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lilljonas posted:Age of Sail combat, with the right game, is pretty fun. I like the combination of sluggish movement that requires you to think several turns ahead, combined with a mostly slow, attritional firefight where you're rarely knocked out of the game in a single volley. It's one of those things I want to get into again at some point in the very far future. See, I find this with Grand Fleets, so maybe I should just jettison my need for Age of Sail games. Obviously WW1 ships move much faster and are proportionately larger, but the game scale is zoomed out so that you're using very similar movement distance, turning ability and gun ranges. There's a massive focus on positioning and manouvering - while you don't have the vagaries of the weather gage, the initiative mechanism for each squadron yields the same kind of push-your-luck mechanics: do you risk closing if you might not get the next shot off? do you risk altering your battle line at a critical moment at the risk you won't get the initiative next turn? God that game is like bad medicine - any time I talk about it I want to play it, but every time I do it's just slightly less interesting than I hoped.
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Sep 7, 2023 10:24
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This is the fourth playtest of my modification of the Lasalle rules to work with the First World War. From last time I’ve significantly dialled up the lethality, with more dice for artillery, easier “rolling-up” (to cause Disruption) and much more difficult “Rallying” (which removes disruption). I’ve also slightly shaken up the way Machine Guns work so that the German MGs are grouped together and then assigned to a single battalion within the brigade. It’s a little fiddly but less so than having individual MGs all over the place! The period was 1914 again and used Lasalle Scenario 3 “The Dark Woods”. In this scenario, one side (the Germans in this case) are deployed close to a town in a clearing amongst heavy forest. There are three objective points on offer (marked by the stars in the pictures), one on each table edge broadly opposite and the town itself. As such the Germans are generally on the defensive but need to get forwards. This playtest was head to head. There are still no points values yet in the mod so both sides have a full division on offer, with the Germans augmented by four “Heavy Artillery Points” (my method for abstractly representing off-map artillery). Overall the Germans are probably slightly favoured; they have more brigades (albeit each one a battalion smaller than the British) and their heavy artillery, where the British have superior shooting in their units.  As the German player I decided to try and dominate one half of the table. On the left flank I deployed two brigades in the woods along with half (two units) of my light artillery. The centre was held by a single brigade looking to take and hold the town.  My right flank consisted of the remainder of my artillery (another two units) along with the cavalry squadron and the final infantry brigade. Their job was to hold the flank and provide fire support against any British seeking to cross the open to the front.  The British deployed with two brigades in Assault formation in the centre and their last brigade with the cavalry squadron on the right flank. Somewhat controversially they only deployed three of their artillery units, leaving one limbered up to rush forwards. Turn 1  The game opened with German heavy and light artillery pounding the British guns on their left flank. The fire was so effective (read: lucky) that it even drove a whole unit straight from the battlefield!  In the centre the German brigade moved forwards into half of the town as the British brigade surged forwards to contest.  On their right the British advance also began, with the cavalry squadron taking a mauling from artillery right from the off. [Ignore their being represented by machine guns, the bizarre Baccus BEF army pack only comes with a single base of British cavalry!] Turn 2  Another British artillery unit was seen off by counter-battery fire. This was both extremely unlucky for the British player and highly important to the outcome of the game. As can be seen the British player also decided to push forward their left-most brigade as they (to quote) “are just sitting there”. Clearly my opponent was no fan of holding a reserve!  The cavalry continue to take a pounding on the British right flank as they approach the German positions in the woods. The Germans themselves - realising that the enemy are obligingly going to come to them - have deployed into a skirmish line in order to get their machine guns into action.  The centre rapidly descended into absolute carnage. A German battalion was all but wiped out trying to hold the flank of the town in the face of British artillery almost within spitting distance. The British themselves took some significant attrition as they attempted to close in on the town now bristling with rifles and machine guns. Turn 3  The British left continued to come forwards, prompting the Germans in the wood block to enact a Hasty Switcheroo (the technical term) to get the guns out of harm’s way. This manoeuvre was incredibly complex, costing almost all of the German momentum for the turn.  The British right closed in on the flank, but they were unwilling to get too close with the Germans in good defensive positions.  The action around the town continued, with both sides losing a battalion and the British racking up another half battalion lost as well. Turn 4  The whistles blow and the British charge into the town goes forwards! One battalion was destroyed by rifle and machine gun fire, but the other was able to not only expel the German defenders, but rout them in the process! Only a single German battalion remained in the centre (although the Machine Guns were able to escape in one piece).  The British finally deployed into line and came into contact on their left flank, with some good shooting reducing the defending battalion to 2/3rds strength. This flank remained broadly static for the remainder of the game, with shots traded back and forth to limited effect.  The German right now came into action with a reduced enemy brigade crossing their front, driving off the screening British battalion that was holding the flank. The cavalry also swung out onto the extreme flank with dreams of an encirclement in their mind. Turn 5  The remains of the British brigade (down to half a battalion in total) garrisoned the town and (briefly) claimed the upper hand. The reinforcing British brigade now became the target of choice for German guns and with friendly troops all having scarpered the heavy artillery could also start working away at the British batteries again, although by this point ammunition stocks were running low. [timg]https://i.imgur.com/tU6zdZY.jpg[/itmg] Rallied British battalions - usually no more than a company at best - began making their way back onto the battlefield. This is one of the major departures from standard Lasalle where destroyed units disappear forever. It works quite well here but needs some tweaking, in particular some ability to “merge” units together into fewer but more resilient battalions would be beneficial. Turn 6  The German right flank continued to develop, although with the British remnants now forming a defensive line the prospects of significant progress without unacceptable loss seemed remote. Indeed, one battalion was almost immediately reduced to company strength by enemy artillery.  In the centre the British battalion holding the town was forced out by artillery, leaving just two battalions still active for the British, one of which was down to half strength. The German reserve brigade duly started off moving through the woods to counter-attack and take back the town. Turn 7  With another British battalion routed from the field, the game was called for a German victory. Whilst British “reinforcements” were arriving back onto the field in droves (the routed Germans for their part clearly had better places to be) there was no realistic chance of them taking or holding the town.  Overall it was a good battle and the rules worked well again, although I suspect that is more down to Lasalle being a very good system than my doing! Regardless it felt quite World War One which is the goal after all, with attack and counter-attack going in, decisive artillery engagements and huge casualties on both sides. The higher lethality definitely felt more “correct” than the last playtest where it was too difficult to inflict any permanent losses on the enemy. It’s possible this might be a little far in the other direction but I’m going to keep it this way for a while at least. The new machine gun rules for the Germans also worked well, whereby they could mass their machine guns against a single target much more easily than the British. It’s likely my opponent made a few mistakes that could have evened out the game a bit more. In particular, deploying into skirmish lines earlier to maximise firepower and benefit from their machine guns (which can’t be used in Assault or Column formations) likely would have helped, as would leaving their brigade on the left in reserve. Attacking on the other flank at the same time (essentially committing all three brigades simultaneously) was also probably a bit ambitious, particularly as they were outnumbered on that flank! Having better luck and not losing two units of artillery in the first few turns would also have been a good strategy, it certainly worked for me!
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Sep 7, 2023 11:26
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For cover in CoC I think a good way differentiate between light and heavy is that heavy cover stops bullets. Light cover is more about concealment. So a stone/brick house would give you heavy cover but a wooden shed is only light cover.
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Sep 7, 2023 12:14
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INinja132 posted:This is the fourth playtest of my modification of the Lasalle rules to work with the First World War. This is super cool stuff, I have my problems with Lasalle as a solo gamer but I applaud the gumption. Do you have a 10,000' view of your changes? I gather something like: artillery == MGs, new off-board Artillery strike rolls and no cavalry? I absolutely love the tokens you have too - that's definitely something I should look into!
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Sep 7, 2023 12:52
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I applaud that Lasalle conversion (may I humbly suggest calling it Petain?  ) mostly because there's a real dearth of good WW1 rules out there aside from Great War Spearhead
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Sep 7, 2023 13:05
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Legion did get a brief timeout, I think, after going on about how the US needs to stop being politically correct and learn from the SS about how to deal with insurgents. The war crimes? Oh, no, no, the, uh, other stuff. They were very highly-trained experts! They taught the US how to do fire and movement! Southern Heel posted:On the obsession with Germany/German armies - GW's Death Korps of Krieg is one of the most stupid names ever for an army, it's not even like Krieg is a word that's rare in the anglophone world - it absolutely doesn't have the same tongue in cheeky humour as earlier names, nor is unique or cool enough to stand alone. IMO it sits with the same grouping as the retcon that the Land Speeder and Land Raider are not called such because they speed over, or raid land, but actually because they were invented by a dude called "Arkhan Land"
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Sep 7, 2023 14:22
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Arquinsiel posted:What, the complete failure to deal with them and the war crimes being so hard to ignore that the entire world kicked the poo poo out of them over it? Wasn't DKOK Forgeworld? Doesn't make it any less stupid! This is a hill I'm prepared to die on (I'm sure there's an ironic pun there)! I did check and the Arkhan Land rubbish was 2001 so after I left the hobby. Everything that I don't like is poo poo.
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Sep 7, 2023 14:28
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Southern Heel posted:On the obsession with Germany/German armies - GW's Death Korps of Krieg is one of the most stupid names ever for an army, Let me tell you about Ferrus Manus, the iron-handed Primarch of the Iron Hands and his ship, Fist of Iron. Or Corvus Corax, the ravan-haired Primarch of the Raven Guard, who Southern Heel posted:Someone has unironically suggested Warhammer Historicals: Trafalgar for Age of Sail but I just wonder if there can be a minimum interest in a pure age of sail game which DOESN'T have the kind of paperwork and sheet referencing which drags it down to a net-zero fun quotient? I think I can just about give Grand Fleets a pass despite its wonky one-dice-roll-for-everything firing mechanic. FGU has an old-school rpg called Privateers and Gentlemen that covers the era; think Hornblower or Aubrey/Mataurin. The ship-to-ship part of the system is called Heart of Oak. It's available separately here, although you might as well buy the whole rpg here, as it's only $8 more and has some fun background info. It is a good, quick age of sail game with minimal record-keeping. Count Thrashula posted:I applaud that Lasalle conversion (may I humbly suggest calling it Petain? TFL's Through the Mud and Blood is quite good. I love seeing WWI games. I need to break out my WWI models and build a trench terrain table.
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Sep 7, 2023 15:34
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Haven't tried it myself, but Square Bashing by Peter Pig is another one I see mentioned.
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Sep 7, 2023 15:56
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zokie posted:For cover in CoC I think a good way differentiate between light and heavy is that heavy cover stops bullets. Light cover is more about concealment. So a stone/brick house would give you heavy cover but a wooden shed is only light cover. I'd love to see an industry wide adoption and understanding of what Cover and Concealment mean IRL: Concealment obscures you. Cover obscures you and offers protection. Maybe break cover down into hard and soft for game purposes, depending on how good it is at stopping bullets and bombs. It's one of those magazine/clip things where you can see it wrong all the time and it burns me up inside. Southern Heel posted:I did check and the Arkhan Land rubbish was 2001 so after I left the hobby. Retconning "Land Raider" had more to do with finally flushing the 20-years old turd of a joke play on "Land Rover."
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Sep 7, 2023 16:24
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I think the joke was only four years old when they tried to flush it. Didn't really work. Plus I guess they realised that George might not be happy about them using "Land Speeder".Southern Heel posted:Wasn't DKOK Forgeworld? Doesn't make it any less stupid! This is a hill I'm prepared to die on (I'm sure there's an ironic pun there)! I did check and the Arkhan Land rubbish was 2001 so after I left the hobby. Everything that I don't like is poo poo.
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Sep 7, 2023 17:39
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Cessna posted:FGU has an old-school rpg called Privateers and Gentlemen that covers the era; think Hornblower or Aubrey/Mataurin. Fun fact, both were written by sci-fi author and fringe developer of the cyberpunk genre Walter Jon Williams. I think minimal record-keeping is stretching a point, though. The records aren't that bad but it is an 80s game where there are like 20 tables to roll on and cross-reference. Which I like, but folks used to modern game design may bounce off of.
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Sep 7, 2023 18:20
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Notahippie posted:The records aren't that bad but it is an 80s game where there are like 20 tables to roll on and cross-reference. Which I like, but folks used to modern game design may bounce off of. That's fair; it's an older design with groggy roots. It doesn't require as much record-keeping as even WS&IM, but it's not nothing either.
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Sep 7, 2023 20:18
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For light-and-breezy age of sail miniatures games, what about the Pirates of the Spanish Main series of collectible card/miniature games?
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Sep 7, 2023 21:16
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That got real weird with later expansions, but even the base set let you do nuts things like stack crew and ship abilities to move three times in a single turn with the one ship. It is, however, extremely fun.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:53
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I've noted these recommendations down, thank you - I'm not likely to get the sailing ships down onto the board again very soon though - my caprice fled after half painting the squadron and this was mostly just a long shot to see if the FS rules really captivated me in a way to draw me back on their own merit.
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Sep 8, 2023 07:55
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Southern Heel posted:This is super cool stuff, I have my problems with Lasalle as a solo gamer but I applaud the gumption. Do you have a 10,000' view of your changes? I gather something like: artillery == MGs, new off-board Artillery strike rolls and no cavalry? Yeah of course, obviously they're still in flux but happy to share the rough outline of changes. The actual changes from Lasalle are only about 4 pages at the moment, most of which is just the new tables for movement and shooting. Firstly there is some cavalry but I only have a squadron of Germans and a single base (curse you Baccus!!!!  ) of British so not a lot in my games!Formations Firstly formations are now in two overall types, "Offensive" and "Defensive". The Offensive formations are Assault (which is the equivalent of Mass in Lasalle) and Column (which is Column) and the major limitation with them is that you can't use MGs but you move a lot faster and incur fewer complications in Assault and potentially Column (if you have the Human Wave Trait) going into Combat. Defensively you have Skirmish Line and Garrison which crucially are the only formations which let you use MGs. Machine Guns MGs are the biggest change from standard Lasalle by a pretty wide margin although I've tried to keep it as close to the spirit of those rules as possible by cutting down on too much detail. MGs are either integral parts of units (such as for the British, where they appear on the unit label) or independent companies (as for the Germans) which are then assigned in bulk to a unit. MGs can be fired independently at long range and with good dice like a standard "fire" action, albeit one that everyone forgets all the time. The alternative use is to have them Support the attached unit in firing, which lets you spend the MGs to increase the value of rolled dice. So for example you could spend one MG point to increase a roll from a 3 to a 4 (i.e. a hit). Heavy Artillery As you rightly surmised heavy artillery is all off-board. At the start of the scenario you have a number of heavy artillery points which are tracked on the little momentum sheet and as an Intervention you can have your general roll the dice against any target which is in LOS and not Near friendly troops. The trade-off here is that you don't get the extra momentum from your general. When heavy artillery hits it immediately causes a permanent loss (rather than a disruption), which at the moment means it's probably a bit too good against on-map artillery. Any roll of a "1" reduces your heavy artillery points by one to represent running out of ammo/overheating barrels/counter-battery fire. Unit Recovery The last major departure is that units can now come back onto the battlefield after they run off. At the end of the turn you get a free Rally for everyone off the table that has Disruption and if you pass any rolls (so they have free strength boxes again) they can come back on as reinforcements (per the usual reinforcement rules). This works quite well and is more appropriate for the era I think (it takes a lot less time to organise a company of WW1 infantry than a battalion of Napoleonic!) but it is a bit fiddly and tracking what brigade everyone is in is a bit of a pain so I might say if they come back they're always independent or something. Southern Heel posted:I absolutely love the tokens you have too - that's definitely something I should look into! Count Thrashula posted:I applaud that Lasalle conversion (may I humbly suggest calling it Petain? Springfield Fatts posted:Haven't tried it myself, but Square Bashing by Peter Pig is another one I see mentioned. Same, I've heard it's very good and I think I'll try it at some point. My understanding is that it's a bit more trench warfare focused maybe? Looks good for late war in particular. Cessna posted:TFL's Through the Mud and Blood is quite good. Can you give any details on it? Am I right in thinking it's skirmish scale?
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Sep 8, 2023 09:08
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INinja132 posted:Can you give any details on it? Am I right in thinking it's skirmish scale? It is, one model = one soldier. It's a very straightforward, smooth game, my favorite for the era. Rather than blather on about how good it is, here's a review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V3XGuNWgYU
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Sep 8, 2023 15:41
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  So I have enough models now to run either of these starter lists for Sharp Practice, and a bunch of Support choices. Now to get on with actually playing the game.
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Sep 9, 2023 22:30
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Allegedly, this is a clipping from a 1990 White Dwarf 
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Sep 10, 2023 13:06
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Siivola posted:Allegedly, this is a clipping from a 1990 White Dwarf Ok, I want to see a Land Raider that has a boiler and stoking team inside.
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Sep 10, 2023 15:53
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There's a lot that's incredibly stupid about 40k but the dumbest to me is going through all the space marine bullshit and being assigned to driving an APC in your full power armor for reasons.
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Sep 10, 2023 16:17
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I always assumed they were chapter serfs, in the "space marines washout" sense.
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Sep 10, 2023 16:32
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Nope, they were given profiles in previous editions where it was possible for a hit to penetrate the vehicle and hit a crew member but somehow not hit that poor gently caress. Space Marine vehicles are driven by Space Marines.
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Sep 10, 2023 16:59
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Springfield Fatts posted:There's a lot that's incredibly stupid about 40k but the dumbest to me is going through all the space marine bullshit and being assigned to driving an APC in your full power armor for reasons. Some wonderful Japanese twitter user takes photo of theirs with little model cats walking across the keyboards. No, brother-kitten, get down, we are trying to command the space marines. Please move.
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Sep 10, 2023 20:51
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Have you seen the interior of the command rhino? Two fully-armoured space marines side by side and a bunch of screens. Oh man, if it's the same one I'm thinking of, I used to have that as my FB background (when I was using FB, that is). I'll have to see if I can find it.
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Sep 10, 2023 21:20
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Some wonderful Japanese twitter user takes photo of theirs with little model cats walking across the keyboards. No, brother-kitten, get down, we are trying to command the space marines. Please move. Goddammit Buttons, do not enact Exterminatus!
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Sep 10, 2023 21:29
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sorry to break up the 40k chat, but anyone know of any good stls for ww2 mans, ideally for 15 mm, that are NOT march to hell? mth is fine just want to see some other options cause theyre not my favourite. henry turner is doing fall of france probably in the next few months or year or so but yeah just curious
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Sep 12, 2023 01:31
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Speaking of asking for 15mm miniatures - I got a big big order of Italian Wars stuff, however one thing I am missing is cannons. I got artillery crews, but no artillery for them to crew. So, any suggestions on where to get some good 16th century cannons?
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Sep 12, 2023 01:51
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I'm being interviewed tomorrow for a podcast (Bedroom Battlefields) which is an independent-minded wargaming/lite RPG thing. Apart from evangelising for 10mm scale, I think my topic of choice is historical games as a non-historian, the benefits/adantages of historical/fictional vs fantastical settings. I'm thinking of covering off points roughly along these lines:
I am taking a position of strong opinions, loosely held - I am aware that everything is more complicated than black and white and there are exceptions to every rule - but I think it would be more interesting than a discussion heavily salted with doubt and peppered with caveats. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, thoughts, inputs, etc. with credit duly given of course to either the topic, talking points, etc. Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 10:35
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Southern Heel posted:I'm being interviewed tomorrow for a podcast (Bedroom Battlefields) which is an independent-minded wargaming/lite RPG thing. Apart from evangelising for 10mm scale, I think my topic of choice is historical games as a non-historian, the benefits/adantages of historical vs fantastical settings. I'm thinking of covering off points roughly along these lines: All valid points but a quick reflection: the points, as written, appear more as "why is fantasy/sci-fi gaming bad", instead of what the strength of historicals are. This has two disadvantages, in that it comes off as defensive and also antagonistic for people already playing sci-fi/fantasy games. I think you could rephrase pretty much the same ideas, but as more positive rather than negative claims. This will probably make you come off better from a pure rhetorical angle, and could make for a better interview.
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Sep 13, 2023 10:43
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lilljonas posted:All valid points but a quick reflection: the points, as written, appear more as "why is fantasy/sci-fi gaming bad", instead of what the strength of historicals are. This has two disadvantages, in that it comes off as defensive and also antagonistic for people already playing sci-fi/fantasy games. I think you could rephrase pretty much the same ideas, but as more positive rather than negative claims. This will probably make you come off better from a pure rhetorical angle, and could make for a better interview.
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Sep 13, 2023 12:01
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Point 1 and 4 seem opposed to each other. How can you get granular and dramatic differences between something as large as alien races and societies without a bunch of rules to differentiate them? To point 4 specifically it isn't like historicals are immune to this; how many times have you seen some wehraboo crying that his snowflake tank with unobtanium ammunition isn't represented in the game? Point 3 is generally true, but some games manage it. The "rpg" (and I say this because it's more like a wargame with story elements glued on) Lancer does a great job of representing some truly bizarre weapons and technologies on the battlefield. Point 5 is difficult because history is, well, history. You know what happens and who's there and it's easier to tailor campaign scenarios to suit games. I'd argue the biggest seller point for sci-fi/fantasy games is the fact it's kind of just being made up as you go along. It's a lot harder to come up with engaging missions as to why Space Marine chapter X ends up being wiped out by Orks on this planet. I know there were like... theater campaign books? by forge world a while back but I don't know if they included actual game missions or were just lore dumps.
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Sep 13, 2023 12:37
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I think the way i'd put it his, historical games, the better ones, have a good way of finding the differences and nuances between more ostensibly similar forces in war- not that it's impossible in SF/F but rarely does the latter actually consider smaller details, since they can make much bigger picture things different. We have the history, seeing how a US Armored Rifle Platoon is different from a Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier platoon. And yeah, i think emphasizing history often being stranger than fiction is a good way of presenting it.
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Sep 13, 2023 12:47
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Thank you all for the kind input! I would like to confirm that I'm deliberately taking a strong (although hopefully not inflammatory) standpoint to provoke some interesting conversations, rather than as a level headed dissertation. (i.e. not only do I post in BattleTech but I also post in Miniature Wargaming and have just painted up a Warmaster force). Personal issues with Sci-Fi/Fantasy Wargaming - Truly fantastical elements (lovecraft cosmic horror) and hard sci-fi (three body problem dimensional weapons, revelation space relativistic weapons, time dilation) aren't representable in a tabletop game - To me (!!) the most engaging parts of sci-fi/fantasy are where those things can at least be explored, so likely 'micro'-scale events better suited to RPGs - at larger scale they are abstracted away. - CAVEAT: I have a strong nostalgia for 40k 2nd Edition and WHFB 4th Edition since I grew up with them Got into HW via Gaunts Ghosts and clear inspiration from real life events, and decided to read about those. Percieved Notions of HW - Slowly pushing blocks of infantry around representing Waterloo through bottle-thick glasses and a grey beard::: patently not true - Legacy of unfriendly grogs::: no need to engage - Must be a historian::: band of brothers, sharpe, outlander - Need for accuracy::: reevaluate who your opponents/peers are if this is an issue Benefits - If you ignore 'history' from the concept, HW are just amazingly varied wargames with infinitely deep lore AKA stories with dates. <EXAMPLES> - Massively varied game mechanics- diceless, measureless (To the Strongest) vs GW-alikes vs ultra-deep simulations - Massively varied scope - Force on Force (modern tiny skirmish highly detailed) to GW-alike BA/SP/etc. vs Blücher (operational level Napoleonic) - Huge variety of figure scales - 2mm to 54mm - Very campaign and narrative friendly - Typical historical game will have units that you can instinctively grasp strengths and weaknesses, and thus often an opportunity to focus on tactics and strategy. In a more detailed game, you can zoom in to find differences in even ostensibly similar Challenges - So many games, no brand image, no default options (although I guess Warlord Games?) - Little cohesiveness so likely a need to paint and field two armies and learn the rules - Points systems becoming more prevalent but rare with significant omissions and so a narrative/non-competitive game is common - "As much as you like" approach to accuracy, some balanced games but mostly part of a narrative Call to Action - Victrix/Perry (28mm), Pendraken (10mm), Bacchus (6mm), Irregular (2mm) - One Hour Wargames (Neil Thomas) with army lists, rules and scenarios - Solo Wargaming Campaigns (William Sylvester) if necessary Of course I'm going to talk a bit about my 10mm adventures and the different rules I've played and where I've found enjoyment personally?
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Sep 13, 2023 14:33
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Arquinsiel posted:Just talk about what historicals offer rather than what other games fail at. This point can't be stressed enough.
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Sep 13, 2023 14:40
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While I enjoy historical wargaming and miniatures I would have to say the biggest drawback is that you are never painting or creating a force to what you want it to look like. The hobby aspect is to recreate something that already exists. This might be an advantage for some, no need to worry about certain artistic elements or picking out colors and trying to create a scheme, at most you pick a unit/theater/branch that has the uniform and camo style you like and paint that. If I paint my Luftwaffe reserve force and their Flak 88 purple and blue the response to that is going to be very negative. Heck, if I paint them the wrong Dunklegelb the response from other people can be negative. I think one of the biggest advantages, and I am not sure if it was listed and I just missed it, is that many of the games don't have dedicated miniature lines or official lines. While that might sound like a drawback I would contend that it is not and perhaps one of the strongest positives for many historical games. You can shop around for the miniature line you like, or 3D print what you want, so you can get a really customized force. This also can help keep the cost down as there is not necessarily a monolithic provider for the miniatures which sets the price point.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:45
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Southern Heel posted:Call to Action I would bring up the Osprey Blue Book series. $20, minis agnostic, and if you can think of it they probably have a game that covers it. To the discerning grog they might be limiting but if I was trying to convert someone to historicals I would certainly start with one of those.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:52
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IncredibleIgloo posted:I think one of the biggest advantages, and I am not sure if it was listed and I just missed it, is that many of the games don't have dedicated miniature lines or official lines. While that might sound like a drawback I would contend that it is not and perhaps one of the strongest positives for many historical games. You can shop around for the miniature line you like, or 3D print what you want, so you can get a really customized force. This also can help keep the cost down as there is not necessarily a monolithic provider for the miniatures which sets the price point. The fact there's actually a free market of minis definitely helps keep pricing down. I'm unaware of any proprietary figure ranges that match the affordability of historicals - GW is a big offender but privateer, corvus belli, or even mantic can't really match it.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:36
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spectralent posted:The fact there's actually a free market of minis definitely helps keep pricing down. I'm unaware of any proprietary figure ranges that match the affordability of historicals - GW is a big offender but privateer, corvus belli, or even mantic can't really match it. Yeah, that is a good point! In some ways it is almost a double edged sword when it comes to 3D printing, because GW is so expensive you can find numerous, almost infinite proxies for their armies whereas the 3D printing market in the historicals world is developing more slowly because of the affordable nature of the hobby. Although there have been a few lines that have been pretty good at filling some niches that are blank, such as early war 15mm stuff for FoW.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:27
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