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That they really lent into the grotesque with the attack on titan-imal was brilliant as well, think less brave producers might have shied away from it, but the giraffe moustache was just the right level of comedic and gross.
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Sep 11, 2023 00:13
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I'm seeing a bunch of storyboard artists on twitter say that they've been without work for 6 months to a year. Additionally the feature animation studios here in montreal all have no projects or only domestic canadian productions, and tv animation studios in vancouver are going through dramatic downsizing. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the strikes because The Animation Guild is not on strike, so why the dramatic fall off in production?
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Sep 11, 2023 01:09
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Ccs posted:I'm seeing a bunch of storyboard artists on twitter say that they've been without work for 6 months to a year. Additionally the feature animation studios here in montreal all have no projects or only domestic canadian productions, and tv animation studios in vancouver are going through dramatic downsizing. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the strikes because The Animation Guild is not on strike, so why the dramatic fall off in production? Presumably vocal actors are still covered under SAG, and story writers coveted under WGA?
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Sep 11, 2023 01:17
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Animation story writers aren't covered under the WGA, and work started drying up a lot earlier than SAG went on strike.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:20
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I don’t know if any turtles movies/shows have made tons of money on their own. I’m sure most of it comes from merchandising.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:28
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Ccs posted:I'm seeing a bunch of storyboard artists on twitter say that they've been without work for 6 months to a year. Additionally the feature animation studios here in montreal all have no projects or only domestic canadian productions, and tv animation studios in vancouver are going through dramatic downsizing. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the strikes because The Animation Guild is not on strike, so why the dramatic fall off in production? https://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/netflix-animation-70-layoffs-project-cancelations-216512.html https://www.cartoonbrew.com/studios/wbd-merge-cartoon-network-studios-warner-bros-animation-222123.html https://www.cartoonbrew.com/executives/disney-layoffs-animation-kids-bob-iger-228424.html
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Sep 11, 2023 01:58
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Dang that sucks. It corresponding with the strikes is meaning vfx/animation as a whole is doing even worse than during covid lockdowns, when only vfx was heavily affected.
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Sep 11, 2023 02:56
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Invalid Validation posted:I don’t know if any turtles movies/shows have made tons of money on their own. I’m sure most of it comes from merchandising. The 1990 TMNT movie made 200 million (470 adjusted for 2023) on a 13.5 million (32 adjusted) budget. Highest grossing independent film of all time until Blair Witch made almost 250 million (585 adjusted) on a less-than-1 million (2.5 adjusted) budget.
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Sep 11, 2023 02:59
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Inkspot posted:The 1990 TMNT movie made 200 million (470 adjusted for 2023) on a 13.5 million (32 adjusted) budget. Highest grossing independent film of all time until Blair Witch made almost 250 million (585 adjusted) on a less-than-1 million (2.5 adjusted) budget. Thank you for finding this. It makes sense. The TMNT movie is incredible, especially given the stunts the Turtles have to pull off in those outfits.
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Sep 11, 2023 03:06
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The power of tokusatsu
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Sep 11, 2023 03:09
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The '90s TMNT movie being an indie film is completely wild in retrospect.
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Sep 11, 2023 03:16
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It does explain how it got away with some of the darker moments, like Raph getting jumped and Shredder getting crushed in a garbage truck.
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Sep 11, 2023 03:18
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TMNT and Toxic Avenger are pretty close in many ways. Heh, the 2012 show even had a character who was basically a PG-rated Toxic Avenger. (barely)
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Sep 11, 2023 03:36
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Hahaha they did a joke about Luz making the "cool S" as graffiti on Hootie The throwaway gags in Owl House are something else
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Sep 11, 2023 11:00
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Well…I finally saw Elemental on Friday and I really liked it
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Sep 11, 2023 14:21
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Assepoester posted:6 months to a year ago was when all the big players were cutting their animation production and gutting their studios, wasn't it? It's this. I've only done a little freelancing since I rolled off MAWS in January and almost everyone I know has been out of work for most the year. Story and design alike. I always feel like I'm making too much money for what I do, but then you enter dead zones like this and you're relying on savings while you're out of work for a year (through no fault of your own!) and paying rent in LA. I have a big 'ol spreadsheet of how many places I've applied to with nothing to show for it.  The good news in my case is that there are rumblings on the MAWS front and if it pans out, I'll have a guaranteed job come 2024.
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Sep 11, 2023 21:24
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Hope it works out. Working in vfx this past 6 months has been seeing nothing on the horizon after the current projects and watching rounds of coworkers laid off as projects go on hold or they roll off their current shows. First it was all the juniors, then seniors based on how long they'd been with the company. Meanwhile friends who still work in tv animation were having an nice time that past few years moving west and making good money working on American shows which pay better than domestic canadian productions. Now those are all ending and they're moving back east to work on the super cheap canadian shows where the pay is like $600 a week before tax. The good thing is vfx will probably recover, maybe by April or May of next year if the strikes end in October/November. But I don't know what's going on in animation, whether this represents a permanent reduction or just a blip.
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Sep 11, 2023 21:55
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I'm a little concerned that at least a bit of it is AI being explored as artist replacement. I keep hearing about near-billions being poured into its development by big studios, the above included.
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Sep 11, 2023 22:56
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It wears me out that they're going full throttle on that. Like it's either an impossible to solve gulf of understanding or just sociopathic apathy.
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Sep 11, 2023 23:24
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The AI Generated South Park Scam/Hoax has convinced me that there have been similar AI Startup Bros that we haven't heard about going around pitching these sorts of smoke and mirrors presentations to corporate boardrooms and convincing CEOs that turnkey AI Generated Animation (and more!) is right around the corner like driverless cars and giving all these easily impressionable, technologically illiterate, and often very dumb billionaires the idea that if they just hold out a little longer, they won't need to pay most of their workers anymore, instead of something more realistic (and still sad and depressing) like "you can pay fewer artists to touch up some AI plagiarized background art and thus get away with laying off, say, 75% of your background artists..." This dovetails pretty closely with the recent attempt to shift to just naming a few "creators" instead of specific writers and directors and showrunners because these executives with CEO brain pumped full of AI hopium (and copium) are envisioning nothing less than a future where they only have to pay no more than a small room full of people to handle "generating" all aspects of a show with giant corporate mainframes... basically what Space Jam 2 warned us about : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hMePqcEDR8
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Sep 11, 2023 23:46
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Das Boo posted:I'm a little concerned that at least a bit of it is AI being explored as artist replacement. I keep hearing about near-billions being poured into its development by big studios, the above included. something WB is trying out is having boards and design also done at overseas studios. my friend is currently doing freelance for one of them to fix the boards they're sending back lmao
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Sep 12, 2023 01:21
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A lot of money is going to be wasted on AI but I think mostly for naught. In vfx it'll come in handy eventually for paint and roto, matchmove, some concept art mockups that still involve paintovers, and maybe some nifty tools to help animators get realistic gravity on rigs. In animation, maybe in betweens? And trying to cheat scriptwriters out of full credit? That doesn't stop what are supposed to be reputable industry sites posting a bunch of inflated nonsense about what AI will supposedly provide https://www.awn.com/blog/end-content-acquisition
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Sep 12, 2023 01:28
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Ccs posted:A lot of money is going to be wasted on AI but I think mostly for naught. In vfx it'll come in handy eventually for paint and roto, matchmove, some concept art mockups that still involve paintovers, and maybe some nifty tools to help animators get realistic gravity on rigs. Environmental art too, which is huge.
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Sep 12, 2023 03:16
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AI gen software is artificially cheap right now, it's expensive and slow to use. It's another question if it'll be remotely viable once the bored billionaire money dries up
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Sep 12, 2023 05:44
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Bit late to the discusso, but Incredibles isn't a complex movie. Mr. Incredible is an ex-cop. He was working directly for the police department, which is how he paid for his food and house, three kids, etc. His next job was as an insurance salesman, but he obviously chafed at that and took up vigilantism as a hobby to scratch the cop itch. Finally, he gets recruited as private security or whatever. We understand that Buddy The Villain is straightforwardly evil because, aside from the murders, he's an arms manufacturer who plans to sell his weapons to the highest bidders. However, the threat Buddy poses to Mr. Incredible is that "nobody will be super" - which, in context, refers to a 'disruption' of the previously-existing arrangement between police and (some) genetic mutants. Buddy was always upset because he wasn't allowed to be a cop, so now he's an anarcho-capitalist who threatens Mr. Incredible's conservative values. So buddy is of course defeated and conservative values reaffirmed - but the question of how the family earns money in the end is never addressed, which is a cop-out.
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Sep 12, 2023 06:34
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thanks supermechagodzilla
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Sep 12, 2023 06:39
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Megera posted:something WB is trying out is having boards and design also done at overseas studios. Wooooof. That's a decision made by someone who's never directly worked with overseas studios. Clarification for anyone who hasn't: There's problems with language barriers, sure, but it's mostly the unspoken expectation that whatever studio you're outsourcing to is also going to outsource it to a cheaper, less careful studio. You get back some wild errors. Ccs posted:A lot of money is going to be wasted on AI but I think mostly for naught. In vfx it'll come in handy eventually for paint and roto, matchmove, some concept art mockups that still involve paintovers, and maybe some nifty tools to help animators get realistic gravity on rigs. Agreed. I do think it's partially responsible for the ghost town of projects right now, though. Which means to your earlier question, I think this is a temporary blip. Of course I also hope it is, but I do think so, too. I'm blaming the other part on studio shenanigans, from rear end-vision CEOs, to impossible line-go-up business models, to overinvestment in animation during the pandemic... Let's call it a poo poo storm of factors.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Bit late to the discusso, but Incredibles isn't a complex movie. How the family earns money is the entire plot of the second movie. Turns out rich people just kind of give it to them because when you're super you deserve that and the 1% are just that nice.
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Sep 12, 2023 20:44
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AI will probably never make anything that has any real meaning so it’ll need a human hand to guide it and at that point you might as well just let them create from scratch. It’ll just end up as tools to help the monotonous poo poo like speedtree.
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Sep 12, 2023 20:52
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I think you're all underselling what AI will be doing. Its murky place in copyright has the potential to slam the brakes in some areas for sure, but I bet you its already got its fingers in places you're not realizing. The projects where people rip out the artists utterly and just have AI generate everything will probably always be poo poo (or at least for like, 10 more years), but AI tools are already a huge multiplier to what a skilled artist can accomplish. I've straight up already participated in a few projects where people are doing this, and it's been a thing for like a year. Artists are naturally not inclined to show off that they're using AI tools but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Ghost Leviathan posted:AI gen software is artificially cheap right now, it's expensive and slow to use. It's another question if it'll be remotely viable once the bored billionaire money dries up No way, you can run a ton of it locally on your own computer. If you're dealing with render farms already AI isn't at all a stretch. Also means even if copyright issues shut all the public facing stuff down, I bet you this will all still be going on. Ccs posted:In animation, maybe in betweens? And trying to cheat scriptwriters out of full credit? There's already a few popular indie tools for AI-based MoCap with much less overhead than the standard setups. Still needs a lot of cleanup, but this stuff has been out for like 6 months. Entirely AI-based animation will definitely be a thing before much longer. Probably not the best for hero assets sure but there's no way it won't affect things. e: rereading this it might sound like I'm defending it, which isn't my intention. I'd definitely rather live in a world without these AI tools; I think if nothing else it's going to have a horrific effect on artists trying to get their foot in the door. But a lot of people in the art space are kind of willfully underselling it which I think only hurts them in the long run. Use of AI tools is the new reality, they'll continue to have bigger and more wide-reaching roles, you gotta adapt to it or you really risk drowning. Koramei fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 01:24
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Koramei posted:No way, you can run a ton of it locally on your own computer. If you're dealing with render farms already AI isn't at all a stretch. running SD locally is still artificial cheapness, you can only do that because a company spent millions of dollars training the huge base models then released them for free because they're just rolling in VC money and don't need to actually turn a profit yet there's no putting that specific cat back in the bag but at some point the free models are going to dry up, and if you want the latest and greatest you'll have to rent access to a model on someone else's computer repiv fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 01:41
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Huh fair enough, that makes sense. I don't at all think they'll have trouble turning a profit in time though; I already know a bunch of artists with the most expensive midjourney subscriptions (the one that lets you generate privately), and that's people without the resources of an entertainment behemoth that can see how much money they'll save in the long run.
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Sep 13, 2023 01:53
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I think the biggest place where AI will replace artists is in situations where the art is tangential to the product, i.e. what we've already been seeing with authors generating a book cover, and stuff like advertising. Stuff where the visual art isn't really the point but you used to have to pay an artist anyway. I don't necessarily blame someone like an independent author who can't necessarily afford to pay someone, but it's definitely still sad.
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Sep 13, 2023 02:35
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I think that too many people here went to art school and think others think like them. People are caring more and more about pure product and not creativity and will eat up anything that gives them an "official" approximation of what they want to see. (I went to art school too and hate it, but now that I somehow got put on one of the biggest AI pushers AI project...ugh)
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Sep 13, 2023 04:01
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I think its more that people can't feasibly learn every art skill and have time enough to make their own projects on their own. Nor are most people going to be feasibly able to pay a team to make it. Its going to eventually lead to a lot more independent projects. (AI is not currently ready for production, but I could see it reaching that point in a decade.) This is of course lead to a lot more garbage being produced, but I think that's the price of giving people the freedom to make what they want without needing a whole team of people, and there is going to be a lot of awesome stuff that would have never been possible before. People need to realize that it takes a long time for technology to reach any sort of maturity, a period of time that often outlives the hype period. Its also not going to be a person writing a prompt and producing something. They are going to have put in some effort. Fully automated content generation is a pipe-dream since it would require an AGI which is something that is pretty distant in the future. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 05:01
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I think its more that people can't feasibly learn every art skill and have time enough to make their own projects on their own. Nor are most people going to be feasibly able to pay a team to make it. Its going to eventually lead to a lot more independent projects. (AI is not currently ready for production, but I could see it reaching that point in a decade.) This is of course lead to a lot more garbage being produced, but I think that's the price of giving people the freedom to make what they want without needing a whole team of people, and there is going to be a lot of awesome stuff that would have never been possible before. People need to realize that it takes a long time for technology to reach any sort of maturity, a period of time that often outlives the hype period. I do not totally understand the argument where ai becomes compensation for what people perceive as a lack of their own skills. We all have weaknesses, areas where our craft could improve, things that are just hard, but if there is real quality to a work seeming "imperfections" become unimportant, or in a lot of cases add to the texture. Part of how one cultivates their voice is learning how to address technical challenges in unique ways. So, what foundational weakness can these programs solve? If you have enough technical knowledge to produce an interesting animated film using midjourmey, would that not entail as much planning and effort and revision as if you had done it through other means? If it's a case where you are augmenting existing art for technical fidelity, what exactly is gained by making it fit a false standard of perfection?
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Sep 13, 2023 06:28
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I don't have any issue with AI being used for personal and indie projects. I'm highly irritated by multi-billion dollar companies hoping they can cut out creatives to eck out what amounts to tenths of a percent more of their total profits. I'm reminded of the disparity between Disney repeatedly risking his finances for the furthering of art versus the Eisner Memo. It's kinda wild that past civilizations saw booms of art in times of surplus while we've got the richest people to ever exist in the history of the planet and they're not willing to risk a pittance on artistic expression. They somehow just need more profit. I'll keep making art on my own time always, but I guess if all design eventually ends up getting killed by AI, I'll go into mortuary science so I can keep on surviving. 
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Sep 13, 2023 07:08
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What happens when everything's run by third generation failkids with no knowledge or interest in what they do beyond what runs up their high score.
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Sep 13, 2023 08:28
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What happens when everything's run by third generation failkids with no knowledge or interest in what they do beyond what runs up their high score. When there's no more room in hell, the Twitch streamers will rule the earth
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Sep 13, 2023 11:52
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Das Boo posted:Wooooof. That's a decision made by someone who's never directly worked with overseas studios. The one time I remember it working was with TMS/Telecom on DC shows, they were trusted to both storyboard and direct episodes. Which is why there are some very anime episodes of Batman and Superman (movement wise, with much more stylized effects animation).
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Sep 13, 2023 20:57
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