to repeat the mistakes of the past, etc, and growing a bit as a person. They kinda did this with Sabine taking the gun and Ahsoka piloting in the dogfight against Shin and Marrok. We only got 3 episodes out of 8 so far. Looking forward to the 4th tonight.
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Sep 5, 2023 18:25
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No Mods No Masters posted:Not a storytelling expert here but maybe the main character of the show should have an arc She does have an arc, it’s in the shows you refuse to watch and this series was marketed as a direct sequel to Also as mentioned, she’s far from the first “good” Jedi in the franchise we’ve seen do this kind of stuff Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Sep 5, 2023 |
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Sep 5, 2023 18:25
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She is having an arc, but like Star Wars in general is often flip about mind manipulation. They are likely not going to bring up how doing that is bad. Which it is. But star wars always has considered mind control a "light side" power lol Ahsoka's arc is likely going to be more about her internal conflicts over bailing on the order and Sabine, and her seemingly not being over walking away from the order and Anakin turning out like he did. And probably tearing down the wall she puts up around her emotions.
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Sep 5, 2023 18:26
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maybealabia posted:She forced them to listen to Hutt poetry until they spilled the beans. It took practically no time at all Ahsoka played her the dying sounds of Dizonite children, clearly.
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Sep 5, 2023 18:35
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maybealabia posted:She forced them to listen to Hutt poetry until they spilled the beans. It took practically no time at all The robot is snarky, but not nearly depressed enough for this reference to work 
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Sep 5, 2023 18:50
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banned from Starbucks posted:Quigon does like all of these and so does Luke Hell, Luke literally force choked some of Jabba’s guards at the start of ROTJ
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Sep 5, 2023 19:03
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my cat is norris posted:haven't watched yet, is Ahsoka shaping up to be pretty good? It's pretty good so far, has yet to be drat good or great, but we're less than half way in, and it has yet to get to "the thing". By this point in Kenobi and Book of Boba Fett, I was very worried. I'm not worried here. That being said, it needs to get to "the thing" soon. I'm hoping the next episode moves along faster. But I liked the last episode, even if it was too short.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:20
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yeah by all accounts Episode 5 is going to be THE EPISODE.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:28
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Look, I enjoy the show. But "this show makes sense in the context of a previous multi-season show" and "this show will start making sense when the Actually Important Episode drops" are not great sells. It's a little frightening to me how the MCU, among other things, have not only conditioned people to stop expecting coherent narratives but to dismiss anyone who does as a troll or an idiot.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:30
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Halloween Jack posted:Look, I enjoy the show. But "this show makes sense in the context of the previous show" and "this show will start making sense when the Actually Important episode drops" are not great sells. I mean, I'm not writing a persuasive screed to get someone to watch this show. I just post my opinions or poo poo that I know/think, and I'll let the person reading it make their own decision based on their own opinions and values lol. I completely understand most of the complaints about this show, and share a number them in general, but it's been generally enjoyable to watch in a way I didn't feel about most of Boba Fett/Obi-Wan/Mando S3. Andor I would actually write that screed for tho. It's a show everyone should watch.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:38
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The idea that ahsoka's arc is basically finished at this point and she's a static character, and I should watch some other show if I want to see her grow or change, seems bad. The idea that ahsoka's arc is learning the power of friendship and opening up to people, I will grant does seem plausibly supported by the text, but is also incredibly boring
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Sep 5, 2023 19:41
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Halloween Jack posted:Look, I enjoy the show. But "this show makes sense in the context of a previous multi-season show" and "this show will start making sense when the Actually Important Episode drops" are not great sells. It's not ideal as a stand alone show. Everyone agrees. But if you watched Twin Peaks: the return without the original or Batman Beyond without Batman TAS, or DS9 without TNG, or the X files movie without the series, or Steven Universe Future without SU... Well, I think you take my point Not everything is for everyone, thank goodness
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Sep 5, 2023 19:44
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Dexo posted:yeah by all accounts Episode 5 is going to be THE EPISODE. Is that the one where we find Thrawn and Ezra on a beat up old ship; Ezra waxing philosophic on the ramifications of the galactic seafood market, and a one legged Thrawn obsessed with albino purrgil?
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Sep 5, 2023 19:45
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Halloween Jack posted:Look, I enjoy the show. But "this show makes sense in the context of a previous multi-season show" and "this show will start making sense when the Actually Important Episode drops" are not great sells. It's had a perfectly coherent narrative, so I don't know why you're applying that to this show. It's just been dragging it's heels a little bit to focus on the characters. Which is fine, as long as we get to the fireworks factory at some point. I said it before, but my favorite scene so far was the training scene where Ahsoka talked to Sabine about the Force, and moved the cup. It was small, intimate, and got back to the what I feel is the original nature of the Force in the first couple of movies. But I also eventually want crazy poo poo to go down, too. If you're complaint is, "I don't know what Morgan did to get locked up," which SMG mentioned earlier, and you hinted at with you context comment, then well, Star Wars has been dealing with stories where you jump in not knowing the whole deal since literally minute one. She's bad, and wants to bring back other bad guy. It's not complicated.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:46
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No Mods No Masters posted:The idea that ahsoka's arc is basically finished at this point and she's a static character, and I should watch some other show if I want to see her grow or change, seems bad. I don't take it as a given that Ahsoka has no arc and will be static. In this last episode we saw her in the dogfight try to keep teaching Sabine, then take a moment where she considers she's wrong, and listens to Sabine instead. I think there's room for growth that we'll get to see here. She's been alone for a long time, and is opening up after he best friend and mentor turned into one of the most evil people in the galaxy. That's a long journey to take. I find that interesting, though I guess you don't, based on your second comment.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:47
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I’m trying to convince my mom to watch Andor, and she doesn’t care for Star Wars or sci-fi. I’m trying to preface the show as not being whiz-bang spaceship battles and lightsabers and wacky aliens all over the place, and more of a political intrigue thriller about the radicalization of one man against an oppressive regime. I’m watching Bad Batch for the first time and it’s neat so far, I guess? I just finished the two-parter with young Hera Syndulla. I wonder where young Hera’s French accent goes when she grows up. Crosshairs is a big piece of poo poo, though. Like, the inhibitor chip made him follow Order 66, but as other clones have demonstrated, it didn’t mean they also became fascist assholes. Sure “good soldiers follow orders” but the entirety of the Clone Wars show followed the through line that there is morality involved and good people step up and question obviously bad orders. Omeega thinks Crosshairs is just misguided because of his inhibitor chip, but I’m not buying it - he’s just a Bad Guy.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:48
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Xenomrph posted:I’m trying to convince my mom to watch Andor, and she doesn’t care for Star Wars or sci-fi. I’m trying to preface the show as not being whiz-bang spaceship battles and lightsabers and wacky aliens all over the place, and more of a political intrigue thriller about the radicalization of one man against an oppressive regime. I think Bad Batch is more of a mixed bag than some people, but I also think the Crosshair episodes are the best. There's one Crosshair episode in season 2 that is one of my favorite animated Star Wars things ever (The Outpost).
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Sep 5, 2023 19:52
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Xenomrph posted:I’m watching Bad Batch for the first time and it’s neat so far, I guess? I just finished the two-parter with young Hera Syndulla. I wonder where young Hera’s French accent goes when she grows up. It slips out on occasion, usually when she’s yelling at her dad.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:52
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Xenomrph posted:
It went the same place my Mom's southern accent and mannerisms went after she moved up north in the early 80s. It's in Hiding until she either gets happy/angry enough, or goes back down to Mississippi to visit family and friends, or talks with her sisters/brothers from down south on the phone long enough. Code switching is apparently a thing even in the star wars universe.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:53
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Yeah, I had a Boston accent when I was a kid that (thank god) has disappeared since we moved when I was young. It happens. Though it comes back when I'm around my Boston family.
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Sep 5, 2023 19:55
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maybealabia posted:But if you watched Twin Peaks: the return without the original or Batman Beyond without Batman TAS, or DS9 without TNG, or the X files movie without the series, or Steven Universe Future without SU... Well, I think you take my point No one needs me to explain why a comparison to Twin Peaks is totally inapt. thrawn527 posted:It's had a perfectly coherent narrative, so I don't know why you're applying that to this show. It's just been dragging it's heels a little bit to focus on the characters. Which is fine, as long as we get to the fireworks factory at some point. If you haven't watched Clone Wars, Rebels, or The Mandalorian, there's no understanding who Thrawn is or why he matters. If you've watched Clone Wars, Rebels, and Mandalorian, the situation is somewhat different: there's no understanding why Thrawn matters.
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Sep 5, 2023 20:00
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Xenomrph posted:I’m watching Bad Batch for the first time and it’s neat so far, I guess? I just finished the two-parter with young Hera Syndulla. I wonder where young Hera’s French accent goes when she grows up. It didn’t go anywhere, she just speaks unaccented with most people, but at one point in Rebels she meets and argues with her father and quickly it slips back in like she never stopped. Edit: way beat, lol
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Sep 5, 2023 20:01
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Halloween Jack posted:Look, I enjoy the show. But "this show makes sense in the context of a previous multi-season show" and "this show will start making sense when the Actually Important Episode drops" are not great sells. You could make the same argument for the Obi-Wan series. What was his arc? Did he have a huge plot that redefined who he was as a character? Not really-- Reva did, but Obi-Wan pretty much just grudgingly helped save the princess and made peace that he wasn't entirely at fault for making Vader. Also I remember "this show doesn't make sense so far" was an early criticism of Andor, and we all know how that turned out. Azhais posted:Is that the one where we find Thrawn and Ezra on a beat up old ship; Ezra waxing philosophic on the ramifications of the galactic seafood market, and a one legged Thrawn obsessed with albino purrgil? Rebels had an extended and very obvious Jaws recreation in one episode. Space Moby Dick sounds pretty fuckin rad to me. 
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Sep 5, 2023 20:07
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Eh, They specifically tell you why Thrawn coming back matters and is bad. They call him a Grand Admiral of the Empire, and as shown, there are still a number of imperial supporters and remnants around. He'd be able to unite them, which presumably is bad.
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Sep 5, 2023 20:10
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Hazo posted:You could make the same argument for the Obi-Wan series. What was his arc? Did he have a huge plot that redefined who he was as a character? Not really-- Reva did, but Obi-Wan pretty much just grudgingly helped save the princess and made peace that he wasn't entirely at fault for making Vader. I mean there were a lot of reasons why obi wan was a dog poo poo show, but yeah this was definitely one of them. It had no reason to exist. I quite disliked episode 3 of this but I will readily say it's not (yet) at obi wan levels of bad
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Sep 5, 2023 20:14
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Dexo posted:Eh, They specifically tell you why Thrawn coming back matters and is bad. Right, and it seems those Imperial agents were working directly to bring him back, since they were working to secure the hyperdrive. So the implication is that the disparate Imperial forces would welcome him. Thrawn is important because the bad guys want him back, and he's said to be the last Imperial Grand Admiral, so the most high ranking Imperial that we know of. That's really all you need to know. Anyone claiming, "But the show isn't doing its job because it didn't point out (x) about Thrawn from Rebels..." is actually the one bringing previous unneeded baggage. Not that anyone has said that exact thing, but that's the implication when people say they'd need to watch Rebels to know why Thrawn is important. So far, not really?
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Sep 5, 2023 20:17
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Halloween Jack posted:If you haven't watched Clone Wars, Rebels, or The Mandalorian, there's no understanding who Thrawn is or why he matters. The show has told you why he matters; he’s an infamous imperial leader who could reunite the fractured Empire into a serious threat. This about as much as we know about the Death Star at first in ANH. We don’t need to know the background of the thing, we just know it’s a bad thing that can kill planets. Obviously it would’ve been better if they had shown* instead of just told. What we have been shown though is the protagonists taking the threat seriously and the bad guys putting in great effort to bring Thrawn back. He’s the Maltese Falcon for now. * perhaps we could’ve used a scene of various Imperial Warlords asking Morgan Elsbeth where the Thrawn they were promised was, similar to that scene in Mando with ProbablyPellaeon.
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Sep 5, 2023 20:21
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I mean clearly they're saving thrawn for some big "cool" reveal as is this show's wont, but they could have just gotten on with it and given him a scene establishing him a bit. It's not like there isn't some highly cuttable material where it could have been spliced in so far
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Sep 5, 2023 20:24
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maybealabia posted:It's not ideal as a stand alone show. Everyone agrees. I'll preface this by saying I don't think Ashoka is hard to follow, that really things are explained fairly well imo and those that aren't are things that maybe in another show you'd just expect to be explained at some point. However I've seen Rebels so I cannot view this from the pov of someone who hasn't, and I have heard this criticism from non Rebels watchers a lot. Saying that most of the examples you listed as shows you'd expect to watch first are really mainstream, large shows that were really the only things to watch prior. Rebels is a children's cartoon and one piece of Star Wars media out of dozens that the average person even if they enjoyed the Star Wars films likely won't watch. For example, the majority of people who would watch DS9 would have seen TNG because TNG was the only Trek thing around plus it was incredibly mainstream TV unlike Rebels which is like right down the pecking order of prominent Star Wars media below the films and the live action shows, plus its very impenetrable to the average person (most people down want to watch a kids cartoon that is a gently caress ton of episodes with a fair bit of filler) Like if Ashoka carried on the story of say Rise of Skywalker (gross), Return of the Jedi etc I don't think people would really have a leg to stand on that criticise it for being essentially a sequel show which is not as satisfying to watch for those who didn't see Rebels.
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Sep 5, 2023 20:28
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I will say that I haven't seen a single Rebels episode with new-canon Thrawn, and: thrawn527 posted:Right, and it seems those Imperial agents were working directly to bring him back, since they were working to secure the hyperdrive. So the implication is that the disparate Imperial forces would welcome him. Thrawn is important because the bad guys want him back, and he's said to be the last Imperial Grand Admiral, so the most high ranking Imperial that we know of. That's really all you need to know. Galaga Galaxian posted:The show has told you why he matters; he’s an infamous imperial leader who could reunite the fractured Empire into a serious threat. This about as much as we know about the Death Star at first in ANH. We don’t need to know the background of the thing, we just know it’s a bad thing that can kill planets. yeah I thought this was all pretty to follow. He's somehow connected to Ezra's disappearance, and he's obviously a serious threat as evidenced by how worried the good guys are and how eager to find him the bad guys are.
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Sep 5, 2023 20:32
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The show has told you why he matters; he’s an infamous imperial leader who could reunite the fractured Empire into a serious threat. This about as much as we know about the Death Star at first in ANH. We don’t need to know the background of the thing, we just know it’s a bad thing that can kill planets. The Death Star is a giant gun that can blow up planets. We see it blow up a planet. It's immediately obvious how a planet-destroying superweapon is the cornerstone of Palpatine's plan for galactic fascism. There's a brief scene where the Imperial High Command discuss the flaws of relying on the Death Star as an ultimate solution. Thrawn is an Admiral who lost a battle and was abducted by space whales a bit over a decade ago, before the Rebel Alliance blew up the first Death Star. Hera Syndulla is one of the Rebel leaders who defeated Thrawn. She believes that if Thrawn returns, he'll singlehandedly unite various Imperial remnants into a new Empire. We are given no reason to believe this. When the new political leadership asks her why she believes this, and implies that it's a personal obsession, she loses her composure and makes it very clear that this is the case. Because she's a good guy and this is Disney Star Wars, she will of course turn out to be right. But the stuff about Thrawn being some kind of Imperial messiah just raises more questions, which will only be answered by piling on nonsense that raises even more questions.
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Sep 5, 2023 20:41
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I think I'm just fundamentally opposed to mystery boxes, which is basically what thrawn is at this point in the story. This show has had almost 2.5 hours of runtime, you can just introduce the antagonist, you don't need to do a mystery dance around him for half the episodes. It takes much more away from the show structurally than it adds. We know he's in it guys
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Sep 5, 2023 20:49
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