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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.
Combat Carousel in particular also crowds the poo poo out of smaller screens.

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NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Thanks again for the information, everyone. Was just wondering how, if alignment isn't a thing anymore, how this would impact realms, Outsiders, etc.. I guess if Law nd Chaos is still a thing Hell and the Abyss would still be against each other, etc... But then there's also "Evil" nations like Irrisen, Geb, Nidal, etc.. Dunno what becomes of them, either. I guess

Also this is super lore poo poo but I'm a big Zon-Kuthon fan. Despite that, I never heard about the idea Zon-Kuthon existed in the previous universe like Pharasma and then this fragment of him possessed Dou-Bral. This isn't in any of the books I've read and apparently it's only based on this guy's interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dKiL51pGE&t=876s

This isn't in any of the 1e books that I can recall and I checked Gods and Magic which I believe is the latest book on PF deities(?) and it wasn't there, either. Dunno if it's really worth anything but it came up in a thread I made discussing Zon-Kuthon on Reddit. Wonder if this is like the dude from Elder Scrolls who had all sorts of big ideas which never actually were used in the games' lore.

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?
Oh, the setting itself is still the complete same. Cheliax is just lawful evil instead of Lawful Evil.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

NikkolasKing posted:

Thanks again for the information, everyone. Was just wondering how, if alignment isn't a thing anymore, how this would impact realms, Outsiders, etc.. I guess if Law nd Chaos is still a thing Hell and the Abyss would still be against each other, etc... But then there's also "Evil" nations like Irrisen, Geb, Nidal, etc.. Dunno what becomes of them, either. I guess

They'd be the same thing? Like they're not like that becauae they're Evil they're Evil because they're like that so now that Evil isn't a thing they're still themselves.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

NikkolasKing posted:

This isn't in any of the 1e books that I can recall and I checked Gods and Magic which I believe is the latest book on PF deities(?) and it wasn't there, either. Dunno if it's really worth anything but it came up in a thread I made discussing Zon-Kuthon on Reddit. Wonder if this is like the dude from Elder Scrolls who had all sorts of big ideas which never actually were used in the games' lore.

It’s different. You have to remember, the development pipeline for tabletop RPG books is much shorter and comparatively wider than it is for say video games. The lore person for Golarion at that table is the same person who’s coordinating or writing the very next lore update on Zon-Kuthon, they’re not having to wade through a multi-million dollar project with years of development to make an idea happen. Also, this is a recording of a panel hosted by Paizo at Paizo’s own convention - I’m not sure of 100% exactly how their canon policy works, but this is a guy talking as a Paizo employee in his official role at an official event. That’s very different from the Elder Scrolls guy (Michael Kirkbride) commenting years after he left Bethesda.

The panel title is “Secrets of Golarion.” It’s meant to be a secret that hadn’t been revealed until then. Enjoy it, don’t worry about rationalizing it.

Jon
Nov 30, 2004
Are you looking for info on the possession of Dou-Bral in the Great Tapestry or the entity that possessed him? If the former, you want the fifth book in the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP, Skeletons of Scarwall. Page 67, the first of the two myths- this one called "The Broken Traveler";

quote:

Ages ago, Zon-Kuthon was Dou-Bral, half-brother to Shelyn (goddess of beauty, love, and the arts). Little is known of his original powers or the extent of their relationship, but at some point they argued, and Dou-Bral abandoned Golarion for the far dark places between the planes. Shelyn grieved for her lost brother, but was more horrified by his return. The church of Shelyn contends that before he left, the siblings shared custody over what is now her portfolio. During his travels in the void, some unfathomable entity found and possessed the young god, driving his original self into a tiny prison within his own essence. This alien presence filled the void of Dou-Bral’s godly power with twisted versions of the things he used to watch over and protect—beauty became mutilation, love became misery, music became screams, and the art of creation became the craft of torture. When Shelyn reached out to her lost brother, he pierced her hand with his black nails. Again the siblings quarreled, he responding to her tears and pleading with violence. Only after she wrested his weapon, a golden glaive, away from him did they reach a tenuous peace of silence and avoidance. For countless centuries Shelyn has tried to find ways to make her brother remember who he is—all with little effect. Zon-Kuthon acknowledges that he and Shelyn were once siblings but has nothing else to say on the matter.

If you're looking for information about Zon-Kuthon (or his progenitor) being from the previous universe, you won't find it in Pathfinder- for that, you have to look at Starfinder's "Drift Crisis" on page 134. Long story short, by the time Starfinder and the drift crisis occurs, Zon-Kuthon believes that the Universe is about to collapse and starts making a new chrysalis that will recreate him in the next version of reality;

quote:

A grim myth in Zon-Kuthon’s faith has gained grim credibility: the belief that when the previous reality collapsed, Zon-Kuthon escaped to spaces beyond the multiverse to avoid death and infect the next existence. Refugees from the galaxy’s periphery report that when the Crash began, a gravitational anomaly appeared nearby. Like some necrotic black hole, it began siphoning light and life from nearby star systems, leaving inert matter where once-vibrant suns and worlds orbited. With each meal, it grows, mutates, and refolds. What most consider a planet-eating abomination, many Kuthites have interpreted as Zon-Kuthon’s sacred chrysalis: an escape pod he’s building to flee this condemned reality and await the next—a sure sign of the end times!

Jon fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 11, 2023

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Jon posted:

Are you looking for info on the possession of Dou-Bral in the Great Tapestry or the entity that possessed him? If the former, you want the fifth book in the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP, Skeletons of Scarwall. Page 67, the first of the two myths- this one called "The Broken Traveler";

I know about the former as some version of it is in any bio of him, but there is some inconsistency here I've found, usually regarding his feelings on Shelyn. For instance, in the book Faiths of Corruption:

quote:

Other Faiths

Those who follow the other gods are insects, and you scoff at their pitiful attempts to prove their lives have meaning and noble purpose. Only the power of Asmodeus compels your respect, and this is still an arrangement of convenience. Lamashtu’s people may negotiate with you for slaves, yet their bestial madness is nothing compared to your enlightened one. You know that this life is a vale of pain, and that the next one is worse. Though your god may offer some amnesty to his sad sister Shelyn, you need not extend that courtesy to her worshipers—you may especially enjoy creating a canvas with their stretched skins.

Like if he offers her any protection or at least latitude is contradicted across sources in my memory, although I'd have to dig through all my books to make sure.

quote:

If you're looking for information about Zon-Kuthon (or his progenitor) being from the previous universe, you won't find it in Pathfinder- for that, you have to look at Starfinder's "Drift Crisis" on page 134. Long story short, by the time Starfinder and the drift crisis occurs, Zon-Kuthon believes that the Universe is about to collapse and starts making a new chrysalis that will recreate him in the next version of reality;

See, Starfinder is another confusing thing to me. Is it supposed to be the canon future of the setting so anything it says goes for the setting? Somebody told me yes, somebody else told me no. I always thought it ws something entirely different.


Arivia posted:

It’s different. You have to remember, the development pipeline for tabletop RPG books is much shorter and comparatively wider than it is for say video games. The lore person for Golarion at that table is the same person who’s coordinating or writing the very next lore update on Zon-Kuthon, they’re not having to wade through a multi-million dollar project with years of development to make an idea happen. Also, this is a recording of a panel hosted by Paizo at Paizo’s own convention - I’m not sure of 100% exactly how their canon policy works, but this is a guy talking as a Paizo employee in his official role at an official event. That’s very different from the Elder Scrolls guy (Michael Kirkbride) commenting years after he left Bethesda.

The panel title is “Secrets of Golarion.” It’s meant to be a secret that hadn’t been revealed until then. Enjoy it, don’t worry about rationalizing it.

Good points.

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?

NikkolasKing posted:

See, Starfinder is another confusing thing to me. Is it supposed to be the canon future of the setting so anything it says goes for the setting? Somebody told me yes, somebody else told me no. I always thought it ws something entirely different.

Starfinder is pretty much always considered a possible future, but not the definite canon future. It's diverged in some ways already (Nocticula ascending to godhood and being redeemed in Return of the Runelords after they already locked in Starfinder not mentioning her divinity one way or another is the main one I can think of off-hand), and it's mostly so they can do big events like this without having the outcome be obvious because everyone knows what happened in Starfinder.

EDIT: Also, don't worry too much about slight inconsistencies in Zon Kuthon's stance on Shelyn and how much he can be considered her brother vs an alien entity possessing her brother. It's a fuzzy boundary at best and scripture inconsistencies for the faithful to argue over just make it a more realistic religion.

Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Sep 11, 2023

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.

Lamuella posted:

If you have DungeonDraft, you can import all the lights, doors, and walls on your map into Foundry directly, which also saves a ton of time.

Same thing with Dungeon Alchemy. Nice feature.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Lurks With Wolves posted:

Starfinder is pretty much always considered a possible future, but not the definite canon future. It's diverged in some ways already (Nocticula ascending to godhood and being redeemed in Return of the Runelords after they already locked in Starfinder not mentioning her divinity one way or another is the main one I can think of off-hand), and it's mostly so they can do big events like this without having the outcome be obvious because everyone knows what happened in Starfinder.

EDIT: Also, don't worry too much about slight inconsistencies in Zon Kuthon's stance on Shelyn and how much he can be considered her brother vs an alien entity possessing her brother. It's a fuzzy boundary at best and scripture inconsistencies for the faithful to argue over just make it a more realistic religion.

That's a good take on it. Sometimes I think of things as too monolithic but of course not every member of a faith will be the same.

I remember a thread on Reddit asking about "normal functioning members of society who worship Zon-Kuthon" and someone recommended Laori from Curse of the Crimson Throne Adventure.

quote:

Laori displays her allegiance to Zon-Kuthon openly in her choice of weapon and armor (a spiked chain and hook-studded chainmail), yet her demeanor and attitude are anything but grim. Laori is chronically cheerful, always brimming with delight and quick to laugh. This affectation has somewhat damaged her reputation among the church, as many of the more conventional worshipers of Zon-Kuthon find her attitude to be irreverent and even sacrilegious, yet none deny her contributions to the faith. Even when discussing the finer methods of skinning a living man, self-flagellation, torture, or her open admiration of all things diabolical, her plucky attitude remains. As a result, Laori can be unsettling to be around, for both her fellow worshipers of Zon-Kuthon and those who see her faith as a horror to be stamped out.
[...] As she fights, she hums or whistles as if she were merely doing some pleasant chore, periodically punctuating a particularly solid blow with a giggle or a wink.
She's also a female elf. I couldn't help but think of Talis from Dragon Age insofar as you have this very perky, lively elf girl who is member of a church/philosophy I normally associate with stoic, humorless, super lawful types. But maybe that's just a common trope or character type in fiction.

Oh well. I'm one of those weirdos who just likes to read and talk about lore and not actually play tabletop. I do play video games, though. But yeah, I really enjoy Zon-Kuthon and the Kytons/Velstracs. It's also been fun taking a lifetime of watching Japanese anime and playing Japanese video games and using them to beef up the thinking of a Kuthite. After all, how much Japanese popular fiction is "Villain wants to eradicate suffering from the world so the Hero must stress the necessity of suffering"? A lot, although Silent Hill 3 is nice and blunt about it:

quote:

Claudia: She will usher in the eternal Paradise.

Douglas: What kind of place is that?

Claudia: A place with no pain. No hunger, no sickness, no old age. There will be no greed or war and all will live by God's grace alone.

Douglas: No this, no that, no nothin'. A paradise for castrated sheep, maybe. Sounds pretty boring.

[...]

Claudia: Have you become blind to all the hopeless suffering in the world? We need... we all need God's salvation.

Heather: Listen. Suffering is a fact of life. Either you learn to deal with that or you go under.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Items that can cast spells are limited to people who have those spells on their spell list, right? Is that just for things like scrolls and wands, or oddball items like Hand of the Mage too?

quote:

Hand of the Mage
Item 2
Evocation Invested Magical
Source Core Rulebook pg. 611 4.0
Price 30 gp
Usage worn; Bulk L
This mummified elf hand hangs on a golden chain, its gnarled fingers locked in a peculiar pattern.
Activate [two-actions] command, envision ; Effect You cast mage hand.


But the sparkblade would be okay for anyone, because even though the effect is very similar to Electric Arc it doesn't say "you cast electric arc".

quote:

Sparkblade
Item 3
Evocation Magical
Source Troubles in Otari pg. 60
Price 70 gp
Bulk L
Base Weapon Shortsword
Faint, delicate etchings of lightning trace across the blade of this +1 cold iron shortsword. Cold iron is made from particularly pure sources of iron and shaped with little to no heat, resulting in weapons deadly to demons and fey alike. Once per day, you can spend 1 action to point the sparkblade at a foe within 30 feet of you and shoot an arc of lightning from the blade. This lightning can leap from your chosen foe to another creature you choose within 30 feet, dealing 2d4+4 electricity damage to each creature (DC 19 basic Reflex save).

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Both of those items are usable in full by any one regardless of casting list or ability.

The trait for needing to be able to cast a spell is the "Cast a Spell" trait under the "Activate" section of an item's description: https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=100

See this wand:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2275

Whereas the Hand is "Command" and "Envision" as the Activate components. So it'd gain the Concentration and Auditory traits for when those are relevant.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




DemonMage posted:

Both of those items are usable in full by any one regardless of casting list or ability.

The trait for needing to be able to cast a spell is the "Cast a Spell" trait under the "Activate" section of an item's description: https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=100

See this wand:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2275

Whereas the Hand is "Command" and "Envision" as the Activate components. So it'd gain the Concentration and Auditory traits for when those are relevant.

That is so cool, thank you!

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013

Facebook Aunt posted:

Items that can cast spells are limited to people who have those spells on their spell list, right?

Incorrect. Scrolls, wands, and staves include this explicit requirement:

quote:

To Cast a Spell from a (scroll, wand, or staff), the spell must appear on your spell list.

Other magic items don't, like spellhearts, which anybody can use to cast spells.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Roadie posted:

Incorrect. Scrolls, wands, and staves include this explicit requirement:

Other magic items don't, like spellhearts, which anybody can use to cast spells.

Neat.

After playing 5 sessions of 1 shots I ended up DMing a game at a local community center a few weeks ago, so I'm having to get better at the rules fast. The archives of nethys help, but sometimes I'm still left scratching my head.

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

NikkolasKing posted:

Thanks again for the information, everyone. Was just wondering how, if alignment isn't a thing anymore, how this would impact realms, Outsiders, etc.. I guess if Law nd Chaos is still a thing Hell and the Abyss would still be against each other, etc... But then there's also "Evil" nations like Irrisen, Geb, Nidal, etc.. Dunno what becomes of them, either. I guess

Also this is super lore poo poo but I'm a big Zon-Kuthon fan. Despite that, I never heard about the idea Zon-Kuthon existed in the previous universe like Pharasma and then this fragment of him possessed Dou-Bral. This isn't in any of the books I've read and apparently it's only based on this guy's interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dKiL51pGE&t=876s

This isn't in any of the 1e books that I can recall and I checked Gods and Magic which I believe is the latest book on PF deities(?) and it wasn't there, either. Dunno if it's really worth anything but it came up in a thread I made discussing Zon-Kuthon on Reddit. Wonder if this is like the dude from Elder Scrolls who had all sorts of big ideas which never actually were used in the games' lore.

I checked the Nidal book after looking at the interview and it states that Dou-Bral encountered an unspeakable horror that turned him into Zon-Kuthon and that the Usk Lake shows glimpses of the space between the stars where Zon-Kuthon shed his previous self and became the Prince of Pain.

So they never state what was the thing that changed him, so it could just be the secret that what changed Dou-Bral into Zon-Kuthon was in fact Zon-Kuthon. It’s a terribly funky bit of lore with implications about how cyclical the Pathfinder universe is. Probably why they haven’t stated it yet.

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



That BB dragon fight is rough.

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

Roadie posted:

Incorrect. Scrolls, wands, and staves include this explicit requirement:

Other magic items don't, like spellhearts, which anybody can use to cast spells.

To clarify, anyone who can already cast spells as either a caster or with a basic spellcasting multiclass archetype feat (which also counts as having the spellcasting class feature) can use Spellhearts to cast spells. They don't need to be on your spell list, but still you need to fulfill the 'Cast a Spell' requirements in the first place.

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

The Slack Lagoon posted:

That BB dragon fight is rough.

At low levels, any boss fight against a higher level creature is rough. A single crit can put someone down and they have an excellent chance of critting and you just have less resources to use. Particuarly with a creature with pushed action economy like a dragon.

As you get up in level, your hp scales faster than your damage, so a single crit is not the potential disaster it is at lower levels, but early on things can be rough.

My 90% TPK encounter is a party of 4 level 1s vs a Barbazu in narrow confines. Its technically an extreme encounter, but i don't see it as a winnable one unless the party really knows what they are doing.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk

The Slack Lagoon posted:

That BB dragon fight is rough.

I'm pretty sure that fight's purpose is to teach the dying rules. It is also a great time for a tpk because people can just roll up new characters and start a proper campaign.

My party was able to beat it but it was really close.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

NikkolasKing posted:

Thanks again for the information, everyone. Was just wondering how, if alignment isn't a thing anymore, how this would impact realms, Outsiders, etc.. I guess if Law nd Chaos is still a thing Hell and the Abyss would still be against each other, etc... But then there's also "Evil" nations like Irrisen, Geb, Nidal, etc.. Dunno what becomes of them, either. I guess

Also this is super lore poo poo but I'm a big Zon-Kuthon fan. Despite that, I never heard about the idea Zon-Kuthon existed in the previous universe like Pharasma and then this fragment of him possessed Dou-Bral. This isn't in any of the books I've read and apparently it's only based on this guy's interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dKiL51pGE&t=876s

This isn't in any of the 1e books that I can recall and I checked Gods and Magic which I believe is the latest book on PF deities(?) and it wasn't there, either. Dunno if it's really worth anything but it came up in a thread I made discussing Zon-Kuthon on Reddit. Wonder if this is like the dude from Elder Scrolls who had all sorts of big ideas which never actually were used in the games' lore.

Speaking of the Abyss, it’s actually getting renamed. If I recall correctly it’s going to be the Outer Rifts now.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Clerical Terrors posted:

Member of my Gatewalkers group alerted me to this: a long twitter thread by Paizo design manager Michael Sayre on balancing classes from PF1E to 2E, and spellcasters in particular: https://twitter.com/MichaelJSayre1/status/1700183812452569261

apropos of nothing how are you liking Gatewalkers? A friend is thinking of GMing it since we don't want to do Season of Ghosts until the Tian Xia books are out

Hugoon Chavez
Nov 4, 2011

THUNDERDOME LOSER

HidaO-Win posted:

At low levels, any boss fight against a higher level creature is rough. A single crit can put someone down and they have an excellent chance of critting and you just have less resources to use. Particuarly with a creature with pushed action economy like a dragon.

I introduced the "begginer's luck" house rule for my BB game in which, until level 3, players can use their hero point to turn a crit into a hit. It got used twice on that fight and even then our summoner almost died!

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

Blockhouse posted:

apropos of nothing how are you liking Gatewalkers? A friend is thinking of GMing it since we don't want to do Season of Ghosts until the Tian Xia books are out

I like it so far, the core mystery is compelling and you get dripfed more information which raises more questions in a way I think works to keep the plot engaging without becoming predictable. It's generally a lot more plot and interaction-heavy than something like Abomination Vaults where it doesn't really kick in until much later. Also a lot less geographically constrained: you end up going all over Golarion.

Mechanically it's also pretty good so far but your GM has to pick and choose what systems they like or dislike. Our GM has actually reduced the number of "filler" fights because there's a few near the middle that just don't contribute much or offer any interesting mechanical puzzle to solve. There's also more emphasis on traversal and using mechanics like survival checks, rationing etc. though no true exploration so far. Instead the AP apparently recommends you keep track of the party's progress geographically and just throw random encounters at them at your leisure, our GM swapped this for a few higher level random encounters instead of just throwing roaming packs of disposable mooks at us.

Clerical Terrors fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Sep 12, 2023

Kwolok
Jan 4, 2022
I have only just started getting into p2e after seeing DND for a long time. I'm slowly making my way through the core rule book and I have to say it all seems so much more fun.

That being said I keep hearing whispers about changes coming. Is there some big new edition on the horizon?

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen
They're doing a full break from everything DND/OGL related because of what happened about that a while ago.

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
they're also doing some touch-ups on classes and rebalancing, but apparently it's not even as significant as 3 -> 3.5 was in terms of overall changes.

Kwolok
Jan 4, 2022
So when will this all be officially done? Will there be a new release?

Ravus Ursus
Mar 30, 2017

New dm and players book at the end of this year.

A Meatslab
Apr 15, 2010

Kwolok posted:

I have only just started getting into p2e after seeing DND for a long time. I'm slowly making my way through the core rule book and I have to say it all seems so much more fun.

That being said I keep hearing whispers about changes coming. Is there some big new edition on the horizon?

Not a new edition, but basically a large-scale revision. The core of how the game plays (3 action turns, skill-based actions, etc.) is going to stay mostly the same as what you're reading in your Core Rulebook.

The most significant stuff they're doing includes:

• Changing some terminology/names to make things more intuitive or distance the game away from D&D (e.g. "flat-footed" condition being renamed "off-guard"; magic missile being renamed to force barrage, tieflings and aasimar [and their associated lineage feats] being bundled up into a new heritage called the nephilim, etc.)

• Alignment being removed in favor of doubling down on edicts/anathema and using sanctified holy/unholy spirit damage in place of alignment damage.

• Spell schools being removed in favor of doubling down on spell traits.

• Clarified language on some rule elements that were a bit hard to work with before (biggest example being with Recall Knowledge).

Core Rulebook & Advanced Player's Guide classes being tweaked or reworked (minor clarifications or rule tweaks in cases like the fighter, revamps for underpowered or hard-to-play classes like the witch and alchemist, or, as is the case with wizards and clerics, overhauls to fit with the moves away from alignment and spell schools).

• Feats and spells being tweaked or rebalanced to work with the new changes.

• Reworked and clarified creatures and GM-facing tools.

• I think I saw somewhere that they're re-blancing how spell skills (Arcana, Occultism, etc.) scale for casters to make it more viable to use spells granted from sources other than your class, but don't quote me on that.

I think that's the big stuff, but anyone here can fill in on anything I missed. This will mostly overhaul and rearrange a lot of the stuff that's currently found in the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, Gamemastery Guide, and the three Bestiaries.

However, it's not doing much to change how the game is played, and any material released outside of those books (i.e. the supplementary rulebooks, Lost Omens books, etc.) might get minor tweaks or errata at most, from the sounds of it. The most recent two books they released over the summer already have these changes baked in, for example.

Reading the Core Rulebook as you're doing right now should still give you a solid idea on how to play/run the game. The new "Remastered" Player Core and GM Core come out this November, with the new Monster Core and Player Core 2 coming out in the middle of 2024 (should be able to find specifics on Paizo's site).

EDIT: some corrections, and mixed up the GM Core and Monster Core release dates, whoops. Should be fixed.

A Meatslab fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Sep 13, 2023

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?

Ravus Ursus posted:

New dm and players book at the end of this year.

To be more specific, the Player Core and GM Core (basically the current core book and Gamemastery Guide) are coming out in November. The big changes are removing stuff that's too closely tied to D&D and the OGL and having a slightly different set of ancestries and classes in this book. The Monster Core is March 2024 and is mostly taking the most OGL-specific monsters like chromatic dragons and drow out and replacing them with new monsters. The current Bestiary should still be usable, although you may run into some awkward changes. The Player Core 2 is July 2024 and includes all the Advanced Players Guide and former core book player content that didn't make it into the new Player Core. There's probably going to be more changes, at least partially because it includes Barbarian and Sorcerer which both have dragon-themed options that need to be reworked to fit the new dragon sorting system, but it's going to be 90% improved layout and reworking all the extraneous OGL stuff.

A Meatslab went over the actual changes while I was typing this, so just know it's mostly just Paizo taking the chance to reorganize their core books. Getting into Pathfinder with the new books is going to be better, but if you have the books already it's not so drastic a change that it's a waste of time to read them now.

Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Sep 13, 2023

Kyrosiris
May 24, 2006

You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".



A Meatslab posted:

I think I saw somewhere that they're re-blancing how spell skills (Arcana, Occultism, etc.) scale for casters to make it more viable to use spells granted from sources other than your class, but don't quote me on that.

Correct, you can see it in the Animist playtest materials, but you now are Trained/etc. in "spell attack modifier" and "spell DC" as opposed to the current "arcane spell attack modifier" and "arcane spell DC", so getting casting from a different tradition isn't inherently penalized.

Kwolok
Jan 4, 2022
Awesome thanks for the heads up for everything guys. I will get the new books when they release for sure and hopefully that will inform my first p2e campaign!

boxen
Feb 20, 2011

Kwolok posted:

Awesome thanks for the heads up for everything guys. I will get the new books when they release for sure and hopefully that will inform my first p2e campaign!

When you start your new campaign, make sure to update us on how it goes and feel free to ask the thread any questions. PF2e has a lot of rules and is fairly tightly designed, but it's a lot of material to learn coming in and if you've been watching people play 5e D&D the differences can trip you up since they use some of the same terminology (a lot of which is changing in the remaster).

To bring new players up to speed, the Beginner Box is highly recommended. It walks the GM and players through a basic dungeon that still shows a great many core mechanics in clear ways like a tutorial would, but is still difficult enough where a party could fully wipe in several spots. It also dovetails nicely into at least one campaign, the Adventure Path titled Abomination Vaults.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

How balanced is the game around getting striking runes and is it level 4 or 5 they should come around? We just made 4 and are kind of getting our butts kicked in combat by anything high AC. Despite having 6 characters, we're very low damage outside of some swingy crit outliers like our psyker's amped up heightened imaginary weapon swings that miss half the time. We only have one striking rune for the party and its on a crossbow that has to reload every shot.

I also wanted to ask does the Aid action get much use generally? I'm going to start opening fights with Bless as it feels like we need it. We flank for each other, recall knowledge to try to get weaknesses, our tank grapples and trips. But enemies are also breaking out of the grapples and repositioning out of flanks to flank us. We've fought a few high AC high reflex enemies that just clown on us as we whiff up a storm. Last time our GM started doubling our damage every hit just so we could wrap it up as it was past midnight. I was thinking of trying Aid to help attacks, especially when I'm using an action to maintain bless and don't have much else to do without being in melee range.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

A Meatslab posted:



• I think I saw somewhere that they're re-blancing how spell skills (Arcana, Occultism, etc.) scale for casters to make it more viable to use spells granted from sources other than your class, but don't quote me on that.


Close, but not exactly this.

What's changing has nothing to do with the knowledge schools that are aligned with the traditions of magic.

Instead, what is changing, is that, rather than having a separate DC for each spellcasting tradition, you'll just have a Spell DC as a caster, and it applies to any spells you cast from any source you get them.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

bagrada posted:

How balanced is the game around getting striking runes and is it level 4 or 5 they should come around? We just made 4 and are kind of getting our butts kicked in combat by anything high AC. Despite having 6 characters, we're very low damage outside of some swingy crit outliers like our psyker's amped up heightened imaginary weapon swings that miss half the time. We only have one striking rune for the party and its on a crossbow that has to reload every shot.

I also wanted to ask does the Aid action get much use generally? I'm going to start opening fights with Bless as it feels like we need it. We flank for each other, recall knowledge to try to get weaknesses, our tank grapples and trips. But enemies are also breaking out of the grapples and repositioning out of flanks to flank us. We've fought a few high AC high reflex enemies that just clown on us as we whiff up a storm. Last time our GM started doubling our damage every hit just so we could wrap it up as it was past midnight. I was thinking of trying Aid to help attacks, especially when I'm using an action to maintain bless and don't have much else to do without being in melee range.

Striking Runes are effectively mandatory. (As are Potency runes, and the equivalent Armor potency and resistance runes), and you should be getting Striking at late level 3/early level 4. Without them you will rapidly find you can't do enough damage to keep up with enemy HP. If your GM doesn't like handing out treasure frequently enough to keep pace with rune progression, or just hates the bookkeeping, you should be using the Automatic Bonus Progression variant rule. Because, again, if you don't have appropriate item bonuses, literally every standard monster in the game will outpace you, the standard encounter budgeting won't work, even the DC by level tables for skill checks will quickly start to seem frustratingly just beyond reasonable reach if you don't get +1/2/3 items for skill checks that your class might be dependent on.

As for the Aid action - at low levels, not really. It's occasionally handy for a way to burn a 3rd action/reaction for someone who doesn't have one, and it's great for collaboratively taking on challenges in exploration, obviously, but in combat it's a lot of actions to trade for a +1...

BUT, if you build around it, such as a Wit Swashbuckler with All for One, or a human with the Cooperative Nature feat (+4 bonus to Aid checks), it can quickly become busted good once you have enough skill progression to start reliably critting against that DC of 20, and handing out +2/3/4's instead of +1's.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

bagrada posted:

How balanced is the game around getting striking runes and is it level 4 or 5 they should come around? We just made 4 and are kind of getting our butts kicked in combat by anything high AC. Despite having 6 characters, we're very low damage outside of some swingy crit outliers like our psyker's amped up heightened imaginary weapon swings that miss half the time. We only have one striking rune for the party and its on a crossbow that has to reload every shot.

I also wanted to ask does the Aid action get much use generally? I'm going to start opening fights with Bless as it feels like we need it. We flank for each other, recall knowledge to try to get weaknesses, our tank grapples and trips. But enemies are also breaking out of the grapples and repositioning out of flanks to flank us. We've fought a few high AC high reflex enemies that just clown on us as we whiff up a storm. Last time our GM started doubling our damage every hit just so we could wrap it up as it was past midnight. I was thinking of trying Aid to help attacks, especially when I'm using an action to maintain bless and don't have much else to do without being in melee range.

You should be getting runes by the level the runes are listed at, at the very latest the level after that. Aid is bad at low levels because it's a flat DC but gets better as you go on once you can reliably crit on it and are a master

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
One thing to be noted is that level 4 monsters are very tough for level 1 - 3 because they have the double damage dice upgrade, so yeah technically a level 4 monster is doable at level 1 but it has a high crit range (due to level advancement and enhancements) and if it does crit it's going to be way more devastating than anything the players can do.

It's a quirk of the system and never this bad again; when the dice go up again it's only a 50% increase in potential rolled damage instead of 100%.

So if you are at a table where the GM/DM likes to throw one tough monster against the players be warned that at lower levels, this can be a lot more swingy than you would think.

Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 13, 2023

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Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Jen X posted:

To clarify, anyone who can already cast spells as either a caster or with a basic spellcasting multiclass archetype feat (which also counts as having the spellcasting class feature) can use Spellhearts to cast spells. They don't need to be on your spell list, but still you need to fulfill the 'Cast a Spell' requirements in the first place.

Thank you, that's good to know. So that would be only full casters or folks with caster archetypes, not just a guy who has a couple innate spells from his ancestry or things like a champion's lay on hands ability, right?

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