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leper khan posted:Per install fee. Have you read any of the gacha threads? Couple sweaty people gun their rerolls and you're out of business. The joke about uninstall reinstall is already normal procedure with them. Yeah for anyone unfamiliar, it's standard practice with the gacha hardcore to delete your data and reinstall the game if your starting rolls aren't good enough. People even use account IDs to try and identify their RNG seed and will keep reinstalling until they get one they like.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:08
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A Unity dev went off-script on the official forums and tried answering questions and expressing their own frustrations. The key point is that they haven't figured out how they're going to count installs yet (beyond that it'll be per-user) and the whole thing has been kicked out half-cooked despite weeks of internal protest.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:16
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Imagine being a Unity employee. Years writing a platform that becomes nuclear waste overnight.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:26
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The Kins posted:A Unity dev went off-script on the official forums and tried answering questions and expressing their own frustrations. Former* unity dev. *soon to be former
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Sep 13, 2023 15:30
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No Wave posted:Imagine being a Unity employee. Years writing a platform that becomes nuclear waste overnight. "Well after I got laid off from Twitter last year, I decided to finally chase my real passion and get a job in game engine develop-- sorry we're what"
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Sep 13, 2023 15:31
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leper khan posted:Former* unity dev.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:41
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every other engine, including rpgmaker, is using this as free advertising, too
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Sep 13, 2023 15:42
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No Wave posted:Its nice to know that there are a lot of sane people working at unity who have no decision-making power whatsoever. Well, one fewer as that person is absolutely done working there now, heh.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:45
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lol that they haven't even figured out how to count installs? are they just going to beg all the various storefronts for that data?
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Sep 13, 2023 15:51
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lih posted:lol that they haven't even figured out how to count installs? are they just going to beg all the various storefronts for that data? going by the 'probably undercount' and 'dont want to count piracy/fradulent copies' i imagine they're literally just planning to guess
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Sep 13, 2023 15:51
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lih posted:lol that they haven't even figured out how to count installs? are they just going to beg all the various storefronts for that data?
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Sep 13, 2023 15:52
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Because surely no one would ever sue them for actual hard proof of their numbers claims!
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Sep 13, 2023 16:01
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Endorph posted:every other engine, including rpgmaker, is using this as free advertising, too
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Sep 13, 2023 16:02
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Regalingualius posted:Because surely no one would ever sue them for actual hard proof of their numbers claims! on top of the wga strikes where residuals can’t get paid out in part because streaming services refuse to share numbers unless basically ordered to by pro-union-ish govs kliras fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 16:05
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The Kins posted:Isn't the latest version of RPG Maker a Unity plugin? Yes. They still dunked on unity.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:05
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kliras posted:facebook, twitch and probably youtube have been juicing view counts since time immemorial and managed to get away with it just fine. at least in this case, devs can threaten to cut ties completely Well Facebook didn't exactly get away with it and torched their platform as a media destination as a result.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:07
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kliras posted:facebook, twitch and probably youtube have been juicing view counts since time immemorial and managed to get away with it just fine
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Sep 13, 2023 16:15
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Aren't Twitch view numbers actually counted rather strictly (because it's Twitch who actually has to pay the streamers)? Like, Twitter is definitely making up view numbers (there's no way a tweet with a few thousand likes has half a million views) but no one gives a poo poo about Twitter views.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:41
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mycot posted:Aren't Twitch view numbers actually counted rather strictly (because it's Twitch who actually has to pay the streamers)? Like, Twitter is definitely making up view numbers (there's no way a tweet with a few thousand likes has half a million views) but no one gives a poo poo about Twitter views.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:47
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Also questionable embeds that people don’t notice, which was a Fandom wiki thing
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Sep 13, 2023 16:58
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No Wave posted:Twitch doesnt pay by view unless ads are shown. Their views are mostly reliable afaik with a few exceptions (things like fextralife wiki embedding views, plus an extremely sketchy service twitch itself offered to boost view counts that I dont think exists anymore). fextralife are very blatant in what they do, but a lot of people have stuff like embedded streams on the websites of their games to make a promoted stream perform better every now and then. and some of the streamers complaining about fextrlife have embedded streams on their own websites i think embedded clips also gain views just by the page they're on loading, regardless of engagement. might even get it from web crawlers. if this assumption is true, it's basically an impression metric, not a view metric and the twitch drops system (per-game rewards for x hours of watchtime) also conveniently make it unclear just how popular the actual game or event is outside of the people running it in 160p in a background tab with the volume at 1% to claim the limited exclusive skin kliras fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 16:59
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DaveKap posted:
This is their real target. Big companies already negotiate for special terms, and the fact that the cost per install goes DOWN as you install more means they don't want one company selling 10 million+ copies of a game and charging 1 cent per install, they want 100 companies selling 200,000+ copies at $0.20 per install. Really, they feel short changed by the rare games like Battlebit which made a massive hit which BLEW EVERYONE AWAY, beat the pants off the game dev they were directly competing with, and had a literal 1.47 million% increase in active players at launch. That team used the loving hobby license and still has the "Made with Unity" splash page because they're just a team of 3 guys and don't care about that, purely want the game to be good, run well, and to not be microtransaction hell like modern Battlefield games. These are the people that JR wants to gently caress over, probably because they're directly showing that his reign over EA and Battlefield was loving Dog poo poo and 3 rando's with minimal experience making games made a better product over a few years than he could get a whole studio to create over a decade. I guarantee you this is personally motivated at least in part to attack the BattleBit guys because of JR's former connection to EA/DICE. Crain fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 17:12
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Crain posted:This is their real target. Big companies already negotiate for special terms, and the fact that the cost per install goes DOWN as you install more means they don't want one company selling 10 million+ copies of a game and charging 1 cent per install, they want 100 companies selling 200,000+ copies at $0.20 per install. I hadn't even considered this but it honestly makes a lot of sense if you know/met JR.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:15
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njsykora posted:Yeah for anyone unfamiliar, it's standard practice with the gacha hardcore to delete your data and reinstall the game if your starting rolls aren't good enough. People even use account IDs to try and identify their RNG seed and will keep reinstalling until they get one they like. In many games you can just hit a button to wipe your save data and start from scratch. Deleting, redownloading and reinstalling the whole game takes way longer and people only do it if the game doesn't have a proper delete-save-data button. Of course some mobile devs ship without one for the first few weeks/months just to make rerolling harder and slower before patching it in later.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:24
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:In many games you can just hit a button to wipe your save data and start from scratch. Gacha players, like most gamblers, are also superstitious as hell and if that's become the standard "method" of """"ensuring"""" a different/better seed it doesn't matter what the game says, they're going to do their little mantra to get them good rolls/pulls/cards.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:31
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Crain posted:I guarantee you this is personally motivated at least in part to attack the BattleBit guys because of JR's former connection to EA/DICE. This is a really interesting point.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:36
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Crain posted:Gacha players, like most gamblers, are also superstitious as hell and if that's become the standard "method" of """"ensuring"""" a different/better seed it doesn't matter what the game says, they're going to do their little mantra to get them good rolls/pulls/cards. If you don’t whisper the SSR unit’s name while you pull they won’t show up ok
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Sep 13, 2023 17:37
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https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1701791508285063587
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Sep 13, 2023 17:46
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njsykora posted:Well Facebook didn't exactly get away with it and torched their platform as a media destination as a result. lol yeah we can't have history revisionism on this. Facebook literally went to poo poo overnight and has literally never recovered since. holy poo poo man lol
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Sep 13, 2023 17:49
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StrixNebulosa posted:If you don’t whisper the SSR unit’s name while you pull they won’t show up ok Who doesn't make little talismans to help guarantee that 5-star pull? A new one lovingly crafted for every single roll, of course. Plus making or buying the character's favorite food.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:52
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Sep 13, 2023 17:56
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I work in a different industry (politics!) and there's something similar happening. One particularly useful tool got bought up by venture capital tech bros and they've introduced a ton of onerous fees and changes. So far here's been multiple waves of layoffs. And their revenue sources have increased so it looks good on a spreadsheet. But there's also now a literal race to create an alternative because everyone knows we're hosed in the long term. And this is a company that has had a near monopoly so... great job guys!
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Sep 13, 2023 17:59
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VMware did something a bit like this for virtualization, but still technically left an extremely crippled free option available.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:01
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 lol
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Sep 13, 2023 18:15
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Terrible Opinions posted:VMware did something a bit like this for virtualization, but still technically left an extremely crippled free option available. Looking forward to the corpse of Unity getting bought by Broadcom.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:18
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Sep 13, 2023 18:43
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Hooboy if that's what Unity's lawyers are actually like, they are going to be buried in court. I really hope Unity's actually developers all jump ship with as much code as they can legally use and reestablish themselves as an independent studio.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:48
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i love the post strongly suggesting that whatever they come up with, it won't be a technical solution (at least not one Unity manages itself--maybe they strike some agreement with the marketplaces, but lol still): > There will not be an embedded "phone home" mechanism > Unity hasn't actually completely figured out how to count installs yet. Whatever the solution is, it will be conservative. > Yes, in this current form, it's possible for successful games with very high install counts and low enough per-install revenue to lose money when more people install their game. When this is raised internally, the answer is "we would fix this with the customer to not bankrupt them". It would be great to prevent this upstream in the actual policy. i guess realistically nobody comes out and says this, but this is basically the standard enterprise software sales model where the vendor charges whatever the gently caress they think they can wring out of you, but tries to justify it with some funny numbers so it doesn't feel completely arbitrary, or so you feel like you're getting a good discount when it's inevitably negotiated down below the ostensibly fair sticker price. it's impressive that they managed to simultaneously screw over the smaller shops that are big enough to pass the threshold, but far too small for even the most under-quota sales rep to so much as give the time of day ed: Randalor posted:Hooboy if that's what Unity's lawyers are actually like, they are going to be buried in court. I really hope Unity's actually developers all jump ship with as much code as they can legally use and reestablish themselves as an independent studio. contracts specifying their jurisdiction is pretty common in international or inter-state stuff. you generally can do that fine. there is a carve out for certain cases, but it probably doesn't apply to most games past the threshold, only purely hobby efforts: > If you habitually reside in a Member State of the European Union or the EEA, the United Kingdom or Switzerland, and are acting as a consumer (i.e., for a purpose which can be regarded as outside your trade craft or profession), the foregoing choice of governing law will not deprive you of the protection afforded to you by provisions that cannot be derogated from by agreement by virtue of the laws applicable where you habitually reside. In addition, you may bring proceedings in relation to any claim against Unity either in the courts of the country in which Unity is domiciled or in the courts for the place where you are domiciled, and proceedings may be brought against you only in the courts of the country in which you are domiciled. Qtotonibudinibudet fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 18:49
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Unity does not consent to the laws of other countries and thus is not bound by them.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:49
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No Wave posted:Unity does not consent to the laws of other countries and thus is not bound by them. The court in California that they would be sued in has gold fringe on their flag, making it a maritime court, and thus powerless to litigate against Unity’s big brain business moves.
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