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Get a lawyer. Contratar a un abogado Beauftragen Sie einen Anwalt Нанять адвоката 聘請律師 Llogi cyfreithiwr Engager un avocat توكيل محام Ansæt en advokat Thuê luật sư GET A loving LAWYER
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Sep 13, 2023 14:33
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I do want to thank Ham for the thread content and hope they get their house and not killed over $25k and then I look forward to their posts in the Homeowner thread when they find the true undisclosed horrors
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Sep 13, 2023 14:42
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:The fact that you hadn’t considered that, or any of this, is 100% why you need a lawyer to handle every single last aspect of this. Regardless of how much it costs you.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:26
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What's the probability that the seller owns a gun.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:33
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I think the sale is going to go just fine because goons freaking out over nothing is the most hilarious outcome imo
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Sep 13, 2023 15:38
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People think you're going to give them money because of these statements by the way.Ham Equity posted:As far as we can tell, this will mean that the escrow company will cut us a check for the $25,000 in pre-paid rent and security deposit, and that will be ours to do with as we will; we think they're hoping we just give it to them out of a sense of duty to the sale. FFS, keep your $25k, you are all grown ups who signed a contract. If they want to gently caress around and lose $25k, then fine who gives a poo poo you get $25k to change your locks.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:42
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Ham’s addicted to the purple text folks. Wonder what will surely, totally unexpectedly go sideways as the day approaches so that the hits keep on coming.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:44
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right arm posted:I think the sale is going to go just fine because goons freaking out over nothing is the most hilarious outcome imo Same
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Sep 13, 2023 15:52
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right arm posted:I think the sale is going to go just fine because goons freaking out over nothing is the most hilarious outcome imo The weird thing is that as described the sale apparently happened almost a month ago. This is some sort of "check to see if the seller/tenant is actually going to leave" meeting. I'm not sure why ham is even going? Leave the keys under the mat. Maybe send the agent (and the lawyer!) to collect them. If the seller/tenant wants some sort of refund, have them send a letter. Baddog fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 15:52
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tumblr hype man posted:People think you're going to give them money because of these statements by the way. Baddog posted:The weird thing is that as described the sale apparently happened almost a month ago. Final walk through before the handover. Is that not a normal thing? Make sure they didn't take all the fixtures, like in The Burbs?
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Sep 13, 2023 15:59
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Ham Equity posted:Final walk through before the handover. Is that not a normal thing? Make sure they didn't take all the fixtures, like in The Burbs? A walk through before closing on the house is normal. Did you have one then?
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Sep 13, 2023 16:16
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Baddog posted:A walk through before closing on the house is normal. Did you have one then?
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Sep 13, 2023 16:17
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I just want to say that this is excellent username/story combination
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Sep 13, 2023 16:18
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If they pass the line where they owe $25k I don't really understand why they wouldn't just stay there for the 2 months they paid for. My guess is you're right about the DoR thing, so they will probably then demand a cash for keys to leave early. I don't see them leaving on their own accord AND THEN asking you for money. Their leverage is they legally can stay there for 2 months. This is a hosed up situation, though I don't know what a lawyer would really help with here as there is a contract with an A or B option and it looks like the sellers intend to take the B option. I don't really know why you entered that contract in the first place.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:20
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House-buying thread - IDK why you entered that contract in the first place
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Sep 13, 2023 16:31
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Ham Equity posted:Yup. Figured with the rent back, one before the handover would be normal, too. Not really seeing the point after close. Everything has already been negotiated and settled and signed, right? I can't remember ever doing a walkthrough with a landlord before handing them the keys, heh. Your lawyer should have some advice on this though!
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Sep 13, 2023 16:37
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Lockback posted:If they pass the line where they owe $25k I don't really understand why they wouldn't just stay there for the 2 months they paid for. Baddog posted:Not really seeing the point after close. Everything has already been negotiated and settled and signed, right? I can't remember ever doing a walkthrough with a landlord before handing them the keys, heh. Doing a walkthrough with a landlord before handing them the keys out here is pretty normal, too.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:38
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Regardless, the situation is complex enough that you need a lawyer. This is no longer (if it ever was) a simple real estate transaction. Get a lawyer looped in. My two cents is that if they just bought 2 months of house from you well, it's their house for the next two months tell them to enjoy their rental and use the $25k to month-to-month a place for you and your roomies to sleep. But you know, I'm not a lawyer so you should not be listening to me. Instead you should talk to a lawyer and listen to them.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:40
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Cyrano4747 posted:Regardless, the situation is complex enough that you need a lawyer. This is no longer (if it ever was) a simple real estate transaction. Get a lawyer looped in.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:42
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Alchenar posted:I just want to say that this is excellent username/story combination Nothing about this deal is kosher.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:44
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leper khan posted:What's the probability that the seller owns a gun. the seller definitely owns a gun. the question is whether ham equity is gonna see it or not.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:52
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Ham Equity posted:I'm sure it's fine. how did the his post slide by? you say the house is yours and you’ve closed but you don’t have ben have the keys? lol
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Sep 13, 2023 16:59
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Ham Equity posted:Rentbacks are pretty normal in Seattle real estate. Until relatively recently, people were doing zero-holdback rentbacks for like six months on all-cash offers with no contingencies and waiving inspections. We had all the usual contingencies (title, inspection, appraisal), just with a short rentback. That makes some sense. But yeah, it looks like they are communicating that they intend to cross that date without giving up the house, which is pretty straightforward based on what you said the contract was. I wouldn't believe them for a second that they are just "going to be staying a couple extra days". I think they're going to try to do a cash for keys, and maybe you can work out a deal with them maybe not. In particular I have no idea how that would work as income (the 25k you get from escrow) vs a deductible expense (giving back money to get keys) so you may need to figure that out ahead of time before you start negotiating. Part of my might be tempted to uno reverse them, part of me would rather this whole mess went away.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:08
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Okay. So it sounds like you closed the sale on the 24th with an agreement that they would stay in your house at least until Friday, and any time past that is subject to this pseudo-rental agreement at $8,500/mo plus an $8,500 security deposit. The sellers were required to placed that deposit plus two months in escrow, which they have now released to you. You have also been notified that they expect to overstay by at least one day. Contra the posters in this thread, I do not think this $25k is freely yours. Contractually, I suspect that you are required to return at least the security deposit (assuming no damages) and the second month of rent (assuming they do not overstay by more than one month). Whether you return the first month given the overstay is your decision. And I don’t think whatever portion of this $25k that you return counts as taxable income; it’s an overpayment that you’ve refunded. Also, none of this seems suspicious to me, other than the usual risk of overstaying sellers. But of course you should talk to a lawyer to make sure you understand the legal and tax consequences of all of this. I don’t think there’s any point in going to a “handover” if they won’t haven’t moved out yet, though. Do the walkthrough when they’re actually leaving.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:14
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Sellers are experienced crooks who knew OP for a sucker the minute they met them and are going to foist the DOR dogs onto their sucker rear end. Well played by them. e: ^^^ if I understand what I've read correctly, the hustle is that if sellers move out tomorrow that $25K will go straight to the DOR without passing Go, and if they don't, it goes to OP instead and then the DOR will be suing OP for it. And also the sellers-turned-squatters will refuse to move out of the house unless OP gives the $25K back to them. The funniest part is the thousands of dollars in tax liability OP will incur at 5:01 PM tomorrow with no takebacksies no matter how the rest of it plays out Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 17:19
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rjmccall posted:Okay. So it sounds like you closed the sale on the 24th with an agreement that they would stay in your house at least until Friday, and any time past that is subject to this pseudo-rental agreement at $8,500/mo plus an $8,500 security deposit. The sellers were required to placed that deposit plus two months in escrow, which they have now released to you. You have also been notified that they expect to overstay by at least one day. I think the money would be returned to the department of revenue 
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Sep 13, 2023 17:21
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pmchem posted:how did the his post slide by? you say the house is yours and you’ve closed but you don’t have ben have the keys? lol They're doing a rentback. Closing date and possession date are two different things (though usually the same date, they aren't in cases with things like rentbacks). This is far from unheard of. rjmccall posted:Okay. So it sounds like you closed the sale on the 24th with an agreement that they would stay in your house at least until Friday, and any time past that is subject to this pseudo-rental agreement at $8,500/mo plus an $8,500 security deposit. The sellers were required to placed that deposit plus two months in escrow, which they have now released to you. You have also been notified that they expect to overstay by at least one day. As to the last paragraph, the idea is that they are, in fact, leaving. That's the whole point.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:26
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Ham Equity, you do realize that the sellers are crooks? Why are you assuming that known crooks will behave fairly in a position where they have the advantage (still being in possession of the house)?
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Sep 13, 2023 17:26
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Its amazing how many posts have been made today that dont include "i just spoke to a lawyer" or "i am waiting for a callback from a lawyer"
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Sep 13, 2023 17:51
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rjmccall posted:Also, none of this seems suspicious to me, other than the usual risk of overstaying sellers. But of course you should talk to a lawyer to make sure you understand the legal and tax consequences of all of this. Without context, sure. With the context that the sellers are known tax cheats? And not only know tax cheats, but so bad that the taxes they failed to pay were significantly more than the value of the one asset they own. And they’ve been such a pain in the rear end to deal with that the department of revenue is willing to just accept less than they’re owed?
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Sep 13, 2023 17:52
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leper khan posted:I think the money would be returned to the department of revenue That is what I think the DOR is expecting, heh. At least that's what I assume when they told the escrow company not to release it to the seller/tenant. Then the tenant said, ok I'll overstay, so that contractually it will be released to Ham. And then..... rjmccall posted:Also, none of this seems suspicious to me, other than the usual risk of overstaying sellers. The state being involved, and trying to get ham involved to sidestep them by washing the money through him is the extremely suspicious part. Although these "rentback" scenarios are dubious and risky as hell, no matter how "common" they are now.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:12
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drk posted:Its amazing how many posts have been made today that dont include "i just spoke to a lawyer" or "i am waiting for a callback from a lawyer" I have a call with a lawyer today. Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Without context, sure. The "DoR isn't letting them have the rent money" was a surprise for everyone, with the possible exception of the sellers. Baddog posted:The state being involved, and trying to get ham involved to sidestep them by washing the money through him is the extremely suspicious part. Yeah, a lot of this is suspicious, we're not handing anything over without talking to a lawyer first, but in a competitive market that heavily favors buyers, you have to accept things that you wouldn't accept otherwise. It sucks rear end. I had to be talked into the rentback, for sure; I definitely didn't like it. But we waited until the point where we wouldn't have to waive a bunch of other contingencies like appraisal, inspection, and title in order to buy, and that seemed like a place where I'd have to give a bit. Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 18:19
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i dunno man i would probably not consider "house is being sold by hucksters who owe the value of the house to the state" as an acceptable risk
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Sep 13, 2023 18:30
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i dunno man i would probably not consider "house is being sold by hucksters who owe the value of the house to the state" as an acceptable risk Poor dad advice smh rn
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Sep 13, 2023 18:34
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I am just curious about who people think is supposed to issue the 1099 form for the rent, because I can't see the renters doing it.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:41
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quote:Escrow said they'd done this a bunch of times without any issues, and while, yes,*taps thread title*, at a certain point you do have to trust professionals to perform their profession. TAPS THREAD TITLE Escrow's job is not representing you. Escrow's job is not representing them. Escrow's job is solely to ensure that money given to them by party A is released to party B when legal conditions have been achieved. Do Escrow care if the handover doesn't go through? No. They've been paid their fee, which they keep regardless of whether the legal conditions were met or not. Escrow's economic interests are not aligned with yours. The seller? Economic interests definitely, absolutely, totally not aligned with yours. DOR? Their interest is to claw back the revenue. If the sellers refuse to turn over the house after you are owed possession, they don't care, because they've gotten the money. Economic interests not aligned with yours. Your realtor? Has already gotten the money, so economics interest no longer aligned with yours. In any case, after the closing -- you did say you've already closed? -- they're powerless. They can't do a damned thing. You can trust professionals to do their job, but only when their goals are the same as yours. You're trusting professionals who have no incentive and no legal duty to do the right thing for you. You are trusting people who have a duty to their shareholders, to their employers, to their own pocketbooks, to intervene in a legal situation that is not their problem. This costs them both money and time away from the work they are being paid to do. There is only one professional here who is obliged to work in your best interests. That is your lawyer, because once the contract with them has been signed, it is their professional duty to do so. You seem to be operating on the principle that reasonable people will do reasonable things. You already know that your sellers have not only cheated on their taxes, but tried somehow to cheat the DOR, very very recently, on the point of turning over the money. You should be operating on the principle that they intend to cheat you, not on the assumption that this will be the one time in their recent history that they are honorable. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 18:41
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daslog posted:I am just curious about who people think is supposed to issue the 1099 form for the rent, because I can't see the renters doing it. Arsenic Lupin posted:TAPS THREAD TITLE Escrow's job is not representing you. Escrow's job is not representing them. Escrow's job is solely to ensure that money given to them by party A is released to party B when legal conditions have been achieved. Do Escrow care if the handover doesn't go through? No. They've been paid their fee, which they keep regardless of whether the legal conditions were met or not. Realtors rely on word of mouth for a lot of their sales, so my realtor does, in fact have a pretty significant incentive to make me happy, and has been helpful in this process and is continuing to help us after closing. Obviously, she's getting paid regardless, but that doesn't mean that all of her incentive to help us has just up and vanished; losing future sales because of the customer you told to pound sand as soon as the ink dried isn't a great business model. We made a calculated risk on the rentback. And yeah, maybe it's:  But we'll see how this all hashes out. Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 19:21
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Ham Equity, you do realize that the sellers are crooks? We know the answer! It was the firm handshake. The kind that never existed. So, what's the over/under on Ham discovering how squatting/dealing with squatters works tomorrow?
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Sep 13, 2023 19:22
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Baddog posted:That is what I think the DOR is expecting, heh. At least that's what I assume when they told the escrow company not to release it to the seller/tenant. If it were me I would ask my lawyer whether or not we need to contact the DOR for guidance on how to handle any security deposit and advance rent refunds. I suspect that the DOR would say "give it to us pls thx".
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Sep 13, 2023 19:25
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Shifty Pony posted:If it were me I would ask my lawyer whether or not we need to contact the DOR for guidance on how to handle any security deposit and advance rent refunds.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:29
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