The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Truga posted:

not that english is the only language that does this, but yeah i'd not be at all surprised if you told me half the words in the english language are "imported"

on your point about having a ton of different words for the "same" thing like abortion vs miscarriage.... that's a little more complicated and usually goes both ways, it just depends on the languages you're talking about

a thing i'm pretty sure english doesn't do is, my first language has completely separate words for picking fruit depending on if the tree is yours or not lmao

this conversation reminds me of the piece �Uncelftish Beholding�

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncleftish_Beholding

https://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/110/docs/uncleftish_beholding.html

quote:

For most of its being, mankind did not know what things are made of, but could only guess. With the growth of worldken, we began to learn, and today we have a beholding of stuff and work that watching bears out, both in the workstead and in daily life.

The underlying kinds of stuff are the firststuffs, which link together in sundry ways to give rise to the rest. Formerly we knew of ninety-two firststuffs, from waterstuff, the lightest and barest, to ymirstuff, the heaviest. Now we have made more, such as aegirstuff and helstuff.

# ? Sep 4, 2023 17:56

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# ? May 26, 2024 05:25

Mandoric: Mar 15, 2003

Oneiros posted:

i was actually wondering how well syllabic languages do against pronunciation changes like the english vowel drift

They definitely drift. I'm more of an interested observer than an expert on Chinese, but in it there have been several cycles of educational crisis caused by phonetic change: most characters were originally single-syllable self-evident category + reading compounds, but between the Three Kingdoms and North and South this had evolved to needing dictionaries which provided an initial rhyme + final rhyme (ie, "sword" = "sort" + "board"); by the Song and extending through the collapse of the Qing this had evolved to a series of very detailed analyses recompiled as drift continued; and both the ROC and PRC eventually abandoned these concepts altogether for education in favor of respectively a bespoke educational script and a new educational Romanization each based off a standardized-modernized Beijing accent.

As for

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

loving different counters for different objects in japanese etc.

, though, counter words are fine, everyone will get what you mean if you want 10個 of something that's technically a 札 or 本, the actual fuckery of Japanese is this, it's that you have to have

Frosted Flake posted:

English spelling is much easier if you know if a word originated in Old English, French, Latin or Greek. Usually that�s enough to figure out the word, it�s cases and whatever else.

this sense except it's for native, 5th-century predominantly Shanghainese, 8th-century typically Zhongyuan some call it Mandarin some call it Jin, and 10th-and-on mostly Beijing Mandarin.

Since the conception is syllable-based but the writing is primarily concept-based, you just get to see 東 east and decide based on the age and register of the vocab it's in whether it's the old Japanese flat word for east azuma drifted from aduma, the old Japanese poetic word for east higashi drifted from pimugasi, tsuu derived from older middle Chinese tuwng, tou derived from newer dōng, or ton probably derived from Shanghainese 1ton.

That said, the phonetic shifts are strongly universalized; ie old Japanese purely-phonetic-symbol ヒ pi→middle Japanese ヒ fi→modern Japanese ヒ hi, all words using this phoneme dating back to old Japanese are now pronounced with a hi except where it interacts with other linguistic reforms (and where those reforms happened the "spelling" was changed to reflect as well), as are all words dating back to middle Japanese, even though one of them is コーヒー (middle kohfii, modern kohhii, "coffee"). ピ (note the diacritic) is a slightly later addition to represent pi seen as a distinct phoneme, showing up in some very early Buddhist terms. /e/, script え/ blockprint ヱ, and /je/, 𛀁/エ, merged completely during the shift to modern (recently enough that we have "yen" in English!) to the point where the modern written language has /e/ え/エ; /je/ exists now in the standard language solely as a pretentious way to pronounce loanwords which have it, complete with clunky glyph combos, and as an unmarked stylistic tic in some varieties of song.

E: pimugasi to higashi has its own weird exception of the mu being dropped; there appear to have been separate hypercorrections in both earlier and later middle Japanese, the first bringing it to fingashi based on a conflation of mu with Chinese -n/-m before -n was formally considered a valid modifier to the previous syllable, and the second removing -n because it wasn't a valid syllable in that etymology.

Mandoric has issued a correction as of 18:30 on Sep 4, 2023

# ? Sep 4, 2023 18:07

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Drake no: Nazis

Drake yes: grammar Nazis

This is, somehow, worse than a food or anime derail

# ? Sep 4, 2023 18:25

Isentropy: Dec 12, 2010

palindrome posted:

Kids' can't learning to read good? No check it out, the children that can successfully learn to read and speak English correctly will simply assume their rightful place in the social hierarchy. Surely you've heard of the opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose order of grammar? Well if you don't know that intuitively, I'm afraid you're not invited to the six figure pizza party.

Rubber seals failing on a bunch of apocalyptic weaponry sounds very on brand as well.

I�ve encountered my first use of people writing ChatGPT code into production without trying to check whether it makes any sense

# ? Sep 4, 2023 18:30

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Mandoric posted:

They definitely drift. I'm more of an interested observer than an expert on Chinese, but in it there have been several cycles of educational crisis caused by phonetic change: most characters were originally single-syllable self-evident category + reading compounds, but between the Three Kingdoms and North and South this had evolved to needing dictionaries which provided an initial rhyme + final rhyme (ie, "sword" = "sort" + "board"); by the Song and extending through the collapse of the Qing this had evolved to a series of very detailed analyses recompiled as drift continued; and both the ROC and PRC eventually abandoned these concepts altogether for education in favor of respectively a bespoke educational script and a new educational Romanization each based off a standardized-modernized Beijing accent.

As for

, though, counter words are fine, everyone will get what you mean if you want 10個 of something that's technically a 札 or 本, the actual fuckery of Japanese is this, it's that you have to have

this sense except it's for native, 5th-century predominantly Shanghainese, 8th-century typically Zhongyuan some call it Mandarin some call it Jin, and 10th-and-on mostly Beijing Mandarin.

Since the conception is syllable-based but the writing is primarily concept-based, you just get to see 東 east and decide based on the age and register of the vocab it's in whether it's the old Japanese flat word for east azuma drifted from aduma, the old Japanese poetic word for east higashi drifted from pimugasi, tsuu derived from older middle Chinese tuwng, tou derived from newer dōng, or ton probably derived from Shanghainese 1ton.

That said, the phonetic shifts are strongly universalized; ie old Japanese purely-phonetic-symbol ヒ pi→middle Japanese ヒ fi→modern Japanese ヒ hi, all words using this phoneme dating back to old Japanese are now pronounced with a hi except where it interacts with other linguistic reforms (and where those reforms happened the "spelling" was changed to reflect as well), as are all words dating back to middle Japanese, even though one of them is コーヒー (middle kohfii, modern kohhii, "coffee"). ピ (note the diacritic) is a slightly later addition to represent pi seen as a distinct phoneme, showing up in some very early Buddhist terms. /e/, script え/ blockprint ヱ, and /je/, 𛀁/エ, merged completely during the shift to modern (recently enough that we have "yen" in English!) to the point where the modern written language has /e/ え/エ; /je/ exists now in the standard language solely as a pretentious way to pronounce loanwords which have it, complete with clunky glyph combos, and as an unmarked stylistic tic in some varieties of song.

E: pimugasi to higashi has its own weird exception of the mu being dropped; there appear to have been separate hypercorrections in both earlier and later middle Japanese, the first bringing it to fingashi based on a conflation of mu with Chinese -n/-m before -n was formally considered a valid modifier to the previous syllable, and the second removing -n because it wasn't a valid syllable in that etymology.

That's pretty cool. Always wondered about kohi

# ? Sep 4, 2023 18:57

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Japanese isn't even in the Sino Tibetan language family. They should have abandoned the Chinese character kanjis a long time ago.

Like around that time when that Japanese warlord tried to invade China via the Korean peninsula.

# ? Sep 4, 2023 19:27

peetermite: Aug 17, 2023; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 10 years!)

mah hold out hope fa da pidgin inglish ta become da nu standad abba spelin dis imperial tongue. wih time, wallah

# ? Sep 4, 2023 20:18

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

I have a copy of Tolkien's Old English Reader, and I think that's a pleasant and pastoral way forward as we enter degrowth and the end of industrial civilization.

# ? Sep 4, 2023 21:12

peetermite: Aug 17, 2023; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 10 years!)

Frosted Flake posted:

I have a copy of Tolkien's Old English Reader, and I think that's a pleasant and pastoral way forward as we enter degrowth and the end of industrial civilization.

i am going to hunt down every single copy of that, book of eli style once we enter coolzone, muthafugga

# ? Sep 4, 2023 21:15

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

stephenthinkpad posted:

Japanese isn't even in the Sino Tibetan language family. They should have abandoned the Chinese character kanjis a long time ago.

Like around that time when that Japanese warlord tried to invade China via the Korean peninsula.

i think everyone should adopt kanji

# ? Sep 4, 2023 22:21

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

peetermite posted:

i am going to hunt down every single copy of that, book of eli style once we enter coolzone, muthafugga

As you burn the last copy and slump down in the shattered ruins of a dead city inhabited only by ghosts for your final rest at long last you hear a single pair of boots crunch gravel and broken glass as they get closer. Looking up you see a man in an immaculate 3 piece double breasted suit and a bowler hat. In his hand he brandishes a copy of "how language works" by David Crystal, published by penguin books. Your arms are too weak to raise your shotgun loaded with nails and ball bearings. As your vision fades for the last time the stranger's final words haunt you. "Let's talk about sentence construction."

# ? Sep 4, 2023 23:30

peetermite: Aug 17, 2023; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 10 years!)

DancingShade posted:

As you burn the last copy and slump down in the shattered ruins of a dead city inhabited only by ghosts for your final rest at long last you hear a single pair of boots crunch gravel and broken glass as they get closer. Looking up you see a man in an immaculate 3 piece double breasted suit and a bowler hat. In his hand he brandishes a copy of "how language works" by David Crystal, published by penguin books. Your arms are too weak to raise your shotgun loaded with nails and ball bearings. As your vision fades for the last time the stranger's final words haunt you. "Let's talk about sentence construction."

lol

# ? Sep 4, 2023 23:37

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

DancingShade posted:

As you burn the last copy and slump down in the shattered ruins of a dead city inhabited only by ghosts for your final rest at long last you hear a single pair of boots crunch gravel and broken glass as they get closer. Looking up you see a man in an immaculate 3 piece double breasted suit and a bowler hat. In his hand he brandishes a copy of "how language works" by David Crystal, published by penguin books. Your arms are too weak to raise your shotgun loaded with nails and ball bearings. As your vision fades for the last time the stranger's final words haunt you. "Let's talk about sentence construction."

lmfao

# ? Sep 4, 2023 23:42

peetermite: Aug 17, 2023; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 10 years!)

with my final breath i curse "denazalisation.... will be your doom"

# ? Sep 4, 2023 23:47

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

RIP USS Enterprise

Turns out you didn't need Troi to run it into the ground, you just need decades of neoliberalism

# ? Sep 6, 2023 13:41

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

quote:

USS Enterprise's name will live on: the third Ford-class aicraft carrier (CVN-80) will also be named USS Enterprise

lol

# ? Sep 6, 2023 13:48

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

gradenko_2000 posted:

lol

It's supposed to be in operation by 2028. I expect it to sink to the bottom of the ocean before then.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 13:52

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

mycomancy posted:

RIP USS Enterprise

Turns out you didn't need Troi to run it into the ground, you just need decades of neoliberalism

I knew it was old but 56(!) years in service before decommissioning some years ago is a longer service life than I thought.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 13:55

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

well obviously they had to get rid of it. ain't no way you can grift properly if ships last for 50+ years

# ? Sep 6, 2023 14:01

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Dawncloack posted:

That happens a lot. Think of horses: Colt, mustang, foal, mare, and how many more?

In Spanish it's all "horse + obvious adjective".

Doesn't Spanish have "potro" for "foal" and "yegua" for "mare"? Mustang is a weird one because it refers to a specific population of feral horses so idk if it would be better to just use "mustang", but it's derived from the Spanish "meste�o" or "meste�go", which can mean feral, so I imagine it would be commonly used. Colt is a very specific one for horse perverts only and I bet there's similar Spanish jargon words to describe things that Spanish horse nutters consider important.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 14:17

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

mycomancy posted:

RIP USS Enterprise

Turns out you didn't need Troi to run it into the ground, you just need decades of neoliberalism

"The other two alternatives in the Navy's environmental planning process would have seen Enterprise dismantled at the Bremerton public shipyard. These options would have cost the taxpayer about twice as much, according to the Navy, and would take about 10 years longer. Doing the work at Bremerton would also tie up the shipyard's staff and facilities with a legacy disposal project when they already have a full workload with submarine and carrier maintenance (and decommissioning older subs). "

They always say this, and in my experience, it's never actually true.

Unless it would cost more and take longer because public capabilities were deliberately stripped by being mothballed, more often privatized, in which case they can point to the cost of rebuilding the capacity, which in turn allows them to accelerate the ever increasing cycle.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 14:35

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Truga posted:

not that english is the only language that does this, but yeah i'd not be at all surprised if you told me half the words in the english language are "imported"

It's even more than 50%, a third of English words come from French alone.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 14:53

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/jesuslasupajew/status/1699447469510177209

# ? Sep 6, 2023 16:44

Dawncloack: Nov 26, 2007; ECKS DEE!; Nap Ghost

Weka posted:

Doesn't Spanish have "potro" for "foal" and "yegua" for "mare"? Mustang is a weird one because it refers to a specific population of feral horses so idk if it would be better to just use "mustang", but it's derived from the Spanish "mesteño" or "mesteñgo", which can mean feral, so I imagine it would be commonly used. Colt is a very specific one for horse perverts only and I bet there's similar Spanish jargon words to describe things that Spanish horse nutters consider important.

SO, FIRST, gently caress YOU AND ALSO

J/k, of course. Yeah you are right on those, I know nothing about horses other than them being tasty and that they die if they think of ants. I was just trying to illustrate what I believe (without proof) is a trend.

Tbh, it was received knowledge when I studied linguistics, but actually I don't know.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 17:01

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

I thought this was vaporware bullshit but a pretty big Chinese think tank is talking about it, so I will just leave it here.

https://twitter.com/nextbigfuture/status/1696045973456450034?t=jKBLsGRPimcb0A1ljHKFVg&s=19

# ? Sep 6, 2023 18:13

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

unless the torpedo keeps moving at that speed once it leaves the tube i dont get the point

# ? Sep 6, 2023 18:20

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Raskolnikov38 posted:

unless the torpedo keeps moving at that speed once it leaves the tube i dont get the point

if it's moving at 435 mph instantaneously plus the 50 mph or whatever from the pump jet there would be less time for an enemy ship to react compared to a conventional torpedo accelerating to cruising speed. there's probably enough drawbacks for using it that it's dumb, though. i guess it would be good for a close range surprise attack

# ? Sep 6, 2023 18:32

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

i don't know if the combination is feasible, but if the chinese have figured out how to make supercavitating torpedoes and can use those in their coil gun you'd get the torpedo up to cruising speed immediately, which seems like it could have its advantages

# ? Sep 6, 2023 18:55

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

My rule of thumb is that if Russia can do a thing, china can definitely do it or at least will be able to very shortly

Russia has super cavitating torpedoes afaik

# ? Sep 6, 2023 18:58

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

i assumed it was to shoot the torpedo through the sky to get closer to the enemy ship, like this rocket assisted torpedo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUR-5_ASROC

# ? Sep 6, 2023 19:01

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Slavvy posted:

My rule of thumb is that if Russia can do a thing, china can definitely do it or at least will be able to very shortly

Russia has super cavitating torpedoes afaik

They're rated as an extremely potent threat, Shkval.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 20:35

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Torpedoes? Send more carriers!

# ? Sep 6, 2023 20:58

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

stephenthinkpad posted:

Japanese isn't even in the Sino Tibetan language family. They should have abandoned the Chinese character kanjis a long time ago.

Like around that time when that Japanese warlord tried to invade China via the Korean peninsula.

1936 seems a little late to do that

# ? Sep 6, 2023 21:50

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

gradenko_2000 posted:

Megamissen posted:

what the gently caress so they deliberately made it worse???

lol it works for everything

# ? Sep 6, 2023 21:52

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

gradenko_2000 posted:

what the gently caress so they deliberately made it worse???

anglosphere dot t x t

# ? Sep 6, 2023 22:15

9123: Sep 1, 2023

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-plans-vast-ai-fleet-to-counter-china-threat-4186a186

the Pentagon plans on spending "hundreds of millions of dollars" to create a RoboMilitary by September 2025

quote:

thousands of air-, land- and sea-based artificial-intelligence systems that are intended to be �small, smart, cheap.�

quote:

Autonomous �systems are things we might use for three to five years, before we move on to the next thing�as we must, given the dynamic, fast moving adversary and the pace of innovation,� Hick said.

:doomed:

# ? Sep 7, 2023 03:20

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

We have a dynamic and fast moving adversary, so therefore we must spend a bunch of money on dumb poo poo that doesn't even loving work.

# ? Sep 7, 2023 03:27

Complications: Jun 19, 2014

fighting in ways that we know would work is impossible now, therefore we must try ways that we don't know for sure won't

# ? Sep 7, 2023 03:37

9123: Sep 1, 2023

cat botherer posted:

We have a dynamic and fast moving adversary, so therefore we must spend a bunch of money on dumb poo poo that doesn't even loving work.

a lot of these weapons are cheap and disposable. who's the target then? a boat of 13 migrants in the mediterranean? innocent fishingpeople?

a fully autonomous military would cost any nation Trillions with China being the closest but not that close

9123 has issued a correction as of 03:54 on Sep 7, 2023

# ? Sep 7, 2023 03:52

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# ? May 26, 2024 05:25

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

9123 posted:

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-plans-vast-ai-fleet-to-counter-china-threat-4186a186

the Pentagon plans on spending "hundreds of millions of dollars" to create a RoboMilitary by September 2025

:doomed:

Terminator only failed in not realising 90% of computer poo poo is snake oil.

# ? Sep 7, 2023 03:53

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