(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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Nenonen posted:Thanks, will look into it later! No problem!
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Sep 11, 2023 18:27
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Nenonen posted:Brazil's president Lula da Silva went off during the weekend about hosting the next G20 summit that Putin will be able to come there safely even though Brazil is a member of ICC, because as the president he will guarantee Pol Put's immunity. Now he's already walked back his promises, saying that it's the justice system's call, not his administration's and he's going to look into why the hell Brazil even is in ICC "Sir, your political opponents could use this as an excuse to arrest you." "Wha-? Er, tell Putin that maybe he should stay home then. Also what's the ICC again?" In oil and gas platform news, I would be surprised if Ukraine stays there. They'd need to dedicate air defenses to protect any powerful radars, which makes its own complications. I could see them leaving less expensive sensors there. I could be wrong, though: as the US Navy found out during the Tanker War, oil and gas rigs are quite resilient to damage.
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Sep 11, 2023 19:10
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just on some really basic human level I can think of almost nothing more terrifying to assault/hold than a fuckin oil platform
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Sep 11, 2023 20:12
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Herstory Begins Now posted:just on some really basic human level I can think of almost nothing more terrifying to assault/hold than a fuckin oil platform caves
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Sep 11, 2023 20:15
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OctaMurk posted:caves Space station
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Sep 11, 2023 20:25
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Putin's undersea base
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Sep 11, 2023 20:28
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Keisari posted:Space station We're talking about scary places to fight not dope cool af places
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Sep 11, 2023 21:35
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uk officials say russia targeted grain ship in odessa not a ton of new information, but the first indication i've seen that russia has expanded beyond targeting grain storage and port facilities to targeting cargo ships in port quote:The UK has accused Russia of targeting a civilian cargo ship with multiple cruise missiles as it rested in the Ukrainian port of Odesa last month.
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Sep 11, 2023 22:20
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:uk officials say russia targeted grain ship in odessa And the summary of Turkey's talks with Russia about reviving the deal was.... give in to Russia's demands. One of these ships is going to get blown up some day. The international community will do everything it can to let it slide but Russia won't be getting it's grain anywhere either if no one insures shipping in the Black Sea anymore. Definitely an escalation point to watch.
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Sep 11, 2023 22:30
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Orthanc6 posted:And the summary of Turkey's talks with Russia about reviving the deal was.... give in to Russia's demands. One of these ships is going to get blown up some day. The international community will do everything it can to let it slide but Russia won't be getting it's grain anywhere either if no one insures shipping in the Black Sea anymore. Definitely an escalation point to watch.
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Sep 11, 2023 22:49
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OddObserver posted:Russia is a grain exporter. Yes and they export through the Black Sea. If internationally flagged ships start getting blown up in the Black Sea shipping insurers will raise rates or not give coverage at all, which will affect Russia's own shipments. That is an assumption, maybe they'll still insure Russia's ships, but then again they might expect Ukraine to start hitting Russian grain ships in kind. Even if Ukraine doesn't intend to, the risk would be there.
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Sep 11, 2023 22:53
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OddObserver posted:Russia is a grain exporter. i think the point is that if the black sea becomes a free for all on grain shipping, then russia is going to have issues exporting its grain. ukraine doesn't have quite the reach of the russians, but russia certainly doesn't have free rein if things escalate edit: nm, beaten
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Sep 11, 2023 22:54
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Orthanc6 posted:Yes and they export through the Black Sea. If internationally flagged ships start getting blown up in the Black Sea shipping insurers will raise rates or not give coverage at all, which will affect Russia's own shipments. That is an assumption, maybe they'll still insure Russia's ships, but then again they might expect Ukraine to start hitting Russian grain ships in kind. Even if Ukraine doesn't intend to, the risk would be there. I think Russians ships were already moving away from international insurers before this ex: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-30/russia-still-reliant-on-western-insurance-for-half-oil-shipments https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...336b_story.html quote:Russian oil tankers are now insured by Ingosstrakh Insurance Company, the country’s fourth-largest general insurer, which already covers some 2,000 vessels. It is also likely to cover much of the so-called “ shadow fleet” of tankers expected to continue carrying Russian crude next month. That’s raising concerns.
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Sep 11, 2023 23:14
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That’ll reduce collateral damage concerns if/when Ukrainians start getting deliveries of submarines.
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Sep 12, 2023 00:29
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Nenonen posted:Brazil's president Lula da Silva went off during the weekend about hosting the next G20 summit that Putin will be able to come there safely even though Brazil is a member of ICC, because as the president he will guarantee Pol Put's immunity. Now he's already walked back his promises, saying that it's the justice system's call, not his administration's and he's going to look into why the hell Brazil even is in ICC
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Sep 12, 2023 13:46
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That's an interesting point to bring up, how many capitalists have been tried and punished by the ICC? Edit: and by "capitalist" I mean investors whose primary source of income is their capital. Stock holders, finance, industrialists, etc. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 14:07
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Cpt_Obvious posted:That's an interesting point to bring up, how many capitalists have been tried and punished by the ICC? I mean, none? I don't see how any non-military or governmental people could fall within its scope of jurisdiction (genocide, crimes agains thumanity, etC.) unless you were to make a fairly difficult case of charging them with ecocide. It's already difficult enough to sue directors for companies lying in their greenwashing claims, nevermind crimes against humanity
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Sep 12, 2023 14:17
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Could the head of a mercenary group be indicted or does that fall outside of the ICC's remit?
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Sep 12, 2023 14:21
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute Yeah, it's mostly straight war crimes. And only when the OG country won't do anything about it. quote:The Rome Statute established four core international crimes: genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression. Those crimes "shall not be subject to any statute of limitations".[9] Under the Rome Statute, the ICC can only investigate and prosecute the four core international crimes in situations where states are "unable" or "unwilling" to do so themselves; the jurisdiction of the court is complementary to jurisdictions of domestic courts. The court has jurisdiction over crimes only if they are committed in the territory of a state party or if they are committed by a national of a state party; an exception to this rule is that the ICC may also have jurisdiction over crimes if its jurisdiction is authorized by the United Nations Security Council. So most capitalists get a sham trial or a petty fine and the ICC can't "do anything" about it per the treaty. I'm guessing, I'm no international law boy.
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Sep 12, 2023 14:26
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The ICC is very new, but there were several war crimes trials at Nuremberg prosecuted by the US that targeted the big industrial concerns that used Nazi slave labor.
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Sep 12, 2023 14:44
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The leftist critique of the ICC is that major powers and in particular the US have functional veto over prosecutions. Hell the US has its functional veto written into law. It shouldn't really be a surprise that there is appreciable resentment towards the project.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:24
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I mean I don't think you can really blame the ICC for major powers refusing to play ball with it. If was in America's pocket the US wouldn't be so scared of it.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:32
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fool of sound posted:The leftist critique of the ICC is that major powers and in particular the US have functional veto over prosecutions. Hell the US has its functional veto written into law. It shouldn't really be a surprise that there is appreciable resentment towards the project. Ironically, the critique circles back to the uncomfortable fact that 'might makes right' so if a leftist wants a functional supranational judicial body then they need to get on board with the idea of Team <Insert global power here>: World Police
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Sep 12, 2023 15:38
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That is what Brazil and Lula are doing, forming a new power bloc. One in which they believe they have more agency and control.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:47
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ummel posted:So most capitalists get a sham trial or a petty fine and the ICC can't "do anything" about it per the treaty. I'm guessing, I'm no international law boy. Sounds like the surviving remnants of Wagner would fall under that jurisdiction, since they're operating in eligible territory, are not being prosecuted by Russia, and have videotaped themselves committing various war crimes.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:51
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Cpt_Obvious posted:That is what Brazil and Lula are doing, forming a new power bloc. One in which they believe they have more agency and control. you know that he already walked that statement back
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Sep 12, 2023 15:56
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saratoga posted:Sounds like the surviving remnants of Wagner would fall under that jurisdiction, since they're operating in eligible territory, are not being prosecuted by Russia, and have videotaped themselves committing various war crimes. I'm sure that Ukraine will save them the trouble in case they get arrested in a country with an extradition treaty. Like the Rusich guy.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:01
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Herstory Begins Now posted:you know that he already walked that statement back Which statement? The brics formation?
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Sep 12, 2023 16:03
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Which statement? The brics formation? How can Lula walk back something done by Goldman Sachs?
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Sep 12, 2023 16:17
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fool of sound posted:The leftist critique of the ICC is that major powers and in particular the US have functional veto over prosecutions. Hell the US has its functional veto written into law. It shouldn't really be a surprise that there is appreciable resentment towards the project. Sure, though in a lot of ways that's like saying we shouldn't have murder laws because they're not perfectly enforced.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:23
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Which statement? The brics formation? Is that the global economic powerhouse where one of the members is having trouble converting currency provided by one of the other members into something it can use globally?
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Sep 12, 2023 16:23
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It's the one that controls the majority of manufacturing and oil production. VVVVVV  are you arguing that no production outside of cartels is worth investment?
Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 16:26
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I wouldn't say they control the oil production since they don't have the economic leeway to decide not to sell it, meanwhile the customers can and have decided not to buy it. What is the value of controlling the resource if you do not control the price of it?
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Sep 12, 2023 16:30
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Which statement? The brics formation? BRICS is about as real as T-14 Armata Sure you saw it couple times on celebrations but it won't walk the walk
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Sep 12, 2023 16:50
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Cpt_Obvious posted:VVVVVV I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion. I am merely saying that a producer who has no control over the price of their product or economic buffer to unilaterally cease production does not 'control production'
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Sep 12, 2023 17:11
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^^^^^again, you are describing a cartel Edit: wikipedia posted:A cartel is a group of independent market participants who collude with each other in order to improve their profits and dominate the market. A cartel is an organization formed by producers to limit competition and increase prices by creating artificial shortages through low production quotas, stockpiling, and marketing quotas. fatherboxx posted:BRICS is about as real as T-14 Armata https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/24/five-brics-nations-announce-admission-of-six-new-countries-to-bloc Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 17:54
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Announcements are cheap to make.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:18
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Moon Slayer posted:Announcements are cheap to make. It is rather amusing how much of the BRICS Wiki page is, “In this year’s meeting the group announced _____ , however…” At the end of the day, while the group might want to be compared to NATO it much more resembles its actual origin as a global finance concept.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:22
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BRICS is a super special club of countries who are defined mostly by not being part of the actual in-group in the G7/NATO/EU/AUKUS collab. They don't have any policies beyond holding up signs saying "We Demand to be Taken Seriously" in front of western media.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:32
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Cpt_Obvious posted:^^^^^again, you are describing a cartel You do realize that in a supply/demand system any body that 'controls production' is by definition a cartel. So the question is 'Do you think Russia is currently an oil cartel?'
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Sep 12, 2023 18:38
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