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Phenotype posted:So do I have this right? Idk why she wasn't killed by the sword and cut throat but she was starting to channel something before Moiraine came in to the room so maybe that had something to do with it. Could have been a lot of different things but I suspect we'll find out pretty quickly. It's understandable that Moiraine didn't want to stick around though because as far as she knows the forsaken have all kinds of powers she can't imagine.
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Sep 9, 2023 18:53
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Gwaihir posted:Idk why she wasn't killed by the sword and cut throat but she was starting to channel something before Moiraine came in to the room so maybe that had something to do with it. Could have been a lot of different things but I suspect we'll find out pretty quickly. Especially because the last time she had a direct encounter with of them he just straight up stilled her while he was even still bound up in his seal. So yeah, I get why she's not loving around with Forsaken and her reaction is just "kill* and run" now.
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Sep 9, 2023 18:57
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i say swears online posted:foregate plays so prominently but I can't tell which exit it's supposed to be against
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Sep 9, 2023 19:42
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I have one major problem with this show, i can't remember anyones names outside of Rand and Lann.
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Sep 9, 2023 19:48
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Look it's really simple there's Logain and Egwene and Elayne and Alanna and Lan and Leane, why is this so confusing?
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Sep 9, 2023 19:50
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Tam should be easy. edit: And Mat!
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Sep 9, 2023 19:51
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twistedmentat posted:I have one major problem with this show, i can't remember anyones names outside of Rand and Lann.
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Sep 9, 2023 19:59
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Wait'll you read the books where there is Moiraine and Moridin and Morin and Mierin and Marin and Morin and Marc Maron
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Sep 9, 2023 19:59
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There's Sauron, Saruman, Sidious, and Sifo Dious
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Sep 9, 2023 20:00
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Amazon X-Ray is really useful.
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Sep 9, 2023 20:03
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And Lelaine and Fain and Faolain and Falion and Flinn and Faile and Fel and Faeldrin and Theodrin
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Sep 9, 2023 20:07
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The prophecy scene near the end of episode 4 went from mentioning Lan in one sentence to talking about Lanfear in the next. That must have confused someone.
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Sep 9, 2023 20:23
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Lan fears Lanfear.
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Sep 9, 2023 20:27
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twistedmentat posted:I have one major problem with this show, i can't remember anyones names outside of Rand and Lann. Press pause any time you forget, there is a cast list/character names of whoever is in the scene
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Sep 9, 2023 20:43
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All I'm saying is that two minutes to chop off her hands and feet, throw em in a sack, and huck em in the river, and I bet it'd keep her preoccupied for at least a few episodes.
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Sep 9, 2023 20:45
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I'm enjoying the season so far. It's been pretty good. I think the only storyline I don't really care for is Perrin's.
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Sep 9, 2023 20:52
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Another really solid episode. I have very little else to say about it. Nice double reveal of Liandrin and Selene being Darkfriends/Forsaken.
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Sep 9, 2023 21:18
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Phenotype posted:All I'm saying is that two minutes to chop off her hands and feet, throw em in a sack, and huck em in the river, and I bet it'd keep her preoccupied for at least a few episodes. It's the typical issue of fantasy stories/shows. The protagonist or antagonist is only as strong or as capable as the plot allows in that very moment. I'm a non-booker reader and so far I don't think the show has done a good job of establishing the "power levels" or what can reasonably be expected or characters or what is a threat and what isn't (and to which degree). It is really all over the place and while they might later explain why Rand's "gf" has the powers she has or what these are, it isn't really helpful for the moment. You are expected to just go along with the typical fantasy/TV trope that she is on one hand "invincinble" and such a threat that even Rand can't do anything in that situation and yet she gets surprised by Moiraine and taken out just long enough by a sword so our heroes can escape. Isn't that convenient. I'm also sure that future ep's will totally not show that they COULD have done more in the situation OR that Rand's gf really shouldn't have been taken out in that specific manner. I'm also curious why this whole convoluted scheme by Rand's gf was necessary. She was obviously doing something to him (sucking up his power?) but I have no idea why it was required for him to be with her in bed and why she couldn't have done the same thing a lot earlier (they weren't together for the first time). So why did she decide to reveal herself and do whatever she wanted to do in that moment and not before? What was the inciting event outside of the fact that it was convenient for the story because Rand had just finished his little character subplot? I mean it can't be the reveal that he is who he is because she obviously must have known that before, she certainly didn't just spent time with a random dude who turned out to be the chosen one.
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Sep 9, 2023 23:38
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She was having magic evil sex with him.
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Sep 10, 2023 00:26
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LinkesAuge posted:It's the typical issue of fantasy stories/shows. The protagonist or antagonist is only as strong or as capable as the plot allows in that very moment. Rand definitely has a case of ProtagonistPower in terms of like, Channeling is supposed to be very difficult and take a lot of practice, but even as someone with literally zero training he can come up with the thing he just happens to need at the time. There's an in universe reason, kinda, but, it's still a trope for a reason. Less so when WoT was first written, but we're not in the 80s anymore lol. the show is different enough from the books that I don't know what all the answers here will be as far as what lanfear was doing with the power, but I think the relationship stuff is probably gonna be more clearly explained really quickly in the next couple eps. The relative power levels were kinda already explained a bit earlier in this episode, and have been shown a bit in others, too, in terms of like: Strength in the power doesn't make you superhuman. Yeah you can create a shield or even literally change the face of the continent if you're strong enough, but if you get your head chopped off you still instantly die. That's why Aes Sedai have warders, because an arrow in the back still kills you even if you can throw magic nukes, but a second set of eyes to watch your back can save your life. IDK what exactly happened with Lanfear here that she didn't die. There's some good theories based on book info stuff, but this isn't the thread from that. Spoilers on the very technical details of power levels only- (RJ kept detailed notes about this so there's actual info to be had here at least) Some of this might have been mentioned by Moiraine in the show, in ep 8 last season, but I don't remember. There's a range of how strong someone can be in the power, and Rand and Lanfear are at the very top of the scale. If you looked at it as a 1-10 with 10 being the strongest possible, they're a 10, Nynaeve is like 9, Egwene and Elayne are 7.5s, and the average Aes Sedai is a 5, with a couple standouts like Moiraine and Siuan at 6. I'm generalizing this a lot and it'll probably be spelled out in more detail down the line specifically as the characters themselves learn more about channeling in universe.
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Sep 10, 2023 00:32
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Vim Fuego posted:There's Sauron, Saruman, Sidious, and Sifo Dious Sauron from X-men or Lord of the Rings? Mr Beens posted:Press pause any time you forget, there is a cast list/character names of whoever is in the scene Yea, X ray would be helpful. Though i know the characters, just not the name, there's talks to wolfs guy, there's Rands girlfriend, there's the other woman that came with them, there's the Wizard Lady in blue and the one in red.
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Sep 10, 2023 01:14
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LinkesAuge posted:It is really all over the place and while they might later explain why Rand's "gf" has the powers she has or what these are, it isn't really helpful for the moment. You are expected to just go along with the typical fantasy/TV trope that she is on one hand "invincinble" and such a threat that even Rand can't do anything in that situation and yet she gets surprised by Moiraine and taken out just long enough by a sword so our heroes can escape. Isn't that convenient. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm kidding around to a certain degree, I don't want to get all tactical realism and call it a plothole every time a character doesn't take the exact perfect action in every scenario, but that's exactly why this felt a little off. You can't sneak up on her, stab her in the heart, cut her throat, and leave her bleeding and lifeless on the ground, and then ten seconds later tell me how she's invincible and we have to run away. It's whiplash! As Gwaihir mentioned, they've even emphasized how magic doesn't make you invulnerable superheroes, and now they're introducing the invulnerable superhero in the same scene where she gets apparently murdered before she can even react.
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Sep 10, 2023 01:47
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Phenotype posted:sneak up on her, stab her in the heart, cut her throat, and leave her bleeding and lifeless on the ground, and then ten seconds later tell me how she's invincible and we have to run away. … she gets apparently murdered before she can even react. The show does address this, though. Lanfear comes back to life as Moiraine and Rand are rushing out the door. Even a slit throat and a sword through the heart didn’t keep her dead for very long. Are you willing to stay and try things with an unknown chance of success, knowing that if you’re around when the apparently-unkillable sorceress wakes up you’re most definitely going to be on her poo poo list?
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Sep 10, 2023 01:56
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Phenotype posted:Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm kidding around to a certain degree, I don't want to get all tactical realism and call it a plothole every time a character doesn't take the exact perfect action in every scenario, but that's exactly why this felt a little off. You can't sneak up on her, stab her in the heart, cut her throat, and leave her bleeding and lifeless on the ground, and then ten seconds later tell me how she's invincible and we have to run away. It's whiplash! As Gwaihir mentioned, they've even emphasized how magic doesn't make you invulnerable superheroes, and now they're introducing the invulnerable superhero in the same scene where she gets apparently murdered before she can even react. This came at the end of an episode that showed several other kinds of magic besides the kind that Aes Sedai do (and these weren't the only ones to have appeared so far). Min's visions, the freaky dream she had, Perrin learning about wolfbrothers, and finally that scene. Characters have spoken about The Forsaken before, and said that they're very dangerous. Why are they dangerous? Well, for one thing, as they just demonstrated, you can stab one through the heart and slit her throat and that won't be enough to kill her.
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Sep 10, 2023 01:58
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Yeah the situation seems fine to me.Grundulum posted:The show does address this, though. Lanfear comes back to life as Moiraine and Rand are rushing out the door. Even a slit throat and a sword through the heart didn’t keep her dead for very long. Are you willing to stay and try things with an unknown chance of success, knowing that if you’re around when the apparently-unkillable sorceress wakes up you’re most definitely going to be on her poo poo list? Moraine's had her powers sealed too, she'd be fighting from a position of disadvantage.
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Sep 10, 2023 02:00
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Gwaihir posted:If you looked at it as a 1-10 with 10 being the strongest possible,
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Sep 10, 2023 02:05
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The thing everyone is dancing around is that us book readers don't actually know what happened with Lanfear at the end either. We can make guesses, we can compare to some similar things that they might be doing, but in the end this is a completely new element, and we're nearly as much in the dark as everyone else.
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Sep 10, 2023 02:27
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I love it!
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Sep 10, 2023 02:39
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Gwaihir posted:I love it!
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Sep 10, 2023 04:04
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sweet geek swag posted:The thing everyone is dancing around is that us book readers don't actually know what happened with Lanfear at the end either. We can make guesses, we can compare to some similar things that they might be doing, but in the end this is a completely new element, and we're nearly as much in the dark as everyone else. The original post that was here was replying to something completely different so it's gone now. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Sep 10, 2023 |
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Sep 10, 2023 05:11
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nine-gear crow posted:That question actually DOES have an answer, straight from Harriet McDougal by way of Brandon Sanderson. I think OP means end of the episode, not end of the series of books.
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Sep 10, 2023 05:21
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nine-gear crow posted:That question actually DOES have an answer, straight from Harriet McDougal by way of Brandon Sanderson.
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Sep 10, 2023 05:22
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Open Source Idiom posted:I think OP means end of the episode, not end of the series of books. JOHN SKELETON posted:This has spoilers for the end of the book series - I don't think anyone was talking about this stuff. People were referring to what happened to Lanfear at the end of the episode. I see. I misinterpreted that post, my bad. So yeah, DON'T click that link and read that post then non-book people, please.
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Sep 10, 2023 05:39
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nine-gear crow posted:I see. I misinterpreted that post, my bad. So yeah, DON'T click that link and read that post then non-book people, please. Maybe go back and edit the original post to say that?
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Sep 10, 2023 05:43
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Phenotype posted:Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm kidding around to a certain degree, I don't want to get all tactical realism and call it a plothole every time a character doesn't take the exact perfect action in every scenario, but that's exactly why this felt a little off. The whole first season culminated in one of the Forsaken coming back after thousands of years. It pretty well established that the Forsaken are Very Quite Super Duper Powerful. Last season Ishamael shut Moiraine out of the source with a twitch of his fingers, a fact that she brought up a few times this season. This very episode opens with Lanfear being released into the world in a pool of blood, covered head to toe in blood, with Ishy saying Blood feeds blood Blood calls Blood Blood is Blood was And Blood shall ever be It's a rather dramatic setup to nail home that these Forsaken are on a whole other level. It's not subtle at all.
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Sep 10, 2023 07:59
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Keeping this entirely to what we‘ve seen in the show: We‘ve seen a little of what the Age of Legends looked like: an advanced science fiction level civilization based on magic - huge cities, skyscrapers, and flying cars. And the Forsaken managed to bring this civilization to the brink of destruction. They should be an out of context problem for the medieval/early modern/renaissance level world they are coming back into. Moiraine‘s reaction is completely understandable.
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Sep 10, 2023 08:18
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DTurtle posted:Keeping this entirely to what we‘ve seen in the show: And according to Ishamael, this isn't even their second time trying to knock civilization off it's axis. They've been doing this poo poo for as many times as the Wheel itself has turned.
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Sep 10, 2023 08:27
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CainFortea posted:The whole first season culminated in one of the Forsaken coming back after thousands of years. It pretty well established that the Forsaken are Very Quite Super Duper Powerful. Last season Ishamael shut Moiraine out of the source with a twitch of his fingers, a fact that she brought up a few times this season. This very episode opens with Lanfear being released into the world in a pool of blood, covered head to toe in blood, with Ishy saying I'd consider myself TV literate but the show really didn't communicate this, especially that Rand's gf is a "Forsaken". The scene where Lanfear is "summoned" is certainly dramatic and does indeed highlight importance but it doesn't convey whether or not Lanfear is powerful or what her deal is, why she was "summoned" or how she even fits into the story. So it certainly isn't subtle but it also doesn't convey more than that (and it gives you a hint that this is who Rand's "gf" could be). Everything else might be a logical conclusion with prior knowledge but as a non-book viewer she could be anything, especially in a fantasy setting where "summoning demons" or whatever else is rather common (and yes I can also deduce that she is his daughter/the girl from the opening but that's it). It isn't the biggest deal that they didn't establish more info about her in the last ep but it just clashes with making her this huge threat in that specific moment or that you are even supposed to see her that way. I'm also always wary of the "Worf effect", ie a character that is supposed to be powerful and yet gets constantly clowned on so I'm never a fan of introducing a new character/"threat" by showing our heroes relatively easily escaping in the very first encounter including super convenient timing by Moraine. Not only did that scene make Lanfear not look threatening or competent, the protagonists also really didn't do anything to "deserve" that outcome, ie Moraine can easily sneak up and just "kill" her and Rand is just stunned and hold back by some flimsy cloth "handcuffs"? Just a big meh for a rather obvious "twist" attempt and not much payoff. Also what I'm getting from this thread is that the "Forsaken" are to be seen as a "faction", something I don't think the show really communicated? All the talk has always been about this pretty generic great evil, ie the "Dark One". Once again, it's okay if these concepts etc. are explored more over time, I'm mentioning it because maybe there is a gap between what book readers can deduce from the TV show and thus connect the dots and what someone like me got so far from the show. PS: I know this isn't "fair" and I'm somewhat joking but it is kind of a funny thought to think about what would have happened if Moraine had cut off her head. What would happen? Does the head grow a new body or does the body grow a new head? 
LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Sep 10, 2023 |
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Sep 10, 2023 10:14
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twistedmentat posted:I have one major problem with this show, i can't remember anyones names outside of Rand and Lann. This is why I have the subtitles on for this show, I wouldn't know anyone's names otherwise. Comes with an added bonus of closed captions like "trickling urination" when Lan is having a piss up against a tree.
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Sep 10, 2023 11:14
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Metis of the Hallway posted:trickling urination Mods requesting a name change
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Sep 10, 2023 11:37
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