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As far as I can tell the only stereotypically anime thing about Gargolyes is having a semi-serialized plot at a time when almost no American childrens cartoons did.Dawgstar posted:You know I'm still not sure what defines CalArts other than "I don't like this cartoon, especially aimed at children?" I have, like, half a theory that buzzwords like Calarts and Tumblr Style are a reflexive lashing out at art styles perceived to be associated with women and minorities, but it has not congealed yet.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:25
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Semi-relevant to this discussion is a term I've seen a few places and like which is Hamburger Shonen. In the vein of Spaghetti Western, this is American made shows trying specifically to go for an "anime" style. Avatar The Last Airbender is probably your #1 example of this.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:27
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Kermit The Grog posted:Semi-relevant to this discussion is a term I've seen a few places and like which is Hamburger Shonen. In the vein of Spaghetti Western, this is American made shows trying specifically to go for an "anime" style. Avatar The Last Airbender is probably your #1 example of this. Lol good timing, I was just wondering if there was an umbrella term for shows like Avatar, Netflix’s Voltron, She-Ra, MAWS, etc.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:34
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We call them cartoons
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Sep 12, 2023 19:00
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CalArts used to be the animation equivalent of being a comedy writer from Harvard, but then that gripe from the animation community leaked out a bit and turned into "CalArts Style". The school is far less of a monolith in the animation industry now, and many of the people the accusation gets thrown at didn't even go there.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:48
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SlothfulCobra posted:Although with animation, it's easier to lose track of that, since America is the world leader in animation, Japan is probably the second, a lot of influences go back and forth ever since the 80s (and a lot of the literal process of production). I think France might be a distant third so far as countries doing animation go. Was curious about this too. Though it doesn't account for output or viewers per studio, this wiki list of active animation studios per country states "the countries with the most listed, active studios, are Japan, United States, Canada, United Kingdom and South Korea..." and counts: Japan 85 United States 80 United Kingdom 29 Canada 24 France 11 South Korea 11 Australia 7 Also, the truest and most correct descriptor for anime is trash.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:15
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Come And See posted:Also, the truest and most correct descriptor for anime is trash. I love trash! Nom nom nom! Trashy trash trash!
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Sep 13, 2023 00:09
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Come And See posted:Also, the truest and most correct descriptor for anime is trash. 
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Sep 13, 2023 00:24
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Anime is the medium of animation as produced in Japan that derives from preceding and contemporary japanese artistic, comedic, and storytelling traditions such as noh, manzai, manga, and rakugo, among many others, along with genetic influence from golden age Disney and Fleischer theater animation. That's the core. Naruto is firmly here, or Sword Art, or Dragon Ball or Ping-Pong or Tatami Galaxy Then you have a wider radius around that, where in various distances and directions you find anime with stronger western influences (i.e. chainsaw man's coen-inspired cinematography), manhwa and Chinese animation, and western animation that has adopted the wuxia/tokusatsu influences, or manzai comedy, or visual language present in anime to appeal to western fans of anime. MAwS, ATLA, etc.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:34
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Anime is... Action SciFi Comedy Martial Arts Straight from Japan Totally Unexpected Not Kids Stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg5fR05st58
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Sep 13, 2023 00:42
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isn't josei a demographic...?? how is it sexist.....
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Sep 13, 2023 03:19
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Booky posted:isn't josei a demographic...?? how is it sexist..... The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 03:39
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cartoons123 posted:Honestly, I'm not really getting political commentary from the show, beyond that one quick gag most of it has been situational comedy. But otherwise yeah, Sitcom Writing is a skill, if you're writing for that you have to make sure the plots are interesting and the jokes are decent enough to hit. Looney Tunes Show is (funny enough) the closest comparison, and while it wasn't perfect, I felt like it had the cadence down better than Looniversity does. Which I guess in a way, is kinda exactly like Tiny Toons compared to the original Looney Tunes it was meant to crib from so honestly, one to one adaptation SlothfulCobra posted:I haven't really revisited Tiny Toons much, so I don't really have as much of a critical idea of how it worked. A lot of it was mired in specifically "teen" culture, which isn't much my thing, and I've gotten uncomfortable with the whole thing where early 90s cartoons were trying to cargo-cult classic theatrical cartoons without really knowing why they were the way they were, and Tiny Toons was one of the most dedicated to that (although I think they drifted a lot from that part of the premise later on). tiny toons was an interesting case. looking back at it, the first season or two were a bit hit or miss (with a lot of the misses being heavily due to being animated by those awful Kennedy Cartoons people  ). but as the series went on, it got a lot better, with some genuinely great episodes that still hold up. i think it's actually aged better than animaniacs, mainly cause 1) while TT also used a lot of pop culture referential humor, it did so to a much smaller degree and 2) thankfully had far less reliance on obnoxious musical segments.Neeksy posted:So is the problem with the new Tiny Toons the same one as the new Clone High where the new writers seemingly didn't get the basic premise or comedic voice of the original show? i'm 2 eps into clone high and i just want to say that Abe is like 20 times more manic and annoying than he was in the original AlternateNu posted:The best Tiny Toons episodes will always be the music video parody episodes and the banned one where Buster, Hampton, and Plucky kill themselves by drunk driving. - while i liked the music video episodes too, some of their choices were very questionable. as much as i like their music, i don't think any kids in the 90s were going crazy over The Contours - there was a somewhat recent vid by some youtube guy who talks about how the banned episode wasn't actually a thing and just turned into some internet urban legend. this makes sense to me because i saw that episode multiple times as a kid  edit: oh wow beaten on the banned episode thing a while ago Larryb posted:
possibly hot take but...it's not terrible? i mean there's definitely issues, but i was expecting much worse. there's some annoying stuff in there, but a good chunk of actually decent writing in there. one odd thing though is buster being very emotional about hampton seems somewhat out of character. aside from that, it's...okay imo Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 04:42
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Booky posted:isn't josei a demographic...?? how is it sexist..... It's a gender essentialist marketing category in the same way that labeling a show a "boy's show" or "girl's show" is, ergo sexist.
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Sep 13, 2023 05:26
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Come And See posted:Was curious about this too. Though it doesn't account for output or viewers per studio, this wiki list of active animation studios per country states "the countries with the most listed, active studios, are Japan, United States, Canada, United Kingdom and South Korea..." and counts: those are the number of studios within a country? cause if so, the u.s. number seems way higher than i expected
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Sep 13, 2023 05:33
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'hi i'm doing an anthology of comics for women' "WOW, SEXISt MUCH??" that degree can go right in the fire e: please do not bow back in because we don't need to read anything else of yours The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 06:33
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Open Source Idiom posted:It's a gender essentialist marketing category in the same way that labeling a show a "boy's show" or "girl's show" is, ergo sexist. bwuh
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Sep 13, 2023 06:46
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The 7th Guest posted:'hi i'm doing an anthology of comics for women' "WOW, SEXISt MUCH??" That's not what I'm implying; I think there's probably an entirely different intent behind your hypothetical comic series (I mean, it's hypothetical, it's hard to engage with what it is or why it exists in and of itself) and, say, producing vast quantities of shows for mass market categories and demarcating those categories as essentially gendered -- down to the names of those categories. Like, to bring it back to kid's shows, what makes Pokemon shonen? Is it because it stars a boy, or because it features action, or is there something else? Whatever the answer, I sense there's some level of gender essentialism to the categorisation because there's nothing inherent to those traits, or to Pokemon itself, that means that it's actually "for boys". Similarly, what makes Panty And Stocking With Garterbelt a male gendered show (seinen) and Sailor Moon a female gendered show (shoujo)? They're both shows with similar-ish set-ups -- and I seem to remember reading that the former was reported as being overwhelmingly more popular with women than men too(?) So what's the difference between them that causes them to be separated into differently gendered categories, and how are the traits that separate them not, in some sense, gender essentialist? Like, I don't see it, and maybe that's a failure of my imagination here. Also, I feel like your arguments are becoming kind of hostile, and I'd really appreciate it if you could stop calling me names or making the conversation personal. I feel it doesn't really help benefit the conversation or support this place as a space where ideas can be discussed and dissected. From my perspective it feels like I've made you mad over this and I don't really know how or why I've prompted this response, and I'm genuinely sorry that I have, but if there is something wrong with my arguments then please help me understand why those arguments are wrong rather than directing your disfavour at me. Edit: I think I'm just exhausted now. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 07:28
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Yeah no people are indeed getting weirdly tribalist and personal over incredibly mundane conversation.
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Sep 13, 2023 09:12
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The 7th Guest posted:'hi i'm doing an anthology of comics for women' "WOW, SEXISt MUCH??" Chill the gently caress out plz. I mean I don’t really want to defend this tedious conversation but this is totally unnecessary
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Sep 13, 2023 11:33
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Getting into anime and manga target demographics is its own fun thing because those are as wildly arbitrary and unhelpful as the Western obsession with marketing demographics, and things like the 'pink aisle, blue aisle' insanity in the toy industry. Panty and Stocking is a particularly amusingly unhelpful example, given its whole deal of parodying anime cliches and also affectionate parody of pretty much the entire history of Western cartoons at that point. (It was apparently inspired by Gainax animators going on a trip to America to learn from Disney, turning on the TV in a hotel room and watching Drawn Together. Presumably the unwritten part is while quite drunk)
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Sep 13, 2023 12:05
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Open Source Idiom posted:Similarly, what makes Panty And Stocking With Garterbelt a male gendered show (seinen) and Sailor Moon a female gendered show (shoujo)? They're both shows with similar-ish set-ups -- and I seem to remember reading that the former was reported as being overwhelmingly more popular with women than men too(?) So what's the difference between them that causes them to be separated into differently gendered categories, and how are the traits that separate them not, in some sense, gender essentialist? Er, are you asking why the show where the female characters transform while dancing on stripper poles and taking off their underwear is aimed at older boys/men compared to the show that... doesn't do all that is aimed at young girls?
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Sep 13, 2023 14:22
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sorry, those posts made me channel my inner stux. i'll bow out myself e: just like. idk how that poster thinks these classifications work. kids on the slope, chihayafuru, polar bear cafe, rakugo shinju are all josei. banana fish, yona of the dawn, nana, lovely complex, ghost hunt, and 7 seeds are all shoujo. seinen includes kaguya-sama, my dress-up darling, bungo stray dogs, umaru-chan, and non non biyori. toilet bound hanako-kun, dororo, gintama, and beastars are shonen. it's not so simple as 'this side is barbie this side is monster trucks'. and there's nothing wrong with a show finding a different audience than expected either... it's not a scathing indictment on the concept of having an intended audience i did not finish college and i don't have a degree in anime and manga studies so I'm no expert here, i'm aware that sometimes an author gets into a publication just because they take what they can get, but these classifications are more diverse than is being given credit to. in the case of panty & stocking, like a lot of gainax projects, they just made whatever appealed to them. it was an anime original project and the manga was an adaptation that just happened to run before the anime premiered. they've had multiple anime projects adapted into seinen manga publications, particularly Young Ace, so it may have just been a case of tapping into that prior partnership. certainly they didn't look at it and go "a comedy with two girl leads? that's not for men!" The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 16:09
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koolkal posted:Er, are you asking why the show where the female characters transform while dancing on stripper poles and taking off their underwear is aimed at older boys/men compared to the show that... doesn't do all that is aimed at young girls? Yeah is everything that has a female main character with powers (even if one is basically a sex comedy and the other is a kids action show) being lumped as the same genre somehow LESS gender essentialist?  Like even if you were trying to remove gendered classifications entirely Sailor Moon should still be next to something like Kamen Rider and not freaking Panty and Stocking. e. I don't really want to hammer on this subject or make you out to be a horrible sexist, but it's a bad example mycot fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 16:12
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Demographics are useful to an extent, and mostly in regards to age. There's a lot more connectivity in shared milestones and where everyone's brain space is at for certain periods of their lives. And there are definitely things that widely speaking, aren't appropriate for/don't click with younger audiences. The only time I notice a show "isn't for my demographic" as a woman is when it's insulting me. I don't find Panty & Stocking insulting since extreme is the name of the game. I also enjoy watching two bitches steamroll the world.  The insulting-me-as-woman scene that always sticks out in my mind is in the first Transformers where Megan Fox is telling you she's more than a piece of meat as she's straddling the insides of a car, making a pumping motion, while the camera molests her. Big 'ol gently caress YOU from me there, bud.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:32
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I feel like Japanese media, while it does have clearly delineated genres targeted at boys and girls separately, seems to put a more equal amount of resources into marketing to both as opposed to the tendency of American media to put a lot more funding into boys' stuff at times when the gender segregation of marketing is at its height. But there is also plenty of crossover between demographics for a lot of shows that blurs things. Some shows seemingly aimed at the male demographic end up with a mostly female cast that will fail the reverse-bechdel test. Come And See posted:Was curious about this too. Though it doesn't account for output or viewers per studio, this wiki list of active animation studios per country states "the countries with the most listed, active studios, are Japan, United States, Canada, United Kingdom and South Korea..." and counts: To be honest, I totally forgot about Canada. They definitely do put out a number of shows. Number of studios isn't necessarily going to be the same as which place outputs more, especially since so much gets outsourced to other countries. I'd wager that American cartoons get wider distribution just because of the worldwide reach of American media in general. No real idea what the UK is putting out. I know a couple of Cartoon Network shows like the Amazing World of Gumball were produced there (although that also seem like something I'd call an "American" show in international terms, it's confusing). Maybe Peppa Pig splits each second of footage with a different studio for each frame.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:00
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Elliot from Earth was a CN UK/EU show, not sure if that’s coming back though.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:11
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Pretty sure that's one of the things that was announced will be taken off Max soon (if it already hasn't) so it's almost certainly dead, barring some kind of miracle.
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Sep 13, 2023 21:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:To be honest, I totally forgot about Canada. Most people do.  Yes we gave you Johnny Test and Total Drama... but we also gave you Centaurworld, Hilda, Cuphead, the Spider-Verse movies, and the recent Ninja Turtles movie! It's time to forgive! Mercury Filmworks in particular is doing some top tier stuff. Canadians are responsible for the recent Micky Mouse shorts and we're coming for apple pie next! Speaking of Centaurworld, they had a small cameo in the Netflix interactive special We Lost Our Human (made by Jam Filled Entertainment, also Canuck!), and it is well worth checking out. Great animation, solid jokes and gags, quality voicework from Ben Schwartz and Ayo Edebiri, and the interactive element is far less frustrating than oh let's say Bandersnatch. 
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Sep 14, 2023 05:14
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America might have a decent amount of studios but a lot of them are likely doing advertising work rather than the kinds of shows we'd see regularly on a broadcast network. Even then, most of them take a more motion-graphics approach to production rather than the traditional methodologies still used in the Japanese industry, despite the move to digital.
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Sep 14, 2023 05:40
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Come And See posted:Most people do. the spiderverses are....canadian?? 
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Sep 14, 2023 05:51
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Sony and other companies prettymuch moved their productions up to Vancouver to soak up those sweet sweet film subsidies AND evade unions. It's why Titmouse has an operation up there and in NYC, while their LA unit on paper signs with the union.
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Sep 14, 2023 06:06
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like Japanese media, while it does have clearly delineated genres targeted at boys and girls separately, seems to put a more equal amount of resources into marketing to both as opposed to the tendency of American media to put a lot more funding into boys' stuff at times when the gender segregation of marketing is at its height. It's kinda funny how American properties keep touting this year's First Female Superhero while Japan's been actually making stuff by girls about girls and a lot of people like it, boys, girls and otherwise. See also manga rendering comic books completely vestigial since they actually have a comprehensible publishing model where you can just buy volume 1, volume 2 etc. Also anime studios seem entirely happy to roll with periphery demographics (unfortunately even when it gets creepy) while american companies seem to either get baffled or outright throw tantrums when the wrong people are enjoying their product and want to buy merchandise for it.
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Sep 14, 2023 09:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's kinda funny how American properties keep touting this year's First Female Superhero while Japan's been actually making stuff by girls about girls and a lot of people like it, boys, girls and otherwise. See also manga rendering comic books completely vestigial since they actually have a comprehensible publishing model where you can just buy volume 1, volume 2 etc. We’ve had female superheroes in the west for several decades now though. Hell, we even have a fair share of magical girl shows (She-Ra, Winx Club, W.I.T.C.H., Star Vs, etc)
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Sep 14, 2023 12:32
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New Fionna and Cake thoughts: One thing late season Adventure Time was good at was cultivating this feeling of the unsatisfying. That sounds like a dig or defending when a story isn't working out, but the show got more interested in sitting in these uncomfortable feelings that don't get resolved in easy jokes. It makes those moments when the show actually resolves things between characters all the more satisfying. Finn's relationship with Flame Princess fell apart in such an messy fashion. Its a solid three seasons/three years until they can get on speaking terms again and enjoy each other's company. So much of the current tension in Fionna and Cake is that Fionna fundamentally cannot understand what's happening to Simon, especially because she has no context for it. He's relapsing but no one around him can recognize it. As part of that, there's multiple people Simon runs into that have shared that exact kind of trauma, but they can't communicate it to each other. Simon isn't aware of Farmworld!Finn's history so they can't talk about it, Winter King and alternate!PB are unwilling to think about it in the slightest. Its really compelling and sad how much they're unable to commiserate with each other. Good eps.
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Sep 14, 2023 15:25
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Nerdietalk posted:
I'm really hoping this leads into the resolution at least, where Fionna sees enough of what the crown keeps doing to Simon, and realizes how incredibly bad of an idea it is to find Simon a new crown to wear. She got a pretty good taste of how crazy the crown's insanity can get, with the Candy Queen. Really enjoying this show a lot more than I thought I would. When it was announced I totally wrote it off as an AU-trash cash grab, but so far I've been excited to see where it goes.
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Sep 14, 2023 19:28
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The thing I like most about the most recent Fionna and Cake episodes is that Big Destiny continues to be the best villain ever, even after becoming a dad. "FATHER OF THE YEAR!"
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Sep 14, 2023 21:57
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Twibbit posted:First termed by the pedo who made Ren and Stimpy, and was more or less just any art he didn't like. So yeah you can ignore the term easily. and he wasn't even talking about what people think of nowadays when they use the term, he was shittalking The Iron Giant. anyways for japanese gender/age demo talk, a lot of that is often in terms of what the target audience of the magazine the original manga for the series was published in, which means that some series are not the demographics you'd think they are. For example, Eizouken is actually seinen, while Beastars is actually plain ol' shonen
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Sep 14, 2023 22:22
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One thing I really liked about the latest batch of Fiona & Cake: That Ice Marceline. At first you think it's some kind of magic or just how this world turned out. Then Winter King mentions to Simon that if he's so upset about Betty that he could make a new one. And then when the Winter King dies, Ice Marceline is gone. I feel like things went a lot different for Winter King in general.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:47
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I Am Fowl posted:And then when the Winter King dies, Ice Marceline is gone. I feel like things went a lot different for Winter King in general. My best guess is that since the multiverses are the results of Prismo wishes, someone wished that Ice King became sane again. Marceline, maybe?
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Sep 15, 2023 05:26
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