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Leperflesh posted:ok whew this thread can move a lot while I'm away. Perhaps you should actually read Arivia's posts,
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Sep 13, 2023 19:24
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Arivia posted:Please show me where in my posts in this thread I was arguing how appropriate D&D was as a heist game. I am being downright gaslit at this point. Xihau brought it up Xiahou Dun posted:I ate a probe because you kept arguing D&D totally supports running investigative mystery games. A game that is going to cost north of a hundred dollars and has no support besides not actively stopping you and has an entire sub-sub-system (divination magic) that obviates mysteries. In a conversation about games with actual mechanics for running mysteries. Arivia posted:Us having a system discussion doesn’t cost me, you, or anyone else money. That’s the very easy line, imo. This is that conversation. It's opinions, supportable or not, that a majority or not a majority agree with: it's the Rutibex quandry, "what should mods do about opinions that are bad" and the answer is "almost always nothing, unless they're Rutibex levels of consistently and universally recognized as terrible." The point here isn't even that specific opinion, I'm reiterating it for clarity here: it's that if mods of TG started cracking down on having unpopular opinions, you'd be one of the first victims of that policy, just based on past experience. I don't think you want that. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 19:25
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Leperflesh posted:Xihau brought it up That doesn't seem to be about "in this thread I was arguing how appropriate D&D was as a heist game", like what? The only time she mentioned 5e's appropiateness would be Arivia posted:No*, but I looked back at that entry in your rap sheet and it was us and others discussing the movie. It wasn’t someone going “hey I want to go buy an rpg to run a heist in” and I recommended 5e (which I think would be lovely). Which reads to me that she doesn't have the bad opinion you are berating her for. Which is why I've been confused. Like, yell at her for being wrong, sure, but you seem to be yelling at her for something she doesn't agree with currently. Kchama fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 19:28
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Arivia posted:Please show me where in my posts in this thread I was arguing how appropriate D&D was as a heist game. I am being downright gaslit at this point. I know the current topic in the feedback thread about hostile posting isn't exactly indicative of the rest of TG, but this is a pretty good example of said hostile posting.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:29
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Leperflesh posted:Xihau brought it up Xiahou responded to me talking about my issue with Rutibex. I informed him as to why I felt the situation with Rutibex was different, explicitly trying to remain on-topic. I at no point responded to argue about the rules of D&D. So why do you think I was trying to restart that argument when I was specifically trying to clarify things with Xiahou and remain on topic instead of relitigating a past discussion? You’ve read an incredible amount into my post with literally no textual support. What would you prefer? That I don’t try and explain my viewpoint about the on topic feedback I’m giving when other posters ask for clarification? Should I have just reported Xiahou and not responded? That’s not fair to him or treating other posters well, imo. And it also doesn’t match with standards of discussion at all in my experience.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:32
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Kchama posted:That doesn't seem to be about "in this thread I was arguing how appropriate D&D was as a heist game", like what? Dwarf74 can speak for himself but I think in this thread the probations were "you can't fight here, this is the war room." And I was, also, as an aside, trying to address Arivia's claimed point, and using the prior disagreement alluded to here, as an example.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:33
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HKR posted:I know the current topic in the feedback thread about hostile posting isn't exactly indicative of the rest of TG, but this is a pretty good example of said hostile posting. When I am being probated and told by multiple mods that I was justly probated for things that I did not post, it’s pretty fair to call that gaslighting.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:34
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Leperflesh posted:Dwarf74 can speak for himself but I think in this thread the probations were "you can't fight here, this is the war room." And I was, also, as an aside, trying to address Arivia's claimed point, and using the prior disagreement alluded to here, as an example. Oh I don't disagree with the probations, she was fighting in the war room. I was confused with you trying to menace her or whatever for having a bad opinion that she appears to not have right now. Arivia posted:No*, but I looked back at that entry in your rap sheet and it was us and others discussing the movie. It wasn’t someone going “hey I want to go buy an rpg to run a heist in” and I recommended 5e (which I think would be lovely).
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Sep 13, 2023 19:36
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Leperflesh posted:Dwarf74 can speak for himself but I think in this thread the probations were "you can't fight here, this is the war room." And I was, also, as an aside, trying to address Arivia's claimed point, and using the prior disagreement alluded to here, as an example. No. You have just specifically said that “But the feedback thread is not the place to debate whether or not D&D is a good system for heists, and that's the actual argument that you and xiahou seemed to want to have, and dwarf74 was right to put a stop on that.” So you posting as the forum moderator have defended dwarf74’s probations on those terms. You have explicitly said that I was probed for continuing that argument. You can’t dismiss that now because you can’t find proof for it. This is poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:36
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HKR posted:I know the current topic in the feedback thread about hostile posting isn't exactly indicative of the rest of TG, but this is a pretty good example of said hostile posting.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:39
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Arivia posted:No. You have just specifically said that “But the feedback thread is not the place to debate whether or not D&D is a good system for heists, and that's the actual argument that you and xiahou seemed to want to have, and dwarf74 was right to put a stop on that.” sebmojo posted:It is absolutely a fact that the most insane inbox-filling freakouts all come from sixers
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Sep 13, 2023 19:41
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Arivia posted:No. You have just specifically said that “But the feedback thread is not the place to debate whether or not D&D is a good system for heists, and that's the actual argument that you and xiahou seemed to want to have, and dwarf74 was right to put a stop on that.” It doesn't really matter much what the fight was about, but that's what I think the brewing fight was about. Originally, and being imported here. I brought up what the fight was about to use it as an example of mods - well, me, this is my take - not wanting to moderate people for having opinions. Kchama posted:I was confused with you trying to menace her or whatever for having a bad opinion that she appears to not have right now. Arivia's declaration that she didn't recommend 5e, in that previous conversation I have not reviewed today, can stand if she likes, it doesn't matter. I'm sure she can remember many other occasions in which her opinion was unpopular in a thread.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:42
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Leperflesh posted:It doesn't really matter much what the fight was about, but that's what I think the brewing fight was about. Originally, and being imported here. I brought up what the fight was about to use it as an example of mods - well, me, this is my take - not wanting to moderate for having opinions. So you’re now justifying it on the basis you believe there was a fight. Are you just ignoring where I pointed out to you now how I was remaining on topic and responding in good faith to Xiahou’s question? Again, what do you want me to do if staying on topic and replying to other posters politely is now considered probation-worthy?
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Sep 13, 2023 19:46
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Arivia posted:When I am being probated and told by multiple mods that I was justly probated for things that I did not post, it’s pretty fair to call that gaslighting. If youre seriously going to coopt survivor terms to win stupid arguments in the tabletop forum, then Im going to match suit and tell you to cut the DARVO poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:47
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I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't really know these users. However, I have long been of the opinion that the site-wide response to anyone complaining about a sixer for any reason should always be: it's a sixer lmao
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Sep 13, 2023 19:55
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Arivia posted:So you’re now justifying it on the basis you believe there was a fight. Are you just ignoring where I pointed out to you now how I was remaining on topic and responding in good faith to Xiahou’s question? Again, what do you want me to do if staying on topic and replying to other posters politely is now considered probation-worthy? I am walking on eggshells in responding to you, as always, because you'll dissect every word and weaponize it if you possibly can. And I also don't want to come off as condescending, even though I know you'll probably read it that way regardless: What I want you to do is, keep trying to be calm and respond in good faith, but take to heart feedback - in the form of posts or sixers or whatever - when an IK or other posters or mods are telling you that you are coming off as abrasive or seem to be picking fights. I genuinely think you're doing this, keep trying to do it more, and the long-term trend still seems to me to be positive. But also you have made enemies over the years and many of them are not ready to be charitable towards you and that's just the burden of reputation you have to live with. It sucks to feel like you're doing your best and it's not good enough for some people, but everyone has long memories around here. So when you're engaging with someone you've had many conflicts with in the past, IKs and mods are going to be quicker to the buttons than they might be for someone else, and that's partly due to that past in addition to a response to the actual words you're posting right now. So I believe you, right now, that you didn't think you were going offtopic or ramping up into a fight. But that's what it looked like to the IK, and to me, and to people reporting your posts.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:56
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Okay. So can I get an apology for this bullshit you’ve put me through at least? I’m willing to leave it there if you/dwarf74 are willing to admit you misread me.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:58
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Leperflesh posted:I am walking on eggshells in responding to you, as always Do you not see the problem here? Come the gently caress on dude
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Sep 13, 2023 20:03
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Leperflesh posted:I am walking on eggshells in responding to you, as always, because you'll dissect every word and weaponize it if you possibly can. Radical opinion, but maybe someone who does this and actively makes this place worse by being incredibly toxic and getting into frequent slapfights with people should just, not be allowed to stick around? People have been complaining about Arivia's behaviour for a decade at this point. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 20:05
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Did we just do this? Have this exact conversation?
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Sep 13, 2023 20:06
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Arivia posted:Okay. So can I get an apology for this bullshit you’ve put me through at least? I’m willing to leave it there if you/dwarf74 are willing to admit you misread me. gently caress off Arivia
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Sep 13, 2023 20:09
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Leperflesh posted:I am walking on eggshells in responding to you This is what the all the recent feedback in the thread is asking you not to do. This is exactly the kind of problematic, argumentative posting that has driven people away from TG and yet despite everyone asking for more crackdown on it and all the mods and IKs saying 'yes that sounds good we'll work on that' you're not doing it. Yes, you and dwarf might have gotten the specifics of whatever Arivia was spinning up to pointlessly argue and derail a thread about wrong, but you were both right in saying that was what she was doing. She's calling you out on pointless minutia while refusing to acknowledge that she has a history and pattern of doing this and making threads worse.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:09
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Arivia posted:Okay. So can I get an apology for this bullshit you’ve put me through at least? I’m willing to leave it there if you/dwarf74 are willing to admit you misread me. You're kind of extremely pushing it. While he should probably know what he's talking about before he attacks you for an argument, you're been pretty overly hostile and aggro about the whole thing. I kind of feel that you got pretty confident because you felt like I'm on your side. I'm not. I felt Leperflesh was being unjust by not getting his ps and qs squared away, but that doesn't keep you from being a huge jerk about it or in general. Kchama fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 20:10
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This is asinine just ban Arivia already.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:10
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Leperflesh posted:I am walking on eggshells in responding to you, as always, because you'll dissect every word and weaponize it if you possibly can. Leperflesh please use your buttons on this user and users that post like them in TG thank you
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Sep 13, 2023 20:10
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Mr. Locke posted:Normally I'd agree with you, but when a dude who's already the Guy Nobody Wants At Their Table posts a Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 20:11
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Arivia posted:Okay. So can I get an apology for this bullshit you’ve put me through at least? I’m willing to leave it there if you/dwarf74 are willing to admit you misread me. You have an incredible talent for taking the barest hint of charity or conciliatory tone and openly interpreting it as an admission of guilt for some profound wrong done to you. Everyone, absolutely everyone here, loving hates it, and as literally the most tolerant mod on SA for your poo poo, your habit of vigorously biting the hand offered to you is self-destructive as hell. No, I'm not apologizing, because we weren't wrong and you're not being put through bullshit. This is a lifeline, Arivia: take a sixer and move on.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:15
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Fine, I’ll move on out of the forum then. If I’m being gaslit and probed for things I didn’t post at all and nothing I can do in good faith is good enough for you, then there’s nothing I can do to remain a poster in good standing. Thanks for the memories, y’all. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 13, 2023 20:21
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Arivia posted:Fine, I’ll move on out of the forum then. If I’m being gaslit and probed for things I didn’t post at all and nothing I can do in good faith is good enough for you, then there’s nothing I can do to remain a poster in good standing. Go gently caress yourself and dont come back.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:22
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Leperflesh posted:as literally the most tolerant mod on SA for your poo poo, your habit of vigorously biting the hand offered to you is self-destructive as hell. im coming out of tg lurk mode to ask why on earth you're tolerant of this nonsense, i genuinely don't get it.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:24
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Arivia posted:Okay. So can I get an apology for this bullshit you’ve put me through at least? I’m willing to leave it there if you/dwarf74 are willing to admit you misread me. Coming out of TG lurk mode to say TheKingofSprings posted:gently caress off Arivia
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Sep 13, 2023 20:27
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Obviously they did not misread you at all, as you came right back in hot as hell to fight about a sixer.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:28
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Arivia posted:Fine, I’ll move on out of the forum then. This would probably be the first good thing you've done for the forums.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:28
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I'm glad I got distracted before posting that I thought Arivia had been more chill lately. Good grief.Leperflesh posted:You have an incredible talent for taking the barest hint of charity or conciliatory tone and openly interpreting it as an admission of guilt for some profound wrong done to you. Everyone, absolutely everyone here, loving hates it, and as literally the most tolerant mod on SA for your poo poo, your habit of vigorously biting the hand offered to you is self-destructive as hell. We haven't been seeing eye to eye all that much in this thread but this is right on the money.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:28
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Arivia posted:Fine, I’ll move on out of the forum then. If I’m being gaslit and probed for things I didn’t post at all and nothing I can do in good faith is good enough for you, then there’s nothing I can do to remain a poster in good standing. You were probed for arguing getting into an argument after basically being told not to get into an argument. You weren't probed for the stuff Leperflesh said. Really, when Leperflesh says "take the probe and move on", he is correct. You should.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:31
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:im coming out of tg lurk mode to ask why on earth you're tolerant of this nonsense, i genuinely don't get it. Because as I just said, I believe I was seeing a long-term positive trend. My first reflex when talking to people who have a posting problem is to try to work towards them solving their problems and if I see results I think that's the best outcome. I am a lot more patient than I guess most people. Not just mods or folks on SA, but in real life, too. I am trying to take to heart the stated preference of a large majority of TG posters to be less patient, though, I really am, and today is I hope evidence of that.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:32
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Leperflesh posted:Because as I just said, I believe I was seeing a long-term positive trend. My first reflex when talking to people who have a posting problem is to try to work towards them solving their problems and if I see results I think that's the best outcome. This is the right instinct imo. I think you have been overvaluing progress with what you see as long term project posters vs. the overall health of the community. While you might have data that says someone is improving because you can see that their probations are getting further apart, you have to remember that most people are responding emotionally to the way that those posters make threads feel.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:36
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Arivia posted:Okay. So can I get an apology for this bullshit you’ve put me through at least? I’m willing to leave it there if you/dwarf74 are willing to admit you misread me. Even if I have read you wrong, I stand by the judgment call I made with what I was seeing at the time.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:53
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Tarnop posted:This is the right instinct imo. I think you have been overvaluing progress with what you see as long term project posters vs. the overall health of the community. While you might have data that says someone is improving because you can see that their probations are getting further apart, you have to remember that most people are responding emotionally to the way that those posters make threads feel. yeah, this is a thing I see in GBS a lot (don't read gbs) where mods will defend godawful posters for years at a time because they're "projects" at the expense of everyone who has to read it. it's a good thing to be conscious and aware of, glad to see it acknowledged
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Sep 13, 2023 20:54
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Leperflesh posted:Because as I just said, I believe I was seeing a long-term positive trend. My first reflex when talking to people who have a posting problem is to try to work towards them solving their problems and if I see results I think that's the best outcome. Honest advice: the second you feel like youre walking on eggshells when talking about something mundane, and you know that it's mundane, you need to immediately evaluate if the person youre talking to is emotionally manipulative. Arivia is blatantly so; she was laser-focused on extracting contrition from you and dwarf74, two people who actually have the power to boot people from this forum, while explicitly not reacting to the tactically unimportant posters who were calling out her shitheaded behavior. She knew exactly what she was doing this entire time.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:55
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