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Elias_Maluco posted:Listen to them too much and you get the ST, though Or Joss Whedon's Justice League.
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Sep 11, 2023 17:06
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YaketySass posted:The lesson is: when doing a sequel, always listen to the fans' complaints. AOTC did listen to fan complaints. There was almost no Jar Jar and Anakin was older. Issue was, the fan complaints were superficial, as usual, because they have no idea what they actually want and tend to boil things down to meme level stuff. Darko fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Sep 11, 2023 |
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Sep 11, 2023 17:10
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For real, Lucas listening to fan complaints almost certainly made AotC a worse movie Cutting back on Jar Jar's screen time (compared to what was planned at various points) lends more credence to criticisms of the character, and cutting the scene with Padme's parents (and the other poor children Padme helped) was just a mistake. As much as AotC is held up by some fans as the film where Lucas was most tragically in control, it is oddly restrained at points. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 11, 2023 |
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Sep 11, 2023 17:13
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I'm not a Jar Jar fan in the slightest but making His Goofiness have to deal with real Senate politics and gradually watching him become a starch-shirted empty-headed politician would have been interesting.
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Sep 11, 2023 17:34
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uhh, let meesa be clear...
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Sep 11, 2023 17:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm not a Jar Jar fan in the slightest but making His Goofiness have to deal with real Senate politics and gradually watching him become a starch-shirted empty-headed politician would have been interesting. This makes me realize that Jar Jar is basically frogman Kevin McCarthy and that's just ... sad.
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Sep 11, 2023 17:49
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I just watched a Sheev supercut on Youtube and finally realized Sheev is the protagonist of Episode 1. I mean, the movie is literally named about him.
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Sep 11, 2023 18:42
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if it was about Maul it'd be The Devil Menace
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Sep 11, 2023 19:01
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm not a Jar Jar fan in the slightest but making His Goofiness have to deal with real Senate politics and gradually watching him become a starch-shirted empty-headed politician would have been interesting. A remake of The Candidate with Jar Jar in the Redford role would be inspired.
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Sep 11, 2023 20:06
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Captain Jesus posted:I guess I am one of the few people who like ROTS the least of the prequels. I was a hardcore fanboy when it came out and I was incredibly stoked going to see it in a cinema for the first time, but I felt there was something off about it from the beginning. The entire sequence on the Grievous ship is oddly cartoony. The droids speak with different voices and there's a huge ammount of slapstick and fake looking CGI. This sequence is probably my least favorite in the prequels. The movie gets better afterwards but I always felt there was something missing. Anakin's turn feels rushed - mainly the point when he bends the knee to Sheev and immediatelly goes to kill children - and Yoda's and Obi-Wan's absence from Coruscant is forced. There's nothing interesting about their CGI adventures on Kashyyk and Utapau (with the exception of Obi-Wan being an arrogant shithead), the plot just requires their absence from Coruscant. I contest that the grievous stuff is the most interesting because he is literally the grim reaper in a story about inevitable death. In the context of the story about Anakin making a Faustian bargain, I think it is interesting that the devil himself makes a bargain with death in the interest of prolonging life. Symbolically he is superceded by Vader and palpatine, palpatine takes his ghoul form almost immediately after grievous dies, but obi wan kills death and steals his car. Later, he fails at his job of killing Anakin. In my last rewatch, it hit me that the Jedi are all in heaven. Obviously a few of them are ghosts beaming into their meeting, but the Jedi temple is full of ethereal light and fluffy clouds. Mourn them do not, miss them do not.
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Sep 11, 2023 21:35
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Darko posted:AOTC did listen to fan complaints. There was almost no Jar Jar and Anakin was older. Issue was, the fan complaints were superficial, as usual, because they have no idea what they actually want and tend to boil things down to meme level stuff. Anakin being older was going to happen anyway as fast as I understand
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Sep 12, 2023 00:01
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Cartoon Man posted:Here’s some hosed up news. Just a followup on this. He killed himself today while awaiting trial: https://www.wlwt.com/article/fluke-...20organizations
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Sep 12, 2023 00:01
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had a sequel thought: leia's arc in the sequels is the same as padme's in the prequels, where she spends two movies buying into her own hype and then kills herself out of depression at the end of the third when she realises she's already become the very thing she sought to destroy. the issue, as per usual, is that abrams and johnson were perfectly happy to have disney edit all the movies into oblivion to obfuscate this
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Sep 12, 2023 00:06
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ungulateman posted:seismic charges.
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Sep 12, 2023 00:08
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Darko posted:I just watched a Sheev supercut on Youtube and finally realized Sheev is the protagonist of Episode 1. I mean, the movie is literally named about him.
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Sep 12, 2023 00:22
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm not a Jar Jar fan in the slightest but making His Goofiness have to deal with real Senate politics and gradually watching him become a starch-shirted empty-headed politician would have been interesting. I unironically was hoping to see Senator Binx pop up briefly in Andor at the party or something
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Sep 12, 2023 00:35
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A scene where Luthen struggles to keep up the shopkeeper facade while jar jar makes barely concealed overtures to getting involved with the rebellion as he clumsily smashes the expensive merchandise. His driver is furiously making notes as he does this but he’s just making a tally of damages because he’s always doing this poo poo, setting off a Coen Brothers type plot culminating in Luthen getting himself killed from blowing his cover over trying to steal what turns out to be a Senate Insurance Committee claim form, leaving Mon Mothma to lead the rebellion and eventually found a weak new republic. Post credits scene of an elderly jar jar getting on a transport leaving hosnian prime just before the first order wipes it out
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Sep 12, 2023 00:54
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Anakin being older was going to happen anyway as fast as I understand This is correct. Just saying the surface complaints were covered in the second movie, which also resulted in fan arguments between those that did and did not like it based around the did saying "it gave you what you wanted."
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Sep 12, 2023 03:15
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Anakin being older was going to happen anyway as fast as I understand Alternate version of the prequels where Anakin is still a little kid in Revenge of the Sith.
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Sep 12, 2023 03:38
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Jake Lloyd as Anakin slicing and dicing his fellow younglings while shouting, "I'll try spinning! That's a good trick!"
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Sep 12, 2023 04:40
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Elias_Maluco posted:Listen to them too much and you get the ST, though Ghost Leviathan posted:Or Joss Whedon's Justice League. both of these qualify as "listening to the loudest fans in the wrong way" though.
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Sep 12, 2023 06:02
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YaketySass posted:The lesson is: when doing a sequel, always listen to the fans' complaints. Elias_Maluco posted:Listen to them too much and you get the ST, though I think Bill Hader had it right, listen to people when they say something's wrong but don't listen to their solutions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHHZSNw9J2o
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Sep 12, 2023 06:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Or Joss Whedon's Justice League. Also Snyder cut, were the old director cuts like unicorn in blade runner fan interest too?
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Sep 12, 2023 06:13
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FunkyAl posted:I contest that the grievous stuff is the most interesting because he is literally the grim reaper in a story about inevitable death. In the context of the story about Anakin making a Faustian bargain, I think it is interesting that the devil himself makes a bargain with death in the interest of prolonging life. Symbolically he is superceded by Vader and palpatine, palpatine takes his ghoul form almost immediately after grievous dies, but obi wan kills death and steals his car. Later, he fails at his job of killing Anakin. I like that in theory, but the way Grievous is depicted as fairly harmless doesn't make me buy him the grim reaper stand in. He's almost a comic relief. That on the other hand makes Obi-Wan look even more like a shithead. It's interesting how stoked for war he is in ROTS. He's having fun leading the clone troopers and killing enemies. He doesn't even try to capture Grievous, he's there to kill him. Even with Anakin later on he's just immediatelly ready to kick his rear end. Obi-Wan is a psychopath whose true colors were revealed by the war.
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Sep 12, 2023 06:22
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Captain Jesus posted:I like that in theory, but the way Grievous is depicted as fairly harmless doesn't make me buy him the grim reaper stand in. He's almost a comic relief. That on the other hand makes Obi-Wan look even more like a shithead. It's interesting how stoked for war he is in ROTS. He's having fun leading the clone troopers and killing enemies. He doesn't even try to capture Grievous, he's there to kill him. Even with Anakin later on he's just immediatelly ready to kick his rear end. Obi-Wan is a psychopath whose true colors were revealed by the war. There's this weird implication in Rebels when Obi Wan kills Maul that he's not there to protect Luke but to hone him into a Jedi powerful enough to kill Vader, like he's basically a vessel for Obi Wan's revenge. I always kind of assumed him watching over Luke was like a penance for his failures but nope, he was just playing the assassination long-game
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Sep 12, 2023 06:30
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Yoda and Obi-Wan’s entire spiel post-ROTS was 100% them hoping to eventually turn Luke into a super assassin to help clean up their massive past failure (Anakin). Their timeline got moved up dramatically with the appearance of Threepio and R2, and the murder of Luke’s aunt and uncle. They even withhold Luke’s lineage to Vader because they know if they send him to kill his dad, he’ll hesitate. “What I told you was true, from a certain point of view.” Fuckin’ hell. The old Jedi Order was chockfull of psychopaths like Obi-Wan and Yoda. No wonder Dooku (and others like him) bailed on them. Gonz fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 06:37
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That's a really common thing in the genre, reminded of the original Mirage TMNT where Splinter isn't nearly as much of a father figure to the Turtles, he explicitly trains them as weapons of revenge against Shredder and the Foot Clan. (and quite a few versions have Karai and/or other Foot Clan in turn seek revenge against the Turtles) That Luke rises above that and finds a solution above and beyond what his mentors were hoping for, defying their fears, is what makes the triumph matter.
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Sep 12, 2023 06:59
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Upsidads posted:Also Snyder cut 
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Sep 12, 2023 07:18
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That's the back story to Lady Snowblood. Her mother concieves her solely for to her to grow up and get revenge.
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Sep 12, 2023 07:26
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Anakin being older was going to happen anyway as fast as I understand Yeah, this seems to have been in his mind as far back as 1978. When Lucas first put pencil to paper to figure out the numbering scheme of the series, his first idea was:
 Obviously the list got cut down and the Star Wars trilogy was 4-6, but it seems like Lucas kept the idea of Episode I being a prelude to the larger conflict (presumably with younger versions of the characters), while the latter prequels would bookend the Clone Wars.
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Sep 12, 2023 07:33
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Mantis42 posted:I think Bill Hader had it right, listen to people when they say something's wrong but don't listen to their solutions. This straight up unlocked something in my brain Thank you
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Sep 12, 2023 08:47
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The whole point of being an auteur is not listening to the fans Does David lynch make films for his fans
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Sep 12, 2023 15:29
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I mean, yes, because his fans aren't squealing pigs who just want to see the same thing but somehow different.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:52
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Halloween Jack posted:I mean, yes, because his fans aren't squealing pigs who just want to see the same thing but somehow different. Im not so sure, a lot of Twin Peaks fans hated season 3, specially for only bringing Cooper back like 3 episodes from the end
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Sep 12, 2023 18:02
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I’d say the difference is they’re not David lynch fans but twin peaks fans. I’m both and because of that I’m like go off king do whatcha gotta do.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:04
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Star Wars fans aren’t fans of George Lucas but the franchise so that’s why they get all annoying when things go against the canon or whatever. I love Rian Johnson’s work so I was just down to see what he did with it Vs to see a new star war. Probably why these Dave filoni things bore me so much. I don’t know this guy we’ll enough to give a poo poo about him and so his work is just a new star war and as a new star war is boring as hell CelticPredator fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 18:05
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I am unimpressed with Filoni as well.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:07
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Dave Filoni has done far better work with Star Wars than Rian Johnson's misunderstanding of the prequels
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Sep 12, 2023 18:25
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why come at me personality lol
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Sep 12, 2023 18:26
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Captain Jesus posted:I like that in theory, but the way Grievous is depicted as fairly harmless doesn't make me buy him the grim reaper stand in. He's almost a comic relief. That on the other hand makes Obi-Wan look even more like a shithead. It's interesting how stoked for war he is in ROTS. He's having fun leading the clone troopers and killing enemies. He doesn't even try to capture Grievous, he's there to kill him. Even with Anakin later on he's just immediatelly ready to kick his rear end. Obi-Wan is a psychopath whose true colors were revealed by the war. In some ways, death is harmless. With luck, one day, you and I will die harmlessly in a bed. And relative to the greater conflict, grievous IS harmless, killing him doesn't stop the war, the other characters all just take his place. It is like obi wan interrupted Walt Disney's skeleton dance and killed the head skeleton. The key theme in this film is that death has a place in the cycle of life. While grievous embodies death, he has holed up (literally) in a city with copious vegetation, not unlike yavin, his robot crew at the beginning is lit all in green. His cough is a reminder that he will die one day anyway, war or no. So, death is harmless. Do you fight death or embrace him? FunkyAl fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 18:27
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