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Here in Australia we lovingly call him Tolko
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Aug 9, 2023 03:05
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:51 |
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Yeah, and we call Frodo- Uh- Hmm.
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Aug 9, 2023 03:30
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Tree Bucket posted:Yeah, and we call Frodo- Frozza Bagso
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Aug 9, 2023 10:36
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Maura
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Aug 9, 2023 10:44
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Tree Bucket posted:Yeah, and we call Frodo- Bruce Along with his trusted friends Pippo, Docco and Gam. And of course his companions G-dog, Azza, Boz, Leggo and Stretch
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Aug 9, 2023 13:49
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TOLL ROAD
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Aug 9, 2023 18:20
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Dost thou come from a land down under?
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Aug 10, 2023 01:02
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Doll Ken
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Aug 10, 2023 11:18
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Trin Tragula posted:Dost thou come from a land down under? Where the ales do flow and hobbits chunder
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Aug 10, 2023 11:31
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That said, the actual lines of "where women glow and men plunder" actually is quite Tolkien-ish
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Aug 10, 2023 12:08
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Shira’s full mate
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Aug 12, 2023 11:00
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‘I will,’ said Aragorn heavily. ‘You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!’ How might Aragorn had this power of premonition ?
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Sep 9, 2023 17:25
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euphronius posted:‘I will,’ said Aragorn heavily. ‘You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!’ Moria being bad news is just common sense
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Sep 9, 2023 17:36
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euphronius posted:‘I will,’ said Aragorn heavily. ‘You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!’ Because Aragorn is magical and of pure Numenorean blood.
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Sep 9, 2023 17:37
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He'd been through Moria before and probably got the evil vibes.
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Sep 9, 2023 17:38
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Got a flash of premonition from God himself, presumably
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Sep 9, 2023 17:41
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Aragorn had been dicking around Rivendell and like the Arnor region with his rangers for decades. I am sure having zero good word out of Moria in that entire time was probably weighing on his mind.
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Sep 9, 2023 17:47
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Doesn't he have a line later where he feels bad about saying that?
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Sep 9, 2023 17:54
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None of these "Moria is bad news in general" answers address the question of why he's warning Gandalf specifically and personally, not the others
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Sep 9, 2023 17:58
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Because Gandalf's the one making the decision to go there? Gandalf who himself knows it's a bad idea, they just don't have any better option left.
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Sep 9, 2023 18:02
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Sometimes you get visions or warnings in Middle Earth - Frodo had a vision of Gandalf in Isengard, for instance, albeit after the fact of his escape. Elrond has the gift of prophecy as well.
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Sep 9, 2023 18:07
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Prophesy matters in middle earth, it's a real big deal when someone makes one. Even just in an off the cuff remark. Aragorn specifically knows that Gandalf will find his end in moria, even if he doesn't know why. I always just chalk up these passages to divine intervention.
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Sep 9, 2023 18:29
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Yeah I think it’s a god given message but why (Besides foreshadowing obviously )
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Sep 9, 2023 19:02
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euphronius posted:Yeah I think it’s a god given message but why The Valar really didn't want the hassle of sending his rear end back
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Sep 9, 2023 19:09
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I guess Gandalf even knew he was going to die so it’s wasn’t a secret to the Wise
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Sep 9, 2023 19:10
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As I recall, weren't they sneaking pretty successfully since they were just in the upper chambers and nobody else was around them, but then Pippin's fool rear end had to go and drop a rock down a well?
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Sep 9, 2023 19:13
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Gollum was tracking them the whole time. Sauron had sent orcs there as a trap. They had also set a trap up in the Second Hall.
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Sep 9, 2023 19:19
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wonder if Gollum saw the Balrog fight
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Sep 9, 2023 19:32
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Nessus posted:As I recall, weren't they sneaking pretty successfully since they were just in the upper chambers and nobody else was around them, but then Pippin's fool rear end had to go and drop a rock down a well?
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Sep 9, 2023 19:32
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euphronius posted:Yeah I think it’s a god given message but why I think the message was sent to, ironically, reassure Gandalf, who was perfectly willing to die on this quest but may have had lingering doubts about Moria being too dangerous for the Ringbearer and the others. The prophecy sort of indirectly says that they will all get through unscathed, and it is only Gandalf that has to beware. the big flaw in this idea is that Gandalf didn't really seem to need that reassurance, as he was pretty certain that going to Moria was the correct call anyway.
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Sep 9, 2023 20:46
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euphronius posted:Gollum was tracking them the whole time. Sauron had sent orcs there as a trap. They had also set a trap up in the Second Hall. On the other hand, Gollum wouldn’t have wanted the orcs to interfere, Sauron probably sent his troops there as a general precaution, and the orcs had almost two days to set up their trap from the time Pippin dropped the stone.
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Sep 9, 2023 21:23
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I didn't get the feeling those were Sauron's troops there, they were probably similar to the guys in Goblin-town and were in thrall to the Balrog if anything. Obviously if they'd found the Ring Sauron could have just sent the Nazgul in there to take it. It might have been spicier if the Balrog had seized the Ring.
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Sep 9, 2023 21:53
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The discussion where Aragorn says beware to Gandalf is had at the foot of Caradhras as they debate what to do next. It's important to remember what they know at the time and not judge this by what we know on our 69th re-read.quote:I would not lead you into Moria if there were no hope of coming out again. If there are Orcs there, it may prove ill for us, that is true. But most of the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were scattered or destroyed in the Battle of Five Armies. The Eagles report that Orcs are gathering again from afar; but there is a hope that Moria is still free. This all seems quite reasonable and hopeful first time through; with hindsight there's some lovely little bits of ironic foreshadowing here as they discuss the situation. The first is that of course they will find Balin in the Chamber of Mazarbul, although not as they hope to. The second is "tread the path that need chooses!" This one pays off almost immediately; at the time it's said, their choice of way is an open question. The discussion continues with most of the Company (Aragorn, Pippin, Sam, Legolas, Boromir, Frodo) expressing serious doubts about Moria; and finishes with hearing wolf-howls, at which point Boromir, the staunchest opponent, immediately gives up any thought of going further south, and it becomes the path of need. The third, as the discussion wraps up, is Sam trying to comfort a wavering Pippin with "Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf's belly." Indeed so, Master Samwise. And, along those lines, of course Aragorn's warning proves horribly accurate, but also turns out to be a key factor in the series of chances and happenstances that save the Quest from failure and the world from ruin. I don't think it needs to be directly divinely inspired to show that the very wise cannot see all ends, and making a good decision is about more than having perfect information, or foresight. (Compare this to, say, Sam's vision in the Mirror, which grants him an accurate view of what's happening in the Shire, and he makes a good decision not to act on it.)
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Sep 9, 2023 21:59
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Nessus posted:I didn't get the feeling those were Sauron's troops there, they were probably similar to the guys in Goblin-town and were in thrall to the Balrog if anything. Obviously if they'd found the Ring Sauron could have just sent the Nazgul in there to take it. It might have been spicier if the Balrog had seized the Ring. There are some Mordor troops in there. Gandalf specifically mentions them when he goes to look at the door of Mazarbul: they are probably the same guys the Book of Mazarbul refers to who showed up in Dimrill Dale one day, killed Balin, and then marched right up and penned the rest of the dwarves in.
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Sep 10, 2023 00:12
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This discussion: Not pictured: Aragon going “I told you so!”
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Sep 10, 2023 01:40
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Predicting Gandalf’s death in Moria is not Aragorn’s only prophetic statement. He also says, before going through the paths of the dead, that he and Eomer will meet again even if all the orcs of Mordor stand between them, which also comes true. And Eomer directly comments that he didn’t realize Aragorn was “a man foresighted”. This seems to be a Dunedain thing. Halbarad knows that he will die after taking the paths of the dead. Most of the major players are probably getting messages from Ulmo if they’re attuned enough.
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Sep 10, 2023 16:00
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YaketySass posted:The Valar really didn't want the hassle of sending his rear end back Fairly sure the Valar had nothing to do with that, though I'm certainly open to correction?
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Sep 11, 2023 16:17
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Barry Foster posted:Fairly sure the Valar had nothing to do with that, though I'm certainly open to correction? LOTR itself doesn’t make it particularly clear, but yes, it was God proper, not the gods. Letter 156 posted:[Gandalf was originally sent to Middle-earth] by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. ‘Naked I was sent back — for a brief time, until my task is done.’ Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the ‘gods’ whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed ‘out of thought and time.’
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Sep 11, 2023 16:27
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Gandalf doesn’t say who sent him back. He uses the passive voice to hide the identity (Tolkien often does this when talking about when gods or god did something . Like the “ring was rolled into the sea”) so it could be Valar or eru. Sticking to the books here Tolkien says in a letter it was probably Eru Edit What skaison says.
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Sep 11, 2023 16:29
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:51 |
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It’s very strange. Gandalf “should” have gone back to valinor. I don’t really get why he left the universe and then Gandalf the white was sent by Eru. I don’t get why the second Gandalf can remember anything about the first one other than Eru printed memories in his head. Is the corpse of the first Gandalf still on top of the mountains ? Yes I would think Who knows.
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Sep 11, 2023 16:35
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