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haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Very disappointed that "eating rear end" didn't make the list

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Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007
I think you're all overthinking it. Soy milk is associated with vegans, a known chud bugbear.

And it's not misogynistic to discuss astrology when the current topic of the thread is astrology, specifically in the context of poster(s) implying that anyone who dislikes astrology is an incel.

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013
Lol @ crypto stats. Most hopeful poll stat in the whole thing tbh. Confirms to me that crypto people really are weird and havent made any real headway

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Quixzlizx posted:

I think you're all overthinking it. Soy milk is associated with vegans, a known chud bugbear.

And it's not misogynistic to discuss astrology when the current topic of the thread is astrology, specifically in the context of poster(s) implying that anyone who dislikes astrology is an incel.

It's not disliking astrology that makes you an incel, it's bringing up how much you dislike it that women do like it, that does.

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit
Grimey Drawer

Jaxyon posted:

It's not disliking astrology that makes you an incel, it's bringing up how much you dislike it that women do like it, that does.

Well, and the intensity of your dislike. If you dislike astrology more than say, any other obvious bullshit superstition, then there's a near certainty it's because you're a misogynist or have been led to dislike it by misogynistic content.

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
In smiley terms, "astrology?", normal people :rolleyes:, incels :rant:

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013
i think astrology is a stand-in for all sorts of weird superstition right? like crystal power and qi and so on

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

OctaMurk posted:

i think astrology is a stand-in for all sorts of weird superstition right? like crystal power and qi and so on

People who are really into astrology are likely to be into that stuff, but astrology is specifically the belief that the location of the stars and your date of birth can be used to definitively predict the future.

They didn't give any context in the poll question, so if a lot of people think astrology is X, then they probably based their answer on that as well.

Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007

Jaxyon posted:

It's not disliking astrology that makes you an incel, it's bringing up how much you dislike it that women do like it, that does.

I don't think anyone in the thread did that, though.

I also would consider it a red flag if someone told me that God makes all of their decisions for them, but that doesn't mean I'm /r/atheism who sneers at any sheep who goes to church.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

For chuds it is the same thing though. Astrology is an indicator that women aren't "rational" or whatever the gently caress.

Also lol at "we hate communism and corporations, equally"

The youth are basically mildly positive/neutral on socialism and capitalism, LOVE small businesses, and hate everything else.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
I am extremely heartened by Elon Musk being majority very unfavorable

Twincityhacker
Feb 18, 2011

...It's so weird that "prefers cow milk to plant-based milk" has become such a Cultural Touchstone. Soy milk has been around for over a century now and I think the only real issues around it was problems with iron absorption in babies who drunk soy milk baby formula, and fortifying the formula with iron pretty much solved that.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

zoux posted:

I think anyone of any gender that believes in astrology is dumb.

wow you're such a virgo.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

haveblue posted:

I am extremely heartened by Elon Musk being majority very unfavorable

I think it is kind of interesting that a majority of them severely dislike all the tech billionaires, but that Musk is basically 5x more popular than Bezos overall and has 7x more "very favorable" fans.

Bezos is kind of a generic shithead CEO, but he at least created a desirable service. He also (unintentionally) gets bonus points for cheating on his wife, which resulted in about 1/3 of his fortune going to charity.

Musk is just actively a shithead making life worse for some people. He got rich by being lucky and getting kicked out of Paypal right after it sold for billions, then bought a bunch of companies and started actively making them worse. His saving grace is that since he fired 75% of his staff, he has fewer people he can directly torture with his weird demands of employees.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Sep 12, 2023

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc
SA is so predictable in its contrarianism. Defending magical thinking to signal your opposition to the hated Other. Literally no better than what Maga cultists do. Smh my head.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit
Grimey Drawer
A lot of younger kids love Tesla and SpaceX so in addition to him being a chuddy incel icon, some younger people do place some value on the industries Musk has been involved in.

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005




That polling troubles me in that clearly the right wing propaganda aimed at young men has unfortunately worked.

Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007
I'm also surprised at the massive reputation small businesses have. You're much more likely to find a small business owner loud and proud at an antivax rally, fash march, or attempted coup than say, a C-suite Morgan Chase exec.

(White) small business owners are probably the most fervent DON'T TREAD ON ME true believers.

Quixzlizx fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Sep 12, 2023

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Nelson Mandingo posted:

That polling troubles me in that clearly the right wing propaganda aimed at young men has unfortunately worked.

Maybe, but young white men are slightly more conservative on some issues and slightly more liberal on other issues than older white men, while everyone else has gotten less conservative.

If 60% of older white men are conservative and 50% of younger white men are conservative, then how much of it is just younger people adopting the beliefs of their parents/community vs. propaganda working? And if the amount of young conservative white men has basically stayed the same or slightly decreased across generations, then is it really dramatically successful?

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Quixzlizx posted:

I'm also surprised at the massive reputation small businesses have. You're much more likely to find a small business owner loud and proud at an antivax rally, fash march, or attempted coup then say, a C-suite Morgan Chase exec.

(White) small business owners are probably the most fervent DON'T TREAD ON ME true believers.

It's probably more like the dreamy ideal of small business vs the reality of modern america as a coast to coast copy paste job of the same big box stores and fast casual chains, where for most of the population leaving the house at all requires you to have a car, drive a good distance and spend money. Also you aren't really welcome to loiter even if you've spent money.

Wayne Knight
May 11, 2006

Nelson Mandingo posted:

That polling troubles me in that clearly the right wing propaganda aimed at young men has unfortunately worked.

You overestimate their conviction once their beliefs start to prevent them from getting some.

Young dudes'll sacrifice any beliefs if they stand in the way of gettin' down.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Wayne Knight posted:

You overestimate their conviction once their beliefs start to prevent them from getting some.

Young dudes'll sacrifice any beliefs if they stand in the way of gettin' down.

Used to be true, now they'll find online spaces where they commiserate with the like-minded until they get fully blackpilled

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Magic Underwear posted:

SA is so predictable in its contrarianism. Defending magical thinking to signal your opposition to the hated Other. Literally no better than what Maga cultists do. Smh my head.

I think there's some misinterpretation going on here. People are pointing out that the Andrew Tate-style pick up artist, redpill, and so on chud-o-sphere uses "lol women believe astrology" as one of their shibboleths and being concerned about how many people are having brains worms from that incredibly lovely and toxic media ecosphere show up in their responses. That entire culture is loving vile to a hideous extent, and it's a pretty good idea to be worried about any of their poo poo leaking.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Under 35 being a young and fascinating person to speculate opinions about reminds me about how loving old all y’all are. We have children now. You can just talk to us on the street!

Re: astrology, As A Zoomer, it’s fun to talk about. I don’t believe in it but like it’s fun in the same way that your favourite animal or colour or love language or whatever dumb bullshit is fun. But as the poll shows, lmao, yes like 90% of the time talking to another white dude my own age they are wayyyy more likely to be all «omfg you stupid idiot you actually believe in that bullshit » instead of just having fun

Also not shocked that having and reading a physical book is so amazing

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
The FDA has determined that one of the most common over the counter cold, allergy, and decongestant treatments does not work. This could result in many of the most popular over the counter decongestant and cold treatment varieties being pulled from shelves and shaking up the market for cold and sinus medication.

Major brands using the active ingredient phenylephrine include: Sudafed PE, Advil Congestion Relief, Alka-Seltzer Plus Fast Powder Packs, Benadryl-D, Robitussin Cough and Cold, and many others.

It is the most popular oral decongestant in America and products using it as an active ingredient generates roughly $1.8 billion in sales every year.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1701630673797165213

quote:

FDA panel says common over-the-counter decongestant doesn’t work

A key ingredient in many over-the-counter cold and allergy medications called phenylephrine doesn’t work to get rid of nasal congestion, a Food and Drug Administration advisory panel concluded Tuesday.

The unanimous vote, which specifically declared oral formulations of phenylephrine ineffective, is expected to disrupt the market for OTC cold and allergy remedies, where consumers largely prefer pills over nasal sprays.

Phenylephrine — found in drugs including Sudafed PE, Vicks Sinex and Benadryl Allergy Plus Congestion — is the most popular oral decongestant in the United States, generating almost $1.8 billion in sales last year, according to data presented Monday by FDA officials.

The drug is thought to relieve congestion by reducing the swelling of blood vessels in the nasal passages.

The panel’s vote reflects damning evidence provided by the FDA that found that when phenylephrine is taken orally, a very small amount of the drug actually reaches the nose to relieve congestion.

Susan Blalock, a retired professor at the UNC Eshelman School of Pharmacy in North Carolina and an advisory committee member, said the evidence is "pretty compelling that this medication is not effective. I don’t think additional data are needed to support that conclusion."

The FDA will now need to decide whether to revoke the drug’s OTC designation as “generally recognized as safe and effective.” The designation, typically used for older drugs, allows drugmakers to include an ingredient in OTC products without the need to file an FDA application.

Without the designation, products containing the ingredient may need to be removed from store shelves, or manufacturers may have to develop new formulations. A spokesperson for the FDA declined to say when the agency will make a final decision. The FDA usually sides with its advisory committees.

"This drug and this oral dose should have been removed from the market a long time ago," said Jennifer Schwartzott, a patient representative from New York. "The patient community requires and deserves medications that treat their symptoms safely and effectively and I don’t believe that this medication does."

Phenylephrine gained popularity in the early 2000s as a replacement for pseudoephedrine, the decongestant used in Sudafed, which was moved behind the pharmacy counter in 2006 in an attempt to curb its misuse as an ingredient to make methamphetamine.

During the two-day meeting, FDA scientists presented the results of five studies conducted over the past two decades on the effectiveness of oral phenylephrine. All the studies concluded that the decongestant was no more effective than a placebo.

They also re-evaluated the initial findings used to support its OTC use. The agency found that the results were inconsistent, did not meet modern standards for study design and may have had data integrity issues.

“In conclusion, we do believe that the original studies were methodologically unsound and do not match today’s standard. By contrast, we believe the new data are credible and do not provide evidence that oral phenylephrine is effective as a nasal decongestant,” said Dr. Peter Starke, an FDA official who led the review of phenylephrine.

The concern goes beyond ineffectiveness; phenylephrine can come with side effects such as headaches, insomnia and nervousness. At higher doses, it can increase blood pressure.

The panel is not questioning the effectiveness of nasal spray phenylephrine, which is still thought to provide temporary relief from congestion.

Representatives for the Consumer Healthcare Products Association, a group that represents OTC drug manufacturers, did not offer any new evidence to counter the FDA’s claims that the drug is ineffective during their presentation Monday.

The group instead said that if oral phenylephrine were not available over the counter, it would be a significant burden to consumers.

The group shared a survey that found 1 in 2 households in the U.S. used an oral decongestant over the last year. It also found people prefer oral decongestants over nasal spray 3 to 1.

The group also said that other effective alternative options would not be as easily accessible, a claim disputed by advisory committee members.

"We do have an effective alternative in pseudoephedrine," said committee member Dr. Maryann Amirshahi, a professor of emergency medicine at Georgetown University School of Medicine, referring to the ingredient found in Sudafed. "That bar to the product really isn't as high as was described."

Patients who want to buy Sudafed must request it from a pharmacist.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 12, 2023

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I think it is kind of interesting that a majority of them severely dislike all the tech billionaires, but that Musk is basically 5x more popular than Bezos overall and has 7x more "very favorable" fans.

Bezos is kind of a generic shithead CEO, but he at least created a desirable service. He also (unintentionally) gets bonus points for cheating on his wife, which resulted in about 1/3 of his fortune going to charity.

Musk is just actively a shithead making life worse for some people. He got rich by being lucky and getting kicked out of Paypal right after it sold for billions, then bought a bunch of companies and started actively making them worse. His saving grace is that since he fired 75% of his staff, he has fewer people he can directly torture with his weird demands of employees.

Musk puts extensive effort into marketing himself, cultivating his reputation, and growing a cult of personality around himself.

Bezos doesn't bother with any of that, since he has an actually valuable business and doesn't need to puff up the valuation with extensive hype.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Main Paineframe posted:

Bezos doesn't bother with any of that, since he has an actually valuable business and doesn't need to puff up the valuation with extensive hype.

He also sleeps in a big bed with his bride. What a loser!

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Main Paineframe posted:

Musk puts extensive effort into marketing himself, cultivating his reputation, and growing a cult of personality around himself.

Well, he did, that's kinda fallen apart recently

Jaxyon
Mar 7, 2016
I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

That polling troubles me in that clearly the right wing propaganda aimed at young men has unfortunately worked.

Of course it works.

re: Astrology

All i said it was a shibboleth for a certain type of chuddy young man. Not that anyone in this thread was that person, or that astrology was scientific or real. It ties in with the "soyboy i drink REAL MILK" poo poo

Fork of Unknown Origins
Oct 21, 2005
Gotta Herd On?

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The FDA has determined that one of the most common over the counter cold, allergy, and decongestant treatments does not work. This could result in many of the most popular over the counter decongestant and cold treatment varieties being pulled from shelves and shaking up the market for cold and sinus medication.

Major brands using the active ingredient phenylephrine include: Sudafed PE, Advil Congestion Relief, Alka-Seltzer Plus Fast Powder Packs, Benadryl-D, Robitussin Cough and Cold, and many others.

It is the most popular oral decongestant in America and products using it as an active ingredient generates roughly $1.8 billion in sales every year.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1701630673797165213

That is one hell of a placebo effect then because I’ve taken this many, many times and felt like it worked.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

haveblue posted:

Well, he did, that's kinda fallen apart recently

World’s richest man

World’s most divorced man

Who’s askin

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

That is one hell of a placebo effect then because I’ve taken this many, many times and felt like it worked.

Idk the chemistry but non-US versions that still use pseudoephedrine always worked far better on me than the US brands.

Apparently it has a lot of adverse affects on our bodies beyond being a decongestant and stimulant but true to form, in the good ol USA we only banned it for being a component of meth

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Sep 12, 2023

MixMasterMalaria
Jul 26, 2007

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

That is one hell of a placebo effect then because I’ve taken this many, many times and felt like it worked.

Didn't this get marketed because they started regulating pseudoephedrine as part of the war on drugs?


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

World’s richest man

World’s most divorced man

Who’s askin

Being the world record holder for 'most time stuck in the K hole by the CEO of a major company' is a personal legacy, of sorts.

MixMasterMalaria fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Sep 12, 2023

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."

Twincityhacker posted:

...It's so weird that "prefers cow milk to plant-based milk" has become such a Cultural Touchstone. Soy milk has been around for over a century now and I think the only real issues around it was problems with iron absorption in babies who drunk soy milk baby formula, and fortifying the formula with iron pretty much solved that.

It’s part of the Mano sphere/“crisis-in-masculinity”/“they’re turning the frogs gay” alt-right zeitgeist. A lot of the agitprop around it when I started dabbling with vegetarianism in the early 00’s was that soy milk and tofu and soybean products had elevated levels of phytoestrogens. The talking point is that chemical resemblance to estrogen means that soy products have hormones which will feminize you and make you unmanly (never mind they don’t have the same receptor binding activity and are not direct analogues but that nuance was non existent amid those discussions). This spurious leap also becomes the grist incorporated into essentialist and racist ideas/claims about cultures that have been using soybeans and soy products for millennia, and why said cultures are feminine and inferior to robust, western, masculine lifestyles and choices.

It’s garbage but it’s part and parcel of a lot of their insecurities.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

MixMasterMalaria posted:

Didn't this get marketed because they started regulating pseudoephedrine for whatever reason?

It was because you can use pseudoephedrine to make meth, so they moved it behind the counter and set a limit on how much any one person can buy.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

haveblue posted:

Very disappointed that "eating rear end" didn't make the list

Millennials eat rear end, when drunk

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The FDA has determined that one of the most common over the counter cold, allergy, and decongestant treatments does not work. This could result in many of the most popular over the counter decongestant and cold treatment varieties being pulled from shelves and shaking up the market for cold and sinus medication.

Major brands using the active ingredient phenylephrine include: Sudafed PE, Advil Congestion Relief, Alka-Seltzer Plus Fast Powder Packs, Benadryl-D, Robitussin Cough and Cold, and many others.

It is the most popular oral decongestant in America and products using it as an active ingredient generates roughly $1.8 billion in sales every year.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1701630673797165213

I would have thought this would be obvious to anyone who had ever tried it.

Y’all were arguing over astrology while folks were peddling serious bullshit like “phenylephrine actually works.”

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The FDA has determined that one of the most common over the counter cold, allergy, and decongestant treatments does not work. This could result in many of the most popular over the counter decongestant and cold treatment varieties being pulled from shelves and shaking up the market for cold and sinus medication.

Major brands using the active ingredient phenylephrine include: Sudafed PE, Advil Congestion Relief, Alka-Seltzer Plus Fast Powder Packs, Benadryl-D, Robitussin Cough and Cold, and many others.

It is the most popular oral decongestant in America and products using it as an active ingredient generates roughly $1.8 billion in sales every year.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1701630673797165213

The placebo effect worked for me. But now I know better so it wont work. You broke this medicine, its your fault.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Seriously, if you have been suffering with these sugar pills, go to a pharmacist and pick up real pseudoephedrine to have it on hand for your next cold. It’s going to blow your mind.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

That is one hell of a placebo effect then because I’ve taken this many, many times and felt like it worked.


OctaMurk posted:

The placebo effect worked for me. But now I know better so it wont work. You broke this medicine, its your fault.


Baronash posted:

I would have thought this would be obvious to anyone who had ever tried it.

Y’all were arguing over astrology while folks were peddling serious bullshit like “phenylephrine actually works.”

I don't know what's real!

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Aztec Galactus
Sep 12, 2002

It's not the drug that doesn't work, it's the method of oral ingestion. So, it's not a placebo effect, so much as you are getting much less of it than advertised, and the FDA can't stand by any claims at that dose

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