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What do you think of the new international distribution deal? This poll is closed. |
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| Hate it |
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12 | 16.90% |
| REALLY hate it |
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16 | 22.54% |
| Hello, my name is Bob Chapek |
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43 | 60.56% |
| Total: | 71 votes | ||
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Killing the Time Lords and having the Master regenerate yet again, completely forgoing Missy's character development. It's like Chibnall wanted to say gently caress you to Moffat.
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Sep 8, 2023 17:04
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:52 |
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armpit_enjoyer posted:Killing the Time Lords and having the Master regenerate yet again, completely forgoing Missy's character development. It's like Chibnall wanted to say gently caress you to Moffat. Which is going to be especially dumb when someone comes in to clarify that the Master is the unlimited regenerations one, as a way to finally make Chibnall make some goddamn sense. And that won't be done out of spite, but out of pity, because it's not like Chibnall is worthy of contempt. OldMemes posted:The Doctor says she was given a second childhood, and the annual that year confirmed that the Doctor only had a standard Time Lord body with a normal regeneration cycle, so they did need that boost from the Time Lords. The Doctor is effectively a entirely seperate creature made from the Timeless Child. The entire retcon is pointless. Ok, thanks. I never read the annuals, so that seems like a major bit of information to never be conveyed on screen, since I don't remember the "second childhood" thing but probably assumed it was supposed to be metaphorical for the mind-wipe scenario. Man, I hate thinking about the Timeless Child concept.
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Sep 8, 2023 17:08
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OldMemes posted:The Doctor says she was given a second childhood, and the annual that year confirmed that the Doctor only had a standard Time Lord body with a normal regeneration cycle, so they did need that boost from the Time Lords. The Doctor is effectively a entirely seperate creature made from the Timeless Child. The entire retcon is pointless. Bolded part mine. Yeah, it ties itself up in knots so much to make any kind of even superficial sense and even setting aside the distaste for "the Doctor is secretly a key element in creating a core aspect of the Time Lords as know them and also a super special mysterious alien from another universe because being a mysterious alien from this universe apparently isn't enough anymore?" my takeaway of the whole thing is,"What was even the point of any of this?" It apparently didn't change anything, didn't add anything, didn't go anywhere or have any reason for existing beyond Chibnall apparently wanting to give whatever weird idea he had about the Doctor's origins the "official" stamp. Others have done it before with mixed results, Moffat did the whole thing with the orphanage etc, but at least that seemed to have a clear point (or at least some kind of idea of what) it was trying to make in service to a greater story, whether people were for it or against it. The Timeless Child I just don't get at all, and tossing in the wholesale slaughter of the Time Lords AGAIN, reanimating the corpses as Cybermen and setting them out into the universe got essentially zero reaction from Thirteen who just seemed to treat it like some detached from emotion fact of history. The way she acts you'd think even she just figured,"Well this isn't going to last so might as well just move on with my life!"
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Sep 8, 2023 17:13
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Class3KillStorm posted:Which is going to be especially dumb when someone comes in to clarify that the Master is the unlimited regenerations one, as a way to finally make Chibnall make some goddamn sense. And that won't be done out of spite, but out of pity, because it's not like Chibnall is worthy of contempt. It would actually be kind of hilarious if all those times the Time Lords wouldn't give the Master a new cycle of regenerations turns out to be because he doesn't need them and if he'd just stopped trying to puppeteer corpses/steal bodies/nick the Doctor's and just died he would have immediately regenerated. The War Master getting a new set turns out to be the Time Lords just figuring they'd deal with his bullshit when he got to the "end" of the next "cycle"  Class3KillStorm posted:Man, I hate thinking about the Timeless Child concept.    Whether I like some of the ideas in Who or not (I really dislike this one, clearly), I at least enjoy trying to figure out how it makes sense/ties in with everything else, but this whole thing just... doesn't. It's maddening.
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Sep 8, 2023 17:15
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Look if they can gloss over the wholesale destruction of most of reality then they can gloss over that whole bit. I would wager the new show direction hears loud and clear every homie hates timeless child in concept and execution and they can either plaster over it or just refuse to engage. I have no evidence for this just wishful belief.
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Sep 8, 2023 17:47
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The_Doctor posted:The musical sting for that moment is really great too. As you say, it’s proper ‘THE GODS ARE HERE’ time. Also, kudos to Nick Briggs for managing to make the Daleks sound like they're making GBS threads their pants. 
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Sep 8, 2023 18:35
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Khanstant posted:Look if they can gloss over the wholesale destruction of most of reality then they can gloss over that whole bit. I would wager the new show direction hears loud and clear every homie hates timeless child in concept and execution and they can either plaster over it or just refuse to engage. I have no evidence for this just wishful belief. My money is on never talking about it again. In thirty years time someone who was thirteen when The Timeless Child aired will pick up the plot again.
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Sep 8, 2023 20:05
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The whole “Timeless Child/Master’s Entirely Off-Screen Genocide Of The Timelords” thing really reads as the work of a showrunner who doesn’t really care about lore etc. It reads as something from the hypothetical Eighth Doctor US series, had the TV Movie gone to season. And yet, and yet, Chibnall clearly cares about lore and the fictional universe. Truly baffling, the whole thing.
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Sep 8, 2023 20:12
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Chibnall struck me as someone writing a wiki entry about a show rather than writing a show.
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Sep 8, 2023 20:18
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Isn't there some footage of him as a teen on a tv show complaining about the current doctor who writing?
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Sep 8, 2023 21:05
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Boxturret posted:Isn't there some footage of him as a teen on a tv show complaining about the current doctor who writing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCe3owO7wY&t=278s To be fair, it was a Pip 'n' Jane story! When he took over running the show, he quite smartly mentioned that he regretted what he said at the time.
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Sep 8, 2023 21:12
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Fil5000 posted:Chibnall struck me as someone writing a wiki entry about a show rather than writing a show. Chibnall clearly came up with some wacky kids fan theory about the pictures of the additional Doctors in whatever that old episode was and apparently dedicated his entire life to making that theory official. Which as goons I think we can all begrudgingly respect. The Timeless Child poo poo I can just ignore. The bit where they blew up 9/10ths of the universe and turned the Timelords into Cybermen, then just didn't deal with any repercussions is....fun. I suspect RTD will have to write and then immediately mash a nice big reset button pretty early on, like Moffatt did with the cracks in time, to draw a line under all that poo poo.
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Sep 8, 2023 21:36
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Matinee posted:The whole “Timeless Child/Master’s Entirely Off-Screen Genocide Of The Timelords” thing really reads as the work of a showrunner who doesn’t really care about lore etc. The more that the writers care about the lore the worse the episode generally is. Late McCoy is basically the only exception
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Sep 8, 2023 22:02
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Easy fix: The Doctor was never The Timeless Child, The Pocket Watch is a prison for the Old God style Time Lords and the whole thing was to engineer an escape. Jo Doctor is from an undetermined number of Regenerations down the line and was just lying because that's a thing The Doctor does and the plan was to stop the escape but plans never work right. Season 6b happened, the CIA used The Doctor to imprison the OG's, and that's why they were rubbish in colour, got killed, and are now just footsoldiers that can't die. Retire the Cybermen. There was an "Actual" Timeless Child, but the Old Gods vivisected her to create the Regeneration cycles and thus anyone that Regenerates with the same method is a "Timeless Child". Lets make Sacha's Master a Pre-Delgado one as well. Any unresolved issues will be explained away as "Memory and/or Matrix poo poo" and "Psychic safeguards" OK, not easy and wouldn't work, but I did it anyway.
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Sep 8, 2023 22:52
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Really you can just boil it down in its simplest form to "The Master lied." The backing evidence for this is EVERY EPISODE THE MASTER HAS EVER APPEARED IN.
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Sep 8, 2023 22:58
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Jerusalem posted:Bolded part mine. Yeah, it ties itself up in knots so much to make any kind of even superficial sense and even setting aside the distaste for "the Doctor is secretly a key element in creating a core aspect of the Time Lords as know them and also a super special mysterious alien from another universe because being a mysterious alien from this universe apparently isn't enough anymore?" my takeaway of the whole thing is,"What was even the point of any of this?" It apparently didn't change anything, didn't add anything, didn't go anywhere or have any reason for existing beyond Chibnall apparently wanting to give whatever weird idea he had about the Doctor's origins the "official" stamp. This in particular is really funny to me, because it's this big revelation that answers a question the viewers aren't asking "Where did the time lords get this power from?" and leaves them with a new question they may actually then be asking "So then, where did the Doctor get this power from?" which the episode is not curious about at all. The Doctor is just from somewhere else. The End.
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Sep 8, 2023 22:59
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Jerusalem posted:The backing evidence for this is EVERY EPISODE THE MASTER HAS EVER APPEARED IN. Except Trial where he acts as an info dump for some reason
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Sep 8, 2023 23:12
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Jerusalem posted:Really you can just boil it down in its simplest form to "The Master lied." I wanted to get rid of the bad Time Lords too, I WANT GODS OF TIME! MrL_JaKiri posted:Except Trial where he acts as an info dump for some reason The writer died and hadn't left notes.
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Sep 8, 2023 23:24
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Jerusalem posted:Bolded part mine. Yeah, it ties itself up in knots so much to make any kind of even superficial sense and even setting aside the distaste for "the Doctor is secretly a key element in creating a core aspect of the Time Lords as know them and also a super special mysterious alien from another universe because being a mysterious alien from this universe apparently isn't enough anymore?" my takeaway of the whole thing is,"What was even the point of any of this?" It apparently didn't change anything, didn't add anything, didn't go anywhere or have any reason for existing beyond Chibnall apparently wanting to give whatever weird idea he had about the Doctor's origins the "official" stamp. If you must do the Cyberlords, why in the world would you waste them by making them reanimating zombies versus the Cybermen-as-zombies? They should have all the cunning and intelligence (and bumbling about) that the Time Lords demonstrate. Have one of them jump the Doctor, get knocked down, and then say "Oy, it's me, your old pal Drax!" Sure, new viewers won't get the reference immediately, but you can have the Doctor explain after they finish hurling that Cyberlord into a nearby star. Seriously, after the late old-series Cybermen, this move by Chibnall offers the show the opportunity to make its Cybermen even more camp, and it's been wasted. I want Cyberlords sitting in a TARDIS debating whether or not to go to amber alert. I don't want them shooting at the Doctor, I want them complaining icily about his propensity for vulgar facetiousness. (I guess I actually want Bob Holmes back...)
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Sep 9, 2023 01:10
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Narsham posted:(I guess I actually want Bob Holmes back...) ....yeah....  The ironic thing being Robert Holmes is the guy who did the dumb extra faces bit in The Brain of Morbius in the first place! It's just that, apart from that, he was arguably the best writer Who ever had, and yes I'm aware Douglas Adams worked on the show too  MrL_JaKiri posted:Except Trial where he acts as an info dump for some reason I guess there, the Master's desire to be an absolute dick and gently caress up somebody else's plans temporarily overwhelmed his chronic lying. The Valeyard's "This motherfucker...." face as The Master fucks up all his carefully laid plans for absolutely no reason just cracks me up.
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Sep 9, 2023 01:58
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There’s also logic behind Holmes deciding the Morbius Doctors being pre-Hartnell incarnations - in Caves of Androzani (written by Holmes), the Doctor says the regeneration feels different this time. Since there were 8 Morbius Doctors, that would make Davison the 13th and at the end of his regeneration cycles. Makes sense it would feel different…
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Sep 9, 2023 02:18
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Yeah, he wanted to do a "final" regeneration story and tried to set it up in The Brain of Morbius, the idea basically got dumped by whoever the script editor/producer was at the time despite the production team having a laugh by dressing up for the pictures, and he just threw in the "it feels different this time" line as a nod to the original idea. That was the end of it for decades, with multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple instances of demonstrating Hartnell was the first incarnation of Doctor over that time. Then Chibnall decided to "fix" the "problem" of The Brain of Morbius and "solve" it. 
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Sep 9, 2023 02:27
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Holmes was also the guy who came up with the whole Season 6b thing so he just enjoyed throwing a wrench in the works. He was good enough to get away with it.
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Sep 9, 2023 02:37
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Maxwell Lord posted:Holmes was also the guy who came up with the whole Season 6b thing so he just enjoyed throwing a wrench in the works. He was good enough to get away with it. I don’t think Holmes intentionally made up Season 6B - IIRC he got confused and either thought Troughton did Time Lord missions like Pertwee, or got Pertwee and Troughton confused.
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Sep 9, 2023 02:48
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It does give some wriggle room for the Fugitive Doctor to make some sense at least, including having a TARDIS disguised as a police box. Which is good, because for as much as I disliked the Timeless Child bullshit, Jo Martin was fantastic casting and I'd love to see her back. Still mad that Whittaker's run didn't include a scene of the Fugitive Doctor being scooped back up by the Time Lords who decided it was best to wipe her memories and reset her regenerations since they couldn't rely on using her for missions anymore, leading into Pertwee stumbling out of the TARDIS from Spearhead from Space (shot on film and thus available in HD!). Three already has the "the Time Lords did something to my mind, there's information I can't access!" thing going on during his early years! He even refers to having lived "thousands of years" at one point! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 02:52
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As many problems as there are with the Timeless Child concept what I liked was that we might from now on just run into random Doctors we’d never heard of before and they’d all be “canon”, but Chibnall seemed to actually back away because of the backlash and we never saw anything beyond Martin (who was awesome to be sure.)
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Sep 10, 2023 02:20
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That also sounds like a kind of cheap trick that could work once before being a bit "This again?"
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Sep 10, 2023 04:07
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Jerusalem posted:The ironic thing being Robert Holmes is the guy who did the dumb extra faces bit in The Brain of Morbius in the first place! It's just that, apart from that, he was arguably the best writer Who ever had, and yes I'm aware Douglas Adams worked on the show too Holmes and Chris Boucher (RIP) are two of the best writers the BBC ever had, no arguably about it
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Sep 10, 2023 16:59
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Maxwell Lord posted:As many problems as there are with the Timeless Child concept what I liked was that we might from now on just run into random Doctors we’d never heard of before and they’d all be “canon”, but Chibnall seemed to actually back away because of the backlash and we never saw anything beyond Martin (who was awesome to be sure.) What would be the point of random, undeveloped extra incarnations? It worked with the War Doctor because aside from them casting John Hurt, we'd already had lots of context for the Doctor and the Time War. If you're going to add random incarnations who show up for the sake of it, it's no different to The Brain of Moribus production crew messing about with old BBC costumes for a lark.
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Sep 10, 2023 19:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7hO8Zx4ATs
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Sep 10, 2023 20:03
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It's nicely done, but the psychedelic imagery of The Second Doctor spinning away into a blur has a really nightmarish feel that tops off the 60s nicely.
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Sep 10, 2023 20:10
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 the state of cover art over at Big Finish has me this close to just making my own and asking BF for a job because these are embarrassing and it'd be hard to do a worse job
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Sep 10, 2023 20:15
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I wish they didn't feel the need to have as many faces as possible on the cover.
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Sep 10, 2023 21:00
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Good god why does Jackie look like she just got out of a tanning booth 
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Sep 10, 2023 21:06
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They should do one where he regenerates into Jo Martin, really throw the cat amongst the pigeons.
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Sep 10, 2023 21:37
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 They way they've put Liz's face on a body lopsided in this one is proper uncanny. Just use an exisiting image of Caroline John if you can't get it to look right. Shame, because they've had some great covers recently, especially in the Third Doctor Range! Apparently they don't use images from the TV Movie to represent late 7th Doctor/Early 8 anymore because of legal uncertainities. Which has lead to some....interesting workarounds when they need images of the characters in those eras. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 10, 2023 |
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Sep 10, 2023 21:43
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Class3KillStorm posted:Which is going to be especially dumb when someone comes in to clarify that the Master is the unlimited regenerations one, as a way to finally make Chibnall make some goddamn sense. And that won't be done out of spite, but out of pity, because it's not like Chibnall is worthy of contempt.
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Sep 11, 2023 02:09
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Vinylshadow posted:Good god why does Jackie look like she just got out of a tanning booth I mean it is Jackie, she almost certainly has
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Sep 11, 2023 04:28
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Confusedslight posted:I wish they didn't feel the need to have as many faces as possible on the cover. Apparently this is an internal mandate. Faces of regulars in the story, and one or two guest stars and/or monsters. Marketing driven decisions. Briggs has been known to map out designs for cover artists to follow, too. These once and future covers are all very bad, but they're not paying the cover designers enough for the to e.g. check that the AI art for Georgia Tennant's CG hand doesn't have fingernails growing through the back of its fingers. (Though this was changed.) It's loving terrible.
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Sep 11, 2023 04:29
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:52 |
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The_Doctor posted:They should do one where he regenerates into Jo Martin, really throw the cat amongst the pigeons. Straight up assumed that's what it would be before I clicked on it! Really enjoyed the 1970/1980 joke
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Sep 11, 2023 04:52
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