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Tiny Timbs posted:It honestly feels like the story is being quasi-buried Agreed, this is incredibly problematic. Industry profits from war, okay, that is problematic. That sucks but it's a precedent as old as organized warfare. That a billionaire could foil a legitimate strike against an enemy that invaded its neighbor for illegitimate reasons, against near-universal condemnation, that is committing genocide against the nation it invaded. That has to be a war crime, or treason or something. I am probably way out of my league, is there not some sort of emergency measure Biden could enact to take away Musk's capacity to do things like this? Does he have so much power now that he can do things like this with impunity? That said, Ukraine bears part of the responsibility to invest so heavily in a company that has that much control over its war aims when it is headed by a loving lunatic.
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Sep 8, 2023 05:09
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Huggybear posted:That has to be a war crime, or treason or something. It is absolutely none of those things. Running your defense comms on donated wireless comms from an overseas, private provider is inherently risky. One of those risks is that the foreign private company might just turn off the free comms without warning or change their quality of service. Now that the US has a contract, there are contractual standards for starlink to uphold rather than whatever they decide to provide Ukraine for free as far as service.
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Sep 8, 2023 05:23
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Back Hack posted:That is a feature, not a bug! Well obviously, seagulls are not bats 🙄
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Sep 8, 2023 05:32
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mlmp08 posted:It is absolutely none of those things. Running your defense comms on donated wireless comms from an overseas, private provider is inherently risky. One of those risks is that the foreign private company might just turn off the free comms without warning or change their quality of service. very little of the service was actually free afaik. most of it was and still is individual units paying for starlink terminals. iirc the concession the company provided early on was providing a higher tier of service to users in Ukraine for no added cost, but I believe that actually ended pretty early on and that was when elon was in the news complaining about how much money it was costing the company and threatening to turn off the service if someone didn't start footing the bill, which was when the US apparently agreed to foot the bill. the 'we're giving them starlink for free' thing was just musk trying to extract goodwill out of a popular cause https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-starlink-spacex-military-use/32264837.html the 'free starlink' as described in here is, i believe, that the company was providing access to the starlink network itself to Ukraine. there's a whole bunch of bullshit swirling around about the arrangement with starlink/ukraine and musk et al have basically been able to say whatever the hell they want because Ukraine is very aware of just how hosed they are if starlink ever stops working and their needs and use of the service go far beyond whatever the US has specifically contracted for if you've got any particularly authoritative sources you can link on the subject I'd love to see them because I haven't seen much Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 05:42
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Yeah I doubt there is much to be done to Musk/Starlink in a direct legal manner unless contractual provisions were violated, but hoo boy Musk pissing off the defense establishment is the definition of a gently caress around and find out situation. They can apply pressure and pain in a million different indirect ways especially considering space X is almost completely dependent on government contracts to be profitable and Tesla on tax credits and pretty much everything Musk does besides twitter interacts with a lot of government regulation bodies.
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Sep 8, 2023 06:20
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D-Pad posted:Yeah I doubt there is much to be done to Musk/Starlink in a direct legal manner unless contractual provisions were violated, but hoo boy Musk pissing off the defense establishment is the definition of a gently caress around and find out situation. They can apply pressure and pain in a million different indirect ways especially considering space X is almost completely dependent on government contracts to be profitable and Tesla on tax credits and pretty much everything Musk does besides twitter interacts with a lot of government regulation bodies. I'm sure his stunt during the Ukrainian attack got him a real fun talking to that he's still fuming about inside but he won't dare do anything about. Not until the ketamine starts talking, anyways.
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Sep 8, 2023 06:51
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Nervous posted:I'm sure his stunt during the Ukrainian attack got him a real fun talking to that he's still fuming about inside but he won't dare do anything about. Not until the ketamine starts talking, anyways. So that's why he's been ranting about the Jews ruining him
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Sep 8, 2023 07:01
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The Artificial Kid posted:The point is you can’t snipe a hundred drones per second by predicting their paths and leading them with a single bullet, because they can add random bubble to their trajectory, or even (potentially) watch for muzzle flash 200 times per second and add a random dodge manoeuvre whenever that happens. Those drones you're talking about juking around may as well be effectively sitting still for the most part. Their juking is effective and impressive on human perception time scales but not on bullet time scales or vs a computerized aiming system with radar. It won't matter one bit if they can detect the muzzle flashes or not if by the time it takes for the drone to start to maneuver the projectile has already either hit the drone or exploded near the drone and 'shotgunned' it with fragments. Also the sorts of cheap mirrors you can that are light enough to put on tiny drones won't reflect lasers, were talking something like 30-100KW range (which already exists BTW), that are going to be used for anti drone duty. It'll burn holes right through them. You need special, and rather expensive and heavy for something covering most or all of the drone, mirrors to do that. Drones are going to change things but I think you're way overvaluing what their effect could be and letting some scifi vids influence your thoughts too much here.
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Sep 8, 2023 07:10
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Tuna-Fish posted:There are terminals/service in use from very many different sources. The first ones (iirc like 1500) were bought by USAID and shipped nominally only for relief work. SpaceX rounded the USAID shipment up to iirc 5000 with a direct donation, and then also said that starlinks operating in Ukraine don't need a paid contract. Then a lot of civilians started ordering starlinks in europe and shipping those to ukraine, numbers here are at least in the high tens of thousands, around this time they started being used for military communications a lot. Then SpaceX restricted areas where they could be used, and after some discussion, Pentagon directly purchased some from SpaceX and shipped them to Ukraine with separate (more expensive) contracts that let them operate them anywhere. I think at some point SpaceX also went back on the "starlinks operating in ukraine don't need a contract" thing, but I'm not sure. thanks for the info, i hadn't realized a big chunk was aid and civilian purchased if this is all the case, i'd presume turning off service in combat areas is in their legal rights for terminals and service contracts of civilian origin. anything directly contracted by the pentagon is a lot more iffy though, unless starlink somehow got some wild carveouts in whatever contract was signed edit: MikeC posted:I wonder if this assumes whether or not the Russians build new lines of defense as Ukrainians continue their push which they have been doing. i can see the concern, but there are three rebuttals i can think of. one, it assumes that new fortifications can be constructed/enhanced and defending troops become familiar with the ground at a rate that keeps pace with the ukrainian advances. two, it assumes that the terrain maintains more or less the same defensibility, when the initial series of lines would have naturally be on the best defensible ground in the area. third, and i think most important, is that on the southern front russia doesn't have an immense amount of ground to continually fall back on. for perspective, the tweet mentions that the work on the fortifications is 40km behind the line. if the the russians were driven back to works 40km south of robotyne that would put them well south of tokmak, a major road junction, and over halfway to melitopol, which would be the one remaining crossroad maintaining an overland connection between donetsk and crimea in the balance who knows, but if the ukrainians keep up the advance, and the russians aren't able to effectively counter attack, an entirely attritional end to the war isn't guarenteed GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 07:14
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i was wondering about general preparations for the winter and came across this press release from last month"european commission posted:The EU has reached its target of filling gas storage facilities to 90% of capacity roughly 2½ months ahead of the November 1 deadline, according to the latest figures released today by Gas Infrastructure Europe. Aimed at optimising EU preparation for the coming winter, the gas storage regulation of June 2022 set a binding EU target of 90% filling storage facilities by 1 November each year, with interim targets for EU countries. Gas storage is key for security of supply in Europe as it can cover up to one-third of the EU’s gas demand in winter. The figures published today show that gas storage levels have reached 1024 TWh or 90.12% of storage capacity (equivalent to just over 93 billion cubic metres (bcm) of natural gas). after the shaky situation this time last year, i find it a bit remarkable how well in hand the energy situation is in europe it just goes to show that despite the various bits of disfunction, the eu is not to be trifled with when all of its member states actually all move in unison
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Sep 8, 2023 10:40
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Huggybear posted:Agreed, this is incredibly problematic. Industry profits from war, okay, that is problematic. That sucks but it's a precedent as old as organized warfare. In a fair world, the optics alone on this should have been enough to make Musk radioactive from a business point of view. But in reality? Last month, Musk personally over-rode a ban on someone posting CSAM and said "we deleted the material and no one looked at it. This is fine." and so far he has had no consequences over that one.
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Sep 8, 2023 10:42
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Losses continue to pile up https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1700070078149013553
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Sep 8, 2023 10:49
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549 tanks captured also seems... impressive. Like sure quite a lot were probably only in condition to use for parts of what not but that's still a poo poo load of tanks.
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Sep 8, 2023 10:57
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i don't know how it stands now after the delivery of western armor and attrition from the counter offensive, but there was a period about a year ago where the majority of ukranian armor in service was captured from the russians
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Sep 8, 2023 11:01
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I wish everyone would quit giving Elon so much credit. He is first and foremost a complete liar. Starlink is not that great of a service, if Ukraine is controlling drones through it they could easily be losing connection due to poor bandwidth. I also sincerely doubt it’s even one of the top 5 most important thing for Ukraines communications.
i am a moron fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 12:57
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:it just goes to show that despite the various bits of disfunction, the eu is not to be trifled with when all of its member states actually all move in unison A dangerous thing to demonstrate, too. Like with Covid, showing that a large body like the EU can actually get poo poo done flies in the face of long-standing dogma of several large parties in member states that are firmly opposed to the idea of government solving people's problems. Covid brought the beginning of debt mutualisation, the energy crisis bought an impetus to integrate energy networks and drive electrification and decarbonisation using funding mechanisms introduced due to covid, and now the war is providing very good arguments for defense integration and cooperation. Couldn't have asked for a better set of crises if you are a European Federalist.
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Sep 8, 2023 13:07
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Antigravitas posted:A dangerous thing to demonstrate, too. Like with Covid, showing that a large body like the EU can actually get poo poo done flies in the face of long-standing dogma of several large parties in member states that are firmly opposed to the idea of government solving people's problems. Better yet: showing that a large, international body like the EU can actually get poo poo done flies in the face of even longer-standing dogma of several large parties in member states that it is not necessary, and perhaps even counterproductive, to weaken international organisations and attempt to solve everything at the national level.
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Sep 8, 2023 13:12
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i am a moron posted:I wish everyone would quit giving Elon so much credit. He is first and foremost a complete liar. Starlink is not that great of a service, if Ukraine is controlling drones through it they could easily be losing connection due to poor bandwidth. I also sincerely doubt it’s even one of the top 5 most important thing for Ukraines communications. While Musk is a complete lair and never to be trusted, there has been reports from Ukrainian army sources about Starlink, one being really useful for them, and also secondly being used and than suddenly going out after going into certain places which might be seen as "Russian owned", so he isn't the only one claiming that the Starlinks being used in Ukraine are being Geo-ristricted.
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Sep 8, 2023 13:18
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i am a moron posted:I wish everyone would quit giving Elon so much credit. He is first and foremost a complete liar. Starlink is not that great of a service, if Ukraine is controlling drones through it they could easily be losing connection due to poor bandwidth. I also sincerely doubt it’s even one of the top 5 most important thing for Ukraines communications. according to ukrainians it is very important
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Sep 8, 2023 13:23
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i am a moron posted:I wish everyone would quit giving Elon so much credit. He is first and foremost a complete liar. Starlink is not that great of a service, if Ukraine is controlling drones through it they could easily be losing connection due to poor bandwidth. I also sincerely doubt it’s even one of the top 5 most important thing for Ukraines communications. Jack Watling and Michael Koffman disagree. Both are opponents of the idea of wunderwaffen, both believe that force employment is more important than specific tactical capabilities, and both have written that if there's one thing that kept Ukraine in the fight in 2022, it was Starlink. Secure comms which are (for practical purposes) impossible for Russia to jam are more important than tanks, F-16s, or ATACMS.
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Sep 8, 2023 13:26
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dr_rat posted:While Musk is a complete lair and never to be trusted, there has been reports from Ukrainian army sources about Starlink, one being really useful for them, and also secondly being used and than suddenly going out after going into certain places which might be seen as "Russian owned", so he isn't the only one claiming that the Starlinks being used in Ukraine are being Geo-ristricted. I saw some claims at some point that Starlink was geofenced to prevent the Russians from using it, and this was causing some issues near the front line during offensives because of delayed and/or inaccurate information about how far UA forces have advanced. I also 100% believe Musk is playing games. My personal, admittedly speculative, theory is that there is likely a geofencing policy that is for good reasons, but Musk is periodically subverting it for his own dumb purposes.
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Sep 8, 2023 13:26
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Jarmak posted:My personal, admittedly speculative, theory is that there is likely a geofencing policy that is for good reasons, but Musk is periodically subverting it for his own dumb purposes. I can imagine geo-fencing being in place just for things like price and legislative reasons (some countries are pretty strict about how you access the internet). Also it's possible it's either made up, a case of existing geofencing loving up and them not bothering to fix it which seems quite unlikely, or him actually loving around to get some praise from the Russians/poo poo head fascist poo poo heads he talks to on twitter. At this point unless there's an investigation into it that's public/one day becomes public, we'll never know I guess. 
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Sep 8, 2023 13:56
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Ynglaur posted:Jack Watling and Michael Koffman disagree. Both are opponents of the idea of wunderwaffen, both believe that force employment is more important than specific tactical capabilities, and both have written that if there's one thing that kept Ukraine in the fight in 2022, it was Starlink. I might be taking for granted how exactly Ukraine is fighting the war. I’m not sure what’s okay to say/not say about the capabilities of it either, but how are radios not the comms lynchpin of like… any military? Using starlink (or any commercial ISP) runs counter to so many things I might be taking for granted. I don’t see how that could possibly be more secure than what I was taught to use. I really figured this is just Elon marketing himself again, ‘ooo look at me I can influence geopolitical stuff like wars’.
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Sep 8, 2023 14:16
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i am a moron posted:I might be taking for granted how exactly Ukraine is fighting the war. I’m not sure what’s okay to say/not say about the capabilities of it either, but how are radios not the comms lynchpin of like… any military? Using starlink (or any commercial ISP) runs counter to so many things I might be taking for granted. I don’t see how that could possibly be more secure than what I was taught to use. I really figured this is just Elon marketing himself again, ‘ooo look at me I can influence geopolitical stuff like wars’. Neither radio nor Internet are secure. That's why you used encryption for your comms. Internet just has more bandwidth.
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Sep 8, 2023 14:43
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Nenonen posted:Neither radio nor Internet are secure. That's why you used encryption for your comms. Internet just has more bandwidth. Radio can absolutely be secured in ways I am sure I can’t talk about on an Internet forum but may be public knowledge idk. Way, way more secure than running data over a consumer ISP. Seems like a giant loving opsec problem Edit: like I said I might be take some things for granted. Seems loving bananas something as basic as, like, the first thing I was taught as a radio jockey isn’t available to Ukrainians i am a moron fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 14:47
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i am a moron posted:Radio can absolutely be secured in ways I am sure I can’t talk about on an Internet forum but may be public knowledge idk. Way, way more secure than running data over a consumer ISP. Seems like a giant loving opsec problem Yes, just like over Internet or telephone lines. Radio is just a medium, it can't be trusted any more than the other media.
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Sep 8, 2023 14:51
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I dont think you know what you’re talking about.
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Sep 8, 2023 14:52
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i am a moron posted:I dont think you know what you’re talking about. Apparently. Either you know this better than Ukrainians themselves, or you don't have a clue either
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Sep 8, 2023 15:10
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i am a moron posted:Radio can absolutely be secured in ways I am sure I can’t talk about on an Internet forum but may be public knowledge idk. Way, way more secure than running data over a consumer ISP. Seems like a giant loving opsec problem What, like spread spectrum frequency hopping?
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Sep 8, 2023 15:16
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i am a moron posted:I dont think you know what you’re talking about. I think you're mistaking your specific domain knowledge for a much broader understanding than it really is.
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Sep 8, 2023 15:20
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‘How am I in this war?’: The untold story of Elon Musk’s support for Ukraine https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/elon-musk-starlink-ukraine-russia-invasion/ This is marked as an opinion column, so take it as you will, but it's a good writeup and summary of this whole issue with Elon. Basically he was happy to wear the superhero cape initially until he was threatened by the Russian ambassador and then he folded like a house of cards. I'm going to try and phone post some excerpts but I'll be skipping a lot of the summary part. About the sub attack that Musk personally thwarted: quote:By September, however, both Musk and military leaders in Ukraine and the United States were realizing the complexity of their relationship. One Friday evening that month, just after spending a week with Musk, I was back home in New Orleans watching a football game at my old high school. (The occasion was that it was one of the final games for the school’s superstar quarterback, Arch Manning.) My phone started vibrating with messages from Musk. Musk continues to be a giant loving idiot w/r/t historical and geopolitical issues. On the additional restrictions: quote:In early October, Musk extended his restrictions on the use of Starlink for offensive operations by disabling some of its coverage in the Russian-controlled regions of southern and eastern Ukraine. This resulted in another flurry of calls and highlighted the outsize role that Starlink was playing. Neither Ukraine nor the United States had been able to find any other communication systems that could match Starlink or fend off attacks from Russian hackers. Feeling unappreciated, he suggested that SpaceX was no longer willing to bear some of the financial burden. Musk shouldn't be anywhere near this conversations ffs. quote:Fedorov: The exclusion of these territories is absolutely unfair. I come from Vasylivka village in Zaporizhzhia region, my parents and friends live there. Now this village is occupied by Russian troops, and there is complete lawlessness and outrage—the residents are impatiently waiting for liberation. . . . At the end of September, we noticed that Starlink does not work in the liberated villages, which makes it impossible to restore the critical infrastructure of these territories. For us it is a matter of life and death. Edit- added some bold ummel fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 15:20
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i am a moron posted:I dont think you know what you’re talking about. Anything you can do to keep radio signals secret you can also do on a transmission line, and anything you can do on a transmission line (other than maybe some freaky quantum poo poo) you can simulate via the internet.
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Sep 8, 2023 15:21
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Lol now I see why the russian government loves to just throw the nuclear threats around all the time, sometimes it works!
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Sep 8, 2023 15:23
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Starlink has to be very high on the priority list for Russian Electronic Warfare operators. The blackouts could very easily be the result of jamming. e. per effort post above Musk really is geofencing. What a loving tool. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 15:34
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I spoke personally to Vladimir Putin... 's representative. He told me I was a big important man and I was about to save the world
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Sep 8, 2023 15:44
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My first car was a stick
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OctaMurk posted:Lol now I see why the russian government loves to just throw the nuclear threats around all the time, sometimes it works! Only, as it turns out, on one hopelessly mentally regressed person.
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Sep 8, 2023 15:44
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Has a virus or back door ever been "contracted" by radio? I wonder if you could spoof a radio transmitter and highjack a drone that way.
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Sep 8, 2023 15:58
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Can you jam a satellite connection (without attacking the satellite itself)?
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Sep 8, 2023 15:58
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russians itt trying to bait people into breaking opsec.
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Sep 8, 2023 16:00
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TheRat posted:Can you jam a satellite connection (without attacking the satellite itself)? Sure, just get line of sight to one of the ends of the connection and spit enough random noise at it that it can't tell signal from noise. Getting line of sight to the satellite is easy, but you need a beefy transmitter to be able to overpower whatever other transmitters are talking to it. Getting line of sight to the ground receiver is trickier, but if you can get there then it's pretty simple to jam.
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Sep 8, 2023 16:03
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